370 réponses à ce sujet

[ladyvader]

@iakus

I did find it very funny when the asari Captain Enyala's comment to Miranda and her outfit. "Cerberus lets you **** around in that." Or something along those line.

[Iakus]

True. It was way funnier than Miranda sitting on my computer screen while she's asking Shepard to help rescue her baby sister.

[Nashiktal]

elektrego wrote...

I don't deny that my explanation for why Ashley might wear that suit is flawed and it's obvious that the design is an attempt to accentuate her body, but it is still far from being oversexualized, imo, but that's probably because I am generally more relaxed about that and don't cry "Pervert!" easily, when someone shows their appreciation for the male/female/alien body and I am still a little twitchy, when it comes to Ashley's new oufit, because of all the claims, it would indicate that Bioware is trying to Mirandify her, which is an exaggeration. But it was never actually mentioned in this thread, so I might have overreacted a little.
As I said, this attempt for an explanation is flawed, but that is not the point. ME2 had a lot of flaws and yet I love that game. My point is that Ashley won't be ruined for me, because of what she wears - there are many other things about her, that a far more important to me. But that's just, like, my opinion man. In the end it come all down to the line, that gives a lot of people on the BSN an aneurysm: It's just a game, that I play to have fun and I come here to have some more fun with it. Life's too short to go crazy over the details and flaws, my critical thinking is reserved for more important things. *Le Gasp!*

Its not the sexualization that gets me, its the betrayal of character.

Now I know that phrase is thrown around a lot, and since I first accused ashely of this I was calmed by the developers. (I will still be suspicious until we learn more about Ashleys armor, and when she can wear it) I was still shocked to see Ashley turned into a bond girl.

Ashley, when first revealed, is wearing the very same outfits she used to mock, her hair down in her face, and she even looks like she is wearing makeup, (and while I don't really care about this point, its fair to mention her bust got bigger.)

Now thats fine and dandy during her personal time (although I want to know her trick for enlarging breasts), and I will even admit she might have been caught with "her pants down" so to speak in the previews during the trial or something, but during actual, premeditated combat it just seems ridiculous that she would do this. She is military to the bone, its "in her blood." She is constantly trying to be the best soldier she can be, and this is very counterproductive to that goal.

Being a specter doesn't make sense as an explanation, even Tela Vasir wore heavier armor than Ashley, the very same race of people Ashley made fun of for wearing LIGHT armor!

TL;DR

I don't mind the new look outside of combat, but during it makes me rage. Blah!

[mango smoothie]

ladyvader wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

I really don't mind Ashley's new outfit I think of it as more of the Alliance trying to give more maneuverability and speed to troops. One thing that all military groups want is to give a good defense, but try to make it as light as possible. With Kinetic Barriers it makes it easier.

It's not Alliance armor she is wearing.  It does have a Spectre logo on it. 

Just because it has a spectre logo on it dosen't mean it's not from Alliance. Certain military troops that are part of Nato will have Nato patches on, but there equipment and uniform is from their home country.

[Seboist]

All I can say about Ashley's new outfit is that I'm glad she's dead in my two main playthroughs.

[Nashiktal]

Although Ashley's outfit change has certainly taught me something about myself, In ME1 the characters I used the most were Wrex, Tali, Garrus, and Ashley, and in ME2 the characters I used the most were Grunt, Garrus, and Tali. (With no DLC, with DLC I used AA pack miranda and Zaeed)

Apparently I like armored people.

[AdmiralCheez]

Nashiktal wrote...

Apparently I like armored people.

See?

Armor is better.

GAME INDUSTRY, REALIZE THIS.

[Seboist]

Nashiktal wrote...

Although Ashley's outfit change has certainly taught me something about myself, In ME1 the characters I used the most were Wrex, Tali, Garrus, and Ashley, and in ME2 the characters I used the most were Grunt, Garrus, and Tali. (With no DLC, with DLC I used AA pack miranda and Zaeed)

Apparently I like armored people.

Amen, I would liked to use Samara/Morinth as a squadmate but the armor issue prevents that. I also use Garrus in Tali's loyalty mission and Garrus/Tali in Legion's in order not to break immersion.

[Nashiktal]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Apparently I like armored people.

See?

Armor is better.

GAME INDUSTRY, REALIZE THIS.

