51 réponses à ce sujet

[KyoZ]

Yeah Flemeth does possess her. But the whole plan was Flemeths idea from the beginning, so I believe Flemeth would try and continue it, too.

[Maria Caliban]

SilkyChicken wrote...

I just don't see how any good character could let her walk from that bedroom alive.  She is too great a threat!

Originally, there was an option to attack her, at which point she turned into a bird and flew off. However, they couldn't get the animation right in time for the game to ship.

[Gaspara]

SilkyChicken wrote...

Gaspara wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

But be ready to be overwhelmed by the horde of Morrigan's lovers.

Or those who took the time to appreciate the complex writing bioware did for her character.

Pssh, complexity.  Just more folds and crenellations for demons to get their tentacles in, that's what I say.

hehe

[Reiella]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Actually, it says that someone like her ended up at the Orlesian court. But yeah, I get what you're saying. The whole "Impregnate me and summon one of the old gods" doesn't make a whole lot of sense for any remotely good character, even if you don't end up wanting to kill her.
Even an "evil" character would have to be a complete retard to trust Morrigan.

Just because you don't believe the Chantry's version of history doesn't make you not-good.

[mrao]

Reiella wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Actually, it says that someone like her ended up at the Orlesian court. But yeah, I get what you're saying. The whole "Impregnate me and summon one of the old gods" doesn't make a whole lot of sense for any remotely good character, even if you don't end up wanting to kill her.
Even an "evil" character would have to be a complete retard to trust Morrigan.

Just because you don't believe the Chantry's version of history doesn't make you not-good.

Aren't some of the codex entries written from a chantry perspective? I always assumed the information you get from it to be a little biased.

Talking to Morrigan over the game gives you a sense that she wants ancient forces like the Old Gods to be preserved (thus the old god supposedly being "untainted"). Whether or not people trust her in that regard is entirely up to them.

[Reiella]

mrao wrote...

Aren't some of the codex entries written from a chantry perspective? I always assumed the information you get from it to be a little biased.

Talking to Morrigan over the game gives you a sense that she wants ancient forces like the Old Gods to be preserved (thus the old god supposedly being "untainted"). Whether or not people trust her in that regard is entirely up to them.

Yep, some are even different depending upon your Origin.

[NationalWreck]

sylkwyrm1 wrote...

assuming of course the flemeth herself doesn't return to take her (or someone else) and try again in the next blight, morrigan does say you can't reallt kill her to death

exactly, it could become a cycle, perhaps in the last blight Flemeth tried the same thing and it didn't work. to assure that the old god doesn't come into the world and get possessed by Flemeth or her daughters, you have to kill flemeth, and kill her daughter, morrigan, to break the cycle. If you don't kill morrigan theres a chance flemeth could come back, take her body, and the whole thing starts anew the next time an archdemon appears. a good character would see this.

[kormesios]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Actually, it says that someone like her ended up at the Orlesian court. But yeah, I get what you're saying. The whole "Impregnate me and summon one of the old gods" doesn't make a whole lot of sense for any remotely good character, even if you don't end up wanting to kill her.
Even an "evil" character would have to be a complete retard to trust Morrigan.

It doesn't make much sense of a Maker/Andraste/Chantry following good character.  My city elf was very good, but at best ambivalent about the Chantry--these were not the elf gods--and bringing back an old god was a bit of plus, actually.

As for Morrigan--utterly lacking in empathy for fellow humans, but her bizarre goals didn't seem to include world domination or massive human sacrifice, for fun or profit.  I probably would have been willing to risk the consequences with her raising the kid.  It was my life, Alistair was going to need my help ruling, if things  got out of hand I could have strapped on armor again and done battle.

I ended up not sleeping with her, because of my fears about Flemeth.  It was her idea, and she was (possibly, according to the codex) still floating around somewhere.  Her, I'd worry about stealing the god's body and wreaking true havoc.

[Yakko77]

rumination888 wrote...
And I hope that Bioware doesn't cheapen the Dragon Age experience by turning the old god-child into some kind of "evil" entity. (actually, now that I think about it, Dragon Age 2 could very well have you playing as the child, and its choices would be your choices... hmm...)

On my first play through I  refused Morrigan thinking it some evil plot.  On my second, I still played fairly saintly all the way through but gave Morrigans offer a chance on this play through with similar views as you expressed in mind.  I'm curious as to how it plays out in DA2.

[Riona45]

Reiella wrote...

Just because you don't believe the Chantry's version of history doesn't make you not-good.

I couldn't agree more.

[ArcanistLibram]

The old gods were dragons. Clearly, Morrigan wants to give birth to King Arthur.

