200 réponses à ce sujet

[111987]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

111987 wrote...

Nah, it is a fact. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Check out some of the bungie forums; those guys all support Halo and know a lot more about the Covenant than I do. Now be a good boy and stop distracting your physics class with video game debates that you know you've lost

It's not fact at all! It is all fiction! ABOUT A WORK OF FICTION! How does one writer thinking up bigger numbers than another writer amount to much of anything at all?

It means that the writer with the bigger numbers beats the writer with the smaller numbers in a fight. That's all.

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

baman wrote...

111987 wrote...

As
I have said many times, this isn't a realism debate. This is a fight
between the Covenant and Reapers, as presented in both games. In that
context, Reapers lose hard.

Even with planet sized FTL
projectiles? I seriously doubt the Covenant could muster anything
against an attack of that magnitude. And if the first engagements show
the Reapers they lack the required hitting power to hurt the Covenant
with conventional weaponry, I'm sure their dastardly robot minds would
be able to come up with a crude but effective plan like this.

We can make up weapons for the sides now? Well, I say that the Covenant made the Death Star.

You Fail.... HAHAHAHAHA

I stopped watching after the guy said he wasn't sure if the Death Star's main laser could destroy Sovereign.

[111987]

baman wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

We can make up weapons for the sides now? Well, I say that the Covenant made the Death Star.

Derp, this is just a potential utilization of the technology the reapers already posses. It's really not that hard to imagine, the mass relays as they appear in the games seem easily convertible to doomsday FTL projectile weapons.

111987 wrote...

I'll just say this; accuracy will make this impossible.

Oh really? Then explain how the mass relays allow a ship to travel accurately in the first place. And if they can accurately transport a ship, why not a planet? It only require more power, and once it's there, it's not so much about hitting the designated target as simply smashing through anything in it's path.
And a indoctrinated suicide fleet could reliable bog down the Covenant fleet in a targeted position long enough for this to fire I'm sure.

Mass Relay's have a drift of several thousand or millions of kilometers in any direction of the Relay. So, yeah, this plan doesn't work at all.

[Computer_God91]

111987 wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

That's not a battle like the thread asks about, that's what would happen if the 2 universes were the same. 

The posters aren't argueing what the thread is about. all the thread asks is who would win Reapers Vs. Covenant. No where does it say if there was a rip in the two universe and they fought who'd win in the middle of space. All it asks is who would win, I say the Reapers cause they control the Milky Way, which is where the Covenant are from. I am not wrong because of the fact that it doesn't specfically ask "who'd win in a fictional battle in the middle of space" it just asks who'd win.

I have even stated earier if that was the case (what everyone is argueing about) that the reapers would still win, through hacking, indoctrination, and repurposing the covenants troops against itself as husk. Also because of what everyone else that is Pro Reapers is saying.

CANNOT BE STOPPED

Okay, wanna use that logic?

Then the Precursors didn't allow the Reapers to exist because they came before that. So Covenant wins.

lol How long have those guys even been around? Nobody knows how long the reapers have been around but we know its long enough for Soveriegn to not even bother saying.

BOOM shot down. Eat it Halo nerd.


If you can't tell I don't take this arguement seriously at all. It is the dumbest arguement anyone can ever dream up. those that like Halo more then ME will take sides with Halo, the others will take sides with ME. Nobody can prove without a shadow of doubt that one would be better then the other, but I take my side with Reapers because they are based in reality unlike the Halo universe that contradicts itself with every game that gets released.

[111987]

Computer_God91 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

That's not a battle like the thread asks about, that's what would happen if the 2 universes were the same. 

The posters aren't argueing what the thread is about. all the thread asks is who would win Reapers Vs. Covenant. No where does it say if there was a rip in the two universe and they fought who'd win in the middle of space. All it asks is who would win, I say the Reapers cause they control the Milky Way, which is where the Covenant are from. I am not wrong because of the fact that it doesn't specfically ask "who'd win in a fictional battle in the middle of space" it just asks who'd win.

I have even stated earier if that was the case (what everyone is argueing about) that the reapers would still win, through hacking, indoctrination, and repurposing the covenants troops against itself as husk. Also because of what everyone else that is Pro Reapers is saying.

CANNOT BE STOPPED

Okay, wanna use that logic?

