370 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

1136342t54 wrote...

You do know that Ashley can wear heavier armor right?

Maybe.  That hasn't been 100% confirmed yet.  When it has been, with screen shots, I will shut my ass up.

Also even light armor has kinetic barriers, combat weave capable of stopping mass accelerator rounds and some ceramic plates. The armor she is wearing is no more tight than the light armor in ME1.

And yet she's got sexycakes hair in her eyes, perfect makeup, and an outfit that includes a low neckline and thigh-high boots.

Again, I'll stop complaining about it if I see the rumored heavy armor myself.  Hell, I'll shut up if her personality is still intact and all changes to her overall character are largely superficial.  However, since we don't have confirmation of either of these two things, I'm going to b*tch and moan about how horny teenage boys have ruined everything.

The outfit actually looks nice, at least.  It's not as bad as it could be.  But the issue isn't the outfit itself--it's the tiresome cliché that all women in videogames must be hot.

As there are lots of ugly dudes in videogames, that is not fair.

EDIT: SUPPLEMENTARY EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 14 septembre 2011 - 11:00 .

[Collider]

I agree with Cheez.

[Ziggy]

100k wrote...

Em23 wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Em23 wrote...

One reason I like bioware games because of the depth of their characters, who aren't just caricatures, but who have faults and quirks and thereby seem more real.
Bioware is taking the easy way out and sexing everyone up unimaginatively so their personalities come second, which makes for a much more superficial and cheap game. Those sort of games have their place, granted, but I used to count on bioware for more.

I have to respond to this since it is almost completely wrong.

Lets take Miranda for instance. Her entire life pretty much presents her as a hard, logical and strong woman who will use anything even her looks as a way to get what she wants. Her sexualization is a tool and a result of something her father did who incidentally she hates. Her figure is a part of who she is but isn't necessarily a good part to her. Bioware puts the characters and personality first always.

I guess it's a bit hard to argue, I found myself rolling my eyes a lot at her "I'm so perfect it hurts" thing. I just found all the me2 characters tried too hard to be "badass" and "cool" and "sexy" that they didnt seem as real as the me1 characters. But I get that that is a somewhat subjective view.

Miranda knows that she's not perfect, and openly admits it several times. In LOTSB we find out that she's actually infertile -- an issue that many women today struggle with. Did you roll your eyes at that "perfection"?

Yeah, that's right, I totally find infirtility funny /sarcasm. Not saying you can't like her, but I didn't find her interesting at all. Plus all those ass shots, the high heels and the catsuit armour, made it all seem a bit gratuitus and hard to take seriously.

[KawaiiKatie]

jreezy wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

The Ashley I knew would have never gone into combat wearing latex and high-heeled boots, or attemtped to aim a weapon with her hair in her face.

She's never had her hair in her face before for you to see so you can't possibly know that. Still not explaining the personality change.

Exactly. She never had her hair in her face before. She always kept it in a bun, probably so she could do her job!

Because heavy armor is the only type of protection that a soldier can wear right?

In Mass Effect? Yeah. Ashley is a Soldier class. Which means that she has no biotics, no tech powers, nothing except standard kinectic sheilds to protect her. There's a reason that the Soldier class can gain training in heavy armour while the biotic and tech classes can't.

[1136342t54_]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Maybe.  That hasn't been 100% confirmed yet.  When it has been, with screen shots, I will shut my ass up.

Never told you to shut up.

And yet she's got sexycakes hair in her eyes, perfect makeup, and an outfit that includes a low neckline and thigh-high boots.

And? Since I'm assuming its a choice of light armor and heavy armor I'm going to keep on assuming that instead of ignoring that likelihood.

Again, I'll stop complaining about it if I see the rumored heavy armor myself.  Hell, I'll shut up if her personality is still intact and all changes to her overall character are largely superficial.  However, since we don't have confirmation of either of these two things, I'm going to b*tch and moan about how horny teenage boys have ruined everything.

I'm glad you admit to ****ing and moaning. If you actually cared about the character then you would actually try and construct a proper argument instead of resorting to that and blaming teenagers.

Also what evidence you have that her personality will change at all? It hasn't change in the first 2 games even Garrus's personality hasn't changed too much. He just got a bit more darker.

The outfit actually looks nice, at least.  It's not as bad as it could be.  But the issue isn't the outfit itself--it's the tiresome cliché that all women in videogames must be hot.

By that statement I assume you disliked Ashley in ME1 huh? Plenty of people saw her as attractive and pretty hot even me. Also not all women in videogames are necessarily hot.

As there are lots of ugly dudes in videogames, that is not fair.

