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What will kill Dragon Age 3 for PC gamers.


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#26
Zanallen

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csfteeeer wrote...

He is a PC centric Gamer, but he owes Consoles as Well.
What the Guy was Complaining is that Developers such as Capcom keep releasing Half Assed Versions of their Games.
Why?
Because CONSOLE Gamers (those games are exclusive to consoles) Keep Buying them, and the thing is, unlike the PC community, they will keep buying it.
PC gamers, would never accept this, and they stop buying them.
Example: You wanna know how many Copies has COD: Black Ops sold on Consoles? o 360, it sold FIFTEEN MILLION Copies, on PS3, it sold TWELVE MILLION copies.
and you wanna know how many copies has it sold on PC? IT HAS NOT EVEN REACHED A MILLION.


Oh good. I certainly wouldn't want to be associated with that individual. He makes PC gamers look bad. It is just another DLC rant that has nothing to do with consoles versus PCs.

#27
csfteeeer

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Zanallen wrote...

Oh good. I certainly wouldn't want to be associated with that individual. He makes PC gamers look bad. It is just another DLC rant that has nothing to do with consoles versus PCs.


I Never Said it was about Consoles Versus PCs.

You Simply took my comment(that PC gamers and Consoles Gamers are not the same), put it in a different Context, and i used this video to say what it is that i really meant, he mentions PC gamers near the end of the video.

#28
Tommyspa

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So, the PC gamers are like Dalish elves in society and self-esteem? Accurate or not? (Someone should make this DA2 related...somehow...)

#29
csfteeeer

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Tommyspa wrote...

So, the PC gamers are like Dalish elves in society and self-esteem? Accurate or not? (Someone should make this DA2 related...somehow...)


Err..... Yes.

and you make a point, let's not derail this anymore.

#30
Zanallen

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csfteeeer wrote...

I Never Said it was about Consoles Versus PCs.

You Simply took my comment(that PC gamers and Consoles Gamers are not the same), put it in a different Context, and i used this video to say what it is that i really meant, he mentions PC gamers near the end of the video.


You said that PC gamers won't take it and shouldn't be messed with. By specifying PC gamers, you are implying that console gamers will take it. Which is what that video reinforces for the first few minutes. The video also does it in an incredibly hostile and offensive manner. And that doesn't change the fact that it is a DLC rant, something that pretty much effects PC and consoles equally. PC gamers do have mods and such, but then they demand a toolset, despite the fact that they things that they want to be made don't require a toolset in the first place.

#31
Mark of the Dragon

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I get the disconnect thing. I mean dont ge tme wrong I liked DA2. Honestly though I just couldn't connect with Hawke like I could my Warden. That connection is what makes the game special and without it the game is at a huge disadvantage. No connectivity= no feeling= no care. It has to feel like it's US (the player) making the descisons thats when we care and really dive into the world.

#32
Corto81

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I don't know if it's the issue of BW trying to attract console players or just any players outside of the RPG-core.

Problem is, they ended up making a game which was a bad RPG (failed in sales and got awful reviews, all things considered) and didn't appeal to the non-RPG fans anyway.

DA:O was epic in scope, with depth and attention to detail.
Games like Origins, BG, Witcher 2 are proper RPGs that will keep the genre alive and gather more and more people because they are quality RPGs.

Games like DA2, funnily enough, while deliberately trying to appeal to the non-RPG fans, fail in satisfying the RPG crowd AND they don't appeal to people because they're ultimately just bad games.

#33
Reno_Tarshil

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Sorry TC, I have to disagree with you here.



                  (1)  It created a disconnect with the main character - this is in part due to the fact that we start out      
                         mid-life with the character and part due to the fact that the character creation was lacking heavily
                         from the last game (I could actually see a massive space between my character's beard and where
                         it was supposed to be attached to his face!).

                        I was just as connected to Hawke as to my Warden, there was realism there as well. You yourself said you forced yourself through the game, so already you had your mind set that you weren't going to like the game and was only doing it for a sense of completion. However if you did another run, cleared your head and sat and listen to everything being said or read stuff you pick up, you might feel connected as well. The Character creator added more options available to use, However I will agree with you on the beard thing (They should let you edit your cheekbone face with a beard, DA:O is also guilty of this.)