We get plenty of armored men, I just want armored women.  

And by armored I don't mean chain bikini.

[Iakus]

Nashiktal wrote...

Its not the sexualization that gets me, its the betrayal of character.

Now I know that phrase is thrown around a lot, and since I first accused ashely of this I was calmed by the developers. (I will still be suspicious until we learn more about Ashleys armor, and when she can wear it) I was still shocked to see Ashley turned into a bond girl.

This.

Until we get a screenshot or a demo, all this talk of armor for Ash is just that:  talk.

[Nashiktal]

Seboist wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Although Ashley's outfit change has certainly taught me something about myself, In ME1 the characters I used the most were Wrex, Tali, Garrus, and Ashley, and in ME2 the characters I used the most were Grunt, Garrus, and Tali. (With no DLC, with DLC I used AA pack miranda and Zaeed)

Apparently I like armored people.

Amen, I would liked to use Samara/Morinth as a squadmate but the armor issue prevents that. I also use Garrus in Tali's loyalty mission and Garrus/Tali in Legion's in order not to break immersion.

Samara is in a wierd place with me. I love her character, and her character style. However the cleavage annoys me. Its not that its cleavage itself, but that it feels counter to her character. 

Samara is a maternal figure, she is wrathful to those who threaten who she cares about (Which is the just according to her code) and yet is almost always completely calm, to the point of being monotone in speech, in a good way. She is shown meditating often, preparing the mind and body for battle, and she practically exudes samurai warrior with her ways. There is nothing to indicate WHY she has cleavage. She had no want or need to attract the attention of men (or women), she is very solitary, and her code often compels her into fits of murderous justice.

The cleavage choice confuses the hell out of me, and I suspect it was just chosen for cleavage sake rather than anything to do with her character.

[Seboist]

Nashiktal wrote...

Samara is in a wierd place with me. I love her character, and her character style. However the cleavage annoys me. Its not that its cleavage itself, but that it feels counter to her character. 

Samara is a maternal figure, she is wrathful to those who threaten who she cares about (Which is the just according to her code) and yet is almost always completely calm, to the point of being monotone in speech, in a good way. She is shown meditating often, preparing the mind and body for battle, and she practically exudes samurai warrior with her ways. There is nothing to indicate WHY she has cleavage. She had no want or need to attract the attention of men (or women), she is very solitary, and her code often compels her into fits of murderous justice.

The cleavage choice confuses the hell out of me, and I suspect it was just chosen for cleavage sake rather than anything to do with her character.

Indeed and the weirdest part is that her sociopathic hedonist sex murderer daughter ends up wearing an actual military outfit that shows no skin. Talk about a major WTF.

[Xilizhra]

Indeed and the weirdest part is that her sociopathic hedonist sex murderer daughter ends up wearing an actual military outfit that shows no skin. Talk about a major WTF.

And repeatedly insults her mother's outfit.

[silver1881]

Nashiktal wrote...

Samara is in a wierd place with me. I love her character, and her character style. However the cleavage annoys me. Its not that its cleavage itself, but that it feels counter to her character. 

Samara is a maternal figure, she is wrathful to those who threaten who she cares about (Which is the just according to her code) and yet is almost always completely calm, to the point of being monotone in speech, in a good way. She is shown meditating often, preparing the mind and body for battle, and she practically exudes samurai warrior with her ways. There is nothing to indicate WHY she has cleavage. She had no want or need to attract the attention of men (or women), she is very solitary, and her code often compels her into fits of murderous justice.

The cleavage choice confuses the hell out of me, and I suspect it was just chosen for cleavage sake rather than anything to do with her character.

This exactly. I feel the same way about Miranda. You could make the excuse that she's using her looks as a weapon or a distraction, but she doesn't need to. She's brilliant and capable and she knows it. She has total confidence in herself and her abilities and I just can't imagine that she would feel the need to do that so blatantly.

[Bcuz]

More importantly than the armor, hair bun.
Her new long hair style is... well we already have Miranda for that hair, and she doesn't pull it off well imho.

[spirosz]

I don't mind her outfit or the hair. I was assuming her hair was down because of Shepard's trail and that she was trying to look more formal for that particular scene. Maybe she'll still have the bun, but if not I really don't mind. I'll judge her in game, not just from a few screen shots and a video of her for a few seconds. Till the game is released, Ash is still Ash for me and that won't change till I see how she is throughout ME3.

