18 réponses à ce sujet

[Weskerr]

The final boss battle. It is well thought out but badly implemented. Specifically, I'm talking about the rock wall barriers that grow out of the ground during Corypheus' rotating flame wall attack. The only reason why they are a bad choice for this battle is that the companion AI isn't sophisticated enough to navigate through the rock wall maze while following the character you control. Even when a character's "Behavior" is set to "Passive" (which means companions will always try to stay close to the character you're controlling) that character will oftentimes stop moving forward because he/she can't find a path to the character you're controlling. Because of this, the fight quickly stops being fun or challenging, and simply becomes tedius. Having to pause the game constantly to manually get a stuck companion to safety because of a flawed AI doesn't make the battle harder or more tactical. It just makes it annoying. If boss battles like this are going to be made for future DLCs, then the AI either needs to be improved or obstacles like these rock walls shouldn't be implemented that the AI can't handle.

[RagingCyclone]

I never had this come up. While it is true that the companions can get stuck like you mention, it's more a tactical issue you are describing. I found that slow and steady through the maze never presented this problem. Yes you can take some damage, but not enough to kill the party nor Hawke. Sometimes being the fastest will not win the battle. Just a suggestion.

[naledgeborn]

The developers have acknowledged your concern Weskerr and they have assured the fanbase that they'll do their best to fix it in future content.

[andraip]

If you walk slowly, or in tiny bits the AI will work perfectly. If you order your companion far away he won't find is way trought the labyrinth, maybe BioWare did this on purpose, so that you can't just order your companions to the next alcave and they find their way on their own.

But yes, it was a little bit annoying when I did the fight the first time.

[The Xand]

I just used the pause function to get 'em through right.

[Arthur Cousland]

Just walk slowly through the rock maze and you'll be fine.

After you've finished a fight with the shades in any particular alcove, wait for the fire to pass, then walk closely behind it. If you walk slowly, your companions won't get too far behind and will take the same path as you. You aren't required to manually control your companions or tell them where to move to.

I'm glad Bioware thought outside of the box with this particular encounter. While the end result isn't perfect, with companions getting stuck, you can easily work around it. I'd rather them try to do things better or different and risk things not turning out as intended, than not trying at all.

[Zabaniya]

While I agree that tactics need to be fixed for companions, I didn't find it tedious. I actually manually controlled all my characters throughout the game simply because of the aforementioned flawed tactics.

[andraip]

@Zabaniya

You're doing something wrong then, if you use the tactics correctly you game will flow better then without tactics. The PC reacts quicklier then you could. Maybe it could help checking SuicidalBaby's tactics guide (***WARNING - Nerd Corner***).

[Quething]

I didn't have any trouble just letting them follow me. But if you are, using select all (and possibly hold) and then directing your party around the rocks point-by-point should do it, quite quickly and with a minimum of tedium (it's good to have them on Hold+Select All anyway when you get around to the shades, so they stay close to the fight and don't go running off into the maze trying to reach optimal bow/staff range and get themselves roasted).

[Giltspur]

I just used select-all and manually moved my party.  That said, I agree that the last battle was more of a test of your ability to use the UI than it was a test of Hawke/Merrill/Aveline/Varric's ability to fight Corypheus.  In other words your mind wasn't on the fight and the abilities and where you want people to be as much as it was on the details of the hold command, the select-all option, the companion AI scripts and generally how to get people to actually do what you intend.  So while I liked Legacy, that element of the last fight was admittedly suboptimal.

[TEWR]

Weskerr wrote...

The final boss battle. It is well thought out but badly implemented. Specifically, I'm talking about the rock wall barriers that grow out of the ground during Corypheus' rotating flame wall attack. The only reason why they are a bad choice for this battle is that the companion AI isn't sophisticated enough to navigate through the rock wall maze while following the character you control. Even when a character's "Behavior" is set to "Passive" (which means companions will always try to stay close to the character you're controlling) that character will oftentimes stop moving forward because he/she can't find a path to the character you're controlling. Because of this, the fight quickly stops being fun or challenging, and simply becomes tedius. Having to pause the game constantly to manually get a stuck companion to safety because of a flawed AI doesn't make the battle harder or more tactical. It just makes it annoying. If boss battles like this are going to be made for future DLCs, then the AI either needs to be improved or obstacles like these rock walls shouldn't be implemented that the AI can't handle.

