185 réponses à ce sujet

[bazzag]

I'm thinking a certain Mister Jeff Moreau would bring a different angle to the whole spectre association

[lazuli]

Jacob. He gets tired of bureaucracy and would like to take things into his own hands, albeit without forsaking laws completely like, say, Garrus.

The Suicide Mission proves that he's got the leadership chops to get the job done. Oh, and there's always ME:Galaxy as further proof of his abilities.

[longlun]

Lexa_ wrote...

Garrus seems so obvious for everybody but the guy really has a problem with "gray". He would become a new Saren after a while. He would listen to the council but if, someday they don't decide fast enough or it's opposite to his own decision he would do it his way.

Saren was only rogue because of indoctrination.  And he was a complete xenophobe anyway.

Garrus has neither of those problems.  And the Council would never question the methods of a Spectre.  They let Saren kill innocent people so they didn't have to.  If Garrus ends up doing the same, it doesn't make him any worse than Renegade Shepard.

Modifié par longlun, 13 septembre 2011 - 01:52 .

[didymos1120]

longlun wrote...

Saren was only rogue because of indoctrination.

No.  Read Revelation.  He was already playing fast and loose with the rules back then, and deliberately concealed the information about the discovery Sovereign before he ever got near it, fully intending to use it in order to increase his own personal power.

[darthnick427]

GARRUS F*CKING VAKARIAN!!!

[Labrev]

longlun wrote...

And yes I pick Garrus. I agree he's a bit hot-headed, but he's got the determination to do what is necessary. He won't hesitate to kill, but won't enjoy the act of killing either.  Also, even though he's Shepard's sidekick, he's proven that he's got some manner of leadership skills.  With that said however, remember that Garrus does not trust the Council at all.  If he's ever to join only Shepard could convince him.

Zaeed is motivated by money.  Sure he could get the job done, but pay him enough money he'd betray the council just as easily.

I actually think Miranda's a good choice.  She's cold enough to kill when necessary, but not crazy enough to kill needlessly.  She's a proven leader, highly intelligent, and above-average biotic.  If she could be convinced that it is in humanity's interest to help the Council (especially since she already quit Cerberus after ME2), and if the Council could accept a former Cerberus operative, she would make an excellent Spectre.

Like Jacob, Ashley is just an effective soldier.  Only difference is Cerberus or Alliance.  Her biggest problem however, is like Garrus, she's too hot-headed (and quite a bit more so than Garrus).  And I'm all for Team-Ashley, so let's hope her character went through some major development to make her a Spectre.

This is my opinion, so please don't hate on me....Kaidan whines.  A lot.  Nothing about him comes across as a badass protector of the galaxy.  I can at least picture Ashley (and Jacob) intimidate someone to get what they need.  Kaidan might have to cry on people for hours.

Sorry, I have to chime in on a couple things I don't agree about.

Garrus hesitates to shoot (and for that matter, kill) Harkin, and then Sidonis. He does it, but is completely unsure of it. Enough that he can be told to stand down by Shepard. He himself says he's not good at dealing with "gray" areas. Unfortunately, being a Spectre means dealing with TONS of gray.

I don't think Zaeed is as money-motivated as people seem to think. Archangel had a huge bounty on him but Zaeed didn't go for it. He said he wanted the same thing as him, "a lot of mercs dead."

Kaidan is no whiner. The guy talks about what happened to him at Jump Zero and basically says, "Anyway, this is ancient stuff I walked it off a long time ago. We're here to make history, not rehash it." And yes, he also states how he and the crew is discontented by the fact that Shepard isn't getting the support from the council that he/she should be. But, that to me is just being a good friend. Telling me that "man, I got your back, and so does this whole crew." Not some stupid crap about spilling drinks on the Citadel. In fact, using the word "badass" next to "protector of the galaxy" makes me question if you have the right idea with how you're going about looking at this thing.

I don't see Ashley as hot-headed. Hard-headed, maybe, but that's totally different altogether. She's pretty much on the same page as renegade Shepard.

