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[dxusaus]

The Sandal part is especially strange since Witch Hunt takes place two and a half years after the events of Origins.
I guess after act one they decide to go on vacation to Ferelden?
Also my Cousland would have never recruited Templars since he's not a friend of the chantry.
That leaves only Senechal Varrel to take over while the Warden is gone. Unless of course someone convinced Alistair to take over as Warden Commander but i doubt that.

[Heidenreich]

dxusaus wrote...

The Sandal part is especially strange since Witch Hunt takes place two and a half years after the events of Origins.
I guess after act one they decide to go on vacation to Ferelden?
Also my Cousland would have never recruited Templars since he's not a friend of the chantry.
That leaves only Senechal Varrel to take over while the Warden is gone. Unless of course someone convinced Alistair to take over as Warden Commander but i doubt that.

Okay what?

[Knight of Dane]

Bodhan also says: "Well I did... I brought him to the circle of magi.. About a year after coming to the surface."

Which is very vague ^^

[Stoomkal]

Lol... I *cannot* believe I just read the "Maybe dwarves have quick babies" idea...

The devs have already said *NO* to this. Felsi had her critter in the same time all women do.

Awakening is a minimum of one year post DA:O.

GoA and WH happen roughly six months after Awakening.

I cannot remember the threads these were in - check the wiki. It is solid.

And the retconning of the wardens is just that, retconning.

It is to show us what we already know. BW *hate* the idea of Grey Wardens, and the Warden Commander... they were so, so, so sick of hearing about the damn Grey Wardens that they decided to sort it out finally.

They *specifically* have made the Wardens "bad guys" now because that is what they *are* going to be...

BW hate the wardens, like they hated the DA:O fallout... all we have done is assure that the Warden Commander's story will *never* be finished.

At best, I expect to hear my Hero of Ferelden died of terminal impotence and the OGB was retconned to death by angry nugs...

[Knight of Dane]

Well Major Obvious just decided what we should think.

Stoomkal wrote...

Lol... I *cannot* believe I just read the "Maybe dwarves have quick babies" idea...

The devs have already said *NO* to this. Felsi had her critter in the same time all women do.

Awakening is a minimum of one year post DA:O.

GoA and WH happen roughly six months after Awakening.

I cannot remember the threads these were in - check the wiki. It is solid.

And the retconning of the wardens is just that, retconning.

It is to show us what we already know. BW *hate* the idea of Grey Wardens, and the Warden Commander... they were so, so, so sick of hearing about the damn Grey Wardens that they decided to sort it out finally.

They *specifically* have made the Wardens "bad guys" now because that is what they *are* going to be...

BW hate the wardens, like they hated the DA:O fallout... all we have done is assure that the Warden Commander's story will *never* be finished.

At best, I expect to hear my Hero of Ferelden died of terminal impotence and the OGB was retconned to death by angry nugs...

I won't comment on Bioware commenting on dwarf preggies, but fact remains that Awakening takes place six months after Origin ends, and Oghrens baby has been born by then.

Also, if Dwarfs was pregnant as long as humans it would have taken the dwarf commoner/noble nine months to go to Ostagar and back, since ther nephew/son has been born when they do, that makes no sense to the dynamic storyline.

[Stoomkal]

uh...

uh...

No.

Six month pregnancies? Link plz...

[Quething]

@KoD: in fairness, you're not supposed to visit Orzammar first. You can, obviously, but the game kind of begs you not to; it's lower level cap is higher than your PC can legitimately be on the way out of Lothering, and they pretty much hammer you with "GO TO REDCLIFFE" as soon as you have the choice to move. Plus, the DN origin sort of discourages you from coming back home; you don't exactly have the same warm welcome waiting for you that a Dalish or City Elf can hope for. I think they just plotted that sidequest figuring that 90% of the playerbase would do Orz at least second or third on the list (which basically works), and 90% of the remaining 10% wouldn't be playing male dwarf nobles who banged a noble hunter.

Hardly the worst handwave in the game.

[Patchwork]

That's true Quething but female DN can go to Denarium whenever and Gorim is married and has a child.

Word of God might say no dwarven babies gestate for as long as human babies but the game doesn't back it up.

I just find it hard to accept that the wardens would create such a presedant as allowing a Chantry loyal templar to join and oversee one of their mages.

