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[Dunmer of Redoran]

Jack "TIM" Harper will capture her, reveal his first name is Charlie, and they will immediately have sex. It will then be revealed he's had sex with thousands of other asari and that he has a loser brother and stupid, hefty nephew who live on his station with him. Tune in every week on CBS to see their exciting adventures in Two and a Half Illusive Men .

[BlueMagitek]

^

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but that isn't really fair; you can say the same thing about the aliens on other worlds being harvested.

[TheMarshal]

laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

laecraft wrote...


I'll simplify it. If you could save either humanity or the rest of the galaxy, what would you choose?

This isn't the Arrival non-choice, where you lose that colony either way. You can save humanity, or you can save everyone else. But not both.

There's more of everyone else than there is humanity. So, the rest of the galaxy.

Because they're more numerous than humanity? Do you believe that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?

Did you destroy the rachni?

Did you keep David in Project Overlord?

Because I believe I'm speaking to a Renegade, here. No...actually, it's someone even more cold. Someone who goes by numbers rather than principles.

StarGateGod wrote...

laecraft wrote...

I'll simplify it. If you could save either humanity or the rest of the galaxy, what would you choose?

This
isn't the Arrival non-choice, where you lose that colony either way.
You can save humanity, or you can save everyone else. But not both.

thats eay as hell you save the galaxy, even if this was real life id sacrifice myself to save the world

Ah, see, there's a little difference here. Those humans on Earth didn't volunteer to be sacrificed. They don't want to die. They really don't want to. They disagree with your decision, very much. They're screaming in agony and cursing your name for abandoning them, for betraying your own species, and for leaving them to a slow, torturous death as the accelerated waves of dark energy are gathering in strength and frying the Sol system and the Earth.

They're seeking shelter, in vain. And they send messages to their loved ones on the colonies. And they're still trying to communicate with you, asking you why. You're human, just like them. Or you were.

But it's okay, because you can't see them crying and panicking and begging you for help. It's okay because you can't hear their howls of agony, like you would with destroyng the rachni. It's okay because you can't hear them pleading with you to "make it stop."

You Paragon people are perfectly fine with slaughter based on war arithmetic when you can't see the faces of your victims.

Yeah, let's instead not destroy the Solar system and toil in the vain attempt that there might be another way.  I'm sure the Reapers will hold off on their harvesting of all organic life in the meantime.  THOSE people will certainly be glad we decided to try and find another way.  I'm sure they won't curse our name or experience any agony.  And if not, we can always just ignore that part since it doesn't fit into your little false-dichotomy parable.

[Xilizhra]

Did you destroy the rachni?

The rachni's existence didn't encroach on the needs of the many.

Did you keep David in Project Overlord?

The geth aren't hostile for the most part, the ones that are hostile were... fixed, and letting Cerberus control geth strikes me as a horrible idea anyway.

Because I believe I'm speaking to a Renegade, here. No...actually, it's someone even more cold. Someone who goes by numbers rather than principles.

I don't believe "humans first" is a valid principle.

You Paragon people are perfectly fine with slaughter based on war arithmetic when you can't see the faces of your victims.

Also, here's a hint, when it's actually necessary and not just expedient.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 14 septembre 2011 - 02:55 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

BlueMagitek wrote...

^

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but that isn't really fair; you can say the same thing about the aliens on other worlds being harvested.

Then they should've done something about the Reapers when they the chance. So far it's just humanity that has been working towards stopping the Reaper invasiond. Just us who have been sacrificing. And thus just humanity should continue to sacrifice?

No, I will not tolerate such an injustice.

Edit: Also, no need to ask Xili which choices she made; she goes Paragon all the time.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 14 septembre 2011 - 02:58 .

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

^

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but that isn't really fair; you can say the same thing about the aliens on other worlds being harvested.

Then they should've done something about the Reapers when they the chance. So far it's just humanity that has been working towards stopping the Reaper invasiond. Just us who have been sacrificing. And thus just humanity should continue to sacrifice?

No, I will not tolerate such an injustice.

Killing many times more people to save nothing but your own species out of spite is not justice.

[BlueMagitek]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

^

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but that isn't really fair; you can say the same thing about the aliens on other worlds being harvested.

Then they should've done something about the Reapers when they the chance. So far it's just humanity that has been working towards stopping the Reaper invasiond. Just us who have been sacrificing. And thus just humanity should continue to sacrifice?

No, I will not tolerate such an injustice.

Edit: Also, no need to ask Xili which choices she made; she goes Paragon all the time.

Technically it's just Shepard, a rogue human Black Ops group and a sympathetic Admiral.  I wouldn't call that all of humanity, especially when humanity is using the work done by former alien species (Protheans and species prior) in addition to their own.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Killing many times more people to save nothing but your own species out of spite is not justice.

They had their chance. I'm not choosing humanity because they're my own species, but because only parts of our race have actively contributed to stopping the Reaper threat, while both the alien Councils continued to ignore our warnings.

If the tables were turned, I'd damn well sacrifice the cradle of humanity if favor of race X who COULD get their crap together.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 14 septembre 2011 - 03:19 .

[Xilizhra]

ee, this remark about the rest of the galaxy being more numerous than humanity is what bugs me. Suppose the Reapers are more numerous than the rest of the galaxy. Is it okay to destroy the galaxy to let the Reapers live, then?

Well, they're the aggressors.