Then the Precursors didn't allow the Reapers to exist because they came before that. So Covenant wins.

lol How long have those guys even been around? Nobody knows how long the reapers have been around but we know its long enough for Soveriegn to not even bother saying.

BOOM shot down. Eat it Halo nerd.


If you can't tell I don't take this arguement seriously at all. It is the dumbest arguement anyone can ever dream up. those that like Halo more then ME will take sides with Halo, the others will take sides with ME. Nobody can prove without a shadow of doubt that one would be better then the other, but I take my side with Reapers because they are based in reality unlike the Halo universe that contradicts itself with every game that gets released.

You didn't shoot down anything...we don't know how old the Reapers or Precursors are. So I can say the Precursors are older, and you can say the Reapers are older.

[bobdooly]

baman wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

We can make up weapons for the sides now? Well, I say that the Covenant made the Death Star.

Derp, this is just a potential utilization of the technology the reapers already posses. It's really not that hard to imagine, the mass relays as they appear in the games seem easily convertible to doomsday FTL projectile weapons.

111987 wrote...

I'll just say this; accuracy will make this impossible.

Oh really? Then explain how the mass relays allow a ship to travel accurately in the first place. And if they can accurately transport a ship, why not a planet? It only require more power, and once it's there, it's not so much about hitting the designated target as simply smashing through anything in it's path.
And a indoctrinated suicide fleet could reliable bog down the Covenant fleet in a targeted position long enough for this to fire I'm sure.

That wasn't my point. I meant that you can't make up **** when the topic is already sketchy at best. It just makes you look like a 8 year old who draws 50 cannon house sized tanks in his math notebook and seriously thinks the army should start using them.

[baman]

111987 wrote...

Mass Relay's have a drift of several thousand or millions of kilometers in any direction of the Relay. So, yeah, this plan doesn't work at all.

Eh well, I can't be arsed to research around to see if you're wrong, but do you have a source for this info anyways?
If it's true, I suppose that does lessen it's potential. Still, I'm certain a number of such objects fired at the right target would be able to hit. And if not ships, then how about the Covenant worlds, or the star in the system the battle takes place in? At least hitting similarly sized objects would be easier, and removing all the enemies' worlds would certainly bleed them dry provided the Reapers can keep up the attack and hit them all.
And blowing up a star would probably see anything in it's system going down with it.

Anyways, unreliable as it may be, the technology exists, and if further perfected as a weapon, it would give the Reapers the definite edge in raw power. And I don't know about you, but I'd imagine a collective of sentient AIs like they are wouldn't need a awfully lot of time to develop this as a weapon.

bobdooly wrote...

That wasn't my point. I meant that you can't make up **** when the topic
is already sketchy at best. It just makes you look like a 8 year old
who draws 50 cannon house sized tanks in his math notebook and seriously
thinks the army should start using them.

Except...I'm not making anything up. All the prerequisite for this exists for the Reapers already, it's just a matter of them using it as a weapon.
And correct me if I am wrong, but there is hardly any ROE for, as you say, sketchy thread like this. 
Besides, we're arguing about bloody fictional aliens from two different franchises. Anything other than a causal comment here probably makes us look like 8 year olds...

Modifié par baman, 13 septembre 2011 - 11:27 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

111987 wrote...

Nah, it is a fact. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Check out some of the bungie forums; those guys all support Halo and know a lot more about the Covenant than I do. Now be a good boy and stop distracting your physics class with video game debates that you know you've lost

Of course Bungie forumgoers argue for Bungie.... they have about as much bias as we do. Then again Bungie fans are the Tea Party of the video game nerd world where miraculously they think they are always correct.

[Computer_God91]

111987 wrote...

You didn't shoot down anything...we don't know how old the Reapers or Precursors are. So I can say the Precursors are older, and you can say the Reapers are older.

Yup, we both win. Which means this arguement is STILL pointless.

[111987]

baman wrote...

111987 wrote...

Mass Relay's have a drift of several thousand or millions of kilometers in any direction of the Relay. So, yeah, this plan doesn't work at all.

