200 réponses à ce sujet

[Computer_God91]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Considering that a lot of things in the Halo universe are more farfetched than that of ME I say Reapers would win.

I dont like the weapon argument because. Reapers actually fire super molten metal apparently. Thanix Cannon was created by studying Sovereign... Reapers have big Thanix Cannons... as far as Covenant fireing Plasma... LOLs... I study physics because I need it for my major... being able to discharge plasma out of a cannon... is litterally something the entire Universe would never see in 1000000 years because plasma does not react the way it is portrayed in the Halo game. We would have to see a new element capable of withstanding energy equivalent to 10000 Megaton Nuke reactions... one after another... not plausible on a moving starship. Look up the Large-Hadron Collider... its a massive machine capable of creating tiny black holes even. It takes 4 Nuclear power plants to power. They were able to create small nanoscopic amounts of plasma... but plasma can not be controlled because it is simply put super-heated Gas... what is a common behavior of gas? Spreading out as far as it can. Plasma found naturally in space is an incredible sight and usually means it has an incredible core of materials that are holding the reaction and keeping it together.

As far as the people arguing about indoctrination... READ YOUR CODEX! There are two types of indoctrination... Fast and Slow. Fast is capable of full indoctrination within hours but the subjects are left as midless thralls as opposed to slow indoctrination which leaves higher functions in tact. Indoctrination uses chemicals, electromagnetic waves, and subliminal suggestion. That is more than enough to indoctrinate the entire Covenant. Even better just drop off a Reaper artifact at the doorstep to the Covenant worlds... more than likely the Prophets (human cataloged as: Perfidia vermis, or Covenant catalogued as: San 'Shyuum) would praise it as a Forerunner artifact and fall to its indoctrination due to their blind religious beliefs. Once indoctrinated the Prophets would steer the downfall of the rest of the Covenant.

Advanced Halo AI (Cortana) v.s. Reaper... yeah she is advanced but she does not have EDIs anti-Reaper algorythms. Cortana also has one drawback... a personality. She has a solid identity and I remember very clearly she was slowly being driven Insane by Gravemind's attempts to assimilate her into the flood. Gravemind was utterly failing at this task and the only way he could succeed is if he got his hands on Master Chief... but her personality was slowly beginning to crack. As of right now we do not know if such psychological duress could even affect the Reapers. Therefore Reapers are far more advanced than Cortana. Also in Halo 2 I remember Cortana being able to hack the entire computer net on High Charity (which is the Covenant "homeworld" I perefer to call it a mobile space station) so much for the Covenant AI being so advanced... dont state OPINIONS as FACTS if they are not. Covenant computers suck.  

The only thing I am not sure about is if the Reaper indoctrination would be capable of affecting the Flood ( Inferi redivivus ) or the Gravemind ( Inferi sententia ). As far as my knowlege of Halo... please dont judge... total fanboy and I will admit to it.

Owned 2.0

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Considering that a lot of things in the Halo universe are more farfetched than that of ME I say Reapers would win.

I dont like the weapon argument because. Reapers actually fire super molten metal apparently. Thanix Cannon was created by studying Sovereign... Reapers have big Thanix Cannons... as far as Covenant fireing Plasma... LOLs... I study physics because I need it for my major... being able to discharge plasma out of a cannon... is litterally something the entire Universe would never see in 1000000 years because plasma does not react the way it is portrayed in the Halo game. We would have to see a new element capable of withstanding energy equivalent to 10000 Megaton Nuke reactions... one after another... not plausible on a moving starship. Look up the Large-Hadron Collider... its a massive machine capable of creating tiny black holes even. It takes 4 Nuclear power plants to power. They were able to create small nanoscopic amounts of plasma... but plasma can not be controlled because it is simply put super-heated Gas... what is a common behavior of gas? Spreading out as far as it can. Plasma found naturally in space is an incredible sight and usually means it has an incredible core of materials that are holding the reaction and keeping it together.

Actually, the plasma the Covenant use is contained in magnetic fields, explaining why it doesn't disspiate.

Omega4RelayResident wrote...
As far as the people arguing about indoctrination... READ YOUR CODEX! There are two types of indoctrination... Fast and Slow. Fast is capable of full indoctrination within hours but the subjects are left as midless thralls as opposed to slow indoctrination which leaves higher functions in tact. Indoctrination uses chemicals, electromagnetic waves, and subliminal suggestion. That is more than enough to indoctrinate the entire Covenant. Even better just drop off a Reaper artifact at the doorstep to the Covenant worlds... more than likely the Prophets (human cataloged as: Perfidia vermis, or Covenant catalogued as: San 'Shyuum) would praise it as a Forerunner artifact and fall to its indoctrination due to their blind religious beliefs. Once indoctrinated the Prophets would steer the downfall of the rest of the Covenant.

Maybe you should re-read the Codex. Proximity to the Reaper or artifact is necesarry, and it's pretty damn close proximity too. Seriously where are you coming up with the idea Reapers can easily indoctrinate the entire Covenant with its billions of individuals? If the Reapers could do this there wouldn't be a Mass Effect 3...come on man.

Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Advanced Halo AI (Cortana) v.s. Reaper... yeah she is advanced but she does not have EDIs anti-Reaper algorythms. Cortana also has one drawback... a personality. She has a solid identity and I remember very clearly she was slowly being driven Insane by Gravemind's attempts to assimilate her into the flood. Gravemind was utterly failing at this task and the only way he could succeed is if he got his hands on Master Chief... but her personality was slowly beginning to crack. As of right now we do not know if such psychological duress could even affect the Reapers. Therefore Reapers are far more advanced than Cortana. Also in Halo 2 I remember Cortana being able to hack the entire computer net on High Charity (which is the Covenant "homeworld" I perefer to call it a mobile space station) so much for the Covenant AI being so advanced... dont state OPINIONS as FACTS if they are not. Covenant computers suck. 

Cortana did not hack the entire system. She infiltrated it and could do some things, but she didn't have full control or anything like that. Besides, High Charity has Mendicant Bias protecting it, which is a Forerunner AI. And ANYTHING Forerunner is just laughably far ahead of the Reapers.

Since Reaper shields can't protect against any of the Covies weapons, all of which could one-shot a Reaper, and since Covenant shields defend against energy yields leagues above what the Reapers are capable of generating, the Covenant curbstomp the Reapers.

[111987]

Computer_God91 wrote...

111987 wrote...

@Computer_God9: You are totally changing the parameters of the fight here...

How so? I'm telling you if this fight were to happen how things really would be.

You're saying because the Reapers are older, the Covenant don't get to have their technology. So that totally ruins the entire point of the debate. The fight is between the Covenant from Halo and the Reapers from Mass Effect, not the Covevant if they were in the MEverse vs. the Reapers.

[Computer_God91]

111987 wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

111987 wrote...

@Computer_God9: You are totally changing the parameters of the fight here...

How so? I'm telling you if this fight were to happen how things really would be.

You're saying because the Reapers are older, the Covenant don't get to have their technology. So that totally ruins the entire point of the debate. The fight is between the Covenant from Halo and the Reapers from Mass Effect, not the Covevant if they were in the MEverse vs. the Reapers.

I'm telling you if they both came from the same galaxy how it would be because of the reapers being older, but sure let's pretend there is a rip in the universes and they somehow met. Resume pointless debate.

Modifié par Computer_God91, 13 septembre 2011 - 07:39 .

[Ace of Dawn]

There are multiple issues here:

1. We are throwing numbers around without any real context about them. Are all Covenant ships capable of generating such power? If so, how long?

And the Orbital MAC Platforms are capable of one-shotting any ship it hits, firing the shell at point four-tenths the speed of light. Reapers are more than capable of generating that, as getting things to go FTL is essentially nothing. They're also not bogged down by shell and reload time, disconnect from energy source, etc etc.

2. The Halo universe is more than capable of throwing whatever numbers they want around with next to zero repercussion, as long as they can properly handwave it. Mass Effect ships are technically still bound by the laws of physics, with eezo just working off of them.

The descriptions and capabilities of Covenant ships are so inconsistent not only within the laws of physics, but within their own canon, that we cannot truly understand how the fight would go.

3. And this is just assuming a straight up fight. The Covenant, more or less, are awful tacticians. They usually only win because they have advanced technology on their side. However, the Reapers are far from outclassed, and significantly more intelligent, responsive, and tactical.

And claiming Forerunners are far ahead of Reapers is completely unfounded. It would be safer to say they are on the same level.

[ODST 3]

The Reapers, easily. The Covenant allowed themselves to be taken down by some slow-witted future humans with an absurd command structure, gasoline powered vehicles with a top speed of somewhere near 40 mph, and weapons less advanced than those used by top military forces today. Actually it was pretty much just one slow-witted future human who did everything with no understanding of what he was doing.

You don't even have to criticize the Covenant if you can criticize the guys who beat them.

Modifié par ODST 3, 13 septembre 2011 - 07:50 .

[111987]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

There are multiple issues here:

1. We are throwing numbers around without any real context about them. Are all Covenant ships capable of generating such power? If so, how long?

And the Orbital MAC Platforms are capable of one-shotting any ship it hits, firing the shell at point four-tenths the speed of light. Reapers are more than capable of generating that, as getting things to go FTL is essentially nothing. They're also not bogged down by shell and reload time, disconnect from energy source, etc etc.

2. The Halo universe is more than capable of throwing whatever numbers they want around with next to zero repercussion, as long as they can properly handwave it. Mass Effect ships are technically still bound by the laws of physics, with eezo just working off of them.

The descriptions and capabilities of Covenant ships are so inconsistent not only within the laws of physics, but within their own canon, that we cannot truly understand how the fight would go.

3. And this is just assuming a straight up fight. The Covenant, more or less, are awful tacticians. They usually only win because they have advanced technology on their side. However, the Reapers are far from outclassed, and significantly more intelligent, responsive, and tactical.

And claiming Forerunners are far ahead of Reapers is completely unfounded. It would be safer to say they are on the same level.

1. Yes, all Covie ships are capable of firepower of that magnitude. How long? I have no idea...Your point about Orbital MACs are false as well. They accelerate a 600 ton slug at 30,000 meters per second. That has an energy yield of 1.17 teratons of energy. Is this a totally ridiculous number? Yes, but it is canon, so it has to be accepted. According the Halo Reach it takes 3 of these shots to take down a Covenant warship. The Reapers aren't even CLOSE to generating that kind of power.

