200 réponses à ce sujet

[SpectreSeven]

Covenant ships will be long hacked and their crews indoctrinated, infiltrated and butchered by Reaper troops before thay can do anything

[Computer_God91]

111987 wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

Reapers win. Indoctrination, Super intelligent AI, millions of years of genocide experience, and they normally have the element of surprise.

The Covenant was destroyed by civil war and humans. Pathetic if you ask me.

Covenant AI is just as sophisticated, if not more so, than Reaper AI. And Indoctrination is a slow process, and the Reaper has to be close.

The Covenant were defeated by a civil war and the flood, not humans. Humans would have been totally anhilated.

lol I wasn't even aware Covenant had AI. I'll bet it's not as sophisticated as millions of years old machines that's only purpose is to wipe out all life in the galaxy. That's alot of practice time.

Humans, flood, whatever. They got wiped out by what's essentially a virus and stupid leadership, Starships controlled by AI wouldn't have that happen to them and would take full advantage of their weakness.

v1K0 wrote...

Covenant ships will be long hacked and their crews indoctrinated, infiltrated and butchered by Reaper troops before thay can do anything

Oh yea and this too.

Modifié par Computer_God91, 13 septembre 2011 - 04:56 .

[111987]

v1K0 wrote...

Covenant ships will be long hacked and their
crews indoctrinated, infiltrated and butchered by Reaper troops before
thay can do anything

No, they wouldn't. Indoctrination
doesn't work like that, and the Covevant have AI sophisticated enough to
combat Forerunner AI (Cortana).

Computer_God91 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

Reapers win. Indoctrination, Super intelligent AI, millions of years of genocide experience, and they normally have the element of surprise.

The Covenant was destroyed by civil war and humans. Pathetic if you ask me.

Covenant AI is just as sophisticated, if not more so, than Reaper AI. And Indoctrination is a slow process, and the Reaper has to be close.

The Covenant were defeated by a civil war and the flood, not humans. Humans would have been totally anhilated.

lol I wasn't even aware Covenant had AI. I'll bet it's not as sophisticated as millions of years old machines that's only purpose is to wipe out all life in the galaxy. That's alot of practice time.

Humans, flood, whatever. They got wiped out by what's essentially a virus and stupid leadership, Starships controlled by AI wouldn't have that happen to them and would take full advantage of their weakness.

A virus that is powerful enough to consume the entire galaxy...and this is just a straight up battle. In a straight fight, the Reapers would be slaughtered.

[DarthSliver]

interesting thread, but the Reapers wouldnt have allowed the Covenant to get as powerful as they did get in Halo universe.

Reapers win alone because of that, Covenant would need to be a species from another galaxy. Basically a Galaxy Conquering species.

[suprhomre]

 what is a Covenant?

[XyleJKH]

Ok, sorry but yeah... Covenant would not win, sorry. I love both series, but really reapers are too cunning.

[LOLandStuff]

suprhomre wrote...

 what is a Covenant?

I think it's a very big ship from the Halo series.
Not a fan but that's what it seems they're talking about.

[Dean_the_Young]

Hey guys, let's compare mutually exclusive sci-fi technologies that work on entirely different pseudo-BS principals!

There's a good reason versus threads are the bane of forums, and that's because of how stupid they are from the start.

[Dean_the_Young]

LOLandStuff wrote...

suprhomre wrote...

 what is a Covenant?

I think it's a very big ship from the Halo series.
Not a fan but that's what it seems they're talking about.

The correct answer is

'Sorry, I'm not into pokemon.'

[111987]

XyleJKH wrote...

Ok, sorry but yeah... Covenant would not win, sorry. I love both series, but really reapers are too cunning.

I fail to see how 'cunning' allows them to pierce shields that can withstand megaton yields of energy, or how 'cunning' allows their shields to suddenly protect them against plasma based weaponry and megaton yield blasts.

LOLandStuff wrote...

suprhomre wrote...

 what is a Covenant?

I think it's a very big ship from the Halo series.
Not a fan but that's what it seems they're talking about.

halo.wikia.com/wiki/Covenant_Empire

Not a ship, but an empire of several races.

