81 réponses à ce sujet

[IronSabbath88]

BioWare
Bethesda
Rockstar
Bungie

[Seagloom]

Carfax wrote...

Obsidian has a lot of talent, but their delivery leaves much to be desired.  Games are usually very buggy on release, and even worse, incomplete.  NWN2 was a great game though, much better than it's predecessor.  And these are the same guys that were responsible for Planescape Torment, one of the greatest RPGs of all time.

If they could just get their execution together, then they could conceivably be at the top imo..

The buginess criticism is overblown.

KotOR2 - Buggy, with cut content. No argument here.

NWN2 + MotB + SoZ - Buggy. Of course, many of those bugs were NWN holdovers. Obsidian was working from an older build of BioWare's game as NWN2's base. It was consistently patched into a stable game.

Alpha Protocol - There were bugs? I read about this in reviews but never saw one. The sole patch this game received fixed the few that were found. Bad AI apparently equates bugginess now.

Fallout: New Vegas - Buggy. No question. Of course some of the worst bugs were inherent to Bethesda's engine, but few like to mention it. It is as if they expect Bethesda to strike them down from the pedastal they put them on. But yes, buggy.

Dungeon Siege III - Zero noteworthy bugs.

Out of seven titles Obsidian released two were bugfests. One was fixed up during its patch cycle, and both were hand me down engines with problems inherited from another studio. Yet this gets thrown out there time and again, as if no other company releases buggy games. BioWare has been doing it since BG2, save a few exceptions that lacked game breaking bugs such as Jade Empire.

The incomplete claim is debatable. Fact is, most developers release "incomplete" games. They cut content to meet deadlines, or because their ideas do not work in practice. I am sure there are other reasons too. If we are talking incomplete as in the game feeling unfinished, then I believe only KotOR2 inarguably qualifies. NWN2's original campaign is debateable. It definitely has an unfinished feel in regard to specific NPCs such as Casavir and Qara, but the adventure as a whole felt complete to me.

Still, I do not begrudge someone feeling Obsidian has issues with their execution. I cannot deny their games rarely feel spit-shine polished to the degree of a BioWare release. Mask of the Betrayer and Dungeon Siege III were their only releases to leave me with that impression.

Modifié par Seagloom, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:00 .

[termokanden]

I'm starting to wonder if I should put NWN2 on my list again. I played it once just after release. No patches, no expansions. I wasn't very impressed.

As for NWN, I didn't actually like that either to begin with. But I felt like HotU really changed things for the better. It was much better than the original compaign and it just made the character builds much more interesting.

[Seagloom]

Mask of the Betrayer and Storm of Zehir add a plethora of new classes and feats to play around with if you like trying out different builds. Out of the campaigns, MotB is easily the best of the three. Short, since it is an expansion, but well worth the time for anyone that enjoys a story driven RPG. I will not claim NWN2 is issue free, but it is a whole other game from what we got at launch.

I was not too impressed with it in the beginning either. I ended up spending more time playing on a NWN persistent world instead. It took me months to finish NWN2 at first because it was so poorly optimized, my old computer choked whenever I reached a certain hideout in Neverwinter.

Steam sells NWN2 with both expansions dirt cheap if you ever decide to go for it.

Modifié par Seagloom, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:22 .

[MerinTB]

I'm going to stick to existing game developers:

Obsidian (IMO some of the best RPG developers work here: KotOR2, Alpha Protocol, Fallout: New Vegas, and their pedigree of stuff most of them worked on at defunct studios)
Irrational Games (Ken Levine.  Freedom Force and BioShock.  'nuff said)
Relic Entertainment (Warhammer)
Valve (I've only really enjoyed the Portal series from them, really, BUT those games are so brilliant, the Source engine is a great game engine and Steam is (IMO) an amazing service, so they are top notch developers as far as I'm concerned)

BioWare has too many strikes against them for me now.  BG1, NWN, Jade Empire (which I enjoyed but still), DA2, and Arrival ( I won't even start on this... )  I think they have made great games in the past, they have great people working for them, but overall I'm not as excited by them as I once was.