2. I agree, the numbers are ridiculous. But for the purposes of the debate we have to use what we are given...

3. I agree here too. Reapers are better tacticians. However, in a fight, the Covenant would dominate. In a 'confrontation', it may be different.

As for the Forerunner, Reaper thing; seriously, don't even go there...read or look up the information in Halo: Cryptum.

[Kaiser Shepard]

ODST 3 wrote...

The Reapers, easily. The Covenant allowed themselves to be taken down by some slow-witted future humans with an absurd command structure, gasoline powered vehicles with a top speed of somewhere near 40 mph, and weapons less advanced than those used by top military forces today. Actually it was pretty much just one slow-witted future human who did everything with no understanding of what he was doing.

You don't even have to criticize the Covenant if you can criticize the guys who beat them.

Granted, that one human did happen to be physically augmented and aided by by an advanced AI.

Still, I'd argue that the Covenant's undoing was by their own hand; without the Seperatists, the UNSC wouldn't have stood a chance again the full force of the Covenant, or even just the Loyalists. Or the Flood, for that matter.

[Ace of Dawn]

111987 wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...

There are multiple issues here:

1. We are throwing numbers around without any real context about them. Are all Covenant ships capable of generating such power? If so, how long?

And the Orbital MAC Platforms are capable of one-shotting any ship it hits, firing the shell at point four-tenths the speed of light. Reapers are more than capable of generating that, as getting things to go FTL is essentially nothing. They're also not bogged down by shell and reload time, disconnect from energy source, etc etc.

2. The Halo universe is more than capable of throwing whatever numbers they want around with next to zero repercussion, as long as they can properly handwave it. Mass Effect ships are technically still bound by the laws of physics, with eezo just working off of them.

The descriptions and capabilities of Covenant ships are so inconsistent not only within the laws of physics, but within their own canon, that we cannot truly understand how the fight would go.

3. And this is just assuming a straight up fight. The Covenant, more or less, are awful tacticians. They usually only win because they have advanced technology on their side. However, the Reapers are far from outclassed, and significantly more intelligent, responsive, and tactical.

And claiming Forerunners are far ahead of Reapers is completely unfounded. It would be safer to say they are on the same level.

1. Yes, all Covie ships are capable of firepower of that magnitude. How long? I have no idea...Your point about Orbital MACs are false as well. They accelerate a 600 ton slug at 30,000 meters per second. That has an energy yield of 1.17 teratons of energy. Is this a totally ridiculous number? Yes, but it is canon, so it has to be accepted. According the Halo Reach it takes 3 of these shots to take down a Covenant warship. The Reapers aren't even CLOSE to generating that kind of power.

2. I agree, the numbers are ridiculous. But for the purposes of the debate we have to use what we are given...

3. I agree here too. Reapers are better tacticians. However, in a fight, the Covenant would dominate. In a 'confrontation', it may be different.

As for the Forerunner, Reaper thing; seriously, don't even go there...read or look up the information in Halo: Cryptum.

51.6 gigatons of TNT is what I have found the damage done by that shot is. I have also seen close to 10 teratons of energy expended. And different shells too.

Canon. Hah.

This is why this debate is ridiculous. The Covenant can fall back on any sort of ridiculous power they want, because the "canon" is so inconsistent, and unrealistic. The power needed to do everything leaps into the realms of unimaginable.

The Reapers are well grounded in the Mass Effect universe. They just need electricity to use their Mass Effect cores, and then everything works off of that. When we start going into the realm of unrealistic (which both are, but the Covenant so much more so), asking who would win is pointless, because nothing can really be agreed upon (Halo: Reach states that the Covenant are nowhere near capable of glassing entire planets, because the energy output required to do so in the time it is done is well beyond the realm of reality, even by their standards! It's just said as much just to rally behind fear. Then a map pack is released showing the entire planet of Reach glassed. Despite. Saying. It's. Impossible.).

[111987]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

111987 wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...

There are multiple issues here:

1. We are throwing numbers around without any real context about them. Are all Covenant ships capable of generating such power? If so, how long?

And the Orbital MAC Platforms are capable of one-shotting any ship it hits, firing the shell at point four-tenths the speed of light. Reapers are more than capable of generating that, as getting things to go FTL is essentially nothing. They're also not bogged down by shell and reload time, disconnect from energy source, etc etc.

2. The Halo universe is more than capable of throwing whatever numbers they want around with next to zero repercussion, as long as they can properly handwave it. Mass Effect ships are technically still bound by the laws of physics, with eezo just working off of them.

The descriptions and capabilities of Covenant ships are so inconsistent not only within the laws of physics, but within their own canon, that we cannot truly understand how the fight would go.

3. And this is just assuming a straight up fight. The Covenant, more or less, are awful tacticians. They usually only win because they have advanced technology on their side. However, the Reapers are far from outclassed, and significantly more intelligent, responsive, and tactical.

And claiming Forerunners are far ahead of Reapers is completely unfounded. It would be safer to say they are on the same level.

1. Yes, all Covie ships are capable of firepower of that magnitude. How long? I have no idea...Your point about Orbital MACs are false as well. They accelerate a 600 ton slug at 30,000 meters per second. That has an energy yield of 1.17 teratons of energy. Is this a totally ridiculous number? Yes, but it is canon, so it has to be accepted. According the Halo Reach it takes 3 of these shots to take down a Covenant warship. The Reapers aren't even CLOSE to generating that kind of power.