[Iakus]

elektrego wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...


Its not the sexualization that gets me, its the betrayal of character.

Now I know that phrase is thrown around a lot, and since I first accused ashely of this I was calmed by the developers. (I will still be suspicious until we learn more about Ashleys armor, and when she can wear it) I was still shocked to see Ashley turned into a bond girl.

Ashley, when first revealed, is wearing the very same outfits she used to mock, her hair down in her face, and she even looks like she is wearing makeup, (and while I don't really care about this point, its fair to mention her bust got bigger.)

Now thats fine and dandy during her personal time (although I want to know her trick for enlarging breasts), and I will even admit she might have been caught with "her pants down" so to speak in the previews during the trial or something, but during actual, premeditated combat it just seems ridiculous that she would do this. She is military to the bone, its "in her blood." She is constantly trying to be the best soldier she can be, and this is very counterproductive to that goal.

Being a specter doesn't make sense as an explanation, even Tela Vasir wore heavier armor than Ashley, the very same race of people Ashley made fun of for wearing LIGHT armor!

TL;DR

I don't mind the new look outside of combat, but during it makes me rage. Blah!

The bolded part is what makes me angry, because I have yet to see, that it is a betrayal. Taking a few screenshots out of context isn't enough for a judgement, imo. I never liked people judging things based on insuffiicent data, that is my actual grief.
And from a strictly in-game perspective, assuming that it is Ashley's own decision to change that way, it feels like an attack against her, for having the audacity to change, but I am projecting my own expericences with change and the reactions to it and I shouldn't do that. The fact is Ashley has a few critical years behind her, that can change a person for better of for worse, how that new design fits into this, I don't know, it probably never will...
In fact, it's rather funny that I defend it, because my own taste is very different and as I stated before I prefer the armor as well, but looks aren't important to me, one way or the other. If they are to you, well, that certainly s*cks...

Ashley is a practical, hard nosed soldier.  It's the reason for the "thick armor and big sun" philosophy. I can't see her changing that in less than three years.  Even as a Spectre, she'll be going into dangerous situations, especially given her training (combat soldier).  This is what "betrayal of the character" means.  Her personality may have been findamentally changed for no other reason than to make her "more appealing to a wider audience"  Or worse, the look is given to her without consideration of her personality or role at all

Maybe there's a reason for the look.  But after ME2, I am not optomistic.  Nor am I convinced at the reassurances of "armor" being available.  ME2 burned a lot of credibility in my book.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Kaidan has it hard enough as it is with most people thinking he is bland, uninteresting, and/or gay for Shepard.

I often wonder where this comes from.

A lot of people find Raphael Sbarge's voice to be kind of effeminate. When his character is a soft-spoken prettyboy and a lesser head-on fighter than the other squaddies Shep's with, not to mention the whole "pausing" thing with Shepard...it doesn't work to well in his favor in terms of being perceived as a bastion of masculine heterosexuality.

[AdmiralCheez]

Nashiktal wrote...

Samara is in a wierd place with me. I love her character, and her character style. However the cleavage annoys me. Its not that its cleavage itself, but that it feels counter to her character. 

Samara is a maternal figure, she is wrathful to those who threaten who she cares about (Which is the just according to her code) and yet is almost always completely calm, to the point of being monotone in speech, in a good way. She is shown meditating often, preparing the mind and body for battle, and she practically exudes samurai warrior with her ways. There is nothing to indicate WHY she has cleavage. She had no want or need to attract the attention of men (or women), she is very solitary, and her code often compels her into fits of murderous justice.

The cleavage choice confuses the hell out of me, and I suspect it was just chosen for cleavage sake rather than anything to do with her character.

Brace yourself, as I'm about to think too hard.

Breasts are a symbol of maternity.  Samara, as you said, is a very maternal figure.  To the asari, a race that is exclusively female, exposed breasts probably trigger a feeling of security rather than sexual arousal.  And really, boobs may not be much of a sexybit to the asari at all, since everyone has them (although larger breasts may imply a more fertile woman: MATE WITH HER CUZ SHE CAN FEED YO BABBYS).  Also, because there are no dicks, and because mating is done psychically rather than physically, the asari probably don't have any issues with their bodies.  The idea of modesty in dressing is probably laughable for them--other species are ashamed of their own flesh?!  What a bunch of weirdos!

