17 réponses à ce sujet

[Shymsal]

 Hello all.

Quick question for the gurus out there:

Primeval rune into low blade or Bard's honor?
I do groove the improves with lvl up on Bard's but DW nature dmg LB/Beraht's appeals to me as well...
Any tips?

Thanks for any info!

[DrFumb1ezX]

Probably the level-up ones from the DLC item packs. It continues to scale so there's no need to replace. But I'm mainly a warrior guy, so I always put it in Varric's crossbow.  The damage he does.... Magnificent.

[Shymsal]

soccerchick,

Yes, was thinking of the +lvl scaling.
I tested the dual nature setup & it's pretty brutal... will have to decide in the near future.
Thanks for responding.

Heh, love Varric... will have to do a playthrough where Bianca gets the Primeval love heh! '

[Relix28]

The Low Blade & Beraht's Revenge combo is pretty awesome.
I would recommend putting the Primeval Rune onto Beraht's Revenge (the attack speed bonus will increase as the weapon lvl-ups with you), and Rune of Devastation + Rune of Striking onto The Low Blade. That's pretty much the most optimal way to go with the nature set.

If you have the new item pack, you can also opt for the spirit set.
Primeval Rune + Rune of Devastation on Bard's Honor, and Rune of Striking on Shadow's Claw. Also very powerful, and very useful for the end-game boses.

[Shymsal]

Relix28,

Thank you VERY much for the informative post!
Since I will utilize ROUC I'm thinking of dual nature as you stated above... that way I will get the most benefit out of the robes as well...

I can also make a decent spirit set in case of need.
Way cool!

[thendcomes]

Since you have the new Rogue Pack, the Robes are not worth it. From what I calculated it was only like a 5% increase over the Arms of Mac tir, and that was assuming you bought all possible prebuffing gear to reduce the amount of magic you needed to spend to use RoUC. So you could use Arms of Mac Tir for free and it works with both Nature and Spirit setups, or plunk down 140g for RoUC + another 60g on prebuffing gear, for something that is 5% better on only nature setups.

[Shymsal]

thendcomes,

Wow, thanks a TON for all of that invaluable info!
Seems like the Arms will be fantastic all around.

*You guys are GREAT*

[thendcomes]

Lol thanks, glad to help!

[Relix28]

Np man. Glad we could help.

[Mocker22]

I think I would probably go with primeval in the spirirt set strickly based on spirirt weak vs nature weak in act 3(which is when this decision matters obviously). The whole end sequence of the game is spirirt weaks retty much.

[Cutlass Jack]

soccerchick wrote...

Probably the level-up ones from the DLC item packs. It continues to scale so there's no need to replace. But I'm mainly a warrior guy, so I always put it in Varric's crossbow.  The damage he does.... Magnificent.

Yeah its far too good in Varric's hands to ever consider keeping for myself. Turns Bianca into a beast...a beast which scales better than any player item.

[Relix28]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

Probably the level-up ones from the DLC item packs. It continues to scale so there's no need to replace. But I'm mainly a warrior guy, so I always put it in Varric's crossbow.  The damage he does.... Magnificent.

Yeah its far too good in Varric's hands to ever consider keeping for myself. Turns Bianca into a beast...a beast which scales better than any player item.

Uuuum.....Varric's crossbow scales just like any other shortbow/longbow with the "improves with lvl.-up" property. The crossbow itself is actually a plain bow that is scaled to Varric's lvl (actually it's about as plain as it gets, save the rune slot). What makes Varric such a DPS beast is not his weapon, but rather his talents from his personal tree, namely Bianca's Song (+upgrade) and Well Oiled.

[Cutlass Jack]

Relix28 wrote...

Uuuum.....Varric's crossbow scales just like any other shortbow/longbow with the "improves with lvl.-up" property. The crossbow itself is actually a plain bow that is scaled to Varric's lvl (actually it's about as plain as it gets, save the rune slot). What makes Varric such a DPS beast is not his weapon, but rather his talents from his personal tree, namely Bianca's Song (+upgrade) and Well Oiled.

The part you're missing is that it dramatically ups his number of weapon rune slots. Bianca's scaling for damage runes far outstrips nearly anything a player weapon does. Fill all those slots with elemental runes (I love giving him one of each element) and his DPS goes off the charts. Add in his talents on top of that and he's a monster.

[happy_daiz]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

The part you're missing is that it dramatically ups his number of weapon rune slots. Bianca's scaling for damage runes far outstrips nearly anything a player weapon does. Fill all those slots with elemental runes (I love giving him one of each element) and his DPS goes off the charts. Add in his talents on top of that and he's a monster.

Varric is a monster to begin with (ooh, that chest hair) ... a paragon of manliness.  

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 07 octobre 2011 - 06:37 .