2. I agree, the numbers are ridiculous. But for the purposes of the debate we have to use what we are given...

3. I agree here too. Reapers are better tacticians. However, in a fight, the Covenant would dominate. In a 'confrontation', it may be different.

As for the Forerunner, Reaper thing; seriously, don't even go there...read or look up the information in Halo: Cryptum.

51.6 gigatons of TNT is what I have found the damage done by that shot is. I have also seen close to 10 teratons of energy expended. And different shells too.

Canon. Hah.

This is why this debate is ridiculous. The Covenant can fall back on any sort of ridiculous power they want, because the "canon" is so inconsistent, and unrealistic. The power needed to do everything leaps into the realms of unimaginable.

The Reapers are well grounded in the Mass Effect universe. They just need electricity to use their Mass Effect cores, and then everything works off of that. When we start going into the realm of unrealistic (which both are, but the Covenant so much more so), asking who would win is pointless, because nothing can really be agreed upon (Halo: Reach states that the Covenant are nowhere near capable of glassing entire planets, because the energy output required to do so in the time it is done is well beyond the realm of reality, even by their standards! It's just said as much just to rally behind fear. Then a map pack is released showing the entire planet of Reach glassed. Despite. Saying. It's. Impossible.).

Then use the lowest stated energy yields.

The Covenant still dominate the Reapers.

[Omega4RelayResident]

111987 wrote...

Actually, the plasma the Covenant use is contained in magnetic fields, explaining why it doesn't disspiate.

Magnetic fields... containing Plasma... Plasma = (which is super heated gas)... Dude I will SYD if you find me a gas in the entire universe that is feris.... JUST ONE GAS THAT YOU CAN STICK A MAGNET TO.... I DARE YOU.

111987 wrote...
Maybe you should re-read the Codex. Proximity to the Reaper or artifact is necesarry, and it's pretty damn close proximity too. Seriously where are you coming up with the idea Reapers can easily indoctrinate the entire Covenant with its billions of individuals? If the Reapers could do this there wouldn't be a Mass Effect 3...come on man.

Billions of individuals? Factual statistics at the beginning of Halo 3 presented here: Grunts ( Unggoy, Monachus frigus ) 320 Million, Brute ( Jiralhanae, Servus ferox ) 12.5 Billion, Jackals ( Kig -Yar, Perosus latrunculus ) 978 Million, Prophets ( San 'Shyuum, Perfidia vermis ) 23,831,364 current population count, Drone ( Yanme'E, Turpis rex ) Unknown Population due to incredible rate of breeding, Hunter ( Lekgolo, Ophis congregatio ) 1.980 Trillion. 

I am not including the Elites ( Sangheili, Macto cognatus ) 8.135 billion... due to the schizm and them leaving the Covenant. 

So the Covenant is over a Trillion strong... not Billions. However the flood prooved that it is possible to take over a portion of their forces and wipe them out. The difference between Reaper Indoctrination and Flood Infection is that the Flood works like a virus destroying and altering current cellular structure. Reaper Indoctrination affects brainwave function and neural synapse cognition through the methods I mentioned above. If the flood can do it.... so can the Reapers... different approaches to the same problems may result in similar outcomes. Science does it.

To this I am simply stating that I have read my Codex. I dont need a hundreth read through. Respectfully I must state that YOU GOT SERVED 100: NERDWARS the movie is comming out and I just beat you in it. ROFL 

111987 wrote...

Cortana did not hack the entire system. She infiltrated it and could do some things, but she didn't have full control or anything like that. Besides, High Charity has Mendicant Bias protecting it, which is a Forerunner AI. And ANYTHING Forerunner is just laughably far ahead of the Reapers.

Supposition. NOT FACT. Technically Reapers have wiped out civilizations similar to that of the Covenant and Humanity every 50,000 years for over 30 million years. PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT. Covenant is driven by religious beliefs and not by pure logic. I am pretty dang sure Mendicant Bias does not control the way the Covenant work. Its an AI with restraints in the system in order to SERVE and PROTECT the Covenant.
Which leads me to believe it has restraint in its behavior. Reapers do not have any restraint... multiple minds working as one inside of every Reaper. Technically Reaper control the way the galaxy expands, advances and evolves... Forerunners are capable of creating worlds and wiping out all life lin the universe. Sounds to me like they are not too dissimilar in advancement in technology... the motivations of the two races and the goals are extreemely different.

Forerunners wiped themselves out in order to protect the galaxy against the Flood. Technically Forerunners are failures as where the Reapers harvest life in the galaxy to apparently expand their own race and secure their dominance and until now they have suceeded. I also like to throw in success to failure statistics... it shows each race's margin for acceptable error.

111987 wrote...

Since Reaper shields can't protect against any of the Covies weapons, all of which could one-shot a Reaper, and since Covenant shields defend against energy yields leagues above what the Reapers are capable of generating, the Covenant curbstomp the Reapers.

One Shot a Reaper? Supposition not fact. You dont know how it would react. I can also argue that Reapers were oneshotting ships in ME as well. So what the cocnlusion is that it comes down to a good ol'fashioned gunslinging at high noon between Covenant and the Reapers. DRAW PILGRIM!

