370 réponses à ce sujet

[100k]

Nashiktal wrote...
See the problem is the character we have known for all this time would WANT to wear heavy armor.

Ash from ME1 and 2? Yes. But We know that from ME1-ME3 is about three years. She can change. 

*yes, but, it goes against her history--*

SHE. CHANGED. 

Hell she even MAKES FUN OF LIGHT ARMOR--

Which asari commandos wear probably for a number of reasons.

Light armor =/= weak or impractical. The advantages are up to the individual. Ash feels safer and more accustomed to armor. Hell, so would I in her position. But an asari command might feel more agile and flexible in commando leathers. If Ash started testing out the advantages to lighter armors and heavier armors, and found that maybe light armor offers her something that heavier armor doesn't, than that's her choice, and it doesn't detract from her ability as a Spectre.

And yes, Spectre comes first. They aren't tied down to military customes -- hell, some of the Spectres aren't even military (like Vasir). 

And now that Ashleys wrighter has left, I am damn well going to complain about potential changes to her character. Deal with it.

So you're going to complain about "potential" changes to a character (who changed over the period of 3 years), but you're going to ignore the head dev telling you that she not only has the "potential" to wear armor, but will actually have armor?

[Nashiktal]

100k wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

100k wrote...

Ash is a spectre. Military comes after that fact. She can have crazy hair, or military hair. She can wear a modest if not somewhat combat ineffective jump suit, or phoenix armor. Basically, she can wear whatever the hell she wants -- including the "full armor" that Casey Hudson promised.

So stop complaining, people.

*snippiety snip*

Lol yeah, cause it's not like Spectres get into fire-fights or anything, where they'll need protection from bullets. Or being able to see what they are shooting at

Or wear light armor.

/snip

Or wear cameoflague armor that makes you stick out like a neon sign.

\\snip

The first pic is shep, a biotic shep who can create a barrier at that.

The second involves the player customizing ashleys armor, and kaidens, which they have no control over. Players would dress her in a clown suit if they had the option.

We are not complaining about customization however. If people want to dress Ashley up in a clown suit go ahead. No the complaint is about how Bioware has been creating outfits more unique to characters, but doing so counterproductive to their charater.

Ashley the tough alliance soldier who has been following soldier tradition since her grandfather surrendered on shanxi, the girl who laughed at Asari for wearing light armor, made fun of sci fi sexy wear, who had the balls to shotgun wrex if she needed to... IS wearing a frakking catsuit.

Kaiden? The sentinel, the support specialist who cannot stand on the frontlines without biotic barrier, the soft sensitive man who holds back, wears HEAVY ARMOR. 

The BIOTIC guy is wearing heavy armor, the full blooded SOLDIER i wearing a catsuit.

The next thing you know anderson will be wearing a speed suit.

[Swimming Ferret]

Nashiktal wrote...

The next thing you know anderson will be wearing a speed suit.

I would totally be okay with that.

But not with Ashley being a weird, leather-wearing hair-in-the-breeze, high heel wearing chickie-do.

EDIT: I also agree with the rest of your post.

Modifié par Swimming Ferret, 14 septembre 2011 - 06:31 .

[100k]

Swimming Ferret wrote...Ashely isn't a Biotic; she's a Soldier, a hard hitter Tank class. Heavy armour is kind of a given.

So...you have to be a biotic to wear light armor....?

Also, so what if she wants to wear pink armour? I have no spat with that, as long as she's in actual ARMOUR not miraculous bullet-proof spandex/leather with hair all over the place.

Don't whine about the practicality of light, semi camoflague armor without evaluating the far more dangerous risks of non camoflague heavy armor. There's a reason why troops today wear clothing more like Ash's CE outfit.

Oh, and her outfit isn't a "spandex" catsuit. It's more akin to what Liara wears -- a light commando outfit.

Long hair + non heavy armor =/= Miranda. 

[jeweledleah]

you know personally. I wouldn't mind if Ash would end up in that outfit... provided everyone who's ever getting into firefights wears something similar. women AND men. because if we're going to go with "you only need light armor to be protected - its all kinetic barriers anyways" then it doesn't make sense for some to wear armor... especially when those someones are powerful biotics "cough" "Kaidan, Tela Vasir" Enyala etc" cough.  I mean at least they can reinforce their shields with personal biotics if necessary.  Ash cannot do that . she has to rely in built in kinnetic barriers

something occured to me about Aria and her club wear, that kinda made me facepalm at the fact that it didn't occured to me earlier. she's in a club. clubwear makes sense in a club. she's not going into firefight. she is surrounded by bodyguards. and Benezia? she's wearing that outfit to make an impression and you barely fight her anyways, she calls up lightly armored commandos and geth to attack you in waves. she flings biotics at you from the range sure, but commandos and geth are doing the bulk of the fighting.

even asari we fight in ME2 - they are all wearing full armor. everyone you fight, wears full armor. some of the squadmates wear full armor. except for the eye candy ones. yeah... lore is definitely the major reason here >_>

so...

yeah...