[Relix28]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Uuuum.....Varric's crossbow scales just like any other shortbow/longbow with the "improves with lvl.-up" property. The crossbow itself is actually a plain bow that is scaled to Varric's lvl (actually it's about as plain as it gets, save the rune slot). What makes Varric such a DPS beast is not his weapon, but rather his talents from his personal tree, namely Bianca's Song (+upgrade) and Well Oiled.

The part you're missing is that it dramatically ups his number of weapon rune slots. Bianca's scaling for damage runes far outstrips nearly anything a player weapon does. Fill all those slots with elemental runes (I love giving him one of each element) and his DPS goes off the charts. Add in his talents on top of that and he's a monster.

So much fail in this post.


-That is not scaling. I don't think you understand what scaling means exactly.

-If you let Varric keep the idol shard (to get 3 extra rune slots for Bianca), you then miss out on the Primeval rune. It's a better idea to get the Primeval rune and slap that on Bianca, if you want to boost Varric's DPS.

-Elemental runes for weapons are garbage. The extra damage they do is added in the end, meaning it is unaffected by damage multipliers. You will get more DPS from a single Devastation rune than from 4 elemental runes, since that actually multiplies all the damage you do for 10%.

-Bianca gets the same amount of extra damage from an elemental rune than any other bow of the same lvl. For instance, @lvl.24 Bianca will get +27 fire/cold/elec./nature damage from an elemetal rune, and so will Hood's Message to the King and Longbow of the Avvars (dlc bows), since they scale exactly the same as Bianca (as far as base damage and strenght of rune effects goes).


I hope this clears it up for you.

Modifié par Relix28, 08 octobre 2011 - 12:49 .

[Cutlass Jack]

It does! I never would have guessed that a single rune that gives a 10% bonus would be better than four runes that provide +20% damage each. Consider me educated.

But I can't recall any auto-leveling weapon in game having four rune slots other than Bianca. Hard to beat regardless of what you put in it.

[mr_afk]

There are several problems here;
- That three extra rune slots for Bianca are better than the primeval rune
- That elemental runes are better than runes of devastation
- That Varric is better than Hawke
- That Bianca is better than Hawke's weapons



If i remember right, elemental runes add +20% of weapon base damage as elemental damage.
In the case for bows this may seem like a reasonable amount (~30 at higher levels) but you have to realise that this damage is independent of the base damage from dexterity and ability multipliers.

For hawke (can't remember Varric off the top my head), standard dps archer builds will be dealing up to 500 to 1000 damage with each shot.
This means that the extra 30 or so elemental damage which is unmodified by critical damage% becomes insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Even four of them would only be adding a small proportion to dps.

In terms of dps, the Primeval Lyrium Rune adds quite a lot of extra attack speed (~30% in bows?) which immediately equals an +30% increase in dps, (proportionally less when you have all the sustains and haste running). But in other words, the primeval lyrium rune is the most powerful weapon rune fullstop - so it's better to get that than extra rune slots.

The next best rune is the rune of devastation. It adds 10% total damage which means it factors in critical damage, base damage from the base attribute, and ability modifiers. While autoattacks at ~500 damage will only get an extra ~50 damage, spike damage (e.g. CCCs) will be greatly increased. When Varric deals 4000 damage or so to an enemy via an archer's lance the rune of devastation will give +400 damage; a lot more than any elemental rune.


Hawke gets more +attributes (tomes/fade/equipment) than any other companion. Hawke's specs are also superior to the companion specs. It is simply untrue to think that hawke isn't the most powerful character in the game.
This means that if you are going to increase the attack speed of anybody, it should be hawke- as that would result in the largest increase in dps.

Additionally, Hawke gets access to the better weapons. Without going into details, elemental damage plays a huge impact as it ignores armour, can be greatly buffed, and can hit elemental weaknesses. This means that Bianca isn't actually very good. When compared to the other elemental levelling weapons in the game (especially with their extra modifiers) Bianca is pretty plain.


So basically. Relix is right. Listen to him.

Modifié par mr_afk, 08 octobre 2011 - 05:13 .

[Relix28]

Thnx for elaborating mr_afk.

Cutlass Jack wrote...

It does! I never would have guessed that a single rune that gives a 10% bonus would be better than four runes that provide +20% damage each. Consider me educated.

But I can't recall any auto-leveling weapon in game having four rune slots other than Bianca. Hard to beat regardless of what you put in it.

What good does 4 rune slots do you, if there is only one good weapon rune in the game (rune of devastation)? Elemental runes are crap, mr_afk explained in greater detail then I have as to why they are insignificant. Runes of striking are good until you can get rune of devastation, and become redundant once his crit chance reaches 100% (via dex, sustains and accessories).
Bottom line, 3 extra rune slots are a complete waste, especially considering that you basically have to choose them over the Primeval rune. 

If you want to optimize your dps, the Primeval rune is a no brainer. Even, if you put it in Varric's crossbow, it is still better then his 3 extra rune slots. Although I would not recommend that, since Hawke can get a much better use out of it (read: higher dps increase).