Then there are people out there who claim that they're fighting for organic life as a whole. That's just laughable. Organic life is not threatened in the slightest. The Reapers will harvest it, and the next cycle, organic life will develop again. It's eternal. It's like fighting for the wheat when the harvester comes. New one will grow. New ones always grow. The Reapers will never want it to end.

Irrelevant. What I'm fighting for is all of the people who exist now, of all species.

Then I have to make the same choice between humanity and turians. This choice has more morality to it. If I pick the turians, it means the asari who died to save humanity died in vain. So I choose humanity again. Thus, using the iteration, I go through the entire galaxy and choose humanity every time.

This has nothing to do with morality. It's called the sunk cost fallacy; the fact that you've already lost X on Y doesn't make Y more valuable, it just means that X is gone.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 14 septembre 2011 - 03:38 .

[BlueMagitek]

Technically you've already committed genocide by killing Sovereign, and each Reaper holds the last bit of an entire species, so.... yeah. >_>

[Kaiser Shepard]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Technically you've already committed genocide by killing Sovereign, and each Reaper holds the last bit of an entire species, so.... yeah. >_>

Those species were already long dead.

And just killing the last bit of something doesn't constitute genocide.

[OmegaXI]

Well if TIM takes over Omega could this explain where he gets all of his Cerberus troops? I mean reading the Enemy descriptions on the ME3 N7OPS the descriptions  it does not say anything about the cerberus troops being human.

Thats sounds more like TIM's thinking indoctrinate humans and aliens living on Omega to fight for Cerberus. He gets a space station and he gets a pretty good amount of test subjects and canon fodder . I mean why would TIM just kill the aliens when he could actual use them, he's cold and calculating this would be more his style and just wiping out everyone on Omega.

Modifié par OmegaXI, 14 septembre 2011 - 03:53 .

[Seboist]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Technically you've already committed genocide by killing Sovereign, and each Reaper holds the last bit of an entire species, so.... yeah. >_>

And by killing the Thorian and Collectors.

[Kaiser Shepard]

OmegaXI wrote...

Well if TIM takes over Omega could this explain where he gets all of his Cerberus troops? I mean reading the Enemy descriptions on the ME3 N7OPS the descriptions  it does not say anything about the cerberus troops being human.

Clones.

More specifically, your clones.

[BlueMagitek]

^ That's true. Though the Thorian might not be completely dead. It just seems like a shame that Bioware dropped that storyline, especially as it was some form of organic Reaper.

Perhaps genocide isn't the right word. Xenocide? Bah, either way, you're responsible for killing off an entire alien species.

The point is, Shepard has already done some reprehensible things no matter how you play. ~_^

[Kaiser Shepard]

There was nothing morally reprehensible about killing the Thorian, rachni or Collectors.

[TheMarshal]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

There was nothing morally reprehensible about killing the Thorian, rachni or Collectors.

Yeah.  I mean it's not like they were human or anything!

[Seboist]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

There was nothing morally reprehensible about killing the Thorian, rachni or Collectors.

The Thorian was minding it's own business until Exogeni and Saren started disturbing and pissing it off. Then Shepard and his gang of thugs brutally murdered the poor plant in it's own home.

[Kaiser Shepard]

TheMarshal wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

There was nothing morally reprehensible about killing the Thorian, rachni or Collectors.

Yeah.  I mean it's not like they were human or anything!

Who said anything about killing them because they aren't humans?

Seboist wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

There was nothing morally reprehensible about killing the Thorian, rachni or Collectors.

The Thorian was minding it's own business until Exogeni and Saren started disturbing and pissing it off. Then Shepard and his gang of thugs brutally murdered the poor plant in it's own home.

I love you. <3

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 14 septembre 2011 - 04:13 .

[MisterJB]

Seboist wrote...
The Thorian was minding it's own business until Exogeni and Saren started disturbing and pissing it off. Then Shepard and his gang of thugs brutally murdered the poor plant in it's own home.

The "poor" plant was enslaving a human colony.

[TheMarshal]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

There was nothing morally reprehensible about killing the Thorian, rachni or Collectors.

Yeah.  I mean it's not like they were human or anything!

Who said anything about killing them because they aren't humans?

You said it wasn't morally reprehensible to kill any of the three races that you mentioned.  This came not too long after you made it clear that you'd be willing to sacrifice other races in order to save humanity.  I was merely drawing a conclusion as to your line of reasoning.

[Kaiser Shepard]

TheMarshal wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

There was nothing morally reprehensible about killing the Thorian, rachni or Collectors.

Yeah.  I mean it's not like they were human or anything!

Who said anything about killing them because they aren't humans?

You said it wasn't morally reprehensible to kill any of the three races that you mentioned.  This came not too long after you made it clear that you'd be willing to sacrifice other races in order to save humanity.  I was merely drawing a conclusion as to your line of reasoning.

I also said that I would choose any other race over humanity were the roles reversed, not too long after that.

Those three get killed off because they're incompatible with galactic society by their very nature, because they're hivemind species.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 14 septembre 2011 - 04:19 .

[TheMarshal]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Those three get killed off because they're incompatible with galactic society by their very nature, because they're hivemind species.

Incompatible with galactic society?  That's an interesting way of looking at things.  How do you determine when a species is incomatible?  Humans and asari are the only species with five fingers on each hand.  Turians and quarians have a completely different amino physiology than the rest of the galaxy.  Quarians and volus need to wear life-support systems wherever they go.  Hanar are flying jellyfish, asari only have one gender, and the elcor walk on their hands.  Where's the line?