Most of those ugly dudes are very very buff. Gears of War pretty much is a poster child of that cliche.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 14 septembre 2011 - 11:02 .

[Iakus]

100k wrote...


Ash's outfit doesn't define her-- no more than Miranda's outfit defines her.

If all you see when you walk into Miranda's office is dat ass, and you refuse to look past dat ass, then you are objectifying her.

If all you see when you walk into Samara's room is dem tittas, and you refuse to look past dem tittas, then you are objectifying her.

The only difference between your style of objectification and that of, say, a 14 year old boy, is that he will get horny at the sight of dat ass, while you will be annoyed.

Actually, with Bioware's new obsession with "iconic looks", outfits do define a character.  Or at least, reflect them to an extent.  To that extent, Ash's look should reflect her personality and role.

Looks at the ME2 characters.  Which ones most closely resemble Ash's mentality and combat style?  The "pure warriors"?  I would say those would be Grunt, Zaeed, and to an extent Garrus (since he seems to have largely abandoned his tech skills from ME1)  All these characters are lethal fighters, "straight up punchers" uncompromising warriors.  And they all wear armor.  Not painted on spandex.  Not eye candy outfits.  Armor that looks halfway funuctional.  Or would be if they had all the parts and were in good repair.


For Ash, the best case scenerio I can think of is she's ME3's Aveline.  As a refugee from Lothering, Aveline started out without armor, but quickly got some once the prologue ended.  Maybe Ash is the same way.  Maybe.  But I'm not counting on it.

At this point I'm actually glad there's no KOTOR 3 in the works.  I shudder to think about what would happen to Bastila.

[AdmiralCheez]

1136342t54 wrote...

Never told you to shut up.

But you used "heavy armor" as a point in your favor.  As it has not been confirmed, I'm allowed to call you out on it.  You can make fun of me for it when the screenshots come raining in.

And? Since I'm assuming its a choice of light armor and heavy armor I'm going to keep on assuming that instead of ignoring that likelihood.

For the sake of argument, assume it's not.  Since, you know, no confirmation.  What if this really is all we get?

I'm glad you admit to ****ing and moaning. If you actually cared about the character then you would actually try and construct a proper argument instead of resorting to that and blaming teenagers.

I do care about the character, hence my b*tching.  Additionally, you don't honestly believe that I actually blame teenage boys, do you?

Also what evidence you have that her personality will change at all? It hasn't change in the first 2 games even Garrus's personality hasn't changed too much. He just got a bit more darker.

Liara.

By that statement I assume you disliked Ashley in ME1 huh? Plenty of people saw her as attractive and pretty hot even me. Also not all women in videogames are necessarily hot.

Ash is actually one of my favorite female game characters of all time.

Most of those ugly dudes are very very buff. Gears of War pretty much is a poster child of that cliche.

So either buff or pretty.  See, it's a problem for guys, too!

[Iakus]

[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

And yet she's got sexycakes hair in her eyes, perfect makeup, and an outfit that includes a low neckline and thigh-high boots.

Again, I'll stop complaining about it if I see the rumored heavy armor myself.  Hell, I'll shut up if her personality is still intact and all changes to her overall character are largely superficial.  However, since we don't have confirmation of either of these two things, I'm going to b*tch and moan about how horny teenage boys have ruined everything.[/quote]

Indeed. Though if her personality's intact, she'd be b*tching and moaning about having to go into combat looking like that. I can forgive them in that case 

[quote]
The outfit actually looks nice, at least.  It's not as bad as it could be.  But the issue isn't the outfit itself--it's the tiresome cliché that all women in videogames must be hot.[/quote]

[/quote]

Very much this.  Ash in ME1 was attractive while looking fairly normal.  When did normal become bad?

[1136342t54_]

iakus wrote...

Actually, with Bioware's new obsession with "iconic looks", outfits do define a character.  Or at least, reflect them to an extent.  To that extent, Ash's look should reflect her personality and role.

Looks at the ME2 characters.  Which ones most closely resemble Ash's mentality and combat style?  The "pure warriors"?  I would say those would be Grunt, Zaeed, and to an extent Garrus (since he seems to have largely abandoned his tech skills from ME1)  All these characters are lethal fighters, "straight up punchers" uncompromising warriors.  And they all wear armor.  Not painted on spandex.  Not eye candy outfits.  Armor that looks halfway funuctional.  Or would be if they had all the parts and were in good repair.

Ashley seems to be the standard tank like the others and I doubt it would change at all especially since Ashley will be getting different armor.

