Aller au contenu

Photo

Deus Ex: Human Revolution Ending


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
83 réponses à ce sujet

#26
Costin_Razvan

Costin_Razvan
  • Members
  • 7 010 messages

TobiTobsen wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

But I'm missing a ending where I can reveal the Illuminati without throwing humanity back into the dark ages and instill fear of technology into the heads of the people.


How does Darrow's choice relate to that? I get what Jensen says but that's not what the choice is about.

The choice only affects augmentation technology.


You're telling the world that there is a organisation that is controlling them since who knows when with technology and their scientific research. They are toying with the world.
That could lead to a little bit of anti technology paranoia. That was at least my impression. *shrug*


Or it could lead to humanity finally growing a bloody spine instead of just allowing unhindered and unregulated progress. The Humanity Front was just a farce led by the Illuminati. The point of that choice wasn't so much anti-tech as it was for humanity to finally realize that we can't just **** around with everything in this world and there'd be no consquences to that.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:13 .


#27
Mr.House

Mr.House
  • Members
  • 23 338 messages
I went with David, augmentations are the future, sure there should be regulations but who? The Illuminati and bigots that will keep back advancement? David might be a dick sometimes and he might have lied but he has humanity in his heart and cares for going forward. If augmentation with Jensen's dna that makes it more safer then yes I'm all for it, also blaming humanity front is not really that much of a lie to begin with, you are just covering up majority of the truth.

Go David! Down with the Illuminati!

#28
billy the squid

billy the squid
  • Members
  • 4 669 messages
I did approve of the fact that the endings do not lead to any utopian outcome.

Initailly I was torn between Sartif's and the Illuminati's paths. I leant towards Sarif, over the Illuminati as ingenuity should not be stagnated and stiffled, by being arbitrarily deemed dangerous or contoversial. Whilst, some moralities and ethics may be sacrificed, the end seems to justify the means.

Whilst I did approve of the Illuminati's path,and did consider choosing it, the need for some freedoms to be sacrificed is necessary. Yet, trusting the Illuminati to have control over millions, enforced via a kill switch always has the inherent risk of corruption or division in ideological stance between the members. Throughout history those who have secured dominance in society have been as corrupt and self interested as the rest of us.

#29
Mr.House

Mr.House
  • Members
  • 23 338 messages

Ringo12 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I think he was referring to the self-destruct option, which is the fourth ending.


Blah yea I got all four. Walk down the short hall. Like I said I reloaded and saw all the endings. Which makes the ending feel cheap : /

Don't mind Ringo guys, he finds anything that's not TW2 cheap :P

#30
Augustei

Augustei
  • Members
  • 3 923 messages
I ended up picking Darrows option and letting the world know what happened - What they choose to do with that knowledge is up to them.
So many more people picked David Sarif then i'd have thought.

#31
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

billy the squid wrote...
Whilst I did approve of the Illuminati's path,and did consider choosing it, the need for some freedoms to be sacrificed is necessary. Yet, trusting the Illuminati to have control over millions, enforced via a kill switch always has the inherent risk of corruption or division in ideological stance between the members. Throughout history those who have secured dominance in society have been as corrupt and self interested as the rest of us.


Indeed, the question of Quis custodiet ipsos custodes will remain unanswered. No ending is even close to being optimal.

But I'd rather trust the Illuminati (it's really only one guy, Bob Page, that goes out of control), than corporations, with humanity's future. And I'd rather have augmentations regulated and progress guided, then left to get out of control.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:30 .


#32
TobiTobsen

TobiTobsen
  • Members
  • 3 297 messages

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Or it could lead to humanity finally growing a bloody spine instead of just allowing unhindered and unregulated progress. The Humanity Front was just a farce led by the Illuminati. The point of that choice wasn't so much anti-tech as it was for humanity to finally realize that we can't just **** around with everything in this world and there'd be no consquences to that.



Consequences that were initiated by the jealous old man whose heavily anti augmentic "truth" you're told to broadcast into the world. Sarif is at the verge to master the problems of augmentations with Jensens DNA. There is really no need to bash it like Darrow wants you to do it, imo.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:30 .


#33
adneate

adneate
  • Members
  • 2 970 messages

XxDeonxX wrote...
So many more people picked David Sarif then i'd have thought.


I don't find it surprising most people here live in the West, and likely most are in North America. We have a strong cultural legacy of entrepreneurs, and David Sarif is very much a futuristic Henry Ford or Steve Wozniak. People seens as the architects of modern life while the Government is seen as a nuisance or this.

#34
Costin_Razvan

Costin_Razvan
  • Members
  • 7 010 messages

Sarif is at the verge to master the problems of augmentations with Jensens DNA. There is really no need to bash it like Darrow wants you to do it, imo.