[Thor Rand Al]

Nyaore wrote...

Technically an Old God is not a demon, they only become as such when they are corrupted by the Blight. Morrigan claims that the child would not be born with the taint, but quite honestly we can't exactly trust her word on the matter. So whether or not the hypothetical child would have been tainted as well is up in the air.

Frankly though I don't see how she would be a big threat if you refuse her proposal. It's not like she knows the exact method that Flemeth uses to possess her daughters to extend her own life span and can then wait around until the next Blight to try it again. Then again if you gave her Flemeth's grimoire....

True the Old Gods were not corrupt until something happened n I know there's more to the story but can't remember what exactly lol.  As far as the child not having the taint if she was given the child then the father would be one of the Grey Wardens n he has the taint in him.  It may be weak but the baby would have it in him, (would hope its a boy so it be harder for her posses, since Flemmeth had all girls n nothings been mentioned about son's lol). 


There is definitely more to this story with the Grey Warden, Morrigan, the baby n even Flemmeth (like Morrigan says Flemmeth can't be killed).  The problem is having to wait n find out

[SilkyChicken]

Riona45 wrote...

Reiella wrote...

Just because you don't believe the Chantry's version of history doesn't make you not-good.

I couldn't agree more.

My argument against letting Morrigan give birth to an Old God doesn't require a person to believe or disbelieve the chantry.  Bringing that kind of power in to the world is just too dangerous.

Let me put it another way.  If Morrigan had said to me "help me make a 1,000 ft high, invincible golem that may or may not be evil, and over which I would have but dubious control," I would have said no, and done my best to destroy the knowledge of how to craft that golem.  Because something that powerful doesn't need to be evil to cause problems.  What if it sat down one day, and only later realized it destroyed a whole village doing so?  That's what an Old God would be like.

This is why my character would have killed Morrigan, and destroyed her grimoire.

[Maria Caliban]

I'll point out that neither the Chantry, or the dwarven and elven 'religions' would consider the old gods actual gods. In or out of game, we have no idea what's stewing in Morrigan's womb if you pick the Dark Ritual ending.

[Trooper Guy1]

There are many many possibilites considering what is really inside Morrigan, which would throw us toward the question of...where did the darkspawn come from? Did they REALLY originate from the "Old Gods" and yada yada as the Chantry stated?(this would also open up alot of other subjects, but those should be for another thread)

Determining this would determine what exactly is inside of Morrigan if you have a child with her. Is it some Old God? A next candidate for the archdemon? Maybe a 'purebred' Grey Warden(already having tainted blood?) Even the possibility Morrigan just wanted to have a child to try out Flemeth's immortality trick.

Even if you don't do anything with her, she could easily seduce any other Grey Warden if they were foolish enough.

[Taritu]

It's just hard to trust Morrigan, and you also have to trust Flemeth, since she got the plan from Flemeth. So, maybe it will be free of the taint, maybe it won't. And besides, given how sociopathic Morrigan turned out thanks to Flemeth's raising her, I don't like the idea of her raising a god. Really, I wanted to go with it (rather not die, thanks, too hard on Leiliana) but it was the whole "I'll never let anyone else see the child ever" thing that turned me away.



"Nope. Sorry. Sounds like you have something to hide. And I don't trust you. In fact, out of the entire group of my companions you are unquestionably the least trustworthy, even more than the two assassins."

[Serogon]

A comment on the cheating thing: come on, you're doing it to keep yourself and your best friend (errr, maybe) alive. Do you really think Leliana would be angry? Also, according to one of the codex entries, the Old Gods might not be actual gods at all, just REALLY powerful dragons. So, it's not a god-child. It's just an uber-dragon-child. That's, umm, kind of comforting. I guess.

[Walina]

This arguement is pointless because only the author has the answer about Morrian real motive.



Please respect people who can feel betrayed (male or female) and dislike the fact have pawns in the story. That's harder to accept when you just wen through so much and be back stabed like that in the end. Players want to be rewarded for their efort and not being cornered at the of the game just for DAO 2

[Saurel]

Walina wrote...
 Players want to be rewarded for their efort and not being cornered at the of the game just for DAO 2

Its definitely hard if you put a lot of your own personality or creative jucies into the character and spend dozens of hours in the game world as opposed to a game that say takes 10 hours to complete.

[Ravenshrike]

Taritu wrote... And besides, given how sociopathic Morrigan turned out thanks to Flemeth's raising her, I don't like the idea of her raising a god.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

She could easily have lied to you about what the ritual was for or what the long term effects of the ritual were. She could have told you it was a ritual to add protective magics so you would more likely survive the final battle. She could easily have told you that you would conceive a child and that the child would die in place of you. A sociopath, by definition having NO problem with lying, would have no problem with either of these options. While Morrigan constantly evades questions and changes the subject, she rarely if ever lies.