[Computer_God91]

DarthSliver wrote...

Reapers win alone because of that, Covenant would need to be a species from another galaxy. Basically a Galaxy Conquering species.

Yup, this alone means victory hands down for the reapers.

[Azbeszt]

inb4 the lock

[111987]

Computer_God91 wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Reapers win alone because of that, Covenant would need to be a species from another galaxy. Basically a Galaxy Conquering species.

Yup, this alone means victory hands down for the reapers.

No...for the sake of discussion they ahve to be considered to be in seperate galaxies.

Otherwise I can say 'well the Covenant can just activate the Ark and kill all the Reapers', because the Halo rings would be in the milky way galaxy with the Reapers.

[The Everchosen of Chaos]

A covenant is a religious pact i.e an alliance between two parties. The Covenant is an alliance of several alien species with advanced technology that consider humanity to be an unholy blemish. in other words they hate our guts.

Now the Covenants technology is based completely on Forerunner technology, a seriously advanced culture far beyond even the Protheans themselves. As others may have said the Reapers are far too reliant on the use of indoctrination and younger species using a weaker version of their own technology- The Covenant are a galactic superpower on a level similar to that of the Reapers themselves.
The Reapers would be unprepared to face such a powerful and implacable foe- I won't take sides here but I will say this- it would be one hell of a fight!.  

Also this would be most likely be a space battle as the Reapers lack any kind of an organised military force-husks do not count and neither do the Collectors who are essentially slaves. 

Modifié par The Everchosen of Chaos, 13 septembre 2011 - 05:39 .

[Ace of Dawn]

111987 wrote...

v1K0 wrote...

Covenant ships will be long hacked and their
crews indoctrinated, infiltrated and butchered by Reaper troops before
thay can do anything

No, they wouldn't. Indoctrination
doesn't work like that, and the Covevant have AI sophisticated enough to
combat Forerunner AI (Cortana).

Computer_God91 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

Reapers win. Indoctrination, Super intelligent AI, millions of years of genocide experience, and they normally have the element of surprise.

The Covenant was destroyed by civil war and humans. Pathetic if you ask me.

Covenant AI is just as sophisticated, if not more so, than Reaper AI. And Indoctrination is a slow process, and the Reaper has to be close.

The Covenant were defeated by a civil war and the flood, not humans. Humans would have been totally anhilated.

lol I wasn't even aware Covenant had AI. I'll bet it's not as sophisticated as millions of years old machines that's only purpose is to wipe out all life in the galaxy. That's alot of practice time.

Humans, flood, whatever. They got wiped out by what's essentially a virus and stupid leadership, Starships controlled by AI wouldn't have that happen to them and would take full advantage of their weakness.

A virus that is powerful enough to consume the entire galaxy...and this is just a straight up battle. In a straight fight, the Reapers would be slaughtered.

Just to clear the air.

The Covenant do not have any real level of sophistication in AI. That is one of the key main points as to why Humanity was capable of fighting off the Covenant.

They essentially only had two forms of AI:

1. Mendicant Bias - An AI developed by the Forerunners to combat the flood, it was on a level all on its own. It got turned by the Gravemind, and was defeated by Offensive Bias (more limited, but precise in its directive: defeat Mendicant Bias). It was on-board the Forerunner Dreadnaught that powered High Chairty, and revealed that Humans were actually the Reclaimers. It tried to disengage the Dreadnaught, but was disconnected.

It "fought" against Cortana in High Chairty, but only because she was trying to delay the disengagement.

2. Copied AIs. The Covenant simply copied captured AIs repatedly, which eventually led to corruption and decay. They were hardly sophisticated, and Cortana dealt with them with little effort.

Most combat based VIs were likely more effective than anything the Covenant could muster up. Nevermind a Reaper.

And Cortana was a human developed AI, not a Forerunner AI. As advanced as human AIs were, they stilled paled in comparison to Forerunner AIs.

Modifié par Ace of Dawn, 13 septembre 2011 - 05:41 .