Miranda is much too naiive to be a Spectre, IMO. She's pretty much placed her full and complete trust in Cerberus for protecting her and her sister. You can see it when she offers to answer any questions you have about Cerberus, she has a romanticized idea about what they are and their goals, but doesn't actually know a damn thing about The Illusive Man, what kind of resources/connections he or the organization has, or anything else remotely important. It's one thing to be smart, it's another to be wise. I don't see that in Miranda.

[MajorStranger]

It's always been Me and Garrus against the universe. I think every member of your team should be either Spectre or Deputy spectre.

[longlun]

@Hah Yes Reapers

All good bro, I like other people's views.

However.....

Garrus hesitates to shoot (and for that matter, kill) Harkin, and then Sidonis. He does it, but is completely unsure of it. Enough that he can be told to stand down by Shepard. He himself says he's not good at dealing with "gray" areas. Unfortunately, being a Spectre means dealing with TONS of gray.

Garrus hesitates only if Shepard tells him otherwise.  Do the opposite, and he won't even flinch (and the fact that he didn't downright kill Harkin would make him a better Spectre, because he really had no reason to other than the fact that he didn't like him).  He looks up to Shepard and holds his/her view in high regard.

I don't think Zaeed is as money-motivated as people seem to think. Archangel had a huge bounty on him but Zaeed didn't go for it. He said he wanted the same thing as him, "a lot of mercs dead."

Don't remember Zaeed saying that so I can't dispute.  Though I still think you offer him enough money he'd take any job.  Garrus is an extremely high risk job though, and he must know better.

Kaidan is no whiner. The guy talks about what happened to him at Jump Zero and basically says, "Anyway, this is ancient stuff I walked it off a long time ago. We're here to make history, not rehash it." And yes, he also states how he and the crew is discontented by the fact that Shepard isn't getting the support from the council that he/she should be. But, that to me is just being a good friend. Telling me that "man, I got your back, and so does this whole crew." Not some stupid crap about spilling drinks on the Citadel. In fact, using the word "badass" next to "protector of the galaxy" makes me question if you have the right idea with how you're going about looking at this thing.

As for Kaidan, I don't know.... He'll talk about how he had a ****ty past and then tell you "it's all in the past"....  Then talks about the problems with the Council and how they treat humanity like crap while I'm always loyal to the council (even in Renegade playthroughs).  Maybe I'm just bias because I always leave him to die (Ashley is 100% my VS and LI). 

And what's wrong with badass protector of the galaxy?

I don't see Ashley as hot-headed. Hard-headed, maybe, but that's totally different altogether. She's pretty much on the same page as renegade Shepard.

Agreed.  She's more stubborn than rash.  Though I'm not sure if that's a good trait for a Spectre either.

Miranda is much too naiive to be a Spectre, IMO. She's pretty much placed her full and complete trust in Cerberus for protecting her and her sister. You can see it when she offers to answer any questions you have about Cerberus, she has a romanticized idea about what they are and their goals, but doesn't actually know a damn thing about The Illusive Man, what kind of resources/connections he or the organization has, or anything else remotely important. It's one thing to be smart, it's another to be wise. I don't see that in Miranda.

Illusive Man is a manipulative bastard who could convince an eskimo to buy a freezer.  I mean seriously, if you catch him sleeping with your wife right in front of your eyes, in 5 minutes he could probably convince you that it didn't happen.  And he makes sure NOBODY knows a damn thing about him (hence his title).  There's no shame or foolishness for placing your trust in him.  And she does have it in her to quit in the end if you keep the base.  But then again this is all assuming the Paragon conclusion in the suicide mission where the collector base is destroyed anyway (if the base is kept, she doesn't leave even if she disapproves). 

Miranda has always put humanity's interest first, even before TIM's interests.  All she had to see was that they are not the same.  For her to be a Spectre, she just needs to be convinced that Council interests are human interests.  She has all the qualities, just needs the right allegiance.

Modifié par longlun, 13 septembre 2011 - 04:47 .

[Zall]

Jack, for the lulz and to see the Council's faces.

But actually, I think Garrus would make the perfect Spectre.

[robtheguru]

If he wasn't going to die soon i'd go with Thane. Purely because if the council need someone to die he'd get the job done cleanly and quickly with minimal collateral damage to civilians.