Eh well, I can't be arsed to research around to see if you're wrong, but do you have a source for this info anyways?
If it's true, I suppose that does lessen it's potential. Still, I'm certain a number of such objects fired at the right target would be able to hit. And if not ships, then how about the Covenant worlds, or the star in the system the battle takes place in? At least hitting similarly sized objects would be easier, and removing all the enemies' worlds would certainly bleed them dry provided the Reapers can keep up the attack and hit them all.
And blowing up a star would probably see anything in it's system going down with it.

Anyways, unreliable as it may be, the technology exists, and if further perfected as a weapon, it would give the Reapers the definite edge in raw power. And I don't know about you, but I'd imagine a collective of sentient AIs like they are wouldn't need a awfully lot of time to develop this as a weapon.

It's in the Codex. The Reaper's don't know where the Covenant planets are, and High Charity is mobile.

[Omega4RelayResident]

111987 wrote...

I stopped watching after the guy said he wasn't sure if the Death Star's main laser could destroy Sovereign.

Kinda like you stop paying attention to peoples arguments when you realize they disagree with you. You proved my point in that there is no point in conversing with you... you cant even finish a 5 minute video.

I a Star Wars fanatic dont want to believe what he said... but he said it... and is entitled to an opinion.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Chuck Norris can beat the Covenant.

[bobdooly]

baman wrote...

111987 wrote...

Mass Relay's have a drift of several thousand or millions of kilometers in any direction of the Relay. So, yeah, this plan doesn't work at all.

Eh well, I can't be arsed to research around to see if you're wrong, but do you have a source for this info anyways?
If it's true, I suppose that does lessen it's potential. Still, I'm certain a number of such objects fired at the right target would be able to hit. And if not ships, then how about the Covenant worlds, or the star in the system the battle takes place in? At least hitting similarly sized objects would be easier, and removing all the enemies' worlds would certainly bleed them dry provided the Reapers can keep up the attack and hit them all.
And blowing up a star would probably see anything in it's system going down with it.

Anyways, unreliable as it may be, the technology exists, and if further perfected as a weapon, it would give the Reapers the definite edge in raw power. And I don't know about you, but I'd imagine a collective of sentient AIs like they are wouldn't need a awfully lot of time to develop this as a weapon.

They had millions of years. Apparently they do need all that time, assuming that your plan is even feasible (which it's not).

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...

I stopped watching after the guy said he wasn't sure if the Death Star's main laser could destroy Sovereign.

Kinda like you stop paying attention to peoples arguments when you realize they disagree with you. You proved my point in that there is no point in conversing with you... you cant even finish a 5 minute video.

I a Star Wars fanatic dont want to believe what he said... but he said it... and is entitled to an opinion.

Actually I refuted almost every point made against the Covenant.

Of course he is entitled to an opinion. But that doesn't make it right.

He's saying the Death Star's main gun can't pierce a Reaper's shields? Are you kidding me?

That's like saying a human could survive a head on nuclear explosion. It's an opinion, but it's wrong.

[baman]

111987 wrote...

It's in the Codex. The Reaper's don't know where the Covenant planets are, and High Charity is mobile.

Oh well, I'll take your word for it.

But assuming that the Reapers don't know where the Covenant planets are is a pretty sudden jump. Either way though, a indoctrinated crewman or two would probably leave any required breadcrumb trail.

As for being mobile, I fear that helps little if it's caught in a star going nova.

Anyways, this is of course speculation as any VS thread like this ends up, but the technology exists, and I don't think it would be too hard for the Reapers to turn it into a weapon. And if they could just make it sufficiently reliable quickly enough, they would have more than a fair fighting chance against the Covenant.

[111987]

baman wrote...

111987 wrote...

It's in the Codex. The Reaper's don't know where the Covenant planets are, and High Charity is mobile.

Oh well, I'll take your word for it.

But assuming that the Reapers don't know where the Covenant planets are is a pretty sudden jump. Either way though, a indoctrinated crewman or two would probably leave any required breadcrumb trail.

As for being mobile, I fear that helps little if it's caught in a star going nova.

Anyways, this is of course speculation as any VS thread like this ends up, but the technology exists, and I don't think it would be too hard for the Reapers to turn it into a weapon. And if they could just make it sufficiently reliable quickly enough, they would have more than a fair fighting chance against the Covenant.

I don't like the idea of the Reaper's being able to develop some superweapon they aren't said to have had...I mean, I could say by the time they finished that weapon, the Covenant could have traveled to the Ark and activated the Halo rings. It just gets unwieldy.

