276 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

As a PC player i preferred Da2 to origins.That being said i'm fully aware the game has certain faults and hope for a nice blending of some of the good things from Origins and the good from DA2 can make DA3 stellar.

[Dragoonlordz]

As a PC player I thought DA2 was silly and over the top plus very flawed both in design and implementation of specific aspects aswell as on the whole compared to Origins. Either way regardless of format whether console or PC, the same things apply to create a desire for me to invest further in the DA franchise of which is the equivalent of tick list of positive and negative attributes and features that is made up of all aspects within my review. If has more ticked in positive than negative then I would be possibly swayed to invest in the next title but if has more negative than positive then obviously it goes the other way.

[element eater]

I apolgise for this rant

Zanallen wrote...
It is a DLC rant
Cutting content from the game to sell it as DLC = DLC issue.
Selling content on disc as DLC = DLC issue.

 yes they are you are right i concede that.
But, his rant isnt about there existance so to speak but that people will accept it so readily

As for rereleasing the game...How is that any different than releasing ultimate editions or game of the year editions? It isn't the exact same game, after all. The rereleases include new characters and game modes on top of what the original game offered.

well theres alot of differance dao had been around for a varly long time befor the UE. The UE was simply a collecttion of everything released previously in one packeage that allows bioware to boost sales for an older product but also allows players new to the game a more affordable alternative then buying an old game and buying dlc individualy.  The UE in NO way undermines previous releases or the game content of anyone who didnt buy it. If anyone wanted the dlc it was available to them and the patches were free to download.

alternatively super street fighter contains a large amount of content that is not available to the previous titles owners. You might argue that features like new characters and modes require a new title but this even extends to minor issues like character balancing which realy is patch material but still isnt available to previous versions. Additionaly despite similarites the online options are completely uncompatible thus meaning anyone with the older game needs to update again in if they desire to continue any significant level of play. Yes the characters are nice but again they could quite easily be made as dlc content as many other games have done such as mk9, soul calibur and so on.  what capcom has done is release a game that renders the previous title completely redundant in almost every respect. The equivilant would be bio releasing a new daoUE that contains exlusive content and fixes only available with that purchase or requiring the repurchase of da2 in order to accesss patches or to play legacy. Capcom Players only have the choice to either repurchase the game or simply loose out . To make matters worse even if you could compare ssf to a UE from bioware Capcom then released another version that either takes the form of a stand alone game or a significant dlc again this basicly offers nothing but minor content a couple of balancing changes and some online options that could very well be introduced through patching and 4 new characters 2 of which are simply new variants on pre existing characters which is very lazy given how many characters exist in sf that people would like to see included in the roster. 

Id just like to point out that just 9 months after release capcom is re releasing marvel vs capcom 3 as an ultimate version, but not so ultimate that it doesnt already have planned dlc releases

And really, Capcom has been doing this for years. Or don't you remember Street Fighter II, Super Street Fighter II, Super Street Figher II Turbo and all that other crap. There is a reason I no longer buy their games. Hell, Megaman has been the same damn game since the first one. The mechanics have barely changed and most of the robot masters are just alternate element versions of the ones that came before. If gamers refuse to learn and want to keep buying Capcom products then so be it. It doesn't affect me.

yes i do remember it and in those cases it was annoying. However, fighting games continualy evolve or need refining as well as this fighters also continualy get re releases as arcade games, which for many years was an essential aspect of the genre. Until recently consoles have been unable to update titles through either dlc or patches and so the only way to effectively bring these updates to players is to re-release titles as seperate games. This allows players to update there games get new characters modes etc that would otherwise be unobtainable.

However currently it is entirely possible to make such content available through systems like psn and live wether in the form of a patch or premium dlc. Much like bioware and many others do with titles currently. Capcom however are simply ignoring this system in favour of re-releases which, at this point seems somewhat antiquated the only real explanation for this would appear to be capcom wanting to make as much money as possible even at the detriment of fans

Modifié par element eater, 15 septembre 2011 - 06:42 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Zanallen wrote...

And none of those points have anything to do with the topic at hand.

They have to do with your response to the topic at hand.