P.S.  that outfit is designed in such a way as to accent some very specific features of her body.  Liara's outfit actualy flows smoother and looks more like armor.  covers more too.  not to mention Liara's eyes are not covered.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 14 septembre 2011 - 06:36 .

[Nashiktal]

100k wrote...

Ash from ME1 and 2? Yes. But We know that from ME1-ME3 is about three years. She can change. 

*yes, but, it goes against her history--*

SHE. CHANGED.

ME1 to ME3 is about three years. However you just said that ashley didn't change from ME1 to 2.

So her personality changes in a matter of months? ME2 to 3 is not years mate, its months. I guess she could be indoctrinated, but hell, i'm sure her personality change has nothing to do with her writer leaving, or the fact that everyone else seems to be stripping down to bathe in toxic atmosphers.

Which asari commandos wear probably for a number of reasons.

Light armor =/= weak or impractical. The advantages are up to the individual. Ash feels safer and more accustomed to armor. Hell, so would I in her position. But an asari command might feel more agile and flexible in commando leathers. If Ash started testing out the advantages to lighter armors and heavier armors, and found that maybe light armor offers her something that heavier armor doesn't, than that's her choice, and it doesn't detract from her ability as a Spectre.

And yes, Spectre comes first. They aren't tied down to military customes -- hell, some of the Spectres aren't even military (like Vasir).

I am not saying light armor is bad, I am saying ASHLEY said light armor was bad. She prefers solid armor between her and the enemy. Thats her personality, thats her thing.

Just because she becomes a specter does'nt mean she suddenly changers her preference. Ashley is a traditional woman, she is stubborn and doesn't change easily. You say her personality changed, I say this change only happened when her writer left. Can't you see why we might be worried?

Vasir is also counter to your point, considering she wears more armor than most of the ME2 crew. She is a spectre, and yet she wears heavy armor? How shocking.

So you're going to complain about "potential" changes to a character (who changed over the period of 3 years), but you're going to ignore the head dev telling you that she not only has the "potential" to wear armor, but will actually have armor?

1. She hasn't changed over a period of three years, she changed over a matter of months, at least according to you.

2. I am not ignoring it, I am wanting proof. So far all we get are pics of Ashley in a catsuit, hair in her face. I understand that these might be when she was caught off guard during sheps trial, but what I need is PROOF. Character models for squadmates do not change easily, that takes time and resources. When you change the amor for characters in ME2, it was a pallette swap unless you payed for DLC.

In any case, you would know that I am open to Ashley like this off duty on the normandy or something if you read the thread instead of telling me to "deal with it."

[Swimming Ferret]

100k wrote...

So...you have to be a biotic to wear light armor....?

<_< No. However, Biotics can only wear light armour as they are able to make barriers and rely on their biotic powers, not physical strength. Unlike Soldiers who have no biotics, they rely on strength and guns, they are the front line fighters, with no biotic barriers, hence wearing heavy armour tends to protect them from bullets better.

100k wrote...

Don't whine about the practicality of light, semi camoflague armor without evaluating the far more dangerous risks of non camoflague heavy armor. There's a reason why troops today wear clothing more like Ash's CE outfit.

Oh, and her outfit isn't a "spandex" catsuit. It's more akin to what Liara wears -- a light commando outfit.

Long hair + non heavy armor =/= Miranda. 

She's a SOLDIER class. So, wearing high heels, hair all in your face and leather amour is less of a handicap then non-como heavy armour , flat heels and tied up hair?

[100k]

Nashiktal wrote...
The first pic is shep, a biotic shep who can create a barrier at that.

And Thane? Or Kasumi? Or Mordin? They all wear tight clothing -- but I'd hardly say that they need armor.

The second involves the player customizing ashleys armor, and kaidens, which they have no control over. Players would dress her in a clown suit if they had the option.

We are not complaining about customization however. If people want to dress Ashley up in a clown suit go ahead. No the complaint is about how Bioware has been creating outfits more unique to characters, but doing so counterproductive to their charater.

That's not the point. If a Spectre can wear whatever he/she wants, than so can Ash. You can claim that what she's wearing contradicts her character, but, having not played ME3, your claim is based only on past experience with her -- which has changed.

