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[The Xand]

Did anyone else see the parallels between the Dalish Elves and Travellers? In DA 2 they changed the accents of the Dalish to Northern Irish, so I can sort of see where they're coming from with the Irish accents though since in Britain there are lots of gypsies (politically correct term now being "travellers") that are Irish and have the sort of accents you hear the Dalish elves with. They even have their own jargon that mixes english and their language much like the elves. Another thing is that in Britain these travellers are seen as undesirable because they set up camp in places where they're not wanted, and aren't trusted in the slightest given that they're rumoured to have a tendency to liberate what they can and are seen as quite rough, and they are in turn quite untrusting of those not of their group.

http://en.wikipedia....Irish_Traveller



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta

Modifié par The Xand, 13 septembre 2011 - 01:39 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Their accents are actually supposed to be Welsh. But generally, yeah, I noticed the similarities between them and the Travelers.

[The Xand]

Lol, were they bollocks Welsh. Merril was the only Dalish to have a Welsh accent oddly enough, the rest had Northern Irish accents.

They all had accents like this

Here's Keeper Marethari

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I understand what you're saying, I'm just saying they were supposed to be Welsh, at least in the pre-release developer's comments and such.

Since I really didn't pay much attention to the Dalish or talk to them much, I don't remember their voices much. I remember two who sounded more Irish than Welsh, but I don't remember much beyond that. Merril was the only Dalish whose voice I remember distinctly and clearly, and yeah, she's definitely Welsh. My stepson lives just outside Cardiff, and she does sound very much like alot of the locals there.

But back to your original point, yeah, in origins, I always got the Traveler vibe from them, especially when I played the Origin, and heard references to people trying to chase them off when they camp somewhere too long for the humans liking.

[The Xand]

Absolutely all of the Dalish bar Merril had distinctive Irish accents unfortunately. I'd really much rather they'd all been Welsh like Merril since it's a lovelier accent, but there you go. Maybe they plan on introducing one of the other races at some point and utilising Welsh accents for them? The Avvars in particular I can see using either Welsh or Scottish accents since they were meant to have quite a Celtic feel to them, but I can't see any DLC for DA2 including them any time soon lol.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The Xand wrote...

Absolutely all of the Dalish bar Merril had distinctive Irish accents unfortunately. I'd really much rather they'd all been Welsh like Merril since it's a lovelier accent, but there you go. Maybe they plan on introducing one of the other races at some point and utilising Welsh accents for them? The Avvars in particular I can see using either Welsh or Scottish accents since they were meant to have quite a Celtic feel to them, but I can't see any DLC for DA2 including them any time soon lol.

I'll have to watch for that next time I play. As I said, I pretty much ignored most of the Dalish unless necessary, since I really hated the new DA2 elf look, and I mostly think of Merril's voice. And I really don't remember what they sounded like. The Avvars, if anything, seem like they would be heavily Scottish in character, primarily Highlands Scottish. From what I read in the Calling and seen in the game, they do seem to have a more Highland than Vales feel to them. If I were to choose an ethnic group that might fit the Welsh accent, it would be the Chasind, I think.

[The Xand]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I'll have to watch for that next time I play. As I said, I pretty much ignored most of the Dalish unless necessary, since I really hated the new DA2 elf look, and I mostly think of Merril's voice. And I really don't remember what they sounded like. The Avvars, if anything, seem like they would be heavily Scottish in character, primarily Highlands Scottish. From what I read in the Calling and seen in the game, they do seem to have a more Highland than Vales feel to them. If I were to choose an ethnic group that might fit the Welsh accent, it would be the Chasind, I think.

That would make sense as a means of differentiating between them actually. I mean, at one point there was the Alamarri, then they split into three groups, Avvars, Chasind and Fereldans and since all three share a common heritage (like the Scots, English and Welsh all being British) it would be cool to have the Avvars and Chasind have Scots and Welsh accents, especially since the Fereldens are portrayed as being very English and the most populous, powerful and "civilised".

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The Xand wrote...

That would make sense as a means of differentiating between them actually. I mean, at one point there was the Alamarri, then they split into three groups, Avvars, Chasind and Fereldans and since all three share a common heritage (like the Scots, English and Welsh all being British) it would be cool to have the Avvars and Chasind have Scots and Welsh accents, especially since the Fereldens are portrayed as being very English and the most populous, powerful and "civilised".

