115 réponses à ce sujet

[Omega4RelayResident]

ladyvader wrote...

I want to make this comment.

Even spacer Shep didn't even bother to contact his/her mom. If Shep can't contact mom, does anyone really thing Shep would contact the VS?

I wish I could contact Shep's Mom

[Ryzaki]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Uh, no.  But this whole "they were a jerk to me so I want to sleep with someone else and then yell at them" kind of is.

Then kindly don't put words in others mouth. Everyone who decided to romance a ME2 LI after aME1 one doesn't do it for the aformentioned reasons. So do try not to lump everyone together.

To be honest, I think Liara had the dumbest reason out of all of them (going after shadow broker brb).  And, frankly, props to the VS for being the only ones to go , "Whoa, wait, WTF dude?"

*shrugs* I thought the VS had the flimiest reasoning for storming off. The whole point of them being there in thef first place was to gather intel. They decided to huff and throw away a valuable source. 

How long was Shepard conscious before Horizon, again?  Like, a week?

More likely a month. I highly doubt Shep runs around recruiting Grunt, Garrus, Jack, Mordin (and possibly Zaeed and Kasumi and doing their missions) in a mere week. No to mention those rumors needed time to circulate. 

And there's not.  Hell, people fall in love all the time.

Which was my whole point. 

Of course not.  But some of the reasons some people gave...  Yeeaaahhh.  It's similar to the whole "WHY AM I BEING PUT ON TRIAL FOR WAR CRIMES DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!"

Some people ! everyone. 

At least clarify who you're talking about. 

That said there are those who do it on the VS as well which is equally as headdesk inducing. 

They do.  But after two years and some hard-to-process information, the VS was willing to try again, while you drop it after one fight and a week of being conscious?

A. Shep most likely was conscious for more than a week. 
B. Some people don't feel an apology and a "next time we see each oher...we'll see." is sufficent for a actual relationship
C. Could be for more reasons than just the fight. Lack of trust as I said. And yes if I think my partner doesn't trust me I end it. I'm weird like that. I have no patience to deal with someone who doesn't trust that I'm not doing something stupid when I go off on my own. Or at the least try to watch my back even if they think I'm utterly insane. The VS did neither. They didn't trust Shepard and they didn't try to get Shepard some help.
D. Kind of hard to give a hoot about someone who doesn't offer any support other than one email when Shep's stressed the heck out compared to others who have been at his/her side through everything.
E. Shepard's been dead longer than he's been in a relationship with the VS. Not to mention how deepily Shep felt about the VS is up to the player. 

You had one fight.

Jesus, if I got dumped every time I got over-emotional and stormed out of the room amidst a flurry of insults...

*sighs* And you don't get it. It's not the fight it's what the fight was about. And yes people are different some will end it after a fight over a certain thing. Especially if they feel that the foundation of the relationship in the first place was shakey. (How long did Shep know the VS?  A few months at best?) 

Now if you want to think you're Shep's cheating go ahead. Mine isn't. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 septembre 2011 - 04:09 .

[Dhiro]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You had one fight.

Jesus, if I got dumped every time I got over-emotional and stormed out of the room amidst a flurry of insults...

Ahh see thats not what I do... I dont storm out... and I sure as hell dont tolerate storming out... I am too old to deal with storming out.

I sit down and talk things through... ME2 was not that dang time sensative if you managed to do everyone else's Loyalty Missions.... there was plenty of time to deal with the issue.

One other thing...

Maybe Anderson and VS LI dont trust you any more for working with Cerberus... I know I used Tali as an example but I got one better...

Admiral Hackett trusts Shep implicitly... if he does so should Anderson and VS LI... or shall we go through Hackett's trust in Shep by drawing out this debate further and quoting Arrival DLC line for line...

Hackett was Shep's commanding officer prior to ME1... any doubts about Shep form Anderson or VS LI should have been brought to Hackett

Ohhhhhh! And the crowd goes wild!.... J/K but you have to admit that is a good point.