                  (2) The battle system was Xbox-oriented. Planning engagements was now gone because of the new
                        element involving waves of enemies appearing, and because of the fast-paced nature of the battles,
                         playing with anything other than a console made the fighting irritating.

                       Waves appearing is just another enemy spawn mechanic, I honestly don't see the problem with it. You get more experience for it anyways. As for fighting tactically as a "PC Gamer" I still pause my game and spin my camera around to see who to target next to keep up with momentum. Playing as a Mage had me pausing my game more than ever. I had to pause repeatedly pick a spell find a target amidst the hordes of enemies. So no, I didn't find it irritating at all.

Again it's your opinion and I'm not saying it's wrong but i'm not agreeing with it, I do however think it's unfair to lump everyone together by saying the community thinks DA2 is a bad game when the community is divided in half pretty much.

#34
Cutlasskiwi

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You should have worded your post differently because it sounds like you're trying to speak for the whole PC community.

I'm a PC gamer and and I enjoyed DA2 more than DAO. But I see where you're coming from, I had the same disconnect in DAO where I could never roleplay the Warden with any kind of satisfaction. Add to that a story that, I didn't think, was very exciting or particularly fun. For all DA2's faults I still see it as a huge improvement. Everything it, in my opinion, did right just clicked with me: voiced PC, friendship/rivalry system, combat, followers, followers quests, crafting system, personal focus etc..

There are no real big decisions or outcomes in DA2 but I found myself not missing them all that much because the game focused on Hawke and let me roleplay how s/he felt and reacted to everything happening around him/her.

As for the combat, I liked it. The shuffle is gone! Even with all the waves I still enjoyed it throughout the game. DA2 is aslo the first game where I really enjoyed being a mage and the combat is a big part of that.

#35
Dariuszp

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Reno_Tarshil wrote...

Sorry TC, I have to disagree with you here.



                  (1)  It created a disconnect with the main character - this is in part due to the fact that we start out      
                         mid-life with the character and part due to the fact that the character creation was lacking heavily
                         from the last game (I could actually see a massive space between my character's beard and where
                         it was supposed to be attached to his face!).

                        I was just as connected to Hawke as to my Warden, there was realism there as well. You yourself said you forced yourself through the game, so already you had your mind set that you weren't going to like the game and was only doing it for a sense of completion. However if you did another run, cleared your head and sat and listen to everything being said or read stuff you pick up, you might feel connected as well. The Character creator added more options available to use, However I will agree with you on the beard thing (They should let you edit your cheekbone face with a beard, DA:O is also guilty of this.)

                  (2) The battle system was Xbox-oriented. Planning engagements was now gone because of the new
                        element involving waves of enemies appearing, and because of the fast-paced nature of the battles,
                         playing with anything other than a console made the fighting irritating.

                       Waves appearing is just another enemy spawn mechanic, I honestly don't see the problem with it. You get more experience for it anyways. As for fighting tactically as a "PC Gamer" I still pause my game and spin my camera around to see who to target next to keep up with momentum. Playing as a Mage had me pausing my game more than ever. I had to pause repeatedly pick a spell find a target amidst the hordes of enemies. So no, I didn't find it irritating at all.

Again it's your opinion and I'm not saying it's wrong but i'm not agreeing with it, I do however think it's unfair to lump everyone together by saying the community thinks DA2 is a bad game when the community is divided in half pretty much.


Connected to Hawk ? You have recipe on that ? Because I want to feel it. I was 100% disconnected. Why ?
~ hawk had limited responses
~ he often said something clearly different that I had in mind selecting answer
~ ha had voice :| not my own
~ he never was important. Whatever he did, didn't matter at the end.
~ he was hollow

You see no problem with waves ?
~ you are fighting, positioning your team when... monsters spawn on your head. Or they come from room that you just clear. Or they spawn from the floor. Whatever you like. No point doing anything elase that keeping your team (on nightmaere) near wall and spamming spells. All fights were boring and the same. Just like locations
~ fights had no sense at all. You just walk around and then BAM!. Bunch of idiots spawn around you from thin air and they attack you. And in one fight I saw more enemies that they show people in Kirkwall. Quantity over quality.
~ yeah, you can pause the game and use 'tactical approach" but why you want to do it ? On nightmare, only time when I paused the game was with BOSS FIGHTS. Yeah, you can pause etc but there is no point because whole game is just easy hack & slash.
~ mage just spamming spells. On nightmare you just track other party member so you wont kill them with fire.
~ no point in pausing to fire a spell. Why ? most of them are just homing missiles and AOE.
~ and DA II have one of the worst combat animations in BW history.