[Ace of Dawn]

111987 wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...


A few seconds is all they need, really. Go in, attack at whatever distance, and go from there.

Plus, there's also some charge up time involved in the attack, and the shields are lowered at that point in the shielding. Not saying it's entirely viable, but Reapers could certainly attack from there if they planned things out. One Reaper forces the ship to fire and scrams, another fires himself.

FTL has a charge up time too.

I guess we aren't going to agree here. You don't think the Covies are fast enough to hit the Reapers, I do.

hasn't been presented as such.

Getting away from the Collector Base the first (?) time, anytime you travel too far outside the system (Emergency FTL jump), and a few other examples. The only "charge up time" is involved with human input in doing so.

And you're right, I don't think they are.

Also, just a random thought, how about we change the battlefield to some place a bit less empty?

Near a particularly large planet? Or perhaps a gas giant? Where all Covenant weapons would be rendered useless?

[Omega4RelayResident]

111987 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...

I stopped watching after the guy said he wasn't sure if the Death Star's main laser could destroy Sovereign.

Kinda like you stop paying attention to peoples arguments when you realize they disagree with you. You proved my point in that there is no point in conversing with you... you cant even finish a 5 minute video.

I a Star Wars fanatic dont want to believe what he said... but he said it... and is entitled to an opinion.

Actually I refuted almost every point made against the Covenant.

Of course he is entitled to an opinion. But that doesn't make it right.

He's saying the Death Star's main gun can't pierce a Reaper's shields? Are you kidding me?

That's like saying a human could survive a head on nuclear explosion. It's an opinion, but it's wrong.

If you watch the documentary "White Light, Black Rain" they interview suvivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki... yes that is right I said survivors.... no matter what you ever say you are always wrong...

This amuses me now.

P.S. Dont watch the documentary if you are a very squemish person... it aint pretty to see.

[baman]

bobdooly wrote...

They had millions of years. Apparently they do need all that time, assuming that your plan is even feasible (which it's not).

Well what does that prove? Maybe they've never had to use something like this before, everything in the ME universe is after all easily destroyed with their conventional weaponry. I doubt they'd perfect every conceivable weapon just in case some future scenario required it.
And where are you coming from saying it's not feasible? At least provide something with a semblance of a argument if you want to argue.

111987 wrote...

I don't like the idea of the Reaper's
being able to develop some superweapon they aren't said to have had...I
mean, I could say by the time they finished that weapon, the Covenant
could have traveled to the Ark and activated the Halo rings. It just
gets unwieldy.

Sure, I see what you mean. Still, my point was mainly that the particular kind of FTL in the ME universe would allow such weapons, whilst the slipstream most likely would not, thus being a potential exploitation for the Reapers.

Modifié par baman, 13 septembre 2011 - 11:42 .

[capn233]

There is some overrating of the Halo weapons.

c~ 300,000,000 m/s, 1kT TNT equiv ~ 4.18e12 J

First the MAC. 600ton at 30,000m/s (0.0001c). Relativistic kinetic energy = 2.7e14 J or about 64kT

Mass Effect: 20kg at 3,897,301m/s (0.013 c). Relativistic kinetic energy = 1.5e14 J or 36kT.

Dunno why the gunny says it is 38kT....

So yeah Halo MAC is about 2x as powerful. It isn't hugely more powerful. The crappy Pillar of Autumn with its 3 shot MAC could take out the shields and disable most Covenant ships in one "burst." But, it had lightened projectiles of an unspecified mass. There is no reason to think that the Covenant shields are all that much better than Mass Effect barriers, specifically Reaper barriers when Sovereign was getting hammered by the 5th fleet for a while before his barriers went down.

Also don't forget that Covenant have to drop part of their shields to even fire their plasma "torpedoes." A well aimed shot with a Thanix or Reaper beam in that point will slice a Covenant ship in half.

Modifié par capn233, 13 septembre 2011 - 11:41 .

[Ace of Dawn]

111987 wrote...

baman wrote...

111987 wrote...

It's in the Codex. The Reaper's don't know where the Covenant planets are, and High Charity is mobile.

Oh well, I'll take your word for it.

