115 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Ryzaki wrote...


I'm sorry AdmiralCheez I usually agree with you but saying Shepard's always cheating on the VS if he/she moves on is straight up bullsh*t. Now some Sheps maybe cheating. Mine certainly isn't. 

You kind of have to be in a relationship to be cheating. Whatever relationship the VS had with my Shepard ended when he/she died. (Horizon was just the final nail in the coffin).

Now they're welcome to get back together. But my Shep's certainly not cheating on them. And as far as I'm concerned my Sheps have no desire to get back with them. 

Half a year and the only apology I get is some half assed letter? They can kick rocks. And I want the *option* to be able to tell them as much. 

You can have that option.  All I'm saying is that I think it's petty to take it.  I'm not a fan of being an ass to people who don't deserve it.

[Quole]

Modifié par Quole, 10 septembre 2011 - 01:52 .

[Icinix]

Yeah - the whole VS thing was handled pretty terribly in ME2.

There should have been greater options for dialogue and a chance to get some finality on the issue later in the game.

Out of all the things for ME3 - how this is going to be handled concerns me the most.

Because - despite a certain marketing man proclaiming "Who Cares?" - this is something very important to my sheps story.

[Omega4RelayResident]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

@AdmiralCheez

IF the e-mail prompted Shep to have a private video conversation with the VS LI I would accept it and from there things might have gotten better. A simple e-mail doesnt cut it for me.

Well, blame TIM for not letting you reply to your emails.

I usually agree with you Admiral Cheez.... but what you are saying is wrong.... you are basically telling me I cant have the choice to play my canon Shep the way I want to.... I do not wish the same for you though.

Oh, you can play however you want.  I never said you can't.  Just saying that the VS obviously still cares about Shepard, and saying "it wasn't cheating" and "it's Kaidan/Ashley's fault for breaking my heart" is childish.

Its not childish... not for me... those words can hurt and my Shep was hurt. My Shep thought for once someone knew him to the core and to my Shep that was proven to be wrong. To me the events on Horizon were a breakup. The fact that VS LI calls you a traitor in so many words hurts more because it implys that they dont trust my Shep or their intentions any more.

It is not cheating if my Shep understands that to be the breakup. I just want to play the way I want to. I do however agree that BioWare handled it poorly. Dont blame Shep or our choices for the creators messing things up. If thats how they want to play it... then thats how I will play it out.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 10 septembre 2011 - 01:59 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Its not childish... not for me... those words can hurt and my Shep was hurt. My Shep thought for once someone knew him to the core and to my Shep that was proven to be wrong. To me the events on Horizon were a breakup. The fact that VS LI calls you a traitor in so many words hurts more because it implys that they dont trust my Shep or their intentions any more.

It is not cheating if my Shep understands that to be the breakup. I just want to play the way I want to.

See, this is called an opinion.  I have one, too.  My opinion disagrees with yours, but it doesn't mean you're wrong, and I'd definitely never advocate stripping you of choice in roleplaying.

It's just a choice I would never take.

PS Yeah BW kind of goofed a little bit on Horizon, didn't they?  Mostly by merging Kaishley into one character, IMHO.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 10 septembre 2011 - 02:01 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Its not childish... not for me... those words can hurt and my Shep was hurt. My Shep thought for once someone knew him to the core and to my Shep that was proven to be wrong. To me the events on Horizon were a breakup. The fact that VS LI calls you a traitor in so many words hurts more because it implys that they dont trust my Shep or their intentions any more.

It is not cheating if my Shep understands that to be the breakup. I just want to play the way I want to.

See, this is called an opinion.  I have one, too.  My opinion disagrees with yours, but it doesn't mean you're wrong, and I'd definitely never advocate stripping you of choice in roleplaying.

It's just a choice I would never take.

PS Yeah BW kind of goofed a little bit on Horizon, didn't they?  Mostly by merging Kaishley into one character, IMHO.

Yeah you are 100% right. Opinions are a b**** arent they?  Then again Samara makes a good point about the fact that if there are 3 humans in a room there will be 6 opinions. Sigh.

