276 réponses à ce sujet

[happy_daiz]

Is this another PC/console debate? Blah. I have all 3 (PC, XBox, PS3), just so I don't miss any of the games I want to play.

[DoNotIngest]

Funny. I found Hawke to be more relatable than Shepard.

[Sylvius the Mad]

shai-hulud-lama wrote...

not perfomance wise...at least not for me. DA2 runs much smoother on my machine than origins. Espacially the loading times become extremly long for origins.

DA2's menu screens stress my video cards.  I don't know why, but whenever I open the talents page of the inventory, my cooling fans accelerate.

DAO certainly never had that problem.  DAO ran much better on my machine than DA2 does.

Regarding the topic: I don't understand the big difference people make between pc and consoles...it seems artificial to me. The game has simply to be good. On every systems.

I think the things that make the game good on PC are different from the things that make it good on consoles, and I think BioWare has demonstrated that they're not willing to make the two versions substantively different.

Therefore, at least one of the two will suffer.

[caradoc2000]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

whenever I open the talents page of the inventory, my cooling fans accelerate.

You could say it is a fan favorite then

[Maconbar]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

whenever I open the talents page of the inventory, my cooling fans accelerate.

You could say it is a fan favorite then

hehe

[Relix28]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

whenever I open the talents page of the inventory, my cooling fans accelerate.

You could say it is a fan favorite then

Nice pun. lol

[Persephone]

What will kill DA3 for PC Gamers?

A monster chewing on gaming discs with Bioware logos.

Wait, this is another "More DAO, DAII kills kittens!" drama? Mixed with a nice PC "adults" vs. "console kiddies" brawl?

What will kill DAIII? Threads like this.

*Bows out*

[bEVEsthda]

Persephone wrote...

What will kill DA3 for PC Gamers?

A monster chewing on gaming discs with Bioware logos.

Wait, this is another "More DAO, DAII kills kittens!" drama? Mixed with a nice PC "adults" vs. "console kiddies" brawl?

What will kill DAIII? Threads like this.

*Bows out*

And you considered you wanted to make that post because...?

[Nefario]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I think the things that make the game good on PC are different from the things that make it good on consoles, and I think BioWare has demonstrated that they're not willing to make the two versions substantively different.

Therefore, at least one of the two will suffer.

I have to disagree with you there. Have you played the console versions?
For me, two things I thought of as improvements from Origins to DA2 were move-to-point commands and push-to-attack (for playing a warrior or sometimes a rogue, at least). The former was already in the PC version, but missing from Origins on consoles, the latter was never included in the PC version.
So we have an example of the console game being improved by being made more like the PC version, and an example of a substantive difference in the way the two versions were made.

But hey, yay for false dichotomies.

[Persephone]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Persephone wrote...

What will kill DA3 for PC Gamers?

A monster chewing on gaming discs with Bioware logos.

Wait, this is another "More DAO, DAII kills kittens!" drama? Mixed with a nice PC "adults" vs. "console kiddies" brawl?

What will kill DAIII? Threads like this.

*Bows out*

And you considered you wanted to make that post because...?

Because I wanted to and I was bored. Plain and simple. 

[devSin]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

DA2's menu screens stress my video cards.  I don't know why, but whenever I open the talents page of the inventory, my cooling fans accelerate.

I believe it's because it craps out trying to render something that simple as fast as it possibly can (since it takes so little effort to render, it just starts spamming frames). Without an upper cap on fps, it'll let loose.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

DAO certainly never had that problem.  DAO ran much better on my machine than DA2 does.

Origins should have this problem at the main menu (during character creation IIRC). But the in-game screens didn't block out the world view, so that was getting at least partially rendered even with the sub-interfaces up.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Nefario wrote...

I have to disagree with you there. Have you played the console versions?
For me, two things I thought of as improvements from Origins to DA2 were move-to-point commands and push-to-attack (for playing a warrior or sometimes a rogue, at least). The former was already in the PC version, but missing from Origins on consoles, the latter was never included in the PC version.
So we have an example of the console game being improved by being made more like the PC version, and an example of a substantive difference in the way the two versions were made.