I do wonder if the First Warden isn't trying to mold Feralden into another Anderfells(?). Where the real political power lies with the wardens and not with the crown.

Modifié par Ser Bard, 15 septembre 2011 - 11:27 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Wulfram wrote...

I don't think it's that problematic to say that the royal marriage gets bumped forward or something. More difficult is the necessary time for Oghren to have a baby

Not really. Given that Oghren and Felsi were "rutting" about before little Oghren was born, it's quite possible Felsi already had a little bun in the oven before they got married. This seems even more likely given that Oghren and Felsi end up together, even if you don't hook them up. Felsi could have discovered she was pregnant, and tracked Oghren down and had a bit of a "shotgun" wedding so junior gets to be born legit.

[Mike3207]

I have my doubts about the royal wedding -it's stated it's 6 months after the Blight, but I definitely feel it's more likely only a couple weeks after the Blight ends like in the coronation scene. The dwarf in DA2 says at the start of Act 1 in DA2 that the Warden is married to the Queen, and the Anora cameo suggests that she's been married to the Warden a considerable time.

I doubt there's any love lost between the First Warden and the Ferelden Wardens. It's really up to you to roleplay how much support you want to give Weisshaupt. I always got the impression it was up to the Warden how much support you gave them-they don't owe Weisshaupt anything.

As for my Warden, he spent a lot of the time after Awakenings in Denerim. Everyone kept saying what a good King he was. I'm still waiting to hear how a King in the Royal palace would be hard to find.

[Quething]

Ooh, good point about Gorim, Ser Bard. Damn Aeducans mess everything up. ><

On the whole, though, I think the DAverse demands a comic fan approach to the timeline. That is to say: don't. It will only end in tears.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

When you said a comic fan approach, I assumed you were talking about Marvel's good old "No prize." That is to say, someone can probably explain pretty much anything in a way that follows the rules of the universe. It may be entirely ridiculous, and the solution doesn't really matter, but there probably is one, and it's up to you to come up with it. Maybe, if you do, Stan Lee will laugh and give you a pat on the back.

I don't think that Bioware has the idea that the Wardens are corrupt, so much as the idea that the Wardens have a job that requires them to be insanely practical to the point of nigh-on immorality, and also that the Orlesians and the Chantry have their hand in pretty much every political structure anywhere ever. The Wardens didn't allow the Chantry to intervene because they're bad guys, rather they did so because the Chantry is far too powerful to be resisted.

[Quething]

Haha, no, I meant in the sense of "five Robins in five years? and when exactly was Damian conceived? and which war exactly was Tony selling weapons for, and who came first, Namor or Logan?"

I don't think that BioWare has the idea that the Wardens are corrupt either. I think they wrote them according to certain genre conventions and plot requirements and don't even now fully agree that that caused them to be significantly more "outright sinister" than "interestingly ambiguous."

Modifié par Quething, 20 septembre 2011 - 11:47 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

In my headcanon, to my Warden, the Wardens are a good-seeming idea that the humans have totally ruined. After she came back from Witch Hunt to find out that they'd gone behind her back, she sort of declared herself "Commander of an Independent Task Force." Now she runs around teaching people about darkspawn and saving individual villages and recruiting people to help her fight, explaining to them what fighting darkspawn means before they join and only giving them the chalice if they want it, or if they get tainted.

After all, the First Warden might not LIKE the Hero of Ferelden, but he's not going to speak against her publicly since she's basically publicity gold.

I think the Warden's story will never be finished, not because Bioware hates the Warden, but because people's ideas of what and who their Warden is are so different. Some Wardens are king or queen, some are dead, some are happy in Amaranthine, some never went there, some are through the looking glass, some are pissed at the Wardens and have gone off wandering, some are going to be involved in the mage revolution. You can't tell a story that would satisfy all those endings and all those ideas, so to try is an exercise in futility that would probably frustrate more people than it satisfies.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 21 septembre 2011 - 12:10 .

[Mike3207]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I think the Warden's story will never be finished, not because Bioware hates the Warden, but because people's ideas of what and who their Warden is are so different. Some Wardens are king or queen, some are dead, some are happy in Amaranthine, some never went there, some are through the looking glass, some are pissed at the Wardens and have gone off wandering, some are going to be involved in the mage revolution. You can't tell a story that would satisfy all those endings and all those ideas, so to try is an exercise in futility that would probably frustrate more people than it satisfies.