[Mr.House]

You mean you want VS mancers to be screwed even further?

[Complistic]

This thread is new and exciting.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Mr.House wrote...

You mean you want VS mancers to be screwed even further?

Nope... just want the people that were offended by the VS LI to have the choice to defend their actions... aggresively if necessary.

I dont want you guys to get screwed. One of my profiles is faithfull to Kaidan.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 10 septembre 2011 - 02:36 .

[Quole]

Mr.House wrote...

You mean you want VS mancers to be screwed even further?

You didnt actually read the OP did you?

[Sepewrath]

Icinix wrote...

Yeah - the whole VS thing was handled pretty terribly in ME2.

There should have been greater options for dialogue and a chance to get some finality on the issue later in the game.

Out of all the things for ME3 - how this is going to be handled concerns me the most.

Because - despite a certain marketing man proclaiming "Who Cares?" - this is something very important to my sheps story.

It wasn't handled terribly, just because it didn't go the way you would dream it up, doesn't mean it has poor execution. Also people greatly underestimate Shepard's concept of time. Shepard was dead, you don't have feelings when your dead, your longing for someone or anything like that. For Shepard it was like they went to sleep and woke up five minutes later, but the world had skipped ahead 2yrs.

The concept of time is something that is consistent for people, you lose time when you sleep, but when you wake up, the place is generally the way you left it. Its a hard concept to wrap your head around, that the world has done a 180 on you in seemingly a few hours time. To Shep on Horizon, its "I saw you two days ago" so while you can accept its been two yrs, a persons mind would still be set 2yrs in the past, so they wouldn't expect the VS to behave any differently from when they saw them "2 days ago" It would be disarming for someone to behave outside of what you expect, keep in mind, this is straight out of leftfield for Shepard.

It would have been odd for Shepard to puff out their chest and say "Who do you think you are, I"m Commander MotherF'n Shepard!" For them it was 2yrs ago and right now, everything in between is a total blank and that includes knowledge and emotion. It would have made no sense for Shepard to be able to smoothly work their way through that situation.

[Ryzaki]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
You can have that option.  All I'm saying is that I think it's petty to take it.  I'm not a fan of being an ass to people who don't deserve it.

It was petty for the VS to focus on Cerberus as well. I like stooping to others level. 

And how is leaving them for someone else petty?  People grow out of relationships. Not to mention ME3 does not take a few days to end. By the time Miranda/Jack/whoever is sleeping with Shep. Shep's been awake for at least a few months. A few months and all they cared to send Shepard was a lousy email that was a bit of a "well see what happens." exactly what relationship is there? 

If you consider it childish to move on after someone calls you a traitor and tells you in no small amount of words that you're an idiot before walking off in a huff well...you and I have very different definitionsof childish. Saying someone cheated on you because they moved on? Yeah that's childishto me. And I'll think Kaidan/Ash is childish if they do such a thing (so by ra I hope they don't.) To me there is no relationship without trust. If I can't trust you I can't be with you. My Sheps are the same way. Since the VS didn't trust them they had no business together. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 septembre 2011 - 02:54 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

If you romanced the VS and then had another romance in ME2 I hardly see that as cheating. The VS called our character a traitor and that they couldn't trust him... right there if someone thinks you're a traitor and doesn't trust you than in most social circles you've broken up. A half baked E-mail doesn't take that back.

[frostajulie]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Commander Shepard is not a piece of meat. Male and female Sheps have feelings too. What the VS Ashley / Kaidan said on Horizon as a ME1 LI is unfogivable. In the real military the word "traitor" is not thrown around lightly. Them are some serious fighting words. Consequences are common for false implications.

Then the VS LI continues on to basically break up with Shep. I understand people grieve and it is an extensive process... I also understand that old wounds open up during this moment on Horizon. However the thing people forget is that Shep was the one that died. The VS LI shows no concern for Sheps feelings. The VS LI doesnt even try to watch what they say if Shep had been traumatized by the death.

