56 réponses à ce sujet

[Wids]

That depends on what the BG method is. Not everyone is savvy on the lingo, after all.

[WebShaman]

BG = Balder's Gate.

The Balder's Gate Method of Party Control is to allow complete possession of any party member.

NWN2 returned this type of method (but had really cruddy AI) and DA (Dragon's Age) returned this type of method in perhaps the best form that we have witnessed it, to date.

[Wids]

Ah. So it's basically like the Dungeon Siege method, then.

[jmlzemaggo]

Wids wrote...

Ah. So it's basically like the Dungeon Siege method, then.

What a fine game that was... 

[Shadooow]

jmlzemaggo wrote...

Wids wrote...
I think it would be a huge goodie if, instead of Attack Nearest, we just had an Attack command where your pets attack whichever enemy you're highlighting at the time...

That's very possible, as I already played a few community modules with that kind of feature, most of the time through some custom "usable" item in your inventory, specific to that module, allowing you to click on the target of your choice for your henchy to have a straight and personal chat with. 

Maybe ask at the "Module" Forum.
But 100% possible. 

Well custom item is not very good as it takes a whole round to use it and do anything else again. It could be bound on one of those PC tools feats or I could change the henchman AI (wouldnt be compatible with Tony I guess unless I would modified tony as well) so if you use guard command or maybe attack nearest they will attack target you are currently attacking/casting at (if exist, if not default behavior).

I looked already into code and Guard command actually tries to attack the last enemy who attacked player character which is the only difference between attack nearest. Or do anyone have better idea how should could guard command work?

Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 17 septembre 2011 - 11:49 .

[jmlzemaggo]

I just tried that 'guard' command yesterday, first time in my life, as my henchies were getting the habit of flying away instead of fighting. And it works well as it is. They went right on the one causing me problems.
I mentionned the item only as a proof that it's possible with NWN (scripting, no more item?) to have your henchy engaging a very specific enemy of your choice.
Now how to do that, I have no idea.
I just know it's doable. Through an item for now. 
Which means also without any item. 

Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 17 septembre 2011 - 11:44 .

[WebShaman]

Yes, if it is doable as an item, then it is doable without it.

[Wids]

That would be nice.  Instead of relying on Attack Nearest ("Henchie, go get the closest baddie!") or Guard Me ("Henchie, go get the baddie who aggroed on me first!"), you could aim your henchie at, say, a wizard in the back of the baddie mob who was neither the closest nor the first to attack.  "Go get that guy, henchie, and damn the Attacks of Opportunity!"

Of course, I'd just be happy if Follow Me kept the henchmen right at my side.  Just a couple hours ago, I watched my Skeleton Captain who was set on Follow Me run all the way around a pond to chop down a few merrow that my cleric was popping with her longbow.  Again, "Follow Me".  And again, Cap'n Skellie ran back to her about five steps before turning right back around and charging the merrow again.  As luck had it, he ended up killing whatever merrow my cleric didn't kill and he came out mostly intact.  Good thing he's a tough old bastich.  Still ticked me off with that insubordination, though. <_<

[jmlzemaggo]

I saw that hapenning a few times, I lways thouhgt it depends on the module I was playing, the AI it was built on? And the OC is to far from my memories.
99% of the time, henchies follow when told so. And if they don't, as you said, it could work fine as well.

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

I actually liked the hench system when I first saw it. This is an RPG after all, not a strategy game, so it makes sense that you don't have direct control of henchmen and they should occasionally pop off and do something unexpected. And I also liked that the BG trick of concentrating your attacks didn't work. It kinda balances the playing field to have every man fighting for his life. It certainly makes for a more realistic melee. In theory the NWN henchie system was a step in the right direction.

Not so much in practice, though. The problem with NWN henchies is that they all act like they have a 5 int. A hench system like this would only work if the AI were better.

[Wids]

My Skeleton Captain reared his empty head again yesterday.  So there was an Ogre Brute about four or so paces in front of three ordinary Ogres (who are pretty weak compared to an Ogre Brute).  My pet was set to Follow Me, and he aggroed on the ogres, who aggroed in return.  In testament to the game's evil, malicious AI, not only did that Skeleton Captain run right past the Ogre Brute to attack the three Ogres in the back, but that Ogre Brute completely ignored the Skeleton Captain and ran right past him to attack my Cleric.  Fortunately, my Cleric's no slouch in melee either; 20 Strength after Bull's Strength and a Shar's Belt, Improved Knockdown, a Rapier +1 with Keen (pumped up to +4 Enhancement with Greater Magic Weapon) and enough Concentration (including Skill Focus: Concentration) to cast Battletide in melee...yeah, that Ogre Brute went down after a fairly long fight.  It would have been nice to have that Skellie Captain's help in chopping down the Brute, though; focus on the toughest guy in the mob, kill him first and you can take your time mopping up the rest.
Silly pets. 

Modifié par Wids, 24 septembre 2011 - 07:04 .

[WebShaman]

Well, the AI normally picks out the "easiest" to hit (lowest AC) and the lowest HPs.

Also, I believe the AI will pick spellcasters (normally due to this) first.

That would explain the whole situation that you encountered.