#36
culletron1

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Reno_Tarshil wrote...

Again it's your opinion and I'm not saying it's wrong but i'm not agreeing with it, I do however think it's unfair to lump everyone together by saying the community thinks DA2 is a bad game when the community is divided in half pretty much.


Well Judging by sales numbers it appears the community is half the size of the DA:O playing community and of the half that actually bought it half of those didn't like it....

#37
Killer3000ad

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PC gamer here, already said everything i needed to say about DA2 in various threads months ago and is no longer inclined to repeat the same long laundry list of issues I had with DA2.

DA2 would be an okay game were it not labelled as a sequel to DA:O. Yes I wanted more of DA:O and not Dynasty Age. But as it is, it's got 'Dragon Age' and a '2' in the title and it fails as a sequel. I feel like Bioware forgot what they did in DA:O and decided to throw everything out that made it good. Of course this has alot to do with the fact that Brent Knowles made DA:O what it is and Mike Laidlaw only took over for the console port.

Everything about DA2 was a massive step backwards, from companion outfit customization(or lack of it) to the terrible encounter design revolving around surviving waves after waves of enemies spawning out of thin air or dropping from the ceiling. And then there's the storytelling.... which was just plain poor due to retarded timeskips between acts, poor companion interaction (in DA:O you could talk at length to them in camp, but in DA2 they only appeared to say anything new when you advance in acts), lack of choice etc etc. Like I said, I am not going to repeat the plethora of things that DA2 did poorly compared to DA:O. The only thing DA2 did better was the skill system which was later let down by the poor combat design.

So yes, just another PC gamer here throwing my vote by saying DA:O > DA2. A thousand times. But i do still have hope for DA3 given what info they've given out about it being the best of both DAO and DA2, or so they claim.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 15 septembre 2011 - 12:44 .


#38
Firky

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This PC gamer really just wants the tactical camera back. (I played Origins entirely zoomed out.)

#39
Firky

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sunderlance wrote...
I'm a big fan of CD Projeckt and the Witcher stories, and in no way do I begrudge them for taking what some have argued to be the PC's only good exclusive game and bringing it to consoles. Personally, I'm happy for them to do that. Why shouldn't they be allowed to make more money for their work. The key thing is, that they have not marginalized their original customers to meet the needs of their newer ones.


PS. The only thing I would add is to this. I loved Witcher 2, but I was annoyed with the gamepad optimised gameplay (mostly because I don't play shooters and am terrible at WASD). I also played the original Witcher and it did feel like PC to console between the 2 games.

For me, things like "click to move", tooltips etc, kept the "multiplatform" feel of Dragon Age between games.

#40
Complistic

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No self respecting pc gamer should even be considering picking up DA3 before it gets thoroughly reviewed.

#41
element eater

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Zanallen wrote...
that doesn't change the fact that it is a DLC rant, something that pretty much effects PC and consoles equally. PC gamers do have mods and such, but then they demand a toolset, despite the fact that they things that they want to be made don't require a toolset in the first place.


no its not a dlc rant its more focused on Capcom and there awful methods of making money (re-releasing street fighter4 3 times, selling on disc content, cutting game content deliberately to sell later etc) at the expense of gamers who rather depressingly buy into it which simply serves to make the problem even worse.

at op yeh i agree with alot of what you say i think alot of people do tbh, although i wouldnt say i was an out and out pc gamer i do play bioware games on pc.

Modifié par element eater, 15 septembre 2011 - 02:57 .