[111987]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

111987 wrote...

v1K0 wrote...

Covenant ships will be long hacked and their
crews indoctrinated, infiltrated and butchered by Reaper troops before
thay can do anything

No, they wouldn't. Indoctrination
doesn't work like that, and the Covevant have AI sophisticated enough to
combat Forerunner AI (Cortana).

Computer_God91 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

Reapers win. Indoctrination, Super intelligent AI, millions of years of genocide experience, and they normally have the element of surprise.

The Covenant was destroyed by civil war and humans. Pathetic if you ask me.

Covenant AI is just as sophisticated, if not more so, than Reaper AI. And Indoctrination is a slow process, and the Reaper has to be close.

The Covenant were defeated by a civil war and the flood, not humans. Humans would have been totally anhilated.

lol I wasn't even aware Covenant had AI. I'll bet it's not as sophisticated as millions of years old machines that's only purpose is to wipe out all life in the galaxy. That's alot of practice time.

Humans, flood, whatever. They got wiped out by what's essentially a virus and stupid leadership, Starships controlled by AI wouldn't have that happen to them and would take full advantage of their weakness.

A virus that is powerful enough to consume the entire galaxy...and this is just a straight up battle. In a straight fight, the Reapers would be slaughtered.

Just to clear the air.

The Covenant do not have any real level of sophistication in AI. That is one of the key main points as to why Humanity was capable of fighting off the Covenant.

They essentially only had two forms of AI:

1. Mendicant Bias - An AI developed by the Forerunners to combat the flood, it was on a level all on its own. It got turned by the Gravemind, and was defeated by Offensive Bias (more limited, but precise in its directive: defeat Mendicant Bias). It was on-board the Forerunner Dreadnaught that powered High Chairty, and revealed that Humans were actually the Reclaimers. It tried to disengage the Dreadnaught, but was disconnected.

It "fought" against Cortana in High Chairty, but only because she was trying to delay the disengagement.

2. Copied AIs. The Covenant simply copied captured AIs repatedly, which eventually led to corruption and decay. They were hardly sophisticated, and Cortana dealt with them with little effort.

Most combat based VIs were likely more effective than anything the Covenant could muster up. Nevermind a Reaper.

Mmm, fair point. But since when have Reapers been able to hack enemy ships in the first place? If it was so easy why didn't Sovereign just do that at the Battle of the Citadel? Where did the notion that Reapers can hack things remotely come from anyways? EDI is a Reaper-based AI but only could hack systems once it had a physical connection. Reaper's can't hack the Geth either, so this seems like a moot point.

Besides, because Reaper shields don't defend against plasma, a squad of Seraph fighters could take down a Reaper. A Reaper can't hack all of the ships the Covenant have.

[armass]

What does this thread have to do with ME3?

[Ace of Dawn]

111987 wrote...

Mmm, fair point. But since when have Reapers been able to hack enemy ships in the first place? If it was so easy why didn't Sovereign just do that at the Battle of the Citadel? Where did the notion that Reapers can hack things remotely come from anyways? EDI is a Reaper-based AI but only could hack systems once it had a physical connection. Reaper's can't hack the Geth either, so this seems like a moot point.

Besides, because Reaper shields don't defend against plasma, a squad of Seraph fighters could take down a Reaper. A Reaper can't hack all of the ships the Covenant have.

First off, I was merely remarking that your information on the Covenant having "sophisticated-AI" was wrong. This debate is amusing, but I'd rather not get too involved into it. That said, I am more than happy to oblige your questions.

111987 wrote...
But since when have Reapers been able to hack enemy ships in the first place?

Hard to say, mostly because we have rarely seen them combat ships. It could be a factual thing. A common criticism of the movie Independence Day is that Jeff Goldblum's character was able to hack an entire alien network with a Mac. Hacking networks of differing interfaces is next to impossible. Nevermind whether or not you have even had a chance to understand it.

That said, a lot of technology is based on Reaper technology. So assuming the core of it is similar, hacking them wouldn't be too farfetched.