For Ash, the best case scenerio I can think of is she's ME3's Aveline.  As a refugee from Lothering, Aveline started out without armor, but quickly got some once the prologue ended.  Maybe Ash is the same way.  Maybe.  But I'm not counting on it.

Why not? Ashley could easily be getting armor and I believe there was a few twitter posts discussing that. Ashley is a soldier and being a tank is a part of her class. Hell during the first part of the game that we were shown no one really had full armor on. Ashley's armor could easily just be her clothes that she wear on the ship and will actually use heavier armor similar to Vasir when she is on ground missions. Or its just a matter of choice.

I don't like the hair entirely but its possible that Ash probably didn't care much about tying up her hair since she isn't in the Alliance anymore. Hell I don't have much of a problem with that since she would be no less impaired than Zaeed since it appears he is blind in one eye.

At this point I'm actually glad there's no KOTOR 3 in the works.  I shudder to think about what would happen to Bastila.

She would likely look like Satele Shan from the Old Republic trailers.

[Ziggy]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Most of those ugly dudes are very very buff. Gears of War pretty much is a poster child of that cliche.

So either buff or pretty.  See, it's a problem for guys, too!

Yes!
The men must be seriously buff, and the women sexed up.
It's a problem particularly potent in the video game industry. Women can be hot in proper armour and guys can be hot without muscles popping out everywhere. Hotter imo.

edit: maybe because they are animated in creating them they exaggerate all the things that are good in moderation thinking it'll make them better.
Eh, just thinking aloud now.

Modifié par Em23, 14 septembre 2011 - 11:22 .

[1136342t54_]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
But you used "heavy armor" as a point in your favor.  As it has not been confirmed, I'm allowed to call you out on it.  You can make fun of me for it when the screenshots come raining in.

And? Have I attempted to make fun of you?

For the sake of argument, assume it's not.  Since, you know, no confirmation.  What if this really is all we get?

If I'm going to make that assumption then yes I would be a little annoyed but Ashleys personality is likely not going to change much. Also I would say she will be getting heavier armor simply because Bioware actually decided on giving Miranda practical armor.

I do care about the character, hence my b*tching.  Additionally, you don't honestly believe that I actually blame teenage boys, do you?

Blaming teenagers are an exaggeration but ****ing isn't the best way to get your point across. Even if you admit to it you still come across as an annoying loud mouth ass. That is not the best way to get your point across.

Liara.

An example of someones personality changing for the better. Liara was naive in ME1 and it would be pointless for her not to change. If she didn't change after fighting and killing people I would think something was wrong. Ashley likely didn't change much.  Maybe she became a bit more ruthless as a spectre?

Ash is actually one of my favorite female game characters of all time.

The point is that just because a character is attractive doesn't mean its bad.

So either buff or pretty.  See, it's a problem for guys, too!

Thats my point. You seem to imply that guys had it better. If not then my mistake.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 14 septembre 2011 - 11:23 .

[ZenJestr]

I'm not about to read through 12 pages so sorry if this has been said before buuuut...

I think Ash is wearing that casual attire on Earth (as seen in the demo in E3) because she was in Shep's trial. Shep is in casual attire as well.

Casey Hudson also said that she has armor as well, so she'll probably keep half her weave out of her face when in combat with legit armor.

[1136342t54_]

ZenJestr wrote...

I'm not about to read through 12 pages so sorry if this has been said before buuuut...

I think Ash is wearing that casual attire on Earth (as seen in the demo in E3) because she was in Shep's trial. Shep is in casual attire as well.

Casey Hudson also said that she has armor as well, so she'll probably keep half her weave out of her face when in combat with legit armor.

This/

[Ziggy]

ZenJestr wrote...

I'm not about to read through 12 pages so sorry if this has been said before buuuut...

I think Ash is wearing that casual attire on Earth (as seen in the demo in E3) because she was in Shep's trial. Shep is in casual attire as well.

Casey Hudson also said that she has armor as well, so she'll probably keep half her weave out of her face when in combat with legit armor.

I will be totally appeased if that is the case. If this is her thinking it's casual dress day because of sheps trial but was surprised by the reaper attack and she has proper combat outfit (incl. hair style not in eyes) then it's ok by me.

Modifié par Em23, 14 septembre 2011 - 11:27 .

[jeweledleah]

the argument about Ashley just wearing her off duty clothes doesn't jibe. why? because since then we saw the images of alternate appearance pack from collector's edition and guess what? Ashley is wearing recolor of her demo outfit while Kaidan and Vega are wearing armor.

also.

practical people tend to go for the best, strongest protection they can find, afford and use. best weapons. best technology. you want to have an edge over people you'll be fighting.

again, comparing Kaidan and Ashley. they are supposed to be mirrors of each other. same duties. same spectre status. if Ashley's armor is the best, how come Kaidan is not wearing it? and then of course there's Shepard him/herself. wearing armor. like a full out armor.

how can you insist that Ashley's new look is anything other then attempt to sexualize her? is beyond me.