Bethesda, The Creative Assembly and Blizzard are companies I'll watch for their games and often enjoy their products, but they are at the level that BioWare is now.  For me.  Each has not always made what I consider the best games.

[termokanden]

You think BG1 was a bad game? My mind is officially blown.

Modifié par termokanden, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:24 .

[AntiChri5]

My favourite developer would have to be BioWare.

Bethesda ranks a near third

As for Obsidian.......If you can make a game, they can make a much better version of it, but they seem to have almost no initiative of their own. Alpha Protocol was fun, but seriously flawed. All in all there is something almost parasitic about Obsidian. Their games are always good.....but is improving on someone else's work much of an accomplishment? They still get my number two spot though.

[MerinTB]

termokanden wrote...
You think BG1 was a bad game? My mind is officially blown.

I think, on release, it was a horribly slow, ponderous and boring game.

Opinions vary.  *shrug*

Back in 1998 I couldn't finish it.  The game engine was too obtuse at the time.  Later engine improvements made games like Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate 2 playable (and much fun!) for me.

It isn't a fair judgment on the quality of the story for BG1 or maybe even MOST of how the game played.  I just found getting from interesting point to interesting point TEDIOUS.  In 1998.

I can't even fathom trying to slog my way through the game now.

Modifié par MerinTB, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:42 .

[MerinTB]

AntiChri5 wrote...
As for Obsidian.......If you can make a game, they can make a much better version of it, but they seem to have almost no initiative of their own. Alpha Protocol was fun, but seriously flawed. All in all there is something almost parasitic about Obsidian. Their games are always good.....but is improving on someone else's work much of an accomplishment? They still get my number two spot though.

To be fair BioWare was kind of a parasite on Black Isle back in the BG days...

though to be even MORE fair I'd say "symbiote" may be a more accurate descriptive.

Modifié par MerinTB, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:46 .

[Ghost Lightning]

Square Enix

Bioware

Bethesda

Bungie

Infinity Ward

Rock star

[termokanden]

Well you are entitled to your opinion of course. I'll be honest with you, I've heard that complaint a few times before. That said, I don't see it as a sign that they were bad developers at the time. It may not have been perfect, and it is probably a tad too hardcore for most people (you could get killed VERY easily if you were just learning the mechanics). But I still see it as a landmark game. I hadn't played anything like it before. There were the truly oldschool D&D games of course, but those were even more hardcore and they just didn't work half as well as BG did with its simple but beautiful 2D graphics.

[Seagloom]

AntiChri5 wrote...

As for Obsidian.......If you can make a game, they can make a much better version of it, but they seem to have almost no initiative of their own. Alpha Protocol was fun, but seriously flawed. All in all there is something almost parasitic about Obsidian. Their games are always good.....but is improving on someone else's work much of an accomplishment? They still get my number two spot though.

I faintly recall an interview with an Obsidian employee commenting on how they are sort of mercenary in finding work. You make a fair point. Although I think this is symptomatic of the reality that Obsidian is not a big company. They are not attached to a wealthy publisher, and thusly must choose their projects carefully.

Developing an IP is expensive and risky. I wish they would work on their own project without another company codeveloping or publishing. Alpha Protocol and Dungeon Siege III were an original title and dissimilar sequel respectively, but neither was truly completely their own property.

Still, I consider it an accomplishment in much the same way Paizo took WotC's 3e rules and made some great tweaks to it. Some not so great tweaks too, but no one's perfect.

Even taking that some of Obsidian's sequels are built directly off another company's work, they usually implement a gameplay feature or quirk that is entirely their own. It is not as if they release a complete rehash of the original game with a new story.

Modifié par Seagloom, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:58 .

[termokanden]

I may have mentioned this, but I think Obsidian deserves a bit of praise for New Vegas. I really thought it improved on FO3 significantly. I never got very far in FO3, just got bogged down by the details somehow. NV was a different experience.

[Funkcase]

Bethesda
Bioware
Valve
ID
Remedy
Quantic dream

[AxecObl]

Bioware
They made almost all my favorite games: ME 1 & 2, DA:O, DA2, KotOR, & Jade Empire.