I'm to trust the future of humanity to a CEO? No way.

#35
Rockworm503

Rockworm503
  • Members
  • 7 519 messages

Mr.House wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I think he was referring to the self-destruct option, which is the fourth ending.


Blah yea I got all four. Walk down the short hall. Like I said I reloaded and saw all the endings. Which makes the ending feel cheap : /

Don't mind Ringo guys, he finds anything that's not TW2 cheap :P


I didn't know Tina Fey was in TW2.

#36
Chuvvy

Chuvvy
  • Members
  • 9 686 messages
I've done all of them. But my favorites are Sarif and the Suicide.

#37
billy the squid

billy the squid
  • Members
  • 4 669 messages

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
Whilst I did approve of the Illuminati's path,and did consider choosing it, the need for some freedoms to be sacrificed is necessary. Yet, trusting the Illuminati to have control over millions, enforced via a kill switch always has the inherent risk of corruption or division in ideological stance between the members. Throughout history those who have secured dominance in society have been as corrupt and self interested as the rest of us.


Indeed, the question of Quis custodiet ipsos custodes will remain unanswered. No ending is even close to being optimal.

But I'd rather trust the Illuminati (it's really only one guy, Bob Page, that goes out of control), than corporations, with humanity's future. And I'd rather have augmentations regulated and progress guided, then left to get out of control.  


I rather enjoy Latin, reminds me of many of the legal maxims I encountered.

Yet, without that foreknowledge of the Illuminati, and based on the knowledge of history and the events within Deus Ex, I wasn't sure if the Illuminati could indeed be trusted.

I have no illusions about Sarif, his desire is to spread augmentation technology and without risk of rejection via experimentation without Jensens knowledge into his DNA, breaches so many ethical and moral boundaries, yet these are a remnant of older times.

Yet, how that advancement is funded highlights the sacrifices required on the archaic concepts of human morality and right and wrong. Scientific and technological research is funded via the sale of military equipment and technological dominance to ensure continued advancement due to those profits. Hopefully in this future, Government has some influence, to create some legislative framework, but not stifle ingenuity. Or that Corporations take the place of nation states, citizens of a country become citizens of a company. Deus Ex itself already notes that the lines are becoming blurred, between the two. Whilst, corporations have not replaced nations they form a binding force, where people are defined by who they work for rather than were they live.

The issue is that Governents pander to the lowest common denominator in many cases, what is popular is not always right, nor is it beneficial to others, enforced by social mores which echo throughout legislative bodies, which reflect those poular opinions no matter how ignorant they may be. I can see how laissiez faire style economic regulation can be dangerous, yet those industries who have suffered such collapses seem to be found more in the intangible sectors, not sciences and technology, which seem to be hindered as much as helped by governmental controls.

The Illuminati option certainly remained tempting for me, certainly as they are not a govermental organisation with all the inherent problems, but even Sarif himself has no complete dominance, there other organisations and legislative bodies to contend with, The Illuminati don't seem to have such checks, in some cases they control them. But I see the choice more as the ends justifying the means, by removing ethical restictions towards augmentation technology and science, rather than ensuring a single corporation becomes dominant..

Modifié par billy the squid, 12 septembre 2011 - 04:25 .


#38
Augustei

Augustei
  • Members
  • 3 923 messages
Im with Costin. Besides the fact that David Sarif is not the only one relyed apon to overlook this evolution. With multiple Organisations involved (Mainly TYM and Sarif though) things will grow out of control.. Especially with nobody to keep these CEO's truely in check

Also Not really on topic but,
One thing that confused me about Dues Ex.. Mainly the novel thats coming out or came out.. And its mentioned in the game as well is the Australian civil war. Since Australia found one of the last oil reserves and there was a dispute over what to do with it.. With the Northern Territory wanting to sell its rights to china. And South and Western Australia wanting to keep it. Thing is Northern Territory has no government besides the federal government.. And since they essentially control our millitary I dont see how a civil war could come about.

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 12 septembre 2011 - 04:33 .


#39
blothulfur

blothulfur
  • Members
  • 2 015 messages
So the foetus at the end of the augmentation ending, is that J.C Denton?

#40
billy the squid

billy the squid
  • Members
  • 4 669 messages

XxDeonxX wrote...

Not really on topic but,
One thing that confused me about Dues Ex.. Mainly the novel thats coming out or came out.. And its mentioned in the game as well is the Australian civil war. Since Australia found one of the last oil reserves and there was a dispute over what to do with it.. With the Northern Territory wanting to sell its rights to china. And South and Western Australia wanting to keep it. Thing is Northern Territory has no government besides the federal government.. And since they essentially control our millitary I dont see how a civil war could come about.