111987 wrote...
If it was so easy why didn't Sovereign just do that at the Battle of the Citadel?

Who's to say he didn't? That said, Sovereign didn't realize Shepard would even be able to open the Citadel, let alone be faced by a fleet. Hacking would be impractical. Really, Sovereign was doing just fine destroying them, since the fleet even contemplated retreating. On top of that, Sovereign was finished when "Saren" was killed. There is just as much evidence for and against to say that Sovereign could have continued on fighting if he had just ignored Shepard.

111987 wrote...
Where did the notion that Reapers can hack things remotely come from
anyways? EDI is a Reaper-based AI but only could hack systems once it
had a physical connection. Reaper's can't hack the Geth either, so this
seems like a moot point.

To clarify, she can hack things within range of their signals. We have no idea if the Reapers can project a large signal due to having a larger power source, or if EDI's has been limited. She clearly hacks into the Collector Ship and a few others on several occassions. And hacking Geth is a trickier thing, since the geth programs quickly correct themselves (that is why they're difficult to hack).

111987 wrote...
Besides, because Reaper shields don't defend against plasma, a squad
of Seraph fighters could take down a Reaper. A Reaper can't hack all of
the ships the Covenant have.

Not really. Yeah, their barriers would likely be bypassed, but the damage done by them would likely be minimal. The hulls of Reapers are hardly frail. And Reaper weapons are more than capable of destroying Covenant ships, both from range and literally being able to grapple them.

I would ultimately just like to say that hacking ships is impractical anytime enemy ships > 1. It would be more practical to fight directly, and hack if there are no other threats.

One more thing:

111987 wrote...
5). FTL does exist in ME, it's just nowhere near the Covenant's
capabilities. This allows them to have pinpoint jumps to anywhere in the
galaxy, and they don't have to worry about drive core discharge.

While you're technically right, you're mostly wrong. The Covenant ships are certainly capapble of some impressive things, including pinpoint jumps, the Covenant don't really get it. They make some solid jumps, sure, but nothing to the degree they are capable of. In fact, their weapons suffer from that same lack of understanding. And their tactics... haha.

Reapers are capable of FTL flight. Discharging cores is only a matter when you don't want to fry your crew. Reapers don't have one. One top of that, they suffer no drawbacks when engaging in FTL while Covenant weapons suffer from travel time. This means it is easy to dodge, disengage, and then attack.

One more thing, if a Covenant ship makes a jump, they're screwed. All systems are temporarily offline while they recover from the jump. Wouldn't take long for the Reapers to notice.

Modifié par Ace of Dawn, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:07 .

[DarthSliver]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Hard to say, mostly because we have rarely seen them combat ships. It could be a factual thing. A common criticism of the movie Independence Day is that Jeff Goldblum's character was able to hack an entire alien network with a Mac. Hacking networks of differing interfaces is next to impossible. Nevermind whether or not you have even had a chance to understand it.

That said, a lot of technology is based on Reaper technology. So assuming the core of it is similar, hacking them wouldn't be too farfetched.

Well to be fair with Independence Day, the Aliens were using Earths Satellites against us to attack us the way they were. They explain in the movie that they couldnt communicate globally  without using Earths Satellites and its that signal Jeff Goldblum's character used to give Earth the upperhand against the Aliens. 

[Computer_God91]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

111987 wrote...

Mmm, fair point. But since when have Reapers been able to hack enemy ships in the first place? If it was so easy why didn't Sovereign just do that at the Battle of the Citadel? Where did the notion that Reapers can hack things remotely come from anyways? EDI is a Reaper-based AI but only could hack systems once it had a physical connection. Reaper's can't hack the Geth either, so this seems like a moot point.

Besides, because Reaper shields don't defend against plasma, a squad of Seraph fighters could take down a Reaper. A Reaper can't hack all of the ships the Covenant have.

First off, I was merely remarking that your information on the Covenant having "sophisticated-AI" was wrong. This debate is amusing, but I'd rather not get too involved into it. That said, I am more than happy to oblige your questions.

