191 réponses à ce sujet

[Xeranx]

Why is there argumentation stating that there will be no canon for Shepard if the movie is being based on the events of Mass Effect around Shepard who'll be prominently featured? The intent of this movie is to be released to the masses.

Do you think you or anyone else will be able to silence the masses who'll say Shepard's gender is canon as defined in the movie? Your proof would be what Bioware said yesterday (as it'll be past-tense) compared to today as the movie will depict it.

[Aeowyn]

OP you do realize that they canonized Revan a long time ago. Canon Revan was always a lightside male. Just as canon Exile is female.
As for the rest of your post, no, I don't think they should make a canon Shepard or a canon romance, because people RP their Shepard's differently, and canonizing Shepard would mean few people would be happy.
I remember that a lot of people were angry when they canonized Revan and Exile, and I am very glad that BioWare decided not to make a canon for Shepard.

[GunMoth]

Xeranx wrote...

Then Shepard can be a tomboy who likes to look "nice" from time to time.

Generally I hate the idea of having a woman be a man. In my mind there's a difference between having traits and embodying what is socially agreed upon (whether consciously or not) to be masculine. It's the latter that bothers me. It's like thinking of a man being a woman. I don't mean being feminine, but actually being a woman (and not with hormones and the like). Hopefully that makes sense.

Having hormones doesn't make you more masculine or feminine aside from crying at inappropriate times or having mild mood swings - but even that differs from female to female. Tendencies (gender identity traits) that you pick up tend to be associated with experience or the field of work you're in. Or your physical capabilities. In other cases it has a lot to do with the way you perceive the world around you (More right brained or left brained.) 

If you're in a male dominated work force that requires physical labor or ability to handle pain - women will sometimes push themselves harder than males to achieve respect. This may come off as "butch" - that doesn't mean this girl is not prone to hormonal mood swings. (Starbuck from the new Battlestar Galactica illustrated this very well.)

Sometimes society will pressure someone OUT of their gender. (A famous transexual kick boxer from Thailand became a woman because he was beaten up a lot as a child for associating with women more. He hated being a man because of this and abandoned his own identity) 

Sexual identity more of a "gradiant" than "black and white". Saying one pertains to the other isn't entirely untrue - but limiting it hurts a LOT of people who don't fit in the majority. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:22 .

[mango smoothie]

I have no problem with a canon for a movie.My problem is that the movie might trickle down to the games and create a canon Shepard for games.

[GunMoth]

mango smoothie wrote...

I have no problem with a canon for a movie.My problem is that the movie might trickle down to the games and create a canon Shepard for games.

ME3 is the end of Shepard's story. ME3 has already been written (Hopefully, if not that would be pretty scary for Bioware coming so close to March). Don't worry.

[Saberchic]

Hyperion II wrote...

Bioware claimes that "there is no Canon for Mass effect."

Creating a canon for mass effect will angry sooooo many fans that it will be considerd suicidal for future sales.
that aside, your arguments are...well, lame.

There are as many maleShep fans as femShep fans if not more.
some of them will feel "cheated" if the canon will be female.
there is depth to the story regardless which gender you play.
every charecter evolves and every romance option fits shepard:
Miranda shows feelings.
Jack finds some peace in her f**ked-up life.
Tali loves shepard. period.
Garrus the sidekick becomes more then just a sidecick.
Kaidan and Ashely have little less depth but still great.
and you gave the detile for Liara.

Your over-all argument is that: "Make Shepard Female with Liara as romance because that's what I want and that's what I played."

Exactly! I didn't really want to get into the whole "who should be Shep's ideal LI" debate. (God knows where that would take this thread. )

[Aeowyn]

Revan was canonized back in 2005-2006 if I remember correctly.

[Haventh]

Xeranx wrote...

Why is there argumentation stating that there will be no canon for Shepard if the movie is being based on the events of Mass Effect around Shepard who'll be prominently featured? The intent of this movie is to be released to the masses.

Do you think you or anyone else will be able to silence the masses who'll say Shepard's gender is canon as defined in the movie? Your proof would be what Bioware said yesterday (as it'll be past-tense) compared to today as the movie will depict it.

The movie does not count in thie equation.

[Xeranx]

GunMoth wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Then Shepard can be a tomboy who likes to look "nice" from time to time.