Corporate interests and funding maybe?

#41
Augustei

Augustei
  • Members
  • 3 923 messages

billy the squid wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Not really on topic but,
One thing that confused me about Dues Ex.. Mainly the novel thats coming out or came out.. And its mentioned in the game as well is the Australian civil war. Since Australia found one of the last oil reserves and there was a dispute over what to do with it.. With the Northern Territory wanting to sell its rights to china. And South and Western Australia wanting to keep it. Thing is Northern Territory has no government besides the federal government.. And since they essentially control our millitary I dont see how a civil war could come about.


Corporate interests and funding maybe?


I guess, hiring mercenary armies to fight in it like was said. But it would be the corporate interests of the companies within Australia  since dont they want to hold onto it and use it within Australia. Whereas the corporate interests and Government interests of china would be their opposition. Who have the second biggest economy in the world.. And the support of the Australian Millitary and Federal Government as well... Its going to be a real one sided battle lol
No point writing a novel about it if one side is pretty much guarenteed victory..

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 12 septembre 2011 - 04:41 .


#42
naledgeborn

naledgeborn
  • Members
  • 3 964 messages
Beat it last night. I picked Darrow's. Still knocked him out after his little speech.

People in general are dumb, but this isn't 900 AD where popular consensus is that the world is flat. The people deserve to know the truth. It's only then that we can empower ourselves and together learn how to take that evolutionary leap forward. If people had more regulation over their governments and in turn governments had more regulation on big business the world's ills would be significantly diminished. What can I say? I'm an idealist at heart.

But I digress. The best ending seems like the suicide from a narrative standpoint however. Three more playthroughs to go I guess. SMH @ the people who reloaded.

#43
billy the squid

billy the squid
  • Members
  • 4 669 messages

XxDeonxX wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Not really on topic but,
One thing that confused me about Dues Ex.. Mainly the novel thats coming out or came out.. And its mentioned in the game as well is the Australian civil war. Since Australia found one of the last oil reserves and there was a dispute over what to do with it.. With the Northern Territory wanting to sell its rights to china. And South and Western Australia wanting to keep it. Thing is Northern Territory has no government besides the federal government.. And since they essentially control our millitary I dont see how a civil war could come about.


Corporate interests and funding maybe?


I guess, hiring mercenary armies to fight in it like was said. But it would be the corporate interests of the companies within Australia  since dont they want to hold onto it and use it within Australia. Whereas the corporate interests and Government interests of china would be their opposition. Who have the second biggest economy in the world.. And the support of the Australian Millitary and Federal Government as well... Its going to be a real one sided battle lol
No point writing a novel about it if one side is pretty much guarenteed victory..


Things are seldom so simple, other national powers against Chinese expansion may be involved or the rest of the Common Wealth states may favour holding such resources and be drawn into the conflict. Whilst companies, usually multinationals, keen to stiffle Chinese corporate expansion would be keen to throw a spanner in the works, even today some multinational companies have an annual turnover the equivalent to that of a small country. Neither could China really be seen as the aggressor in a civil war, in which it has a vested interest with one of the western powers limiting its role to financing proxy soldiers and pawns.

#44
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

billy the squid wrote...
Yet, without that foreknowledge of the Illuminati, and based on the knowledge of history and the events within Deus Ex, I wasn't sure if the Illuminati could indeed be trusted.


I did not have that foreknowledge when I made the choice. I read the wiki and what happened in Deus Ex 1 after finishing the game.

I don't put that much trust into anything, but I shared their sentiment and there was an opportunity to become part of the organization and make sure, to the best of Adam's ability, to make sure it stays on course.

I have no illusions about Sarif, his desire is to spread augmentation technology and without risk of rejection via experimentation without Jensens knowledge into his DNA, breaches so many ethical and moral boundaries, yet these are a remnant of older times.


I personally do not really care about moral and ethical boundaries, that's not what drove me away from that choice.

 Scientific and technological research is funded via the sale of military equipment and technological dominance to ensure continued advancement due to those profits. Hopefully in this future, Government has some influence, to create some legislative framework, but not stifle ingenuity. Or that Corporations take the place of nation states, citizens of a country become citizens of a company. Deus Ex itself already notes that the lines are becoming blurred, between the two. Whilst, corporations have not replaced nations they form a binding force, where people are defined by who they work for rather than were they live.


Governments are declining and corporations are supplanting them. I believe supporting David Sarif could lead to Corporations completely overwhelming governments and states, and replace identity with total consumerism. That's not a future I look kindly to.