But hey, yay for false dichotomies.

It's not universally true, but there are many cases where it is.  The tactical camera, for example.  It certainly made DAO better on PC, but on console it would have slowed framerates too much, so the best console version of DAO didn't have the tactical camera.

What about the dialogue?  How long are dialogue options in DA2?  They're limited to 30 characters.  Now, obviously, a longer paraphrase would allow more detail for the player, so that would be good, but 30 characters is all that will fit on the screen of a console running at 640*480.  Longer paraphrases would make the game unplayable for many console players, but clearly be a better option for PC players.

[Sylvius the Mad]

devSin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

DA2's menu screens stress my video cards.  I don't know why, but whenever I open the talents page of the inventory, my cooling fans accelerate.

I believe it's because it craps out trying to render something that simple as fast as it possibly can (since it takes so little effort to render, it just starts spamming frames). Without an upper cap on fps, it'll let loose.

That makes sense.  We were told that DA2's menu screens were easier for consoles to render, and given that they're simpler, I can see why.  But they do create a problem on the PC that DAO's more resource-intensive screens did not.

[Nefario]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

It's not universally true, but there are many cases where it is.  The tactical camera, for example.  It certainly made DAO better on PC, but on console it would have slowed framerates too much, so the best console version of DAO didn't have the tactical camera.

What about the dialogue?  How long are dialogue options in DA2?  They're limited to 30 characters.  Now, obviously, a longer paraphrase would allow more detail for the player, so that would be good, but 30 characters is all that will fit on the screen of a console running at 640*480.  Longer paraphrases would make the game unplayable for many console players, but clearly be a better option for PC players.

No.
The tactical camera is an example of something they weren't able to implement on consoles. The lack of a tactical camera is not an example of what makes the game good on consoles. Had they been able to work it in, the console version would have been a better game. It's not that the best console version possible didn't have a tactical camera. The only actual version didn't have it. Big difference.

The second part is personal opinion. A person playing the game on PC may prefer shorter paraphrases - for the sake of immediacy, perhaps. The desirabilty of longer paraphrases is unrelated to platform.
In any case, I doubt longer paraphrases would be difficult to work in on consoles, regardless of screen resolution, had that been something they intended to include. Using multiple lines of text for each option, increasing the size of the wheel, moving the position - there are many options. Believe it or not, many games display long lines of text on consoles.

[happy_daiz]

Rojahar wrote...

Deus Ex Human Revolution on console allowed you to see everything you'd say witha dialog choice. Often a paragraph or so long.

A paragraph? I played the XBox version, and I can tell you that the longest bits of written dialogue were a sentence at the most. Sure, Jensen actually said more than what was shown, but it was not all displayed on the screen.

Personally, I really liked the way Deus Ex paraphrased, and I think the line length would be perfectly suited for the DA series. The main reason though, is that what was spoken was EXACTLY what was shown, plus a bit more.

How on earth did I get sucked up into this topic?

Modifié par happy_daiz, 16 septembre 2011 - 09:56 .

[Nefario]

happy_daiz wrote...

Rojahar wrote...

Deus Ex Human Revolution on console allowed you to see everything you'd say witha dialog choice. Often a paragraph or so long.

A paragraph? I played the XBox version, and I can tell you that the longest bits of written dialogue were a sentence at the most. Sure, Jensen actually said more than what was shown, but it was not all displayed on the screen.

Personally, I really liked the way Deus Ex paraphrased, and I think the line length would be perfectly suited for the DA series. The main reason though, is that what was spoken was EXACTLY what was shown, plus a bit more.

How on earth did I get sucked up into this topic?

Well, when the text is exactly the same as what's spoken, it's not a paraphrase. But I do realize I'm being pedantic in pointing that out. I think you've got a good point there.
What I'd like from paraphrases isn't to have the exact spoken line present on screen, but to have at least a few key words from the dialogue included in some sort of truncated paraphrase. In DA2 it did seem that they tried to avoid repeating the dialogue in the paraphrase (and I think I remember one of the developers stating that this was their intent), but I think the system would work better if the actual dialogue was more in line with the exact wording of the paraphrase.