[Uccio]

To OP question, as a PC player if the DA3 is like DA2. That will prevent me from buying the game.

[Morroian]

wright1978 wrote...

As a PC player i preferred Da2 to origins.That being said i'm fully aware the game has certain faults and hope for a nice blending of some of the good things from Origins and the good from DA2 can make DA3 stellar.

This.

[MerinTB]

With the OP.

Though he is probably wasting his time writing about it on this forum.

Ducking back out before the flaming gets too hot.

[AngryFrozenWater]

The OP made valid points.

Changes are this thread will end up in a console versus PC war. That's not interesting.

Like MerinTB, I think it is time to back out.

[Zanallen]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

They have to do with your response to the topic at hand.

Not really, considering my post was a direct response to the post I quoted. The post which claimed that PC gamers are to be feared 'cause they take no guff.

[MorrigansLove]

Origins is near perfection on the PC.

[Zanallen]

element eater wrote...

-Snip-

Actually, the Ultimate Edition of DA:O came out within a year of the initial release of the game. 11 months. Only 2 more months than Super Street Fighter IV. To purchase all of the DLC for DA:O it would cost 57 dollars. That is pretty much the original price of the game. Buying the Ultimate edition basically cuts your price in half. Who in their right mind would buy regular Origins over the ultimate edition? It makes the original obsolete. How is what Capcom is doing here any worse than what Bioware did with Origins?

[csfteeeer]

Ukki wrote...

To OP question, as a PC player if the DA3 is like DA2. That will prevent me from buying the game.

This.

[sunderlance]

lol, duck quick MerinTB, AngryFrozenWater, lol.

Hey, first and foremost, I want to say thanks to everybody for replying. I appreciate hearing from all sides. Like I said, I have spoken to quite a few people about the game - part of a rather big gaming community, consoles and pc - so that was why I used the term "we", (for those who wanted to enter the chat just to go "no, no, no, presumptuous"). I did point out that I was looking for and hoping for constructive and intelligent conversation, and I'm thankful that for the most-part that's what I've gotten.

Someone said; "Dynasty Age", which made me laugh and I have to say its the best description for what I felt playing this game. And while someone suggested that I went in expecting not to like the game, I have to say nothing was further from the truth. I've already pointed out how big a fan I am of Bioware, and I had nothing but high hopes for this game, which is why I kept going with it, and even made that second character and bought the DLCs.

As it's been said, the majority of complaints were from people who were hoping for and expecting "Dragon Age Origins 2" and not DA2. And while it's great to hear that it worked for some people out there (it's not even-handed if both sides aren't present), someone here has already said the important thing; pc sales are dropping, big time. A friend even pointed out to me that a gaming developer at PAX admitted that their pc sales had dropped to only 15% of all games sold. I thought that was insane, but it made some sense since a lot of PC gamers do feel they are being given an inferior product, or one that offers up very old graphics capabilities.

I do believe that Bioware do, in fact, give a crap about this stuff - especially since it was Bioware and not EA who put out the High-Res texture pack after DA2's release, which is why I made the effort to post up - in the past I've been surprised by just how closely some developers will watch their forums.

In the past I've seen too many decent conversations degrade into ****ing matches, and I appreciate how most have kept it honest and straight-forward so far. I think it's important that these sorts of "petitions" be put forward constructively since otherwise few-to-no-body would listen. But I think the point of this topic has been made so, in that spirit, I think I'll follow MerinTB and bow out now, having said what I felt I really needed to say.

Thanks again to everyone for the replies, from both sides. Gonna cross my fingers now and visit Tibet, Norway, Greece etc. and pray to Budda, Zeus, Allah, Jesus and Odin that the next game rocks and, hopefully, as someone has already said, mixes the best of both games.

Take it easy all,
Chris.

Modifié par sunderlance, 15 septembre 2011 - 10:50 .