Hackett is Hackett. Anderson is Anderson. Dhiro is Dhiro. Just because Hackett believed in Shepard that doesn't mean the VS or Anderson are honor-bound to do so, too.

[AdmiralCheez]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Nelson Mandela's wife divorced him WHILE he was in prison... Do not tell me that VS LI is a saint. Everyone is capable of doing dumb and hurtfull things.

They are.  So it shouldn't surprise you when someone does, even when you love them.

On my other playthroughs I will stay faithfull to them but on my canon Shep... I want to unload all I have on them for pulling that stunt. They should know me better... and if they cared they would have asked a lot more questions.

"Everyone is capable of doing dumb and hurtful things."  The VS did something dumb and hurtful.  That shouldn't be grounds for terminating a relationship, especially if it's a one-time thing and under such crazy circumstances (like coming back from the dead and working with terrorists).  Falling for someone else, maybe.  Growing too far apart, definitely.  But one case of a loved one being hit with the stupid stick?

Not saying you shouldn't feel hurt about it, since it was a dick move, but yelling at people just because you're angry doesn't really solve any problems.

(Haha, real world advice for a videogame.  Cheez, u funneh.)

Are you really that forgiving AdmiralCheez?

If the people who love me in real life can forgive me for all the sh*t I've pulled, then I can forgive a video game character for being a royal douchebag.

Seriously, I'm surprised I still have the friends I do.

Because, like, holy cow.  I was a b*tch.

[Drone223]

I really don't blame the VS for their reaction despite the writing they saw their friend/lover die and after two years of "trying" moving on, the person they had morned comes out of nowhere and works for Cerberus they are not only feeling happy that their friend/lover is back but also angry and confused that they saw them die and they are working for Cerberus that is a lot to cope with, also people fight in relationships all the time because people will always have disagreements between each other 

[Omega4RelayResident]

Dhiro wrote...

Hackett is Hackett. Anderson is Anderson. Dhiro is Dhiro. Just because Hackett believed in Shepard that doesn't mean the VS or Anderson are honor-bound to do so, too.

Actually in the LotSB DLC you can look up intel on Admiral Hackett. He orders of of his subordinates to not follow through on an investigative mission on Shep.

Sooooo... Hackett can not make anyone like Shep.... but yeah he can order people to leave Shep alone.... or trust Shep.... at least professionally.

Trusting Shep personally is where you are absolutelly 100% correct.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 10 septembre 2011 - 04:09 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Nelson Mandela's wife divorced him WHILE he was in prison... Do not tell me that VS LI is a saint. Everyone is capable of doing dumb and hurtfull things.

They are.  So it shouldn't surprise you when someone does, even when you love them.

On my other playthroughs I will stay faithfull to them but on my canon Shep... I want to unload all I have on them for pulling that stunt. They should know me better... and if they cared they would have asked a lot more questions.

"Everyone is capable of doing dumb and hurtful things."  The VS did something dumb and hurtful.  That shouldn't be grounds for terminating a relationship, especially if it's a one-time thing and under such crazy circumstances (like coming back from the dead and working with terrorists).  Falling for someone else, maybe.  Growing too far apart, definitely.  But one case of a loved one being hit with the stupid stick?

Not saying you shouldn't feel hurt about it, since it was a dick move, but yelling at people just because you're angry doesn't really solve any problems.

(Haha, real world advice for a videogame.  Cheez, u funneh.)

Are you really that forgiving AdmiralCheez?

If the people who love me in real life can forgive me for all the sh*t I've pulled, then I can forgive a video game character for being a royal douchebag.

Seriously, I'm surprised I still have the friends I do.

Because, like, holy cow.  I was a b*tch.

Well then if you are that forgiving whomever you end up with better treat you right because they would be very lucky.

[AdmiralCheez]

Ryzaki wrote...

Then kindly don't put words in others mouth. Everyone who decided to romance a ME2 LI after aME1 one doesn't do it for the aformentioned reasons. So do try not to lump everyone together.

Sorry, responding to too many posts.  Forget who's who.

*shrugs* I thought the VS had the flimiest reasoning for storming off. The whole point of them being there in thef first place was to gather intel. They decided to huff and throw away a valuable source.