#42
Zanallen

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element eater wrote...

no its not a dlc rant its more focused on Capcom and there awful methods of making money (re-releasing street fighter4 3 times, selling on disc content, cutting game content deliberately to sell later etc) at the expense of gamers who rather depressingly buy into it which simply serves to make the problem even worse.

at op yeh i agree with alot of what you say i think alot of people do tbh, although i wouldnt say i was an out and out pc gamer i do play bioware games on pc.


It is a DLC rant.

Cutting content from the game to sell it as DLC = DLC issue.
Selling content on disc as DLC = DLC issue.
As for rereleasing the game...How is that any different than releasing ultimate editions or game of the year editions? It isn't the exact same game, after all. The rereleases include new characters and game modes on top of what the original game offered.

And really, Capcom has been doing this for years. Or don't you remember Street Fighter II, Super Street Fighter II, Super Street Figher II Turbo and all that other crap. There is a reason I no longer buy their games. Hell, Megaman has been the same damn game since the first one. The mechanics have barely changed and most of the robot masters are just alternate element versions of the ones that came before. If gamers refuse to learn and want to keep buying Capcom products then so be it. It doesn't affect me.

#43
csfteeeer

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Complistic wrote...

No self respecting pc gamer should even be considering picking up DA3 before it gets thoroughly reviewed.


By Who?
By the (Obviously Bought) PC Gamer Reviewer that gave a 94?(Which he is still paying for in the PC gamer forums lol)

Nope.
I'll get it from a Friends house or something, and then'll i decide on whether i'll buy it or not.

#44
Guest_PresidentCowboy_*

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All I got out of that OP was "EVERY SINGLE PC GAMER THOUGHT DA2 SUCKED". Which is wrong. Nice try.

Modifié par PresidentCowboy, 15 septembre 2011 - 03:43 .


#45
csfteeeer

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Corto81 wrote...
Games like DA2, funnily enough, while deliberately trying to appeal to the non-RPG fans, fail in satisfying the RPG crowd AND they don't appeal to people because they're ultimately just bad games.


I Agree with this.

DA2 is simply too mechanical and robotic to appeal to Action Gamers, and too simple to appeal to many RPGers.

#46
Mr.House

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Complistic wrote...

No self respecting pc gamer should even be considering picking up DA3 before it gets thoroughly reviewed.

lol.

#47
Seeker Sparrow

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Loading screens.

#48
Zjarcal

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Mr.House wrote...

Complistic wrote...

No self respecting pc gamer should even be considering picking up DA3 before it gets thoroughly reviewed.

lol.


LOL indeed! :lol::lol::lol:

#49
nowherekid85

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sunderlance wrote...

                  (1)  It created a disconnect with the main character - this is in part due to the fact that we start out      
                         mid-life with the character and part due to the fact that the character creation was lacking heavily
                         from the last game (I could actually see a massive space between my character's beard and where
                         it was supposed to be attached to his face!).


I felt more connected to Hawke than the Warden. Hawke is roughly 24 at the start of the game. Hardly classifies as mid-life. The options for character creation improved greatly, although I do agree with you about issues involving large gaps between hair and skin.

                  (2) The battle system was Xbox-oriented. Planning engagements was now gone because of the new
                        element involving waves of enemies appearing, and because of the fast-paced nature of the battles,
                         playing with anything other than a console made the fighting irritating.

I'm loving the fighting! Yes, it is quite fast-paced, but I don't see that as a bad thing. The waves of enemies are a bit ridiculous, but oh well...could be worse. I've played both games on the 360 and both games on the pc.

For a PC gamer, and a loyal supporter of Bioware, I forced myself through this game. When we learn that characters have gotten married during the years we don't see we feel a disconnect. When all our achievements are honoured during the years we don't see we feel a disconnect. Every time we fight to see the outcome, we're told about it in past-tense. Both the past tense and the lack of visible outcome create the disconnect I'm talking about.

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't feel any disconnect over a particular marriage. Why should I? More visible outcomes for Hawke's achievements would have been nice though.

If DA3 is more like DA2 than DAO I will be very happy indeed. I love the first game, I really do, but I thoroughly enjoyed playing DA2 much more than Origins, despite it's flaws.

#50
Maria Caliban

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The presumptuous on display would be astounding if it weren't commonplace.