Other than the fact that I find the Covenant weapons to be far more outlandish than ME weapons... so in my brain Covenant has no weapons while Reapers do. Because the Needler is so damn realistic.

Honestly you are arguing just because you feel like being disagreeable. I have seen you argue just for aguments sake in other threads but this time I am calling you out on it. You are flat out wrong. Sorry to burst your bubble. I honestly mean no offense by this but truthfully you have not given any sort of facts that hold any weight to convince me or the majority of this thread's readers that you are correct.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 13 septembre 2011 - 08:33 .

[Ace of Dawn]

111987 wrote...

Then use the lowest stated energy yields.

The Covenant still dominate the Reapers.

Yes.

You're right. You're absolutely right.

The inconceivably impossible Covenant force outright annihalates the less-inconceivably so Reaper force.

I think that finishes things up here, no?

Modifié par Ace of Dawn, 13 septembre 2011 - 08:21 .

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...

Actually, the plasma the Covenant use is contained in magnetic fields, explaining why it doesn't disspiate.

Magnetic fields... containing Plasma... Plasma = (which is super heated gas)... Dude I will SYD if you find me a gas in the entire universe that is feris.... JUST ONE GAS THAT YOU CAN STICK A MAGNET TOO.... I DARE YOU.

Ugh...I'm not saying it's realistic. That's not the point of this thread. I'm going off the information given. If you wanna state it's unrealistic, go ahead.

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...
Maybe you should re-read the Codex. Proximity to the Reaper or artifact is necesarry, and it's pretty damn close proximity too. Seriously where are you coming up with the idea Reapers can easily indoctrinate the entire Covenant with its billions of individuals? If the Reapers could do this there wouldn't be a Mass Effect 3...come on man.

Billions of individuals? Factual statistics at the beginning of Halo 3 presented here: Grunts ( Unggoy, Monachus frigus ) 320 Million, Brute ( Jiralhanae, Servus ferox ) 12.5 Billion, Jackals ( Kig -Yar, Perosus latrunculus ) 978 Million, Prophets ( San 'Shyuum, Perfidia vermis ) 23,831,364 current population count, Drone ( Yanme'E, Turpis rex ) Unknown Population due to incredible rate of breeding, Hunter ( Lekgolo, Ophis congregatio ) 1.980 Trillion. 

I am not including the Elites ( Sangheili, Macto cognatus ) 8.135 billion... due to the schizm and them leaving the Covenant. 

So the Covenant is over a Trillion strong... not Billions. However the flood prooved that it is possible to take over a portion of their forces and wipe them out. The difference between Reaper Indoctrination and Flood Infection is that the Flood works like a virus destroying and altering current cellular structure. Reaper Indoctrination affects brainwave function and neural synapse cognition through the methods I mentioned above. If the flood can do it.... so can the Reapers... different approaches to the same problems may result in similar outcomes. Science does it.

To this I am simply stating that I have read my Codex. I dont need a hundreth read through. Respectfully I must state that YOU GOT SERVED 100: NERDWARS the movie is comming out and I just beat you in it. ROFL 

Wait...so you just helped me prove my point??? Okay, well, thank you. So I will amend my previous statement: "Seriously where are you coming up with the idea Reapers can easily
indoctrinate the entire Covenant with its trillions of individuals?"

The rest of your argument is just so flawed I'm not even going to bother responding to it. Like I said, proximity is required. By the time the Reapers got that clase, they'd be slaughtered.

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...

Cortana did not hack the entire system. She infiltrated it and could do some things, but she didn't have full control or anything like that. Besides, High Charity has Mendicant Bias protecting it, which is a Forerunner AI. And ANYTHING Forerunner is just laughably far ahead of the Reapers.

Supposition. NOT FACT. Technically Reapers have wiped out civilizations similar to that of the Covenant and Humanity every 50,000 years for over 30 million years. PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT. Covenant is driven by religious beliefs and not by pure logic. I am pretty dang sure Mendicant Bias does not control the way the Covenant work. Its an AI with restraints in the system in order to SERVE and PROTECT the Covenant.
Which leads me to believe it has restraint in its behavior. Reapers do not have any restraint... multiple minds working as one inside of every Reaper. Technically Reaper control the way the galaxy expands, advances and evolves... Forerunners are capable of creating worlds and wiping out all life lin the universe. Sounds to me like they are not too dissimilar in advancement in technology... the motivations of the two races and the goals are extreemely different.

Forerunners wiped themselves out in order to protect the galaxy against the Flood. Technically Forerunners are failures as where the Reapers harvest life in the galaxy to apparently expand their own race and secure their dominance and until now they have suceeded. I also like to throw in success to failure statistics... it shows each race's margin for acceptable error.

Actually, the Reapers have never wiped out civilizations such as the Covenant, because all previous civilizations in Mass Effect have used Reaper-based tech. Once again, the rest of what you say here is simply incoherent and irrelevant, so, moving on...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...

Since Reaper shields can't protect against any of the Covies weapons, all of which could one-shot a Reaper, and since Covenant shields defend against energy yields leagues above what the Reapers are capable of generating, the Covenant curbstomp the Reapers.

One Shot a Reaper? Supposition not fact. You dont know how it would react. I can also argue that Reapers were oneshotting ships in ME as well. So what the cocnlusion is that ot comes down to a good ol'fashioned gunslinging at high noon between Covenant and the Reapers. DRAW PILGRIM!