I believe, like Alexis de Tocqueville that capitalism is the death of art, and total capitalism is the death of civilization.

The issue is that Governents pander to the lowest common denominator in many cases, what is popular is not always right, nor is it beneficial to others, enforced by social mores which echo throughout legislative bodies, which reflect those poular opinions no matter how ignorant they may be. I can see how laissiez faire style economic regulation can be dangerous, yet those industries who have suffered such collapses seem to be found more in the intangible sectors, not sciences and technology, which seem to be hindered as much as helped by governmental controls.


But if they are profit driven entities, they are going to pander to consumers. They are likely going to produce things that are profitable, even if they are crap, instead of things that are genuinely progressive. The Illuminati have no such problem of appealing to popular opinion, because they are behind the scenes.  

I am not sure laissez faire would work indefinitely, even with service and 3rd sector industries. You still need 1rst and 2nd sector economies, and social and economic pressures would force people to get augments to remain competitive.  And if the riots of Detroits are any indication, the Corporations are not safe. Which risks making PMC to rise, with no laws to check them. We already see Belltower being used by corporates with no checks. 

Interesting food for thought: the UAE is creating a PMC, thanks to the help of Prince the founder of Blackwater, to keep its migrant workers in check.

The Illuminati option certainly remained tempting for me, certainly as they are not a govermental organisation with all the inherent problems, but even Sarif himself has no complete dominance, there other organisations and legislative bodies to contend with, The Illuminati don't seem to have such checks, in some cases they control them. But I see the choice more as the ends justifying the means, by removing ethical restictions towards augmentation technology and science, rather than ensuring a single corporation becomes dominant..


As Thomas Hobbes argued, a Leviathan is needed. Sometimes a Leviathan needs to be as unrestrcited as possible, though of course that is problematic.

I do not think picking Sarif would lead to a monopoly, that's not what I am worried about personally. But increasing the power of corporations and resuting in global oligopolies, is something I worry about.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 septembre 2011 - 05:04 .


#45
Kathleen321

Kathleen321
  • Members
  • 988 messages
Darrows ending. Anyone else upset that you don't really see the effects of your choices? After the game ended I kinda felt like what was the point of that? Maybe Mass Effect has risen my RPG expectations too high.

#46
psychocandy

psychocandy
  • Members
  • 321 messages

blothulfur wrote...

So the foetus at the end of the augmentation ending, is that J.C Denton?


doubtful

he isn't  "born"  till march 2029 and is a clone of paul who was  born in 2018

theres some conjecture that paul maybe from the same baby lab as Jensen

#47
marshalleck

marshalleck
  • Members
  • 15 645 messages
I went with the self-destruct ending. It seemed most in line with my Jensen's approach to problem-solving and ethos, essentially that humanity will have to face their future head on, and the best he could hope for was to clear the way for people to self-determine and make their own decisions as freely as possible from external controls. That and I have to admit that as much as I tried not to metagame, I couldn't help but feel a bit sentimental for the original Deus Ex, and how well the self-destruct ending seemed like it would be a perfect segue into Denton's story, which I am now currently replaying.

Haven't seen the other endings yet. DXHR is excellent, but I am going to let my first playthrough settle in a bit before launching into another.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 septembre 2011 - 11:54 .


#48
marshalleck

marshalleck
  • Members
  • 15 645 messages

Kathleen321 wrote...

Darrows ending. Anyone else upset that you don't really see the effects of your choices? After the game ended I kinda felt like what was the point of that? Maybe Mass Effect has risen my RPG expectations too high.


ROFL? Mass Effect is terrible at showing the result of your decisions. All we've gotten so far are a ****load of email and promises from devs that it will all mean something in the end.

#49
Kathleen321

Kathleen321
  • Members
  • 988 messages

marshalleck wrote...

Kathleen321 wrote...

Darrows ending. Anyone else upset that you don't really see the effects of your choices? After the game ended I kinda felt like what was the point of that? Maybe Mass Effect has risen my RPG expectations too high.


ROFL? Mass Effect is terrible at showing the result of your decisions. All we've gotten so far are a ****load of email and promises from devs that it will all mean something in the end.

lol true true. Still wish I could have interacted with the characters afterwards. :( I'm not flaming this game. I'm not stupid enough to do that. I love Deus Ex. Just wish there was a little more closure at the end. 

#50
-Skorpious-

-Skorpious-
  • Members
  • 3 081 messages
The "Jensen" ending is my personal favorite. One man (or group for that matter) should never wield such supreme authority that they can dictate how humanity ultimately lives or, as the game likes to put it, "evolve" as a species.

People must be free to forge their own path in life as best as possible.