[Ziggy]

jeweledleah wrote...

the argument about Ashley just wearing her off duty clothes doesn't jibe. why? because since then we saw the images of alternate appearance pack from collector's edition and guess what? Ashley is wearing recolor of her demo outfit while Kaidan and Vega are wearing armor.

also.

practical people tend to go for the best, strongest protection they can find, afford and use. best weapons. best technology. you want to have an edge over people you'll be fighting.

again, comparing Kaidan and Ashley. they are supposed to be mirrors of each other. same duties. same spectre status. if Ashley's armor is the best, how come Kaidan is not wearing it? and then of course there's Shepard him/herself. wearing armor. like a full out armor.

how can you insist that Ashley's new look is anything other then attempt to sexualize her? is beyond me.

This I fear is the truth.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Em23 wrote...

All this sexualisation of female characters with stupid catsuit 'armour' and impractical hair styles belongs in a different game.

You think they'd take a hint on how the most popular female character in the series is the least sexualized.

[1136342t54_]

jeweledleah wrote...

the argument about Ashley just wearing her off duty clothes doesn't jibe. why? because since then we saw the images of alternate appearance pack from collector's edition and guess what? Ashley is wearing recolor of her demo outfit while Kaidan and Vega are wearing armor.

They never showed Kaidan during the combat video. For all we know he was at the trial to and was just wearing his non combat or light armor clothing to appear less imposing.

practical people tend to go for the best, strongest protection they can find, afford and use. best weapons. best technology. you want to have an edge over people you'll be fighting.

True thats why sometimes I gave Ashley light armor in ME1 since I would find Light armor that would have superior Kinetic barriers then Heavy armor.

again, comparing Kaidan and Ashley. they are supposed to be mirrors of each other. same duties. same spectre status. if Ashley's armor is the best, how come Kaidan is not wearing it? and then of course there's Shepard him/herself. wearing armor. like a full out armor.

You see Kaidan wearing armor in pics not gameplay. Like I said before they never showed Kaidan in gameplay at all. They only showed Ashley and it was around the time of the trial.

how can you insist that Ashley's new look is anything other then attempt to sexualize her? is beyond me.

Which part the armor or the hair? The armor can easily be explained away.

[Iakus]

1136342t54 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
practical people tend to go for the best, strongest protection they can find, afford and use. best weapons. best technology. you want to have an edge over people you'll be fighting.

True thats why sometimes I gave Ashley light armor in ME1 since I would find Light armor that would have superior Kinetic barriers then Heavy armor.

So in the reality where Kaidan's dead, why isn't Ash wearing the armor Kaidan wore?  IS all that bulk really just for for IV nutrients and migraine meds?

again, comparing Kaidan and Ashley. they are supposed to be mirrors of each other. same duties. same spectre status. if Ashley's armor is the best, how come Kaidan is not wearing it? and then of course there's Shepard him/herself. wearing armor. like a full out armor.

You see Kaidan wearing armor in pics not gameplay. Like I said before they never showed Kaidan in gameplay at all. They only showed Ashley and it was around the time of the trial.

And we have not seen Ash in armor anywhere.  At all, Even in pics with Kaidan in armor, she's wearing that same blue outfit.  It would be so easy to just say "Ash wears armor similar to Kaidan's".

Modifié par iakus, 14 septembre 2011 - 11:39 .

[1136342t54_]

iakus wrote...

So in the reality where Kaidan's dead, why isn't Ash wearing the armor Kaidan wore?  IS all that bulk really just for for IV nutrients and migraine meds?

I would think that is class specific armor. Sentinels are being played out as the better Tanks in this game. Spectre armor is very unique and I would probably expect Ashley to wear armor somewhat similar to VS as one of her choices.

And we have not seen Ash in armor anywhere.  At all, Even in pics with Kaidan in armor, she's wearing that same blue outfit.  It would be so easy to just say "Ash wears armor similar to Kaidan's".

Instead they say Ash wears armor. They show Kaidan in armor but it is mostly promotional and we haven't seen him in the video in which they are rescuing Shepard. It is still likely that both Ashley and Kaidan were present at the trial in light armor or they both didn't deam it necessary to use their heaviest armor when they are just throwing out some covering for a brief minute so that Shepard can get on the Normandy.