[longlun]

robtheguru wrote...

If he wasn't going to die soon i'd go with Thane. Purely because if the council need someone to die he'd get the job done cleanly and quickly with minimal collateral damage to civilians.

What about when the Council needs innocents to die?

Modifié par longlun, 13 septembre 2011 - 05:05 .

[SkittlesKat96]

Garrus, I get that in ME 2 he said that he decided not to be a Spectre but he didn't rule it out either, I bet Shepard could convince him to join the Spectres, I'm sure he'd appreciate the extra benefits and also he needs to have his own responsibilities, like the Shadow Broker noted about him, Shepard wears him down. He has the potential of being one of the great Spectres like Shepard or Saren (before Saren was indoctrinated, also thats not to say the things Saren did as a Spectre was right, but you have to admit he got things done and worked for galactic order and peace in his own way...even though he was an anti-human ******)

Garrus wouldn't be a perfect Spectre but the potential is still there, I also think that Jacob might make a good Spectre. I don't think it says anywhere that Spectres have to be Alliance/apart of a Citadel species military, and he isn't so big about Cerberus anyway so he could just leave Cerberus and try and get the Council let him become a Spectre. That is of course assuming he decides being a Spectre/working for the Council is worth it, and they look past his Cerberus past (the council don't seem too big on Cerberus themselves.)

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 13 septembre 2011 - 11:03 .

[Bigdoser]

If the geth become well known and that won't be until a very long time I would say legion would make a good spectre. Garrus would make a good spectre if he learned how to view things in shades of grey than black and white.

[Dean_the_Young]

jreezy wrote...

Skullheart wrote...
Tali: Worst leader ever, got almost all of her squad killed in Freedom Progress.
 

People have minds of their own. What happened on Freedom's Progress wasn't her fault.

Part of the working definition of leadership is convincing people to do what you want them to do. You can inspire, bribe, coerce, whatever, but at the end of the day leadership takes independent minds into account.

Freedom's Progress was a definite failure of leadership on Tali's part.

[Xilizhra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Skullheart wrote...
Tali: Worst leader ever, got almost all of her squad killed in Freedom Progress.
 

People have minds of their own. What happened on Freedom's Progress wasn't her fault.

Part of the working definition of leadership is convincing people to do what you want them to do. You can inspire, bribe, coerce, whatever, but at the end of the day leadership takes independent minds into account.

Freedom's Progress was a definite failure of leadership on Tali's part.

I think it was a far worse failure on the part of whomever selected the teams; Tali doesn't actually have military authority over the quarian marines, so far as I know, so it was wholly reliant on the marine leader's goodwill. And Prazza was clearly not willing to accept civilian leadership at all; in any case, it was Prazza who actually led the team into the YMIR and got everyone killed. One can argue that Prazza's disobedience was Tali's fault, but not Prazza's idiotic impulsiveness and poor positioning.

[Someone With Mass]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Part of the working definition of leadership is convincing people to do what you want them to do. You can inspire, bribe, coerce, whatever, but at the end of the day leadership takes independent minds into account.

Freedom's Progress was a definite failure of leadership on Tali's part.

You can't join up with a couple of strangers and immediately expect to gain their loyalty and trust to the point where they would gladly take a bullet for you.

Even if your leader is an ass or a jerk or whatever you want to call him, he's in charge and you should follow his lead, not run away on your own just because things doesn't seem to go your way.

Prazza was an idiot and he got himself killed because of it.

[Golden Owl]

longlun wrote...

robtheguru wrote...

If he wasn't going to die soon i'd go with Thane. Purely because if the council need someone to die he'd get the job done cleanly and quickly with minimal collateral damage to civilians.

What about when the Council needs innocents to die?

Paragon Shep doesn't shoot innocents either.

[robtheguru]

longlun wrote...

robtheguru wrote...

If he wasn't going to die soon i'd go with Thane. Purely because if the council need someone to die he'd get the job done cleanly and quickly with minimal collateral damage to civilians.

What about when the Council needs innocents to die?

There are plenty of Spectres, some who probably wouldn't mind doing that. Thane would be more like a scalpel than a battleaxe.