111987 wrote...
But since when have Reapers been able to hack enemy ships in the first place?

Hard to say, mostly because we have rarely seen them combat ships. It could be a factual thing. A common criticism of the movie Independence Day is that Jeff Goldblum's character was able to hack an entire alien network with a Mac. Hacking networks of differing interfaces is next to impossible. Nevermind whether or not you have even had a chance to understand it.

That said, a lot of technology is based on Reaper technology. So assuming the core of it is similar, hacking them wouldn't be too farfetched.

111987 wrote...
If it was so easy why didn't Sovereign just do that at the Battle of the Citadel?

Who's to say he didn't? That said, Sovereign didn't realize Shepard would even be able to open the Citadel, let alone be faced by a fleet. Hacking would be impractical. Really, Sovereign was doing just fine destroying them, since the fleet even contemplated retreating. On top of that, Sovereign was finished when "Saren" was killed. There is just as much evidence for and against to say that Sovereign could have continued on fighting if he had just ignored Shepard.

111987 wrote...
Where did the notion that Reapers can hack things remotely come from
anyways? EDI is a Reaper-based AI but only could hack systems once it
had a physical connection. Reaper's can't hack the Geth either, so this
seems like a moot point.

To clarify, she can hack things within range of their signals. We have no idea if the Reapers can project a large signal due to having a larger power source, or if EDI's has been limited. She clearly hacks into the Collector Ship and a few others on several occassions. And hacking Geth is a trickier thing, since the geth programs quickly correct themselves (that is why they're difficult to hack).

111987 wrote...
Besides, because Reaper shields don't defend against plasma, a squad
of Seraph fighters could take down a Reaper. A Reaper can't hack all of
the ships the Covenant have.

Not really. Yeah, their barriers would likely be bypassed, but the damage done by them would likely be minimal. The hulls of Reapers are hardly frail. And Reaper weapons are more than capable of destroying Covenant ships, both from range and literally being able to grapple them.

I would ultimately just like to say that hacking ships is impractical anytime enemy ships > 1. It would be more practical to fight directly, and hack if there are no other threats.

One more thing:

111987 wrote...
5). FTL does exist in ME, it's just nowhere near the Covenant's
capabilities. This allows them to have pinpoint jumps to anywhere in the
galaxy, and they don't have to worry about drive core discharge.

While you're technically right, you're mostly wrong. The Covenant ships are certainly capapble of some impressive things, including pinpoint jumps, the Covenant don't really get it. They make some solid jumps, sure, but nothing to the degree they are capable of. In fact, their weapons suffer from that same lack of understanding. And their tactics... haha.

Reapers are capable of FTL flight. Discharging cores is only a matter when you don't want to fry your crew. Reapers don't have one. One top of that, they suffer no drawbacks when engaging in FTL while Covenant weapons suffer from travel time. This means it is easy to dodge, disengage, and then attack.

One more thing, if a Covenant ship makes a jump, they're screwed. All systems are temporarily offline while they recover from the jump. Wouldn't take long for the Reapers to notice.

Owned.

[Computer_God91]

111987 wrote...

Otherwise I can say 'well the Covenant can just activate the Ark and kill all the Reapers', because the Halo rings would be in the milky way galaxy with the Reapers.

Not exactly. If the Covenant rose to power in the milky way alot of things wouldn't be the same. First off if the Ark and halo rings existed the Reapers would know about them and probably use it to their advantage, in fact it would make reaping a hell of a lot easier every 50k years. Second if the Covenant existed in the milky way their tech would be based on the tech of the reapers anyway thus giving the win again to the reapers.

So like you said the only way this works is a show down that assumes thier aren't from the same galaxy in which case your still beat by other the other posters. This Arguement is pretty pointless anyway.

[Ace of Dawn]

Computer_God91 wrote...
This Arguement is pretty pointless anyway.

This.

Both stories inhabit universes with different "laws". One really couldn't exist in the other's.

[111987]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

111987 wrote...
Besides, because Reaper shields don't defend against plasma, a squad
of Seraph fighters could take down a Reaper. A Reaper can't hack all of
the ships the Covenant have.