I agree with you about companion AI (or lack thereof) bringing the fight's level of fun down a bit for me.

Somewhat related: I actually think the rock maze shouldn't have been his only earth elemental type attack. I think stalagmites should've shot up from the ground in random places, and the icicle stalactites hit the ground in other random areas.

By that I mean you have an earth stalagmite to your right, and an icicle stalactite to your left, but they wouldn't keep hitting the same place. It would be random.

I also think bosses should have other types of attacks. Once Corypheus stopped using his elemental attacks for a while he just used little mage bolt type attacks like DAO's mages did. I think he should've picked up one of the companions or Hawke and drained him/her of their health a bit to restore his (he is a Magister, and it could be a blood magic ability). Along with maybe throwing a companion across the field into a wall.

I'd like for the bosses to have more than just a very limited set of attacks. I'd like for them to have more than 4-5 types of attacks and for them to also use some more tactics.

[Morroian]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

After you've finished a fight with the shades in any particular alcove, wait for the fire to pass,

You still get fire damage in the alcoves, a lot of it.

[lobi]

Cannot understand why the whole game is auto attack fest, then they make corphy maze a micro manage. Is it some kind of petulant ;'we are making a point here' by the devs. If so the sillyness of corphys washing machine attack would underline this. He should have turned into a flying dragon with air attacks for the Archers and Mages to bring him down for the Warriors and rogues. But that would require an open area. Like Bone pitt. Which was wasted. Flemith can flame breath when flying why can other Dragons not.

[Addai]

I used ctl + A to move the entire party. Rinse, repeat.   It's tedious, to be sure.

Modifié par Addai67, 12 septembre 2011 - 01:48 .

[Sabariel]

Huh. I've never had that problem. The party stuck to Hawke like burrs the entire time.

[Weskerr]

Thank you everyone for your responses and feedback. Although not everyone observed and experienced what I did on this boss fight, I'm glad I'm not the only one who was frustrated about the mechanics of the fight. If only they could improve the AI, then boss fights like this would actually be enjoyable and challenging rather than boring and tedious.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Somewhat related: I actually think the rock maze shouldn't have been his only earth elemental type attack. I think stalagmites should've shot up from the ground in random places, and the icicle stalactites hit the ground in other random areas.

By that I mean you have an earth stalagmite to your right, and an icicle stalactite to your left, but they wouldn't keep hitting the same place. It would be random.

I also think bosses should have other types of attacks. Once Corypheus stopped using his elemental attacks for a while he just used little mage bolt type attacks like DAO's mages did. I think he should've picked up one of the companions or Hawke and drained him/her of their health a bit to restore his (he is a Magister, and it could be a blood magic ability). Along with maybe throwing a companion across the field into a wall.

I'd like for the bosses to have more than just a very limited set of attacks. I'd like for them to have more than 4-5 types of attacks and for them to also use some more tactics.

I had the same thoughts about Corypheus' attacks. Not only were the number of his attacks limited, but the mage bolt attack that you mentioned he does ignores the rock wall obstacles as if they aren't there and goes right through them. So the boss has no LOS restrictions but the player does. To me, that's another glaring fault of the fight.

[Arthur Cousland]

Yes, you do take some fire damage in the alcoves, but it should be minimal. If not, then bring fire resist runes. If you know ahead of time that Corypheus' most dangerous attack is fire based, then it makes sense to come prepared.

If there's any real complaint about this particular fight for me, it is that Corypheus follows a pattern. Bioware could have randomized Corypheus' attacks a bit to keep me on my toes.

[Luckywallace]

I loved the final boss. I do love micro-managing and controlling all party members it has to be said but never had problems with any companions lingering in the fire or what not.

Legacy was great.

[aries1001]

I solved this problem by just selecting all of them at once (am on pc so I can do this, don't think console players can, though). Then I turned of tactics for each character as well; I took control of the group and just baby-stepped them through the maze in very small, incremental steps.

This meant waiting for the iceshards to fall, waiting for the electric storm to pass and waiting for the fire to pass as well. I also quickly found out that if you hide your characters in the alcoves all the way in the corners, they don't make much damage - or no damage at all - from the fire. I split the group in 2X2, so that 2 members of the group were in one corner and the other 2 members of the group were in the other corner.

I liked the final boss battle in Legacy, it required you to think both strategically and tactically and reminded me a bit (a lot?) about the boss battle with Irenicus way back in BG2.