What?  A human being, making a dumb decision?  That never happens!

More likely a month. I highly doubt Shep runs around recruiting Grunt, Garrus, Jack, Mordin (and possibly Zaeed and Kasumi and doing their missions) in a mere week. No to mention those rumors needed time to circulate.

Maybe.  Game time is weird.

Which was my whole point.

Oh.

Some people ! everyone.

Yes.

At least clarify who you're talking about.

Sorry.

A. Shep most likely was conscious for more than a week. 
B. Some people don't feel an apology and a "next time we see each oher...we'll see." is sufficent for a actual relationship
C. Could be for more reasons than just the fight. Lack of trust as I said. And yes if I think my partner doesn't trust me I end it. I'm weird like that. I have no patience to deal with someone who doesn't trust that I'm not doing something stupid when I go off on my own. Or at the least try to watch my back. The VS did neither. They didn't trust Shepard and they didn't try to get Shepard some help. 
D. Kind of hard to give a hoot about someone who doesn't offer any support other than one email when Shep's stressed the heck out compared to others who have been at his/her side through everything.

True.  But, considering the circumstances, can you blame them?  Two years, they don't hear a peep, and then boom!  Cerberus.

*sighs* And you don't get it. It's not the fight it's what the fight was about. And yes people are different some will end it after a fight over a certain thing. Especially if they feel that the foundation of the relationship in the first place was shakey. (How long did Shep know the VS?  A few months at best?)

Understandable.  And I get it, but like I said, you can't blame them when you consider the circumstances.

Now if you want to think you're Shep's cheating go ahead. Mine isn't.

OH SH*T OPINIONS ON THE INTERNET.  Nah, it's cool.

[Ryzaki]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Sorry, responding to too many posts.  Forget who's who.

Understandable. 

What?  A human being, making a dumb decision?  That never happens!

Never said it didn't. I said they had the flimest reasoning not that it was OMG OOC!

Maybe.  Game time is weird.

It is. 

True.  But, considering the circumstances, can you blame them?  Two years, they don't hear a peep, and then boom!  Cerberus.

I do blame them even if said circumstances are understable. Just like I blame my derp Shep for not sending emails to people he knew and just showing up and going "hai." like nothing happened. 

Understandable.  And I get it, but like I said, you can't blame them when you consider the circumstances.

Does the same not apply for Shepard? Here he/she is in the viper's nest being called a traitor, subordinate to a power hungry douchenuzzle, under attack by stalker Collectors can he/she really be blamed for thinking Kaidan/Ashley isn't worth waiing for? 

OH SH*T OPINIONS ON THE INTERNET.  Nah, it's cool.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 septembre 2011 - 04:14 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

All I know is if I get the chance to tell off the VS LI and its of Epic proportions....

I am so playing For Whom The Bell Tolls by Metallica in the background.... get some!

[AdmiralCheez]

Ryzaki wrote...

Never said it didn't. I said they had the flimest reasoning not that it was OMG OOC!

I never implied that you thought it was OOC.  But really, flimsiet reasoning still goes to Liara in my book.  At least Kaishley had a legit job to do.  They were just more of a dick about it.

I do blame them even if said circumstances are understable. Just like I blame my derp Shep for not sending emails to people he knew and just showing up and going "hai." like nothing happened.

You blame your character for a lack of a reply button on the terminal?  Me, I'm against blame-throwing.  Reminds me too much of political campaigns.

Does the same not apply for Shepard?

Depends on the Shep, I suppose.

[Ryzaki]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
I never implied that you thought it was OOC.  But really, flimsiet reasoning still goes to Liara in my book.  At least Kaishley had a legit job to do.  They were just more of a dick about it.

As you said. Opinions! 

Liara had saved Shep's ass in the first place. She having to make sure someone who saved SHep is safe wasn't a big deal to him. Plus she knew why Shep was working with Cerberus. But of course YMMV. 

IYou blame your character for a lack of a reply button on the terminal?  Me, I'm against blame-throwing.  Reminds me too much of political campaigns.