[lovgreno]

I can't blame BioWare too much for wanting to include sexy to sell better though. Heck, I even like it often. But even if they do give people decent (sexy) armour they still can give Ashley, Jacob, Kaidan, Legion etc sexy outfits of the less armoured look (wich some of us think is less sexy but taste is different) that they wear out of combat. Some tight suit and free hair for Ashley while calibrating or something on board, sure, no problem.

But in combat she is a tank and tanks use the heavy armour. Ashley is a pro, not someone who gives a damn if you think she should show a cleavage in a fight.

But, rule of cool and rule of sexy is no doubt important in the game buisness. Even so a game also needs something that makes it different from other products. I think somewhat believable characters are a way for BioWare to do this. In Ashleys case I think this means a professional, no nonsense tough gal frontline soldier, wich kind of makes cleavage and hair in her eyes akward.

[1136342t54_]

Meh whatever I'm just going to wait until we get closer to Mass Effect 3 and see if Ash is wearing a different armor. That is what I advise for the rest of you.

[AdmiralCheez]

1136342t54 wrote...

And? Have I attempted to make fun of you?

Should you ever wish to, the offer is extended.

If I'm going to make that assumption then yes I would be a little annoyed but Ashleys personality is likely not going to change much. Also I would say she will be getting heavier armor simply because Bioware actually decided on giving Miranda practical armor.

And like I said so many times, Ash in full combat armor would be awesome.  But still, there's no guarantee.  What I'm doing here is assuming the worst case scenario.  If I'm wrong, then yay!  Good times in ME3.

Blaming teenagers are an exaggeration but ****ing isn't the best way to get your point across. Even if you admit to it you still come across as an annoying loud mouth ass. That is not the best way to get your point across.

Then what do you suggest?  As far as I know, the forums are pretty much the only resource people have if they want to impact game design decisions.  If I b*tch loud enough and get enough people to b*tch with me, I may be able to impose my will upon the mighty Bioware.

BIOWARE!  HEY BIOWARE!  I'M IMPOSING MY WILL ON YOU!

*is totally not delusional or acting entitled*

As for the ass comment...  I get that a lot.  Must be my stunning looks, superior intellect, and charming personality makin' y'all jealous.

An example of someones personality changing for the better. Liara was naive in ME1 and it would be pointless for her not to change. If she didn't change after fighting and killing people I would think something was wrong. Ashley likely didn't change much.  Maybe she became a bit more ruthless as a spectre?

See, there's character development and there's WTF WRITERS.  Dramatic and sudden changes in a character's personality that have little context are the latter.  I did expect Liara to grow, but suddenly she's a white collar mobster?  Lol wut.  Thankfully, LotSB "rescued" her character, providing both context and character development.  It made Psycho!Liara make sense, then gave her an opportunity to grow into a much stronger (and less crazy) individual.

I admit that Kaidan/Ashley isn't going to be the exact same person we knew on ME1.  In fact, it's silly to think they will be.  But that person does not have to be a complete rewrite of their character.  It would be a strong disservice to change the essence of who they are.  And hell, maybe the outfit doesn't.  But if it's a sign of what to come...  Well, sh*t.  There goes one of my favorite squadmates.

The point is that just because a character is attractive doesn't mean its bad.

WELL DUH.  But they don't have to be ridiculously oversexed to be good, either.

Thats my point. You were implying that guys had it better.

They might.  After all, the industry still assumes they're the ones playing all the videogames.

Now, I'm not saying the media doesn't paint unrealistic expectations for men.  However, I might have to do some research here to find out to what extent.  As it is, it seems that the "regular guy" is waaaaay more common than the "regular girl."

[who would know]

1136342t54 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Ash is actually one of my favorite female game characters of all time.

The point is that just because a character is attractive doesn't mean its bad.

When was that ever implied? You seem to be missing the point that Ashley was attractive before being made into ubiquitous video game TNA.

1136342t54 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

the argument about Ashley just wearing her off duty clothes doesn't jibe. why? because since then we saw the images of alternate appearance pack from collector's edition and guess what? Ashley is wearing recolor of her demo outfit while Kaidan and Vega are wearing armor.

They never showed Kaidan during the combat video. For all we know he was at the trial to and was just wearing his non combat or light armor clothing to appear less imposing.

Give it up already man. Ash's outfit is her equivalent to Kaidan's armor. They both feature in the same DLC appearance pack. And the reason Ash has been singled out to be the sexy soldier instead of the practical soldier, like every other one of her male peers, is because she is female.

Modifié par who would know, 14 septembre 2011 - 11:53 .