Not really. Yeah, their barriers would likely be bypassed, but the damage done by them would likely be minimal. The hulls of Reapers are hardly frail. And Reaper weapons are more than capable of destroying Covenant ships, both from range and literally being able to grapple them.

You raise valid points about hacking, but since there's no evidence suggesting they can or can't, I'm not going to argue the point.

However, this part is just wrong. A single diruptor torpedo was able to destroy a Reaper hull. Since we know Covenant tech in terms of firepower is more powerful than Alliance/Citadel tech, Reapers would be beaten very easily since their main defenses, their shields, are useless.

And Reaper weaponry is not powerful enough to destroy a Covenant ship via conventional means. In the Earth demo, we see a cruiser withstand 2-3 shots from the Reaper's Thanix Cannons. This shows that Reaper weaponry is in the kiloton range, not the megaton range, which is what's needed to destroy a Covenant shield.

@Computer_God9: You are totally changing the parameters of the fight here...

[Omega4RelayResident]

Considering that a lot of things in the Halo universe are more farfetched than that of ME I say Reapers would win.

I dont like the weapon argument because. Reapers actually fire super molten metal apparently. Thanix Cannon was created by studying Sovereign... Reapers have big Thanix Cannons... as far as Covenant fireing Plasma... LOLs... I study physics because I need it for my major... being able to discharge plasma out of a cannon... is litterally something the entire Universe would never see in 1000000 years because plasma does not react the way it is portrayed in the Halo game. We would have to see a new element capable of withstanding energy equivalent to 10000 Megaton Nuke reactions... one after another... not plausible on a moving starship. Look up the Large-Hadron Collider... its a massive machine capable of creating tiny black holes even. It takes 4 Nuclear power plants to power. They were able to create small nanoscopic amounts of plasma... but plasma can not be controlled because it is simply put super-heated Gas... what is a common behavior of gas? Spreading out as far as it can. Plasma found naturally in space is an incredible sight and usually means it has an incredible core of materials that are holding the reaction and keeping it together.

As far as the people arguing about indoctrination... READ YOUR CODEX! There are two types of indoctrination... Fast and Slow. Fast is capable of full indoctrination within hours but the subjects are left as midless thralls as opposed to slow indoctrination which leaves higher functions in tact. Indoctrination uses chemicals, electromagnetic waves, and subliminal suggestion. That is more than enough to indoctrinate the entire Covenant. Even better just drop off a Reaper artifact at the doorstep to the Covenant worlds... more than likely the Prophets (human cataloged as: Perfidia vermis, or Covenant catalogued as: San 'Shyuum) would praise it as a Forerunner artifact and fall to its indoctrination due to their blind religious beliefs. Once indoctrinated the Prophets would steer the downfall of the rest of the Covenant.

Advanced Halo AI (Cortana) v.s. Reaper... yeah she is advanced but she does not have EDIs anti-Reaper algorythms. Cortana also has one drawback... a personality. She has a solid identity and I remember very clearly she was slowly being driven Insane by Gravemind's attempts to assimilate her into the flood. Gravemind was utterly failing at this task and the only way he could succeed is if he got his hands on Master Chief... but her personality was slowly beginning to crack. As of right now we do not know if such psychological duress could even affect the Reapers. Therefore Reapers are far more advanced than Cortana. Also in Halo 2 I remember Cortana being able to hack the entire computer net on High Charity (which is the Covenant "homeworld" I perefer to call it a mobile space station) so much for the Covenant AI being so advanced... dont state OPINIONS as FACTS if they are not. Covenant computers suck.  

The only thing I am not sure about is if the Reaper indoctrination would be capable of affecting the Flood ( Inferi redivivus ) or the Gravemind ( Inferi sententia ). As far as my knowlege of Halo... please dont judge... total fanboy and I will admit to it.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 13 septembre 2011 - 07:16 .

[Computer_God91]

111987 wrote...

@Computer_God9: You are totally changing the parameters of the fight here...

How so? I'm telling you if this fight were to happen how things really would be.