Other than the fact that I find the Covenant weapons to be far more outlandish than ME weapons... so in my brain Covenant has no weapons while Reapers do. Because the Needler is so damn realistic.

No, it is a fact. A single Covenant ship energy protector can destroy a Covenant shield with a single shot. A Covenant shield can withstand several megatons worth of force. And these energy projectos bypass Reaper shields. So, unless a Reaper hull can withstand megaton yields of energy, they will be one shotted.

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Honestly you are arguing just because you feel like being disagreeable. I have seen you argue just for aguments sake in other threads but this time I am calling you out on it. You are flat out wrong. Sorry to burst your bubble. I honestly mean no offense by this but truthfully you have not given any sort of facts that hold any weight to convince me or the majority of this thread's readers that you are correct.

I've given you plenty of facts. It's up to you to either successfuly refute them, or accept them. So far you have done neither. Honestly, this isn't even a contest...

[111987]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

111987 wrote...

Then use the lowest stated energy yields.

The Covenant still dominate the Reapers.

Yes.

You're right. You're absolutely right.

The inconceivably impossible Covenant force outright annihalates the less-inconceivably so Reaper force.

I think that finishes things up here, no?

I'm good with that Thanks for trying.

[Omega4RelayResident]

111987 wrote...

I've given you plenty of facts. It's up to you to either successfuly refute them, or accept them. So far you have done neither. Honestly, this isn't even a contest...

I have given plenty of facts to prove you wrong. Everytime I make a logical conclusion to any of my points you conveniently say that "It's a flawed argument." I am litterally in my physics lab right now and everyone is laughing at your responses. The wonders of laptop computers.

Dude whatever I am done here... I just have one question for you... are you related to Sarah Palin at all?

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 13 septembre 2011 - 08:39 .

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...

I've given you plenty of facts. It's up to you to either successfuly refute them, or accept them. So far you have done neither. Honestly, this isn't even a contest...

I have given plenty of facts to prove you wrong. Everytime I make a logical conclusion to any of my points you conveniently say that "It's a flawed argument." I am litterally in my physics lab right now and everyone is laughing at your responses. The wonders of laptop computers.

Dude whatever I am done here... I just have one question for you... are you related to Sarah Palin at all?

You really haven't...you've said that Halo weapons are unrealistic. Which they are. That has nothing to do with the debate though. You haven't explained how Reaper shields defend against megatons worth of energy, or how the Reapers weapons in the kilotons can defeat a Covenant shield. Since you can't, you lose the debate. But thanks for trying

[Omega4RelayResident]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

There are multiple issues here:

1. We are throwing numbers around without any real context about them. Are all Covenant ships capable of generating such power? If so, how long?

And the Orbital MAC Platforms are capable of one-shotting any ship it hits, firing the shell at point four-tenths the speed of light. Reapers are more than capable of generating that, as getting things to go FTL is essentially nothing. They're also not bogged down by shell and reload time, disconnect from energy source, etc etc.

2. The Halo universe is more than capable of throwing whatever numbers they want around with next to zero repercussion, as long as they can properly handwave it. Mass Effect ships are technically still bound by the laws of physics, with eezo just working off of them.

The descriptions and capabilities of Covenant ships are so inconsistent not only within the laws of physics, but within their own canon, that we cannot truly understand how the fight would go.

3. And this is just assuming a straight up fight. The Covenant, more or less, are awful tacticians. They usually only win because they have advanced technology on their side. However, the Reapers are far from outclassed, and significantly more intelligent, responsive, and tactical.

And claiming Forerunners are far ahead of Reapers is completely unfounded. It would be safer to say they are on the same level.

Ace I love you... thank you... totally agree here.

[Ace of Dawn]

111987 wrote...

I've given you plenty of facts. It's up to you to either successfuly refute them, or accept them. So far you have done neither. Honestly, this isn't even a contest...

I have succefully refuted your AI and FTL claims. You had hardly retorted to the FTL claim before deciding you knew to little to continue on.

And the FTL issue is a very important issue. Because despite all the Covenant can allegedly do (despite you actually providing little in the way of concrete facts, just inconsistent numbers which I could undulge), they can't hit something that moves faster than light.

And really, I am not trying at all. Just looking and searching. This isn't a mere "Who would win, a Tiger or a Bear?" It's 2 fictional stories in two different universes. I'll admit, the Covenant are more powerful... but only because they're just laughably so. It defeats the point, really...

Modifié par Ace of Dawn, 13 septembre 2011 - 08:45 .

[111987]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

111987 wrote...

I've given you plenty of facts. It's up to you to either successfuly refute them, or accept them. So far you have done neither. Honestly, this isn't even a contest...

I have succefully refuted your AI and FTL claims. You had hardly retorted to the FTL claim before deciding you knew to little to continue on.

And the FTL issue is a very important issue. Because despite all the Covenant can allegedly do (despite you actually providing little in the way of concrete facts, just inconsistent numbers which I could undulge), they can't hit something that moves faster than light.

I haven't been talking about FTL travel. You're right, I don't know enough about it to comment on it. And you did refute my AI claim.

What you didn't do is explain how the Reapers could destroy the Covenant fleets when their shields and weapons are far inferior to the Covenant.