Yup. 

Well that's your opinion then no? 

Depends on the Shep, I suppose.

Well for me it's understandble for all Sheps. I don't get those Sheps that go back to the VS personally. Of course as you said opinions. 

Not to mention I have a save where I didn't mean to romance Ash (got the ninjamance trap) so as far as *that* Shep's concerned Ashley has some attachment issues. So I *defintely* don't see that as cheating. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 septembre 2011 - 04:22 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

Hey I am shocked that Joker did'nt inform both Shep and the VS LI to get in contact with each other there.

Being funny and piloting the ship... okay I am good with that... how about instead of constantly arguing with EDI you do something constructive and help your friends out. Obviously they needed the help.

[PMC65]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Yep! The forum doesn't seem complete without a VS / Horizon / Airlock thread.

Now all we need is someone to create the thread "Why can't I kill Liara/Will she be able to die in ME3?" and we have a pair!

Gets popcorn and waits .....

[Omega4RelayResident]

PMC65 wrote...

Yep! The forum doesn't seem complete without a VS / Horizon / Airlock thread.

Now all we need is someone to create the thread "Why can't I kill Liara/Will she be able to die in ME3?" and we have a pair!

Gets popcorn and waits .....

DONT BLAME ME... if it falls to page 3 and beyond its a dead thread. At least to me. I did not see it so I am not held accountable for this.

[jeweledleah]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Hey I am shocked that Joker did'nt inform both Shep and the VS LI to get in contact with each other there.

Being funny and piloting the ship... okay I am good with that... how about instead of constantly arguing with EDI you do something constructive and help your friends out. Obviously they needed the help.

the only way I can kinda excuse Joker that oversight (or Chakwas for that matter) is becasue they were aproached by Cerberus fairly early on, and probably ended up being stonewalled as well.  I woudln't be suprised if there was bad blood between VS and Joker, he sounded pretty uncomfortable when he talked to Shepard about Horizon....

[Omega4RelayResident]

jeweledleah wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Hey I am shocked that Joker did'nt inform both Shep and the VS LI to get in contact with each other there.

Being funny and piloting the ship... okay I am good with that... how about instead of constantly arguing with EDI you do something constructive and help your friends out. Obviously they needed the help.

the only way I can kinda excuse Joker that oversight (or Chakwas for that matter) is becasue they were aproached by Cerberus fairly early on, and probably ended up being stonewalled as well.  I woudln't be suprised if there was bad blood between VS and Joker, he sounded pretty uncomfortable when he talked to Shepard about Horizon....

Very good point there. Ill let my Joker off with a warning. I look out for my RL friends when it comes to their relationships.

[Willowhugger]

Actually, if a friend of mine worked with the CIA (Specter) status and stopped say, Godzilla (Sovereign) from destroying New York (The Citadel) - only to have the existence of Godzilla covered up before later fighting Martians (The Collectors) with the Taliban/IRA (Cerberus) after the Martians were kidnapping people.

I'd be slightly more credulous.

It's not like Shep was saying. "Hey, let's give militant Islam a chance."

He's a Spook doing Spooky things and maybe after Godzilla, I owe him the chance to give an explanation.

Modifié par Willowhugger, 10 septembre 2011 - 07:19 .

[AlphaDormante]

Honestly? In a situation like this, I could never pin the blame to one person. There are too many human emotions in play, and when those are involved, there's always a rift between logic and reality.

I always seem to see people railing on either the VS or Shepard, with the argument that the person they're defending is just human and makes mistakes and shouldn't be held accountable for what they've done. The thing is, both of them are right. Maybe it wasn't right of the VS to judge Shepard so quickly, but they were confused and hurt by Shepard's actions, and they're only human. Maybe it wasn't right for Shepard to move on from the relationship so quickly, but maybe s/he was confused and hurt by the VS' words, and s/he's only human.