And then there's the heels.  What's with them heels?  Well, we've seen Samara use them to crush tracheas, plus there's the added height...  Looking taller may very well make her seem more intimidating.

So Samara looks comforting, yet threatening.  That's kind of the essence of a Justicar right there: security and protection for the just, scary as ****** for the unjust.  And consider, Justicars hardly ever leave asari space, so there was probably no reason to update her duds into a more "galaxy-friendly" model.

In fact, she may not even realize or care that she looks like a tramp by human standards.

BUT THAT'S JUST ME TRYING TO GIVE AN IN-UNIVERSE JUSTIFICATION FOR A DUMB DESIGN DECISION, DON'T MIND ME, HERP DERP.

[100k]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Samara is in a wierd place with me. I love her character, and her character style. However the cleavage annoys me. Its not that its cleavage itself, but that it feels counter to her character. 

Samara is a maternal figure, she is wrathful to those who threaten who she cares about (Which is the just according to her code) and yet is almost always completely calm, to the point of being monotone in speech, in a good way. She is shown meditating often, preparing the mind and body for battle, and she practically exudes samurai warrior with her ways. There is nothing to indicate WHY she has cleavage. She had no want or need to attract the attention of men (or women), she is very solitary, and her code often compels her into fits of murderous justice.

The cleavage choice confuses the hell out of me, and I suspect it was just chosen for cleavage sake rather than anything to do with her character.

Brace yourself, as I'm about to think too hard.

Breasts are a symbol of maternity.  Samara, as you said, is a very maternal figure.  To the asari, a race that is exclusively female, exposed breasts probably trigger a feeling of security rather than sexual arousal.  And really, boobs may not be much of a sexybit to the asari at all, since everyone has them (although larger breasts may imply a more fertile woman: MATE WITH HER CUZ SHE CAN FEED YO BABBYS).  Also, because there are no dicks, and because mating is done psychically rather than physically, the asari probably don't have any issues with their bodies.  The idea of modesty in dressing is probably laughable for them--other species are ashamed of their own flesh?!  What a bunch of weirdos!

And then there's the heels.  What's with them heels?  Well, we've seen Samara use them to crush tracheas, plus there's the added height...  Looking taller may very well make her seem more intimidating.

So Samara looks comforting, yet threatening.  That's kind of the essence of a Justicar right there: security and protection for the just, scary as ****** for the unjust.  And consider, Justicars hardly ever leave asari space, so there was probably no reason to update her duds into a more "galaxy-friendly" model.

In fact, she may not even realize or care that she looks like a tramp by human standards.

BUT THAT'S JUST ME TRYING TO GIVE AN IN-UNIVERSE JUSTIFICATION FOR A DUMB DESIGN DECISION, DON'T MIND ME, HERP DERP.

I actually thought something similar. It explains why Benezia and Samara are very vuluptuous-- and at ease with displaying it. For asari it might be a sign of social dominance, like men with big muscles for humans.

[Nashiktal]

I like that explanation cheese, and it helps me accept her cleavage. I just wish bioware could explore this more in the Asari general. We never really get to explore the culture of other species save through squadmates, who can hardly even describe it.

Liara and Tali in me1 for example.

[Iakus]

Problem is it's also a sign of an exposed upper chest where there's all sorts of important bits like heart, lungs, and so on. Granted this may not be the case for asari, but given they are the most humanoid looking of the alien races, the comparison remains

[ladyvader]

iakus wrote...

True. It was way funnier than Miranda sitting on my computer screen while she's asking Shepard to help rescue her baby sister.

Only to find out she was 19 years old. 

[AdmiralCheez]

Nashiktal wrote...

I like that explanation cheese, and it helps me accept her cleavage. I just wish bioware could explore this more in the Asari general. We never really get to explore the culture of other species save through squadmates, who can hardly even describe it.

Liara and Tali in me1 for example.

Yeah, I really like hearing about that stuff.  Hopefully, we'll get more of it in ME3.

If not, the whole "learn more about alien culture" thing is one of the few reasons I'd support a Mass Effect MMO.