What you should have done - use an Invis potion/spell/item and let all the ogres aggro on your skelie...then rain death and destruction down upon them!

[BCH]

I would be thrilled beyond belief if someone here came up with a way to direct henchmen at specific targets using the OnPlayerChat event, so that such things could be hotkeyed.

I did the scripted item solution myself in my own game, but I only managed to figure out how to make henchmen reliably attack with weapons.  All my attempts to get them to attack with spells were extremely unreliable.  Sometimes they would, sometimes they wouldn't.  I think my use of DetermineCombatRound() was being overridden by the AI scripts.

[Rolo Kipp]

<reaching into a mass of scrolls...>

BCH wrote...
I would be thrilled beyond belief if someone here came up with a way to direct henchmen at specific targets using the OnPlayerChat event, so that such things could be hotkeyed.

I did the scripted item solution myself in my own game, but I only managed to figure out how to make henchmen reliably attack with weapons.  All my attempts to get them to attack with spells were extremely unreliable.  Sometimes they would, sometimes they wouldn't.  I think my use of DetermineCombatRound() was being overridden by the AI scripts.

Not sure if this will help, but are you mucking about with DeterminCR directly or are you preempting it with X2_SPECIAL_COMBAT_AI_SCRIPT & SetLocalInt(OBJECT_SELF,"X2_SPECIAL_COMBAT_AI_SCRIPT_OK",TRUE)?

This thread was very interesting to me :-) If anyone can figure out spell targeting for henchmen, it would be Funkyswerve & Lightfoot, eh?

<...and fishing out a short one>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 26 septembre 2011 - 04:55 .

[WebShaman]

I suggested using the OnPlayerChat event and the new feats for Henchie/Companion control awhile ago - not sure if anyone is working on it.

As for spellcasting AI - NWN sucks! I don't think there is any system out there that really makes it much better without serious customizations.

I DO know that there are PWs that have done such customizations and as a result have incredibly good caster AI.

[BCH]

Rolo Kipp wrote...

Not sure if this will help, but are you mucking about with DeterminCR directly or are you preempting it with X2_SPECIAL_COMBAT_AI_SCRIPT & SetLocalInt(OBJECT_SELF,"X2_SPECIAL_COMBAT_AI_SCRIPT_OK",TRUE)?

This thread was very interesting to me :-) If anyone can figure out spell targeting for henchmen, it would be Funkyswerve & Lightfoot, eh?

I didn't even dig that deep into the AI.  My clumsy attempts can be seen here, if anyone wishes:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/192/index/4851554

[WebShaman]

I think both HG and WoG have perhaps some of the best AI possible.

So, having the programming experts from those two PWs share their information would be absolutely the pinnacle in improving AI.

[BCH]

WebShaman wrote...

I think both HG and WoG have perhaps some of the best AI possible.

So, having the programming experts from those two PWs share their information would be absolutely the pinnacle in improving AI.

Does HG = Higher Ground and WoG = World of Greyhawk?

Please forgive me, I'm not active enough in the community to know all the abbreviations.

[HipMaestro]

BCH wrote...
Does HG = Higher Ground and WoG = World of Greyhawk?
Please forgive me, I'm not active enough in the community to know all the abbreviations.

You got it!

[Wids]

WebShaman wrote...

Well, the AI normally picks out the "easiest" to hit (lowest AC) and the lowest HPs.

Also, I believe the AI will pick spellcasters (normally due to this) first.

That would explain the whole situation that you encountered.

What you should have done - use an Invis potion/spell/item and let all the ogres aggro on your skelie...then rain death and destruction down upon them!

I do that with Negative Energy Burst.  It doesn't hurt my undead, it heals my undead and it saps the Strength of those towering muscleheads.  What's not to love?

[HipMaestro]

Wids wrote...
I do that with Negative Energy Burst.  It doesn't hurt my undead, it heals my undead and it saps the Strength of those towering muscleheads.  What's not to love?

OT but very curious about something... what do negative energy traps do to undead on your server?

[Calgacus]

I just posted a targetter wand in my utilities project (see link in my sig), you use it to tell a given henchman who you want them to attack. Its only good for basic attacks, no spells or fancy stuff. I would appreciate any comments to help improve it and any play testing you can find time to do with it.
It's a very basic thing so far but might be useful for ordering meat shields about.

Modifié par Calgacus, 08 octobre 2011 - 04:56 .

[WebShaman]

^ Does it work for multiple henchies?

[Calgacus]

I don't see why it wouldn't but i haven't tried it yet. Please try it out and let me know what you think - how can it be improved, problems, etc?

PS:  just tried it in a mod with 2 henchmen in my partty, it worked.

Modifié par Calgacus, 08 octobre 2011 - 04:55 .

[BCH]

When I build my own "sic 'em" wands, I put local variables on them so that the same scripts could be used to command henchmen, summoned creatures, dominated creatures, animal companions, and/or familiars.  Then I made standard versions for "everyone but henchmen" and "just henchmen."

I haven't looked at your wands yet, but I figured I'd offer that as a suggestion.

I can post my own work if you prefer to look at my scripts.

(Still, as ShaDoOoW pointed out, using an item takes a full round, and I haven't yet figured out a chat-based method for picking a target.)