[Ace of Dawn]

111987 wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...

111987 wrote...

I've given you plenty of facts. It's up to you to either successfuly refute them, or accept them. So far you have done neither. Honestly, this isn't even a contest...

I have succefully refuted your AI and FTL claims. You had hardly retorted to the FTL claim before deciding you knew to little to continue on.

And the FTL issue is a very important issue. Because despite all the Covenant can allegedly do (despite you actually providing little in the way of concrete facts, just inconsistent numbers which I could undulge), they can't hit something that moves faster than light.

I haven't been talking about FTL travel. You're right, I don't know enough about it to comment on it. And you did refute my AI claim.

What you didn't do is explain how the Reapers could destroy the Covenant fleets when their shields and weapons are far inferior to the Covenant.

And I said outright tactics and usage of FTL.

And it has been shown in ME that creating a weapon that far outclasses even the Orbital Defense Platforms is possible (Klendagon and the derelict Reaper).

[Omega4RelayResident]

The Thanix Magnetic-Hydrodynamic Weapon is a turian-developed, miniaturized version of the weapon used by Sovereign during its attack on the Citadel. It uses an electromagnetic field to shape and accelerate a stream of superheated molten metal to relativistic velocities, which then impacts its target and deals horrendous damage. The weapons fire appears as a bright blue beam, very similar to the deadly red trails seen firing from the tips of Sovereign's 'arms' during the Battle of the Citadel. In combat, the Thanix Cannon is strong enough to destroy a Collector cruiser in two shots.

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper  

Even without their indoctrinating influence, Reapers are immensely powerful warships and their technology is devastating. Sovereign’s destructive power was unrivaled in the known galaxy. Each of the "tentacles" extending from its bow was equipped with a powerful "magnetohydrodynamic" weapon which ejects a stream of molten metal at a fraction of the speed of light which could tear through a cruiser in a single sustained burst. Its gigantic spinal-mounted gun was able to rip through the hulls of even the largest of dreadnought-class ships with ease, effortlessly penetrating their kinetic shields. Sovereign's defences included powerful shields that could block the projectiles of an entire fleet, along with an incredibly strong hull. Though they are sentient machines, the Reapers have habitable interiors that can transport a crew, either to help spread their indoctrinated slaves or to allow these slaves to tend to them, probably both. Speculation in the Codex suggests that each individual Reaper has a massive element zero core which, coupled with the likely enormous quantities of energies at its disposal, allows it to generate the staggering mass effect field needed to land on a planet.

However, the Reapers are not invincible. When the Reapers go into states of hibernation between cycles, they are vulnerable. By taking refuge in dark space, the Reapers ensure they will not be discovered by accident and destroyed while they wait for their vanguard to open the Citadel mass relay. A concentrated effort by the fleets of organic races could also destroy a Reaper even if it is at full power: a single fleet managed to destroy Sovereign when its shields and weapons were disabled.

Aside from their formidable firepower and indoctrination, Reapers are also capable of mustering up their own ground forces to attack their enemies: Husks. Husks are aggressive, mindless drones, created from organic beings who are exposed to Reaper technology, such as Dragon's teeth, resulting in their organic bodies being consumed by cybernetics. Husks are used as shock troops and swarm enemies in waves. Husks can be modified and combined to create Abominations, Scions, and Praetorians.

[Copy and Paste]

Win

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 13 septembre 2011 - 08:55 .

[Ace of Dawn]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

The Thanix Magnetic-Hydrodynamic Weapon is a turian-developed, miniaturized version of the weapon used by Sovereign during its attack on the Citadel. It uses an electromagnetic field to shape and accelerate a stream of superheated molten metal to relativistic velocities, which then impacts its target and deals horrendous damage. The weapons fire appears as a bright blue beam, very similar to the deadly red trails seen firing from the tips of Sovereign's 'arms' during the Battle of the Citadel. In combat, the Thanix Cannon is strong enough to destroy a Collector cruiser in two shots.

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper  

Even without their indoctrinating influence, Reapers are immensely powerful warships and their technology is devastating. Sovereign’s destructive power was unrivaled in the known galaxy. Each of the "tentacles" extending from its bow was equipped with a powerful "magnetohydrodynamic" weapon which ejects a stream of molten metal at a fraction of the speed of light which could tear through a cruiser in a single sustained burst. Its gigantic spinal-mounted gun was able to rip through the hulls of even the largest of dreadnought-class ships with ease, effortlessly penetrating their kinetic shields. Sovereign's defences included powerful shields that could block the projectiles of an entire fleet, along with an incredibly strong hull. Though they are sentient machines, the Reapers have habitable interiors that can transport a crew, either to help spread their indoctrinated slaves or to allow these slaves to tend to them, probably both. Speculation in the Codex suggests that each individual Reaper has a massive element zero core which, coupled with the likely enormous quantities of energies at its disposal, allows it to generate the staggering mass effect field needed to land on a planet.

However, the Reapers are not invincible. When the Reapers go into states of hibernation between cycles, they are vulnerable. By taking refuge in dark space, the Reapers ensure they will not be discovered by accident and destroyed while they wait for their vanguard to open the Citadel mass relay. A concentrated effort by the fleets of organic races could also destroy a Reaper even if it is at full power: a single fleet managed to destroy Sovereign when its shields and weapons were disabled.