I see genuinity in both sides - I don't think the VS' email was half-assed rather than a placeholder just to say "I want this to be okay, but I can't figure out how to get there right now - so this is just to let you know that I'm trying". And for Shepard the lines are a little blurrier because everyone's Shepard is different, but I don't think it's fair to write all of them off as purposeful cheaters. Shepard may be the finest example of humanity, but humanity is still human - maybe Shepard was stunned by the VS' reaction and hurt that they didn't trust him/her, and is finding it hard to forgive them. Is that fair, or logical? Maybe not, but it sure as hell is human.

tl;dr: It's a bit unfair to call one side insensitive or cruel when neither Shepard nor the VS are paragons of emotional objectivity. This is my opinion of course, but in a scenario that involves such strong emotions, forcing rights and wrongs into neat, labeled little boxes isn't going to get you anywhere.

Modifié par AlphaDormante, 10 septembre 2011 - 08:40 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

Hey I am not asking to screw over your endeavor to get back with your VS LI... I just want people to have the choice to take it in the other direction and defend Shep's actions in ME2

[AlphaDormante]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Hey I am not asking to screw over your endeavor to get back with your VS LI... I just want people to have the choice to take it in the other direction and defend Shep's actions in ME2

For the record, I romanced Kaidan in ME1 and then Garrus in ME2, and intend to stay with Garrus. I don't disagree with you, just as I don't disagree with the people who say that the VS was justified in their anger. I wasn't addressing you so much as I was the general viewpoints I see on this topic

[Omega4RelayResident]

AlphaDormante wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Hey I am not asking to screw over your endeavor to get back with your VS LI... I just want people to have the choice to take it in the other direction and defend Shep's actions in ME2

For the record, I romanced Kaidan in ME1 and then Garrus in ME2, and intend to stay with Garrus. I don't disagree with you, just as I don't disagree with the people who say that the VS was justified in their anger. I wasn't addressing you so much as I was the general viewpoints I see on this topic

I actually protest the Garrus and Tali relationships very openly. Only because of the Biology issue. Fluid exchange during intimate moments could possibly kill both parties. I mean it is stated that Turian and Quarian food is capable of making humans sick or even killing them and vice versa.

The biology of such a relationship... might but not necessarily have the same effect. I would never put them in danger like that. There isnt enough data to make the right choice in my opinion. Better safe than sorry I feel... even more so when I consider Garrus Shep's best friend and Tali a close second best. I care too much for them to endanger them.

I also worry for you guys too... I dont want it to end up like as if you had just melded with Morinth. Id hate for your game to get messed up like that.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 10 septembre 2011 - 09:20 .

[AlphaDormante]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

AlphaDormante wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Hey I am not asking to screw over your endeavor to get back with your VS LI... I just want people to have the choice to take it in the other direction and defend Shep's actions in ME2

For the record, I romanced Kaidan in ME1 and then Garrus in ME2, and intend to stay with Garrus. I don't disagree with you, just as I don't disagree with the people who say that the VS was justified in their anger. I wasn't addressing you so much as I was the general viewpoints I see on this topic

I actually protest the Garrus and Tali relationships very openly. Only because of the Biology issue. Fluid exchange during intimate moments could possibly kill both parties. I mean it is stated that Turian and Quarian food is capable of making humans sick or even killing them and vice versa.

The biology of such a relationship... might but not necessarily have the same effect. I would never put them in danger like that. There isnt enough data to make the right choice in my opinion. Better safe than sorry I feel... even more so when I consider Garrus Shep's best friend and Tali a close second best. I care too much for them to endanger them.

I also worry for you guys too... I dont want it to end up like as if you had just melded with Morinth. Id hate for your game to get messed up like that.

Well, I don't want to go into it here as that would veer this thread off-topic, but those points can easily be explained/argued. Hit me up on a PM or even pay a visit to either one of their fan threads if you really want to dive into the fine details.

More on-topic, I was always a bit disappointed that Shepard was more or less strong-armed by gameplay into ignoring the VS' email. I know that we can only roleplay Shepard to a certain extent, you can't reply to ANY email, etc, etc, but still. *insert generic BSN whining here*

[Omega4RelayResident]

I know that part makes me angry... even the fact that they wont let you talk to Shep's mother is kind of a messed up move.