Ashley the tough alliance soldier who has been following soldier tradition since her grandfather surrendered on shanxi, the girl who laughed at Asari for wearing light armor, made fun of sci fi sexy wear, who had the balls to shotgun wrex if she needed to... IS wearing a frakking catsuit.

A girl who thought that aliens were more like souless animals than sapient beings -- ignoring the fact that even the most brutish of the alien species were conducting atomic warfare and FTL technology while her ancestors squatted in the mud to sh!t.  

Yeah, Ash is a smart girl, but she was also very conservative.

Kaiden? The sentinel, the support specialist who cannot stand on the frontlines without biotic barrier, the soft sensitive man who holds back, wears HEAVY ARMOR. 

The BIOTIC guy is wearing heavy armor, the full blooded SOLDIER i wearing a catsuit.

Ash isn't wearing a catsuit. And the two of them might be trying to make up for what they feel are weaknesses in their defense systems; for Kaiden it would be heavier armor + biotics, for Ash it would be lighter armor + agility and gun power.

[jeweledleah]

what weaknesses is shepard making up for? seeing as any class shepard essentially wears heavy armor. male or female. just curious.

[Nashiktal]

100k wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...
The first pic is shep, a biotic shep who can create a barrier at that.

And Thane? Or Kasumi? Or Mordin? They all wear tight clothing -- but I'd hardly say that they need armor.

The second involves the player customizing ashleys armor, and kaidens, which they have no control over. Players would dress her in a clown suit if they had the option.

We are not complaining about customization however. If people want to dress Ashley up in a clown suit go ahead. No the complaint is about how Bioware has been creating outfits more unique to characters, but doing so counterproductive to their charater.

That's not the point. If a Spectre can wear whatever he/she wants, than so can Ash. You can claim that what she's wearing contradicts her character, but, having not played ME3, your claim is based only on past experience with her -- which has changed.

Ashley the tough alliance soldier who has been following soldier tradition since her grandfather surrendered on shanxi, the girl who laughed at Asari for wearing light armor, made fun of sci fi sexy wear, who had the balls to shotgun wrex if she needed to... IS wearing a frakking catsuit.

A girl who thought that aliens were more like souless animals than sapient beings -- ignoring the fact that even the most brutish of the alien species were conducting atomic warfare and FTL technology while her ancestors squatted in the mud to sh!t.  

Yeah, Ash is a smart girl, but she was also very conservative.

Kaiden? The sentinel, the support specialist who cannot stand on the frontlines without biotic barrier, the soft sensitive man who holds back, wears HEAVY ARMOR. 

The BIOTIC guy is wearing heavy armor, the full blooded SOLDIER i wearing a catsuit.

Ash isn't wearing a catsuit. And the two of them might be trying to make up for what they feel are weaknesses in their defense systems; for Kaiden it would be heavier armor + biotics, for Ash it would be lighter armor + agility and gun power.

Holy crap I get it now. I was actually about to get serious, but I don't need to now.

Thane is an assassin who if had the choice would never fight upfront, also he has to keep his chest uncovered or he will die that much quicker. Kasumi is a master thief who has a cloaking device. Not to mention she isn't even a combat specialist. Mordin is a scientist, an intelligence officer, and a salarian to boot. Again, he is not supposted to be on the front, and he doesn't wear armor.

Then again the very fact you chose three non soldiers seems to me you are baiting or something.

Of course I can't say what happens in ME3, however you are saying her entire personality is changing in a matter of months, which I see you have not deigned to acknowledged. I also see you are failing to acknowledge all these changes are happening AFTER her writer leaves.

Still even if her personality changed, she is having an entire 180 character flip if she is going from hardline soldier, to hair in face, high heels, catsuit, with a boob job to boot. And no, I am not hyperboling here, they actually did increase her bust. Not sure what that has to do with her changing personality.

Make up for weakness? Ashley was the second strongest tank in ME1, and a sole survior to boot. Kaiden can create biotic barriers, and wearing heavy armor would only tire him out. Biotics don't wear heavy armor for that reason, they already have enough strain on their bodies (more specifically their nervous systyem) just by using biotics.

[Nashiktal]

Its a catsuit. It might have a few extra inches of rubber, but its still a catsuit.

[100k]

Nashiktal wrote...
Holy crap I get it now. I was actually about to get serious, but I don't need to now.

Thane is an assassin who if had the choice would never fight upfront, also he has to keep his chest uncovered or he will die that much quicker. Kasumi is a master thief who has a cloaking device. Not to mention she isn't even a combat specialist. Mordin is a scientist, an intelligence officer, and a salarian to boot. Again, he is not supposted to be on the front, and he doesn't wear armor.