Generally I hate the idea of having a woman be a man. In my mind there's a difference between having traits and embodying what is socially agreed upon (whether consciously or not) to be masculine. It's the latter that bothers me. It's like thinking of a man being a woman. I don't mean being feminine, but actually being a woman (and not with hormones and the like). Hopefully that makes sense.

Having hormones doesn't make you more masculine or feminine aside from crying at inappropriate times or having mild mood swings - but even that differs from female to female. Tendencies (gender identity traits) that you pick up tend to be associated with experience or the field of work you're in. Or your physical capabilities. In other cases it has a lot to do with the way you perceive the world around you (More right brained or left brained.) 

If you're in a male dominated work force that requires physical labor or ability to handle pain - women will sometimes push themselves harder than males to achieve respect. This may come off as "butch" - that doesn't mean this girl is not prone to hormonal mood swings. (Starbuck from the new Battlestar Galactica illustrated this very well.)

Sometimes society will pressure someone OUT of their gender. (A famous transexual kick boxer from Thailand became a woman because he was beaten up a lot as a child for associating with women more. He hated being a man because of this and abandoned his own identity) 

Sexual identity more of a "gradiant" than "black and white". Saying one pertains to the other isn't entirely untrue - but limiting it hurts a LOT of people who don't fit in the majority. 

You're right.  I guess I just wanted context for what I'm trying to drive at and that is the issue of denying self or ascribing something to oneself that has been defined and making that be the end all, be all of what one should be in a situation.

I find it kind of troubling the many people who say female Shepard should be more masculine rather female Shepard just "be".  True, being a member of the armed forces can change someone, but it doesn't change everyone and there's nothing that says a woman should become more "masculine" as a result.  When I look at Ashley I see a person who's able to give as good as she gets.  The rest is aesthetically pleasing (and very much appreciated) window dressing.  

EDIT: Of course it all depends on how one defines themselves.

Modifié par Xeranx, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:35 .

[Xeranx]

Haventh wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Why is there argumentation stating that there will be no canon for Shepard if the movie is being based on the events of Mass Effect around Shepard who'll be prominently featured? The intent of this movie is to be released to the masses.

Do you think you or anyone else will be able to silence the masses who'll say Shepard's gender is canon as defined in the movie? Your proof would be what Bioware said yesterday (as it'll be past-tense) compared to today as the movie will depict it.

The movie does not count in thie equation.

That's what we'd like to think.  If it was written and produced by a different company with no ties to Bioware we'd probably have a leg to stand on.  But there will be producers or executive producers from Bioware guiding everything until the movie is completed.  It's their project, and what they do with it is entirely up to them.  Whatever they do with the work is up to them and them alone.  Beyond that we only have hope.  What is that getting us so far?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Only my Shepard is canon. Period. (femShep/Liara).

The only downside of this is that if the next installment in the Mass Effect series involves Shepard's child, it limits the main character to female, which will limit marketing of the game. Whereas femShep/Kaiden, or Sheploo/Ashley gives the player a gender option.

If they do the Shepard's child route, then without any set canon, but just Shepard, one could do the DA:O type and allow play as different mixed races, human, or Asari. I just can't see a Shepard/Krogan or Shepard/Vorcha mix, though. Sorry guys. You'd have different beginnings, but the paths would converge.

[el master pr]

 I'm gonna quote myself from another thread:

el master pr wrote...
A Mass Effect film would be the same as watching another person playing the game. As for canon, there is no canon Shepard. With all due respect, the people that say making a movie is a mistake because it would make the events on it canon in the ME Universe are either ignorant or dumb. When have Nolan's Batman films had an impact in Batman's comic book stories? Yeah, I thought so too. If you want more examples, just look at every comic book movie ever made. A ME film would create another alternate universe, in which an alternate Shepard make alternate choices. If you go with a mindset of the film being a "What if...", you should be able to enjoy it as much as the game. If you are just mad because in the film it will be MaleShep and you play FemShep, for example, then the best way to show your disrespect for the movie is to not go see it. I, for one, want to see this alternate Shepard. Just a thought.

[Kreidian]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

A. The galaxy was saved five hundred years ago by an Alliance soldier.

B. The galaxy was saved five hundred years ago by a redheaded lesbian with an alien girlfriend.

Yep. B sounds more fun. A is so... uninteresting.

haha!

I love how you managed to condense my entire post into such a simple concept.