[element eater]

DAOUE makes DAO obsolete as a new product but not as an existing one as everything you get with the origional copy is still viable and in terms of game content is identical. If you have paid more for the dlc this is simply due to your readiness to buy dlc items on release rather then wait for the later bundle package(in much the same way a customer decides wether to buy release day gammes or leave it a few months for price drops). The UE effectively reduces the price of the dlc content as you said. The differance is that both existing and new copies of sf4 are inferior products in almost everyway and which has effectively had is competitive community killed of in favour of the new one. Additionaly with ss4 they then released another version that is effectively an 'ultimate' ultimate addition. Were as biowares ultimate addition is just that and in owning that you are aware that you have the entire experiance and will not simply be compelled to pay more later on. 

Bioware release the UE they do not harm the standard users in anyway other then arguably overcharging them for dlc the game experiance remains the same between owners of the two versions. The price paid for the content being the only real differance.

When Capcom release the super/arcade versions of sf they effectively kill of the original title in every respect leaving the owners of the original with an inferior gameplay experiance unlike DAOUE this can not be made up for in any form they must either re buy the product in order to obtain the new content or they must do without.

Modifié par element eater, 16 septembre 2011 - 12:13 .

[Shadow Fox]

Zanallen wrote...

element eater wrote...

no its not a dlc rant its more focused on Capcom and there awful methods of making money (re-releasing street fighter4 3 times, selling on disc content, cutting game content deliberately to sell later etc) at the expense of gamers who rather depressingly buy into it which simply serves to make the problem even worse.

at op yeh i agree with alot of what you say i think alot of people do tbh, although i wouldnt say i was an out and out pc gamer i do play bioware games on pc.

It is a DLC rant.

Cutting content from the game to sell it as DLC = DLC issue.
Selling content on disc as DLC = DLC issue.
As for rereleasing the game...How is that any different than releasing ultimate editions or game of the year editions? It isn't the exact same game, after all. The rereleases include new characters and game modes on top of what the original game offered.

And really, Capcom has been doing this for years. Or don't you remember Street Fighter II, Super Street Fighter II, Super Street Figher II Turbo and all that other crap. There is a reason I no longer buy their games. Hell, Megaman has been the same damn game since the first one. The mechanics have barely changed and most of the robot masters are just alternate element versions of the ones that came before. If gamers refuse to learn and want to keep buying Capcom products then so be it. It doesn't affect me.

I buy Street Fighter for Chun Li

[Mike Laidlaw]

I'm going to guess that when the OP said that his points will kill things for "PC Gamers," he was more referring to the older-school, more hard-core RPG crowd, who, admittedly, tend to focus on the PC as a platform.

I will simply say this: your points are duly noted, and things we are taking very seriously. I would like, very much, to bring more agency to the protagonist of major future DA releases, to the point where the team has a mandate to that effect. Unfortunately, I cannot go into details at this time.

It'll be a while before I can; but feel free to ask more about your exact points once some concrete info is out. (It'll be a while)

[JakePT]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
I would like, very much, to bring more agency to the protagonist of major future DA releases, to the point where the team has a mandate to that effect. Unfortunately, I cannot go into details at this time.

Based on a bunch of interviews etc with David Gaider, it seems as if on DA2 there was an explicit attempt to 'fake' player agency and give an illusion of choice, I just hope on DA3 you aren't trying this again. This comment gives me some hope that you genuinely want to improve this area.

On the other hand, in the lead up to DA2, you called it "Our most reactive game yet" but I simply can't see how at any point you could have thought that was true, given how little substantive reactivity there was.

EDIT: Wasn't being very fair.

Modifié par JakePT, 16 septembre 2011 - 06:13 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

I'm going to guess that when the OP said that his points will kill things for "PC Gamers," he was more referring to the older-school, more hard-core RPG crowd, who, admittedly, tend to focus on the PC as a platform.

I will simply say this: your points are duly noted, and things we are taking very seriously. I would like, very much, to bring more agency to the protagonist of major future DA releases, to the point where the team has a mandate to that effect. Unfortunately, I cannot go into details at this time.

I hope you've made a sematic error, there, and are attempting to bring more agency to the player, rather than the protagonist.

If you're bringing more agency to the protagonist, then you're fixing the wrong problem.

And I very much hope you understand the distinction I'm making.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 16 septembre 2011 - 07:14 .

[Firky]

I'm with Sylvius on this one.

(But, Mike might have meant "protagonist", because the OP was mentioning stuff like story jumps, etc.)