But assuming that the Reapers don't know where the Covenant planets are is a pretty sudden jump. Either way though, a indoctrinated crewman or two would probably leave any required breadcrumb trail.

As for being mobile, I fear that helps little if it's caught in a star going nova.

Anyways, this is of course speculation as any VS thread like this ends up, but the technology exists, and I don't think it would be too hard for the Reapers to turn it into a weapon. And if they could just make it sufficiently reliable quickly enough, they would have more than a fair fighting chance against the Covenant.

I don't like the idea of the Reaper's being able to develop some superweapon they aren't said to have had...I mean, I could say by the time they finished that weapon, the Covenant could have traveled to the Ark and activated the Halo rings. It just gets unwieldy.

The people that fired at Klendagon certainly did it "based off of Reaper tech"

[111987]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...

I stopped watching after the guy said he wasn't sure if the Death Star's main laser could destroy Sovereign.

Kinda like you stop paying attention to peoples arguments when you realize they disagree with you. You proved my point in that there is no point in conversing with you... you cant even finish a 5 minute video.

I a Star Wars fanatic dont want to believe what he said... but he said it... and is entitled to an opinion.

Actually I refuted almost every point made against the Covenant.

Of course he is entitled to an opinion. But that doesn't make it right.

He's saying the Death Star's main gun can't pierce a Reaper's shields? Are you kidding me?

That's like saying a human could survive a head on nuclear explosion. It's an opinion, but it's wrong.

If you watch the documentary "White Light, Black Rain" they interview suvivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki... yes that is right I said survivors.... no matter what you ever say you are always wrong...

This amuses me now.

P.S. Dont watch the documentary if you are a very squemish person... it aint pretty to see.

You totally missed the point of that, didn't you?

[Omega4RelayResident]

capn233 wrote...

There is some overrating of the Halo weapons.

c~ 300,000,000 m/s, 1kT TNT equiv ~ 4.18e12 J

First the MAC. 600ton at 30,000m/s (0.0001c). Relativistic kinetic energy = 2.7e14 J or about 64kT

Mass Effect: 20kg at 3,897,301m/s (0.013 c). Relativistic kinetic energy = 1.5e14 J or 36kT.

Dunno why the gunny says it is 38kT....

So yeah Halo MAC is about 2x as powerful. It isn't hugely more powerful. The crappy Pillar of Autumn with its 3 shot MAC could take out the shields and disable most Covenant ships in one "burst." But, it had lightened projectiles of an unspecified mass. There is no reason to think that the Covenant shields are all that much better than Mass Effect barriers, specifically Reaper barriers when Sovereign was getting hammered by the 5th fleet for a while before his barriers went down.

Also don't forget that Covenant have to drop part of their shields to even fire their plasma "torpedoes." A well aimed shot with a Thanix or Reaper beam in that point will slice a Covenant ship in half.

Well put good sir

[bobdooly]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

111987 wrote...

I stopped watching after the guy said he wasn't sure if the Death Star's main laser could destroy Sovereign.

Kinda like you stop paying attention to peoples arguments when you realize they disagree with you. You proved my point in that there is no point in conversing with you... you cant even finish a 5 minute video.

I a Star Wars fanatic dont want to believe what he said... but he said it... and is entitled to an opinion.

Actually I refuted almost every point made against the Covenant.

Of course he is entitled to an opinion. But that doesn't make it right.

He's saying the Death Star's main gun can't pierce a Reaper's shields? Are you kidding me?

That's like saying a human could survive a head on nuclear explosion. It's an opinion, but it's wrong.

If you watch the documentary "White Light, Black Rain" they interview suvivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki... yes that is right I said survivors.... no matter what you ever say you are always wrong...

This amuses me now.

P.S. Dont watch the documentary if you are a very squemish person... it aint pretty to see.

The Death Star blew up a planet. I doubt that a Reaper could survive a shot that.

[Omega4RelayResident]

111987 wrote...



You totally missed the point of that, didn't you?

No I caught the point... its just that every time you speak you either admit to ignoring the evidence presented for other intelligent people here on the forums or you end up pulling one of your feet out of your mouth.

Thats what I was pointing out.

[Ace of Dawn]

Wait... Now we're bring Star Wars into this?!

I think this entire topic has just cross the ridiculous event horizon...