Kudos!

[matt-bassist]

will this shep-canon be capable of disabling a Reaper?

[Saibh]

This is entirely reliant on how much Shepard shows up in the ME universe.

It's not hard to simply allude to 'Shepard' only. Especially if they go the normal BioWare route and give him or her a title ('Hero of Ferelden', 'Champion of Kirkwall', 'Spirit Monk') of some sort--although that might be out of place in a sci-fi future.

After that, in any video game, they simply need to say "Shepard" for the most part to reference him or her. They don't need to reference a romance at all. If they must refer to gender, why not just allow an import? They'd need to only change a few lines that reference gender. However more complicated they get with import is their choice.

Also, I don't think Shepard will be having children. S/he can't have kids with Garrus, Thane, or Tali. Miranda can't have children. Jack might not want kids (or be able to have them due to experiments). I suspect Shepard might not be able to mindmeld because of the cybernetic implants--or even be able to have children with humans.

Modifié par Saibh, 14 septembre 2011 - 09:24 .

[GunMoth]

Xeranx wrote...

GunMoth wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Then Shepard can be a tomboy who likes to look "nice" from time to time.

Generally I hate the idea of having a woman be a man. In my mind there's a difference between having traits and embodying what is socially agreed upon (whether consciously or not) to be masculine. It's the latter that bothers me. It's like thinking of a man being a woman. I don't mean being feminine, but actually being a woman (and not with hormones and the like). Hopefully that makes sense.

Having hormones doesn't make you more masculine or feminine aside from crying at inappropriate times or having mild mood swings - but even that differs from female to female. Tendencies (gender identity traits) that you pick up tend to be associated with experience or the field of work you're in. Or your physical capabilities. In other cases it has a lot to do with the way you perceive the world around you (More right brained or left brained.) 

If you're in a male dominated work force that requires physical labor or ability to handle pain - women will sometimes push themselves harder than males to achieve respect. This may come off as "butch" - that doesn't mean this girl is not prone to hormonal mood swings. (Starbuck from the new Battlestar Galactica illustrated this very well.)

Sometimes society will pressure someone OUT of their gender. (A famous transexual kick boxer from Thailand became a woman because he was beaten up a lot as a child for associating with women more. He hated being a man because of this and abandoned his own identity) 

Sexual identity more of a "gradiant" than "black and white". Saying one pertains to the other isn't entirely untrue - but limiting it hurts a LOT of people who don't fit in the majority. 

You're right.  I guess I just wanted context for what I'm trying to drive at and that is the issue of denying self or ascribing something to oneself that has been defined and making that be the end all, be all of what one should be in a situation.

I find it kind of troubling the many people who say female Shepard should be more masculine rather female Shepard just "be".  True, being a member of the armed forces can change someone, but it doesn't change everyone and there's nothing that says a woman should become more "masculine" as a result.  When I look at Ashley I see a person who's able to give as good as she gets.  The rest is aesthetically pleasing (and very much appreciated) window dressing.  

EDIT: Of course it all depends on how one defines themselves.

I completely understand your point. And I feel that way as well (denying the self) but I'm not going to lie: Gender identity is a huge issue for me personally. I'm not transgender - but I have thought about it and if I were able to fit the part physically, I probably would change. Unfortunately its only getting worse as I become an adult with growing expectations from outside parties. Not only that, but the whole "I'm a gamer girl!" movement makes me so embarrased by my gender that I seldom discuss it (aside from situations like this). 

Its funny too because I voted for blonde shepard, and still voted for her. It opened my eyes to how upset a community can get about cosmetics (making sweeping generalizations about someone with a specific hair style. Calling them  a bimbo.) etc.

[daigakuinsei]

 Canonizing?  Are we making Shepard a saint of the Catholic Church?

[Aggie Punbot]

I am firmly against "canonizing" Shepard in any way, whether it be as a male or a female. I am fine with there being a default Shepard, but making your own personal preferred Shepard as canon? Not appealing at all because you are going to end up pissing a LOT of people off regardless of what you choose.

Just say NO to "Canonization."

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 14 septembre 2011 - 09:48 .

[green_lemur]

I think shepard would be male if canonized. See how this works? there are so many opions that canonizing shepard will make more people mad than happy. How I see canon shep is: male, war hero, colonist, tali romance, and killing wrex and letting ash die.