Black Isle Studios
They made my 2 other favorite games: Fallout 1 & 2

[AntiChri5]

Obsidian always improve enough to make their games well worth it, but seeing them constantly making other peoples sequels is like seeing a very talented writer writing pointless, commisioned expanded universe stuff and ghost writing, rather then making their own masterpiece.

Obsidian could craft a truly epic trilogy. At least, i think so.

[slimgrin]

Seagloom wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Larian just needs a bigger budget and some better writers and their games would be up there with the best. I consider Divine Divinity an RPG classic.

Indeed. It's an underrated game. I recently reinstalled it along with Beyond Divinity. By this time next year I want to play through the entire series for old time's sake. I see potential in their games, but their writing could definitely stand improvement. I'd be satisfied with that alone. Not that a bigger budget would be a bad thing.

It's an epically long game, and the map is huge and so wonderfully fleshed out. Ego Draconis also had great level design but I think it took a nose dive when you became a dragon so I never finished it. I look forward to another installment in the series.

As for my list:

Capcom - Technically a publisher and I don't think they are as important as they once were, but SSF4: AE is one of the greatest games ever made.

Bethesda - no one else beats their open world approach.

Bioware - I wonder what they'll do after ME3, I'm wishing they would move on but I think they'll milk ME and DA for a long time.

CDPR - These guys are a breath of fresh air. They truly make sophisticated and engaging games for adults. I think they have the best writers and artists in the industry as well as the best ethic. They simply won't quit patching TW2 unitl it's near perfect...and lets face it, vanilla version needed it.

Blizzard - I wish they'd branch out a bit more, but they epitomize quality and are still a PC only dev.

Egosoft - I love them. Sticking with an 'outdated' genre - does anyone else make space sims? They embrace community feedback and mods, and patch the the hell out of their games. If I was a multi-millionare I'd give them money casue I wish they were a bigger studio with a bigger budget. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 10 septembre 2011 - 08:30 .

[MerinTB]

termokanden wrote...
Well you are entitled to your opinion of course. I'll be honest with you, I've heard that complaint a few times before. That said, I don't see it as a sign that they were bad developers at the time. It may not have been perfect, and it is probably a tad too hardcore for most people (you could get killed VERY easily if you were just learning the mechanics). But I still see it as a landmark game. I hadn't played anything like it before. There were the truly oldschool D&D games of course, but those were even more hardcore and they just didn't work half as well as BG did with its simple but beautiful 2D graphics.

Oh, no, I mostly agree with you here.  The Infinity Engine, with a little tweaking, was a great engine and was used in some of my favorite games.   But BG1 was just unplayable enough for me to never get much past the first Chapter or so...
I've never even reached Baldur's Gate in Baldur's Gate.

[Turnip Root]

Square Enix is so bad they can't even get a good game out without a Western developer's support. Just look at Deus Ex Human Revolution. The Square/Enix watermark is practically a mockery of such a great game.

[Tommyspa]

1. Bethesda
2. BioWare
3. Rockstar
4. Square Enix, when they aren't doing something stupid.
Honorable mention of Obsidian, they better make a good wheel of time game.

[Nameless one7]

Tommyspa wrote...

1. Bethesda
2. BioWare
3. Rockstar
4. Square Enix, when they aren't doing something stupid.
Honorable mention of Obsidian, they better make a good wheel of time game.

Obsidian is making a Wheel of time game?

[naughty99]

Established developers of games I have personally enjoyed:
Bethesda, Firaxis, Obsidian, Irrational, ID, Bioware, Arkane

Up and coming developers worth keeping an eye on:
Frictional Games, Flying Wild Hog, CD Projekt, 38 Studios, Double Bear Productions, Playdead

[Romantiq]

RIP Troika

[Tommyspa]

Nameless one7 wrote...
Obsidian is making a Wheel of time game?

Red Eagle Games teamed up with Obsidian, yes. Google for more info, if you really want it. But it is pretty bare, I don't know if Obsidian is doing the heavy lifting, I just know they are involved.

[marshalleck]

Troika

Arcanum, ToEE and VTMB. Not to mention their Fallout pedigree. 'nough said.

Honorable mention: pre-KOTOR Bioware.

Modifié par marshalleck, 11 septembre 2011 - 01:33 .