My thoughts exactly. That's generally the feel Ferelden was supposed to have, and would be interesting to develop. Hell, i wish we could have interacted with more Avvars and Chasind, and visited their encampments and such. We had only that one dude in the Calling that was Avvar, and very little interaction or knowledge of the Chasind beyond Morrigans comments. They seem to be numerous enough, and if the Wardens can manage to form treaties with Dalish elves, i don't see why they didn't court the barbarians as well.

[The Xand]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

My thoughts exactly. That's generally the feel Ferelden was supposed to have, and would be interesting to develop. Hell, i wish we could have interacted with more Avvars and Chasind, and visited their encampments and such. We had only that one dude in the Calling that was Avvar, and very little interaction or knowledge of the Chasind beyond Morrigans comments. They seem to be numerous enough, and if the Wardens can manage to form treaties with Dalish elves, i don't see why they didn't court the barbarians as well.

I suppose it came down to money and time constraints since Dragon Age: Origins was so vast and introduced so very much.  I mean according to the Dragon Age wiki one of the origins was that of an Avvar barbarian so it's saddening that that wasn't included. Fingers crossed for a Dragon Age 3 with a return of origin stories and some for the Avvars and Chasinds

It's funny though, in Dragon Age you got to go to the Korcari Wilds but never got to meet any actual Chasinds, just Flemeth and Morrigan. Yeah, and it's very odd indeed that the Warden never had to recruit them since they'd have complemented the allied forces quite massively.

[BigEvil]

There were several Chasinds in Lothering during Origins. Three standing near the fields with one of them in an argument with a farmer which is broken up by a Templar, and a fourth outside the chantry who is shouting and causing a scene.

[Arthur Cousland]

It would be nice to see these two groups "revived" in the future. You learn about them in Origins, but don't actually get to know anyone from these backgrounds.

You do run into a pair of Chasind in Lothering and there's the pair of Avvar brothers in the Wending Wood. An Avvar companion would have certainly made for an interesting companion.

[aries1001]

As for inspiration for Dalish Elves in DA universe, the writers, I think, have said that the Dalish were inspired by stories of the Roma people (or travellers), the story of people in RL history forced to live in alienages - being treated like nonhumans.

As for Merrill's Welsh accent; I think there's a codex entry somewhere that states that Merill has left her own clan to find another clan? Or maybe this happend in-game e.g. during the course of the the game, I mean.

[Addai]

The devs said that the Dalish would be voiced by Irish or Welsh actors. They had to broaden it due to actor availability.

I always was reminded of the Roma, mainly the aravels, but the mythology has parallels to Celtic and Norse, and the city elf theme reminds me of medieval Judaism.

[Addai]

The Xand wrote...

Absolutely all of the Dalish bar Merril had distinctive Irish accents unfortunately. I'd really much rather they'd all been Welsh like Merril since it's a lovelier accent, but there you go. Maybe they plan on introducing one of the other races at some point and utilising Welsh accents for them? The Avvars in particular I can see using either Welsh or Scottish accents since they were meant to have quite a Celtic feel to them, but I can't see any DLC for DA2 including them any time soon lol.

Cetlic/ Germanic.  The historical Avars were made up of steppe peoples from the Caucasus, the Alemanni (~ Alamarri) were a loose Germanic confederation.  The Landsmeet sounds a lot like the Anglo-Saxon folkmoot.

[The Xand]

Addai67 wrote...

The Xand wrote...

Absolutely all of the Dalish bar Merril had distinctive Irish accents unfortunately. I'd really much rather they'd all been Welsh like Merril since it's a lovelier accent, but there you go. Maybe they plan on introducing one of the other races at some point and utilising Welsh accents for them? The Avvars in particular I can see using either Welsh or Scottish accents since they were meant to have quite a Celtic feel to them, but I can't see any DLC for DA2 including them any time soon lol.

Cetlic/ Germanic.  The historical Avars were made up of steppe peoples from the Caucasus, the Alemanni (~ Alamarri) were a loose Germanic confederation.  The Landsmeet sounds a lot like the Anglo-Saxon folkmoot.