Still, if agency just means in a narrative context, branching storylines, etc, then good. But, I agree, player agency is more critical for me, too. Gameplay stuff.

[Kidd]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

I'm going to guess that when the OP said that his points will kill things for "PC Gamers," he was more referring to the older-school, more hard-core RPG crowd, who, admittedly, tend to focus on the PC as a platform.

I suppose you're right, there. As somebody who loves BG yet hopped over to consoles by KotOR though, it does feel kinda insulting when things are worded the way they were in the OP though =)

Happy to see more agency for the protagonist in DA3 btw. It's one of the few things I felt was conceptually 'wrong' with DA2.

element eater wrote...

The UE effectively reduces the price of the dlc content as you said. The differance is that both existing and new copies of sf4 are inferior products in almost everyway and which has effectively had is competitive community killed of in favour of the new one. Additionaly with ss4 they then released another version that is effectively an 'ultimate' ultimate addition. Were as biowares ultimate addition is just that and in owning that you are aware that you have the entire experiance and will not simply be compelled to pay more later on.

To be fair, the SSF4 Arcade Edition release you're mentioning as the "ultimate ultimate edition" -is- just a bundle of DLC. If you own the first SSF4, you can get the AE content as DLC - no need to buy a completely new game. Add to that how SSF4 was priced at half the price of SF4 and I kinda think people are overreacting. If anything is evil over at Capcom it's mostly how they handle DLC costumes and their pricings, not the new game releases.

[CaisLaochach]

I preferred DA:O, but I enjoyed DA:2. And it runs a little better on my laptop. So I think I'll probably get DA:3.

[RosaAquafire]

Allow me to just say --

PC gamer here, and a big fan of Dragon Age 2 (liked it better than the first) ... but your points are incredibly well made and I agree with much of what you've said. While I'm willing to accept a lot of DA2's flaws in exchange for the awesome things it gave us (more options in relationship pathing, faster and more responsive combat, cinematic dialogue, more inter-party dialogue, far superiour talent trees, etc.), so much of what you've said is very true. I constantly felt that things we should be seeing where happening offscreen and barely touched on when we were with the characters. Waves of enemies disrupted the flow and killed a lot of the tactics of combat. There was a disconnect between Hawke and the player that there never was with the Warden.

I guess I'm fortunate that most of what was lost between games were things I considered a fair exchange, but I realize not everyone feels that way. If there's any way to give players all those wonderful shiney new things from DA2 that I loved so much without throwing away the baby with the bathwater, I hope we can find it in future games.

For myself, so long as Bioware cares about writing a good story and evolving the RPGenre, I'm here. I'd rather RPGs go in the direction of DA2 (too accessible) than of the Witcher (giant barrier of entry that adds mountains of logistics to every action) but I think there's a spot between DA:O and DA2 that we can hopefully hit together.

Very well spoken, my good man. While our overall opinions are quite different, I think the microcosms are the same -- and even if they weren't, I respect your well spoken and respectful criticisms a lot.

[RussianSpy27]

OP: Thanks for the thoughtful post.

1) The weaknesses in story are applicable not only to PC but to consoles as well. The title of your post refers mainly to your first point about combat. 

2) You keep on mentioning XBox. PS3 exists too (waives)

[shai-hulud-lama]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Origins is near perfection on the PC.

not perfomance wise...at least not for me. DA2 runs much smoother on my machine than origins. Espacially the loading times become extremly long for origins.

Regarding the topic: I don't understand the big difference people make between pc and consoles...it seems artificial to me. The game has simply to be good. On every systems.
That is why there is no special fault that would kill the game solely for me as a pc gamer. What would kill the game for me , would also kill the game for a console player i suppose (bad story, not fun at all, etc. etc.)

[The_11thDoctor]

Allow me to use a controller and Ill gladly switch to PC for Bioware games. That and REMOVE EA ORIGIN. Do those 2 things and I'll become a Bioware PC gamer. Only reason I dont play on PC for ME and DA. Until then Ill stay on the best console version, PS3. Please remember to fill up my BluRay Disk with uncompressed data. Thank you.

Modifié par aang001, 16 septembre 2011 - 03:59 .