Then again the very fact you chose three non soldiers seems to me you are baiting or something.

And Samara? Or Jacob? Or human eclipse sisters in thin armor?

Of course I can't say what happens in ME3, however you are saying her entire personality is changing in a matter of months, which I see you have not deigned to acknowledged. I also see you are failing to acknowledge all these changes are happening AFTER her writer leaves.

1) I didn't say her personality completely changed. I said that "SHE CHANGED" referring that to her wardrobe. But the devs also said that Ash's character was more mature and reasonable or something recently. 

2) We don't know how long Ash has been a Spectre. I got the impression that she became one after Shepard died, and has been undercover ever since. Hence the meeting on Horizon and well classified file.

Still even if her personality changed, she is having an entire 180 character flip if she is going from hardline soldier, to hair in face, high heels, catsuit, with a boob job to boot.

Her hair is no longer in a bun...that doesn't qualify for much. Vasir and Aria wear high heals too. So does Samara. Hey! It sounds like my theory on how she might have studied the asari culture might actually be correct!

And no, I am not hyperboling here, they actually did increase her bust. Not sure what that has to do with her changing personality.

Source. 

Make up for weakness? Ashley was the second strongest tank in ME1, and a sole survior to boot. Kaiden can create biotic barriers, and wearing heavy armor would only tire him out. Biotics don't wear heavy armor for that reason, they already have enough strain on their bodies (more specifically their nervous systyem) just by using biotics.

Biotic Shepard in ME2, Wrex, Wasea, Vasir, Enyala, and armored Miranda all disagree with you.

[mineralica]

DaftArbiter wrote...

Here:

Oh, so nice collar. I have similar on my lab coat. Even if you have a long hair and occasionaly don't have elastic, hair would be held in place if you roll them into ponytail - like thing and tuck under said collar.

[V-rex]

I'm going to go ahead and quote myself:

I really don't know who's side I'm on when it comes to this whole 'Ashley redesign' thing.

On the one hand, I think she looks great on a pure aesthetical level. She's a beautiful woman, and far be it from me to suggest that a sexy and beautiful woman is automatically disqualified from the ranks of 'badassery' because of it. Plus I remind myself how happy I was when I first saw Ashley's picture in that magazine, enough that I didn't even care how she looked, because it meant that she was actually back. This was the first lot of good news VS fans had recieved in almost one and a half years and I always feel bad when I think about how much hostility got generated by it.
I don't want to appear like I'm spitting in the face of the one good thing Ashley fans have been handed in so long.

On the other hand I do have issues with how women get sexualized in our media, especially in gaming media. I object to the fact that there seems to be a written rule that every female character 'must' be hyper sexy in our media, especially when the rule certainly doesn't have to apply to males (it can happen, but there's no requirement) and yes, it does bother me that they opted to make Ashley into a more sexual image like that.
It does actually genuienly annoy me that the one female character who was just attractive in an ordinary believable human way was redesigned into a bombastic space vixen.
Given my long record of bad mouthing other characters like Miranda for being overly sexualized, defending or justifying the recreating of Ashley would make me feel like a hypocrite.

So it becomes a choice between being happy with the good stuff and feel like I'm sacrificing my principles in the process, or hold onto my principles and values and get to feel like I'm spoiling something I should be happy about.

I just have no idea which side I should stand with on this issue. Because I love and hate this whole situation so much on an almost equal level. The closest I've come to a resolution so far has been simply 'acceptance'.
Meaning that I neither condemn nor condone the decision to change Ashley's appearance, but have to deal with the fact that it is how it is no matter what. I am forcing myself to become neutral in this regard, so that I can, hopefully, keep both my principles and my joy at her return going on in equal levels.

I'm not happy about her changing (though I admit it looks good, just not really what I think of when I think 'Ashley') but I am over the moon about her being back in the game.

If nothing else, no matter how she looks... I'm just glad she's back.

This is sort of my resounding opinon of this whole situation, that even though she has changed I admit she looks good and while I can't say I approve of the change I'll be damned if I'll let that turn me off from her now.

[Nashiktal]

Samara is a master biotic that rivals that of matriarchs. Jacob was also ridiculous, he is a male Miranda with a plain personality. of course he also has biotics, you keep pointing out the biotics with light armor for some reason. Probably because biotics use light armor if they are not shep.

They say that everyone is more mature. I am not sure how letting her hair in her face during combat is more mature. High heels I can allow because its a technical problem, not a character design. The high heels allow them to account for height differences.