I think the Alamarri/Alemanni connection is a little too loose to say that that's what they were based on just because the names sound a little alike and because they were a tribe that migrated. The Avvars/Avars connection is even more tenuous given how obscure a tribe they were, not to mention that the historical Avars weren't even a Germanic people. I agree about the Fereldens being based on Anglo-Saxon England though. No, while the Fereldens are obviously based on the English, it's reasonable to assume that the Avvars and Chasind will have a much more Celtic feel to them being much more tribal in nature, the history of the Avvars seems to reflect the Scottish too, ie hardy highland folk resisting more powerful neighbours. Not to mention the concept art is decidedly Celtic looking.

Modifié par The Xand, 13 septembre 2011 - 08:40 .

[Wulfram]

My theory is that Merrill's accent is from the clan she was born with.

[mesmerizedish]

No! They're based on Jews! They can only be ONE oppressed minority, AND I'M NOT SHARING.

[primero holodon]

I've always viewed the dalish as a celtic take on native americans

[MrNose]

...And yet not a single elf has ever tried to sell me flowers.

[Addai]

The Xand wrote...

I think the Alamarri/Alemanni connection is a little too loose to say that that's what they were based on just because the names sound a little alike and because they were a tribe that migrated. The Avvars/Avars connection is even more tenuous given how obscure a tribe they were, not to mention that the historical Avars weren't even a Germanic people. I agree about the Fereldens being based on Anglo-Saxon England though. No, while the Fereldens are obviously based on the English, it's reasonable to assume that the Avvars and Chasind will have a much more Celtic feel to them being much more tribal in nature, the history of the Avvars seems to reflect the Scottish too, ie hardy highland folk resisting more powerful neighbours. Not to mention the concept art is decidedly Celtic looking.

It's possible they just copped the names, similar to how Nevarra has nothing to do with Navarre.  As for the concept art, I take it you mean this shot?  Those look like Germanic long houses and totems to me, but w/e.



The Avars were not obscure.  They were the major power for several centuries in Eastern Europe.  The Croats and Serbs came out of their empire.

I just think it's chancy to draw a one to one comparison.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The highland Scottish were heavily influenced by the repeat viking raids and settlements, who were a Germanic people. So there is some Germanic influence in those populations, including in the accent and dialect.

[RagingCyclone]

primero holodon wrote...

I've always viewed the dalish as a celtic take on native americans

Same here. The Trail of Sorrows is very reminscent of the Cherokee Trail of Tears.

[aries1001]

I think the Dalish tragic fate is a mix of several people's tragic fate in RL including the native americans, the hebrews, the roma people and all the people who have been outcast of their societies during the course of history. I also think that there's a good deal of celtic lore in Dalish culture e.g. the tattoos.

[The Xand]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

The highland Scottish were heavily influenced by the repeat viking raids and settlements, who were a Germanic people. So there is some Germanic influence in those populations, including in the accent and dialect.

You're quite wrong. The Vikings had next to no impact on mainland Scottish culture, which is utterly Celtic since the mainland Scots are a mix of Celtic peoples; Britons, Gaels and Picts. There's no hint of Viking in the accent or dialect whatsoever.

However, you're not entirely wrong since the Vikings did settle some of the very remote islands like Shetland and Orkney and to this day they view themselves as more Viking than Scottish and are fairly distinctive from mainland Scots and while they do speak Scots they have a few Scandinavian words in there too. They are who you must have been thinking of.

primero holodon wrote...

I've always viewed the dalish as a celtic take on native americans

They are a little reminiscent of native Americans actually, the elves in general and their harking back to an earlier mighty civilisation with great cities before being conquered, their cities destroyed before being made second class citizens reminds me of the Aztecs. I would have said that the Dalish were based on Travellers, with a strong Celtic and native American flavour (the Indian teepees seem comparable with Dalish aravels come to think of it).

aries1001 wrote...

I think the Dalish tragic fate is a mix
of several people's tragic fate in RL including the native americans,
the hebrews, the roma people and all the people who have been outcast of
their societies during the course of history. I also think that there's
a good deal of celtic lore in Dalish culture e.g. the tattoos.

The city elves do put one in mind of Hebrews because of their being forced to live in ghettos unfortunately.

Addai67 wrote... As for the concept art, I take it you mean this
shot?  Those look like Germanic long houses and totems to me, but w/e.

The longhouse was a ubiquitous design and not synonymous with Germanic tribes. The Celts built them too.

Modifié par The Xand, 15 septembre 2011 - 06:42 .

[CaisLaochach]

Unless they start offering to tarmac drives I don;t think there's much in common.