As a huge supporter of Commander Shepard both male and female I would like to make BW aware that in this situation we should have a right to defend Shep's feeling. This has to actually spark some heated dialogue. For once let there be consequences for someone else.

Commander Shepard's last thoughts before he/she died could have been with VS LI. The first thing that happens in the reunion is he/she gets broken up with and called a traitor.

A lot of people want to see Commander Shepard take the "Everything Will Be Okay" gloves off and defend their new LI choice. We would like to see Shep get emotional, angry, defensive, and explain that he/she was the one that died and needed the VS LI with them after Horizon. That the only thing they were looking forward to was to get back together... and Shep gets his/her heart broken by a selfish person that did not realize Shep died to save them by ordering them off the Normandy during the initial Collector attack on the Normandy SR1.

Shep has feelings too and he/she has a right to defend them and their new LI from ME2.

yes oh yes please!!!

[Omega4RelayResident]

Ryzaki wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
You can have that option.  All I'm saying is that I think it's petty to take it.  I'm not a fan of being an ass to people who don't deserve it.

It was petty for the VS to focus on Cerberus as well. I like stooping to others level. 

And how is leaving them for someone else petty?  People grow out of relationships. Not to mention ME3 does not take a few days to end. By the time Miranda/Jack/whoever is sleeping with Shep. Shep's been awake for at least a few months. 

Thank you .

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

If you romanced the VS and then had another romance in ME2 I hardly see that as cheating. The VS called our character a traitor and that they couldn't trust him... right there if someone thinks you're a traitor and doesn't trust you than in most social circles you've broken up. A half baked E-mail doesn't take that back.

Thank you too .

And thank you frostajulie too .

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 10 septembre 2011 - 02:35 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Ryzaki wrote...

It was petty for the VS to focus on Cerberus as well. I like stooping to others level.

I'm not a fan of stooping.  It's like, even more petty.  Also I used to do that in high school and I got into serious trouble.

And how is leaving them for someone else petty? People grow out of relationships. Not to mention ME3 does not take a few days to end. By the time Miranda/Jack/whoever is sleeping with Shep. Shep's been awake for at least a few months. A few months and all they cared to send Shepard was a lousy email that was a bit of a "well see what happens." exactly what relationship is there?

Let's look at the circumstances.  Kaishley is doing highly-classified, very important work for the Alliance.  Shep's doing errands for Cerberus.  It's hard to keep in contact when you're both off the grid, saving the galaxy and all that.

Yes, drifting apart emotionally is expected, but you can't blame them for not racing across the Terminus Systems to be by your side.  Like I said, saving the galaxy and all that.

If you consider it childish to move on after someone calls you a traitor and tells you in no small amount of words that you're an idiot before walking off in a huff well...you and I have very different definitionsof childish. Saying someone cheated on you because they moved on? Yeah that's childishto me. And I'll think Kaidan/Ash is childish if they do such a thing (so by ra I hope they don't.)

It's childish to not be able to see things from their point of view, yes.  It's childish not to recognize when someone is lashing out because they're hurt, and it's childish to not forgive them for being human. (Well hello there, lecture.)

I don't expect Kaishley to jump on you and start screaming about how you cheated on them.  It's silly and out of character.  However, I fully expect them to feel hurt that, when they were willing to turn things around and try again because they still cared, you weren't.  Yeah, in the end, they'll probably understand why you moved on, but still, it'll hurt.

(See, this is why all my playthroughs are so f*cking paragon--I DONT WANT 2 HURT UR FEEEELINGS!!1!1)

[Ryzaki]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
I'm not a fan of stooping.  It's like, even more petty.  Also I used to do that in high school and I got into serious trouble.

So according to you leaving someone after drifting apart is tantamount to being petty in high school? Really? I fully admit my "f*** off" dream to tell the VS is extremely petty and childish. (but so is said Shepard. He did constantly say the council could kiss his ass.)