Aside from their formidable firepower and indoctrination, Reapers are also capable of mustering up their own ground forces to attack their enemies: Husks. Husks are aggressive, mindless drones, created from organic beings who are exposed to Reaper technology, such as Dragon's teeth, resulting in their organic bodies being consumed by cybernetics. Husks are used as shock troops and swarm enemies in waves. Husks can be modified and combined to create Abominations, Scions, and Praetorians.

[Copy and Paste]

Win

Wait... the thing on the Normandy was a miniaturized variant?

[Omega4RelayResident]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Wait... the thing on the Normandy was a miniaturized variant?

YES... which makes me laugh at 111987... his profile pic needs to be that of a Krogan me thinks

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

The Thanix Magnetic-Hydrodynamic Weapon is a turian-developed, miniaturized version of the weapon used by Sovereign during its attack on the Citadel. It uses an electromagnetic field to shape and accelerate a stream of superheated molten metal to relativistic velocities, which then impacts its target and deals horrendous damage. The weapons fire appears as a bright blue beam, very similar to the deadly red trails seen firing from the tips of Sovereign's 'arms' during the Battle of the Citadel. In combat, the Thanix Cannon is strong enough to destroy a Collector cruiser in two shots.

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper  

Even without their indoctrinating influence, Reapers are immensely powerful warships and their technology is devastating. Sovereign’s destructive power was unrivaled in the known galaxy. Each of the "tentacles" extending from its bow was equipped with a powerful "magnetohydrodynamic" weapon which ejects a stream of molten metal at a fraction of the speed of light which could tear through a cruiser in a single sustained burst. Its gigantic spinal-mounted gun was able to rip through the hulls of even the largest of dreadnought-class ships with ease, effortlessly penetrating their kinetic shields. Sovereign's defences included powerful shields that could block the projectiles of an entire fleet, along with an incredibly strong hull. Though they are sentient machines, the Reapers have habitable interiors that can transport a crew, either to help spread their indoctrinated slaves or to allow these slaves to tend to them, probably both. Speculation in the Codex suggests that each individual Reaper has a massive element zero core which, coupled with the likely enormous quantities of energies at its disposal, allows it to generate the staggering mass effect field needed to land on a planet.

However, the Reapers are not invincible. When the Reapers go into states of hibernation between cycles, they are vulnerable. By taking refuge in dark space, the Reapers ensure they will not be discovered by accident and destroyed while they wait for their vanguard to open the Citadel mass relay. A concentrated effort by the fleets of organic races could also destroy a Reaper even if it is at full power: a single fleet managed to destroy Sovereign when its shields and weapons were disabled.

Aside from their formidable firepower and indoctrination, Reapers are also capable of mustering up their own ground forces to attack their enemies: Husks. Husks are aggressive, mindless drones, created from organic beings who are exposed to Reaper technology, such as Dragon's teeth, resulting in their organic bodies being consumed by cybernetics. Husks are used as shock troops and swarm enemies in waves. Husks can be modified and combined to create Abominations, Scions, and Praetorians.

[Copy and Paste]

Win

...you literally just copied and pasted a wiki article, that doesn't address the points I asked you to refute.

What is a person like you doing in a physics lab?

Btw, the Thanix Cannon on the Normandy gives it the firepower equivalent to that of a cruiser...which is still far less than a dreadnaught. So let's say the Reaper's variant is equivalent to TWO dreadnaught shots. That's 70 kilotons of force per every 5 seconds. Pretty impressive...but still way below what's needed to take out a Covvie shield. Not to mention they'd be one-shotted anyways so the Reaper probably woouldn't get more than a few shots off.

Ace of Dawn wrote...

111987 wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...

111987 wrote...

I've
given you plenty of facts. It's up to you to either successfuly refute
them, or accept them. So far you have done neither. Honestly, this isn't
even a contest...

I have succefully refuted your
AI and FTL claims. You had hardly retorted to the FTL claim before
deciding you knew to little to continue on.

And the FTL issue is a
very important issue. Because despite all the Covenant can allegedly do
(despite you actually providing little in the way of concrete facts,
just inconsistent numbers which I could undulge), they can't hit
something that moves faster than light.

I haven't
been talking about FTL travel. You're right, I don't know enough about
it to comment on it. And you did refute my AI claim.

What you
didn't do is explain how the Reapers could destroy the Covenant fleets
when their shields and weapons are far inferior to the Covenant.

And I said outright tactics and usage of FTL.

And
it has been shown in ME that creating a weapon that far outclasses even
the Orbital Defense Platforms is possible (Klendagon and the derelict
Reaper).

Wait, what?

Tactics and FTL? What
tactics could you possibly use that could defeat the Covenant shields
and weapons? Give me something concrete please. And FTL? We have already
agreed that Covenant ships can make pinpoint jumps, and probably the
Reapers can too. So what's your point here? Sorry I'm not trying to be
difficult, but I really don't get what your FTL point has to do with
anything.

Yes, but that weapon can't be mounted onto a Reaper. in Mass Effect, slug power is depedent on the length of the main cannon.

And actually, the UNSC has Super Mac Cannons that yield almost 10 terratons of energy per every five seconds...

[Omega4RelayResident]

Someone needs to fire a petawatt of STFU at this guy.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 13 septembre 2011 - 09:08 .