[lovgreno]

If it wasn't for his Cerberus bonds Jacob could be a good spectre. He is loyal to his ideals and overall a dependable and skilled individual. If he plays a important part in taking down Cerberus perhaps.

[jeweledleah]

lovgreno wrote...

If it wasn't for his Cerberus bonds Jacob could be a good spectre. He is loyal to his ideals and overall a dependable and skilled individual. If he plays a important part in taking down Cerberus perhaps.

this

especialy since he already performed a spectre like mission before, in Galaxy.

[Dean_the_Young]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Part of the working definition of leadership is convincing people to do what you want them to do. You can inspire, bribe, coerce, whatever, but at the end of the day leadership takes independent minds into account.

Freedom's Progress was a definite failure of leadership on Tali's part.

You can't join up with a couple of strangers and immediately expect to gain their loyalty and trust to the point where they would gladly take a bullet for you.

You can, however, join a heirarchial organization in which you are put together with a couple of strangers and immediately expected to obey orders of superiors on the basis that they have been put over you and in charge of the mission.

Such organizations are often called 'militaries.'

Even if your leader is an ass or a jerk or whatever you want to call him, he's in charge and you should follow his lead, not run away on your own just because things doesn't seem to go your way.

Prazza was an idiot and he got himself killed because of it.

And his failure is also Tali's failure, because it's the job of a leader to keep subordinates from getting so fed up they mutiny.

[Someone With Mass]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
And his failure is also Tali's failure, because it's the job of a leader to keep subordinates from getting so fed up they mutiny.

It's pretty hard for anyone to change a guy's mind if he thinks the whole thing is bogus, though.

It's not like in games where you can convince someone that what they're doing is wrong by uttering about ten words.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Skullheart wrote...
Tali: Worst leader ever, got almost all of her squad killed in Freedom Progress.
 

People have minds of their own. What happened on Freedom's Progress wasn't her fault.

Part of the working definition of leadership is convincing people to do what you want them to do. You can inspire, bribe, coerce, whatever, but at the end of the day leadership takes independent minds into account.

Freedom's Progress was a definite failure of leadership on Tali's part.

I think it was a far worse failure on the part of whomever selected the teams; Tali doesn't actually have military authority over the quarian marines, so far as I know, so it was wholly reliant on the marine leader's goodwill. And Prazza was clearly not willing to accept civilian leadership at all; in any case, it was Prazza who actually led the team into the YMIR and got everyone killed. One can argue that Prazza's disobedience was Tali's fault, but not Prazza's idiotic impulsiveness and poor positioning.

Tali isn't exactly 'civilian leadership,' but then Prazza and his were never established as quarian marines either.

Most of the migrant fleet seems to operate under a general paramilitary basis, outside of the actual Quarian Marines (of which we know... one). The difference between 'civilians' and soldiers are primary specialization in adulthood: Rael and Admiral what's-his-name were fighting as part of fleet duties even before they did their pilgrimage.

To be clear, Tali isn't being blamed for Prazza's incompetence. Tali's failure is in allowing the situation to develop to the point that her own group abandoned her. What could she have done to prevent it? Giving a satisfactory reason to be working with Cerberus other than 'because I say so' would have been a good start. Not working with Cerberus would have been another. A good part of leadership is making those to be lead understand why a order should be followed. This doesn't mean a deep question-and-answer at every opportunity, but different followers need different amounts, and Tali's method of justification was, in a word, abysmal.

[Xilizhra]

To be clear, Tali isn't being blamed for Prazza's incompetence. Tali's failure is in allowing the situation to develop to the point that her own group abandoned her. What could she have done to prevent it? Giving a satisfactory reason to be working with Cerberus other than 'because I say so' would have been a good start. Not working with Cerberus would have been another. A good part of leadership is making those to be lead understand why a order should be followed. This doesn't mean a deep question-and-answer at every opportunity, but different followers need different amounts, and Tali's method of justification was, in a word, abysmal.

I think this had a lot to do with the "just-learned-about-my-old-commander-and-possible-crush-being-back-from-the-dead" thing. She was a tad flustered, to say the least, and as seen on Horizon, that can lead to people saying stupid things.