My paragon Shepard getting with Miranda in ME2 after Ash chews him out says he betrayed her, the alliance and everything he stood for, sends him some email saying she was sorry (that he didn't really open until after he feel in love with Miranda and far too little to late by then), he feels no one from the alliance save Joker and Chakwas believe him, he's constantly frustrated due to TIM's BS and the Council's "Ah yes 'Reapers'." nonsense and he decides to get with the woman who saved his life, who's highly intelligent and attractive, whom he fell in love with as she opened up to him, has gone through plenty of nerve racking **** together and who he feels he can trust is childish? 

Let's look at the circumstances.  Kaishley is doing highly-classified, very important work for the Alliance.  Shep's doing errands for Cerberus.  It's hard to keep in contact when you're both off the grid, saving the galaxy and all that.

Yes, drifting apart emotionally is expected, but you can't blame them for not racing across the Terminus Systems to be by your side.  Like I said, saving the galaxy and all that. 

Oh I don't blame them for not running to Shep's side. I'm not mad they had their own things to do. For one I'm not mad at Liara or Wrex (or even Tali when she brushed Shep off the first time). They gave reasoning and they didn't bite Shep's head off. 

And really my Shep wouldn't have minded being called anything other than traitor. That left an ugly scar. It to him was one of those things that once you say the relationship is pretty much done. You don't say he's traitor based off some halfassed rumors and don't give him the chance to explain. K/A can't take that back to him. It's been said. Things said in anger are in the person's mind. Even if it's in the very back. And in theback of their minds they think he's stupid enough to join a terrorist organziation just because someone says Reaper. Enough to turn his back on something he shed blood and tears for without tangible proof. Enough to believe rumors that they can see disproven in front of their eyes over him. 

It's childish to not be able to see things from their point of view, yes.  It's childish not to recognize when someone is lashing out because they're hurt, and it's childish to not forgive them for being human. (Well hello there, lecture.)

I don't expect Kaishley to jump on you and start screaming about how you cheated on them.  It's silly and out of character.  However, I fully expect them to feel hurt that, when they were willing to turn things around and try again because they still cared, you weren't.  Yeah, in the end, they'll probably understand why you moved on, but still, it'll hurt.

(See, this is why all my playthroughs are so f*cking paragon--I DONT WANT 2 HURT UR FEEEELINGS!!1!1)

Forgiving someone=! restarting a relationship with them or stopping yourself from moving on. "I forgive you for what you said on Horizon." =/= "I want to get back together." Two different subjects. Someone can forgive someone and still not want to restart the relationship. As far as my forgiving Sheps are concerned they forgive Ash/Kaidan they're willing to be friens but they're lovers with someone else. They wish K/A the best but they're gonna keep their relationship (or their singleness if they left K/A and didn't go to someone else). 

There's nothing childish about romancing a ME2 LI. Not unless Shep's doing it for the sole purpose of hurting the ME1 LI which...my Sheps didn't. 

And while it did hurt (most of the time it does hurt when someone moves on) that doesn't mean Shepard cheated on them or that he/she is a horrible, immature, petty person. Ala Liara she's hurt but she acknowledges that hey Shep was dead and she was...well her. They both had other more important things in her life. Thus the whole "let's get back together." deal. I would hope it would be something similar with the VS. 

My characters tend to be paragon as well. That doesn't mean however they're gonna put their lives on hold. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:37 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

Nelson Mandela's wife divorced him WHILE he was in prison... Do not tell me that VS LI is a saint. Everyone is capable of doing dumb and hurtfull things.

On my other playthroughs I will stay faithfull to them but on my canon Shep... I want to unload all I have on them for pulling that stunt. They should know me better... and if they cared they would have asked a lot more questions.

Are you really that forgiving AdmiralCheez?

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:35 .

[old white gay guy]

lasogopdahsdlkhfogihaehkrsghtjIOAJKSFDHVBPOIA;WSDFLISBFLGHDKN;LFKHA;LSDFUJKDG;Hilhaj;fhpoqjaLHWAEJHPJH YOU CANNOT QUOTE ****ING NELSON MANDELA IN A ****ING VIDEO GAME, YOU W H ORE

Modifié par old white gay guy, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:37 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Ryzaki wrote...