It's a good idea, but Bioware might as well bury the DA franchise if they don't resolve the Warden story. It may not be technically feasible to do a cameo, but it has to be resolved in some fashion. i really think what will happen is we'll see a couple of NPC's discussing the Warden's disappearance and his sudden return. That will be it, and we'll never hear about the Warden again aside from other NPC discussion.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

What I'd prefer is a limited choice ability at the beginning of the game, to pick the "alliances" your Warden most favors... so, say, my Mahariel could pick Dalish Elves, mages, King Alistair, and elves in general. (A different Warden might pick Templars, Dwarves, Queen Anora, and the Wardens). Then you'll hear NPCs discuss things related to those choices... like "did you hear, the Warden brought a force of Elves to aid Alistair in the defense of Ferelden" or "The Hero of Ferelden supports the mages, maybe there's more to them than I thought."

I'd also appreciate the ability to play at least one Varric-style legendary exaggeration vignettes as the Warden, a cloaked figured in Warden colors with Griffons on her cloak, whose face is always in shadow and who does outrageous deeds.

[Prince_12]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
I think the Warden's story will never be finished, not because Bioware hates the Warden, but because people's ideas of what and who their Warden is are so different. Some Wardens are king or queen, some are dead, some are happy in Amaranthine, some never went there, some are through the looking glass, some are pissed at the Wardens and have gone off wandering, some are going to be involved in the mage revolution. You can't tell a story that would satisfy all those endings and all those ideas, so to try is an exercise in futility that would probably frustrate more people than it satisfies.

This really annoys me very very much. There's seriously so many endings for the Warden that --as you said-- makes it really hard to satisfie people. I'm really wondering why they even did this in the first place? Not that I'm judging the many different conclusion we can have, but it really bugs me 'cause I don't want the Wardens decisons and "endings" merge into one. Like it doesn't matter if you're Warden went with Morrigan or not, he/she will still end up in Denerim (for example).

I like to have big differences in DA. Like for those who did the Old God baby with Morrigan should get something special, and not restrict that and say "We don't want people to be left out". That's just wrong and stupid IMO. This was one reason why The Exiled Prince DLC didn't feature Nathaniel in it b/c many people never recruited him or played Awekening, despite it being considered canon if your Warden survived the DA:O events.

I'd also appreciate the ability to play at least one Varric-style
legendary exaggeration vignettes as the Warden, a cloaked figured in
Warden colors with Griffons on her cloak, whose face is always in shadow
and who does outrageous deeds.

/supportB)

[Mike3207]

I seem to recall that the Wardens are quite a weak organization at the time of the Fifth Blight. I don't expect there's any pressure for the Hero of Ferelden to do anything the Wardens out of Ferelden want. Their standing in Ferelden is tenuous, so they really can't do a lot about it. I do imagine the Hero is a bit resentful that he wan't informed about the Joining issues. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wardens continue to see more Warden renegades like Anders as long as they refuse to tell people the cost involved in Joining.

Modifié par Mike Smith, 21 septembre 2011 - 05:08 .

[Heidenreich]

Mike Smith wrote...

I seem to recall that the Wardens are quite a weak organization at the time of the Fifth Blight. I don't expect there's any pressure for the Hero of Ferelden to do anything the Wardens out of Ferelden want. Their standing in Ferelden is tenuous, so they really can't do a lot about it. I do imagine the Hero is a bit resentful that he wan't informed about the Joining issues. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wardens continue to see more Warden renegades like Anders as long as they refuse to tell people the cost involved in Joining.

The Wardens were a quite week organization in FERELDEN. They've held a consistant presence within Orlais and The Anderfels. They're.. less strong, but by no means weak in The Free Marches and Tevinter. We dont know much about Nivarra and Rivain when it comes to GW'ding, and as obvious, we have no idea at all if there is any kind of presence in Seharon.


There's just.. not nearly as many of them as there should/could be ;p

[Knight of Dane]

I think the wardens are everywhere that Darkspawn threaten mankind, that is to say; as far as the deep roads go.