[Ninjaphrog]

Now all I can think off when reading is this:



You choose to knock up Morrigan...ok...got my fill of evil witch of the wilds fruit...time to slay the archdemon and get the heck outta here before Lelianna goes all Bard on my ass...



So you complete the game...alive...and Morrigan escapes with her womb filled with the Maker knows what...



DA:O2 is released...and they've added possibilities to load your old characters who survived the first game(meaning NOT sacrificing themselves), and play them with the exact same gear, and skills, and relations as they ended with..and get a completely different story then a new-to-DAO player who starts a new char in DAO2...



And here's what I dread if that should happen, since after this I know Bioware will do something they cannot control....



Bugs...glitches...missing stuff...tons of technical support posts demanding a solution to a problem Bioware never expected cause they're lazy..Just like it is right now....Full of bugs and mistakes...



I'd say end decently instead of trying to save an already dropped china vase and make things worse then better...



Oh and by the way...



Current total miss spellings located so far: 26............................

[Akka le Vil]

Gaspara wrote...

Or those who took the time to appreciate the complex writing bioware did for her character.

How it is even relevant ?
Wishing to kill a character has nothing to do with it being well written or complex. A complex, well-written bastard can still be very deserving of death (and even not-so-complete-bastards, especially depending on the points of view).

Edit : oh it's you again... No wonder.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 22 novembre 2009 - 08:50 .

[Akka le Vil]

SilkyChicken wrote...

My argument against letting Morrigan give birth to an Old God doesn't require a person to believe or disbelieve the chantry.  Bringing that kind of power in to the world is just too dangerous.

Let me put it another way.  If Morrigan had said to me "help me make a 1,000 ft high, invincible golem that may or may not be evil, and over which I would have but dubious control," I would have said no, and done my best to destroy the knowledge of how to craft that golem.  Because something that powerful doesn't need to be evil to cause problems.  What if it sat down one day, and only later realized it destroyed a whole village doing so?  That's what an Old God would be like.

This is why my character would have killed Morrigan, and destroyed her grimoire.

This. Pretty obvious from my point of view.

You can additionnally take into account that Morrigan has repeatedly shown that, despite not being overtly "evil", she doesn't think nor care about the consequences, so is one of the worst kind of person to actually trust with such power.

Walina wrote...

This arguement is pointless because only the author has the answer about Morrian real motive.

Doesn't change anything.
It's even better, in fact. With a definite, hindsight 10/10 answer, the whole point would be warped. The whole dilemma comes precisely from the fact that Morrigan is a mixed bag, that we can't be sure about what she
wants, what she knows, where she's right or wrong and what could happen.And that we are supposed to make a choice from here.

If you had the definite answer, it would be much less of a choice, and much less interesting

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 22 novembre 2009 - 09:06 .

[Gaspara]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Gaspara wrote...

Or those who took the time to appreciate the complex writing bioware did for her character.

How it is even relevant ?
Wishing to kill a character has nothing to do with it being well written or complex. A complex, well-written bastard can still be very deserving of death (and even not-so-complete-bastards, especially depending on the points of view).

Edit : oh it's you again... No wonder.

It has the same relevance as your statement - which is to say none - it is simply an honest counter argument to a bit of nonsense.

It is just as silly to suggest that liking the writing of the character means you do not react strongly to them as it is to suggest (as you did) that not wanting to kill the character is simply based on mindless fanboyism.

Modifié par Gaspara, 22 novembre 2009 - 08:55 .

[EntreriSeraph]

frokenscheim wrote...

I thought one of DA's best qualities is the lack of hard and fast morality. And I don't think she's that much of a threat, if you refuse her offer. Given the typical frequency of blights, she won't get another chance for centuries. Also the Old God may not be "evil", the only info anyone has on them is from very old and possibly very inaccurate sources. And who's to say every thinking, feeling creature isn't just a fade spirit that's found it's way into the corporeal world?

This is the rationale I used when making my decision to use the baby to absorb the old god. Morrigan may be cunning...but she's got a soft spot for the warden that I think is very real :/

I have to say, I always like to play a game the first time by sticking to my decisions - If i say or do something that I later regret, I try to live with it..

But the sequence of events that take place from the landsmeet through to the march north... I like the way you put it, that there's not often a hard, fast moral choice. That's what made me enjoy the ending that much more. I'm sure we all have regrets in life, this story is no different man i loved this game.