So according to you leaving someone after drifting apart is tantamount to being petty in high school?

Uh, no.  But this whole "they were a jerk to me so I want to sleep with someone else and then yell at them" kind of is.

Oh I don't blame them for not running to Shep's side. I'm not mad they had their own things to do. For one I'm not mad at Liara or Wrex (or even Tali when she brushed Shep off the first time). They gave reasoning and they didn't bite Shep's head off.

To be honest, I think Liara had the dumbest reason out of all of them (going after shadow broker brb).  And, frankly, props to the VS for being the only ones to go , "Whoa, wait, WTF dude?"

Forgiving someone=! restarting a relationship with them or stopping yourself from moving on.

How long was Shepard conscious before Horizon, again?  Like, a week?

There's nothing childish about romancing a ME2 LI. Not unless Shep's doing it for the sole purpose of hurting the ME1 LI which...my Sheps didn't.

And there's not.  Hell, people fall in love all the time.

And while it did hurt (most of the time it does hurt when someone moves on) that doesn't mean Shepard cheated on them or that he/she is a horrible, immature, petty person.

Of course not.  But some of the reasons some people gave...  Yeeaaahhh.  It's similar to the whole "WHY AM I BEING PUT ON TRIAL FOR WAR CRIMES DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!"

People move on.

They do.  But after two years and some hard-to-process information, the VS was willing to try again, while you drop it after one fight and a week of being conscious?

My characters tend to be paragon as well. That doesn't mean however they're gonna put their lives on hold.

You had one fight.

Jesus, if I got dumped every time I got over-emotional and stormed out of the room amidst a flurry of insults...

[Omega4RelayResident]

old white gay guy wrote...

lasogopdahsdlkhfogihaehkrsghtjIOAJKSFDHVBPOIA;WSDFLISBFLGHDKN;LFKHA;LSDFUJKDG;Hilhaj;fhpoqjaLHWAEJHPJH YOU CANNOT QUOTE NELSON ****ING NELSON MANDELA IN A ****ING VIDEO GAME W H ORE

WTF is the matter with you? Is this guy serious? ITS CALLED AN ANALOGY..... GTFO

[MidnightSG]

Not all of Mass Effect players write/read fan fics and draw
pictures of their love interest topless on Deviantart.  A large percent simply play the game
once, maybe twice and that is what they leave with.



If you were to take away all, ALL of the fan-made scenarios and
were only presented the black and white romance story Bioware presented to the
player, you would see just why so many people lost all interest for the VS.

Modifié par MidnightSG, 10 septembre 2011 - 03:38 .

[ladyvader]

I want to make this comment.

Even spacer Shep didn't even bother to contact his/her mom. If Shep can't contact mom, does anyone really thing Shep would contact the VS?

[Dhiro]

I, Dhiro, don't feel like the VS is exactly wrong. I can see their sides. Some of my Sheps can't. So I can't say I have any desire to argue if what someone thinks about this is right or wrong.

But in my opinion as Dhiro, I would like if we could just forget this whole thing and go save the galaxy.

[Omega4RelayResident]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You had one fight.

Jesus, if I got dumped every time I got over-emotional and stormed out of the room amidst a flurry of insults...

Ahh see thats not what I do... I dont storm out... and I sure as hell dont tolerate storming out... I am too old to deal with storming out.

I sit down and talk things through... ME2 was not that dang time sensative if you managed to do everyone else's Loyalty Missions.... there was plenty of time to deal with the issue.

One other thing...

Maybe Anderson and VS LI dont trust you any more for working with Cerberus... I know I used Tali as an example but I got one better...

Admiral Hackett trusts Shep implicitly... if he does so should Anderson and VS LI... or shall we go through Hackett's trust in Shep by drawing out this debate further and quoting Arrival DLC line for line...

Hackett was Shep's commanding officer prior to ME1... any doubts about Shep form Anderson or VS LI should have been brought to Hackett

Ohhhhhh! And the crowd goes wild!.... J/K but you have to admit that is a good point.