Now you are speculating, do you have proof that she became a spectre after shep died? I don't know if her personality changed drastically. but I have visual cues that definately hint toward it. Doesn't seem to be for the better.

And yet again you ignore the fact she changes after the writer is gone. You seem to be ignoring a lot of my points.

The fact her hair isnt in a bun isn't the problem. the problem is that its in her face. That tweet that says she can make awesome shots with her hair in her face doesn't impress me, in fact it makes me even more worried about the direction they are taking her. Her writer did leave, and those taking her place are seemingly turning her into an "awesome" button ashely as someone else put it.

Also as I have said, high heels are for technical reasons, not character design.

If you are asking for a source, you have not been in the last thread about ashely eh? They did a side by side comparison, and ashelys bust did get bigger. I will admit all females in ME1 had the same bust size so a change was inevitable, doesn't make me feel any better when combined with the rest of her changes.

Shep is the PC that is fully customizable, Wrex is a krogan WHO HAS TWO NERVOUS SYSTEMS (which biotics use), Wasea is an Asari mercenary captain, Vasir is an Asari spectre, Same with Enyala, and armoured Miranda is a DLC pack.

So to recap, Biotics can wear armor if they are the player character (who has no choice in light armor in ME2), A krogan who has double everything needed for biotics, or Asari who are natrually inclined for biotics. Or if they use a payed DLC to say otherwise.

None of those explain why Kaiden suddenly wants to wear armor. He is not the PC, he is not an asari, and he is definitely not a krogan. Did somebody by DLC for him?

[KawaiiKatie]

100k wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

And no, I am not hyperboling here, they actually did increase her bust. Not sure what that has to do with her changing personality.

Source.

It's as simple as comparing the ME1 and ME2 female bodies (the body used for every single human woman, including Ashley in ME1 and female Shepard in both ME1 and ME2) to Miranda's body. Miranda has bigger boobs than any other human woman in the universe.



But then when we compare ME3 Ashley to Miranda, it's obvious that she's gotten a few... upgrades.



Yeah, Ashley hasn't been "sexualized" at all. <_<

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 14 septembre 2011 - 07:22 .

[Nashiktal]

V-rex

I have never said she does't look good. In fact if it wasn't for the lack of armor pics I would be ecstatic for Ashleys new design. However the changes combined with other factors just don't sit right to me.

We are promised armor, but we are promised lots of things during ME2 that never came to be because of time or resources. A pic would be nice. Or hell, at least confirmation that she will tie her hair up during combat.

[Swimming Ferret]

KawaiiKatie wrote...



But then when we compare ME3 Ashley to Miranda, it's obvious that she's gotten a few... upgrades.



Yeah, Ashley hasn't been "sexualized" at all. <_<

Hey look! It's another of Miranda's sisters/clones!


Oh wait...

[who would know]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

I just get disappointed by Ashley's redesign because she looks just like Miranda now, and it smacks of Bioware trying to give Ashley a slice of Miranda's "dat ass, dem boobs" popularity.

Yeah, the intent behind the makeover is pretty transparent. Not to mention the double standard. Ashley's the to-the-bone soldier, but she gets light armor instead of Kaidan? Not even. She gets a paper-thin jacket with exposed chest, thigh-high boots, skirt, and heels. Top it off with loose hair and perfect makeup. She looks more like a space waitress than a soldier. Or one of those dime-a-dozen comic book space babes. "Sorry, but...



"There's writing on the wall here, and someone isn't reading it."

Nashiktal wrote...

I guess she could be indoctrinated

Even reapers know TNA is the ultimate distraction from a vital mission. Just too bad they never realized it won't gel at all with who Ashley is as a person. As such, her indoctrination will be obvious.

[Nashiktal]

@katie, and that pic makes me wonder why people don't see it as a catsuit. Its rubber (or latex, shiny either way), and its thin enough to follow the line on the stomach.

Just because it has shoulder pads doesn't mean its not a catsuit.

Actually I guess since its not entirely one piece its not a catsuit, its just a thin rubber suit. >.>

[Never]

I was excited to see her, but really let down that they changed her so much. The things that keep me playing ME1 over and over are Ash and Kaidan, and how real they feel. Ash was one of the few characters I really connected to. If they've altered her this much, I'm scared to see what will happen with the rest of her personality. I just hope we get to see her armor soon! Or any info really, for Ash or Kaidan.

[mineralica]

About high heels: leveled heels seems to be the necessity for human squadmates in ME3, because I see them on Kaidan:


Ashley and 10k follower celebration Vega. On another hand, one of girls who must be elevated for height difference prefers flats:


I give up. I totally can't see a reason for that distinguish.