[Skadi_Shroom]

I am half in agreement with this.
I personally love the feel of combat, much faster and far more viceral. It is a huge change from tradional RPG combat which has always felt turn based. I am not so hot on the waves of enemies, I felt DAO did this better.

Storyline wise DAO was much more gripping. I felt far more connected to my Warden and my family during the Human Noble Origin than I did with the Hawkes. I think the opening should have been longer - maybe actually starting with you finding your family in Lothering, either with Carver if you have escaped Ostagar or with Bethany if you were a mage. These little sidequests can make you far more attached to your characters, and would make the events before Kirkwall far more emotional. You just don't spend enough time with them to care.  This is in comparision to the storyline with Leandra which do get an emotional response, because you've interacted and she's 'grown' on you.

[Side note: I had a genuine response to the Human Noble Origin. You tell your parents you love them, you joke with your brother and sister in law, and laugh at Oren asking about wenches. You go to bed, either with company or just Dog sleeping on the floor and get woken up. The emotional response is triggered by how the Teryrna reacts to peoples deaths. By the end of it, you had a connection to your Warden. You wanted revenge and to survive to continue your line.]

I can get past the recycled environments [especially with DLC to break up the questing] but I can't get past the feeling of not having an impact on the world. My Warden helped change Ferelden. My Champion just cleaned up after everyone elses changes. Anders was always going to do what he does. The Qunari were always going to make trouble.

If my Warden left Redcliffe during the day, everyone dies. If my Champion does stuff, well, it doesn't change anything significant. This is what DA2 missed out on.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Rojahar wrote...

Deus Ex Human Revolution on console allowed you to see everything you'd say witha dialog choice. Often a paragraph or so long.

Not relevant.  Given the wheel UI that BioWare is using, our paraphrases are limited to 30 characters because of the screen resolution of SDTVs.

Presumably BioWare thinks the wheel itself has value.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Nefario wrote...

The tactical camera is an example of something they weren't able to implement on consoles. The lack of a tactical camera is not an example of what makes the game good on consoles.

Given that the alternative was a broken game, yes it is.

[Alex Kershaw]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

I'm going to guess that when the OP said that his points will kill things for "PC Gamers," he was more referring to the older-school, more hard-core RPG crowd, who, admittedly, tend to focus on the PC as a platform.

I will simply say this: your points are duly noted, and things we are taking very seriously. I would like, very much, to bring more agency to the protagonist of major future DA releases, to the point where the team has a mandate to that effect. Unfortunately, I cannot go into details at this time.

It'll be a while before I can; but feel free to ask more about your exact points once some concrete info is out. (It'll be a while)

I don't get this stereotype that people who prefer DAO style combat to DA2 style combat have to be 'oldschool'. I'm under 20 and I prefer the tactical style of play. Also, I preferred ME2 over ME1 (the OP also mentioned this) so it wasn't a case of hating the move to action, it was simply the fact that in my opinion, DAO had more fun combat than DA2. Also, the OP's main point seemed to be about the story rather than the connection to the world/plot/characters (and I'd agree with that being the main issue - obviously Kirkwall was the big cause here).

[Nefario]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Nefario wrote...

The tactical camera is an example of something they weren't able to implement on consoles. The lack of a tactical camera is not an example of what makes the game good on consoles.

Given that the alternative was a broken game, yes it is.

Again, I disagree. Not being a game developer, I don't know what it would have taken to get a tactical camera into a console version of the game. But certainly it's at least theoretically possible. And certainly its inclusion - especially if its use was optional, just as it was in the PC version - would not have broken the game, even if it weren't fully functional.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your response here. Can you elaborate? What do you mean when you say the alternative was a broken game? That any RPG including an overhead, detached camera view would inherently break in a console version? Or do you mean to say that DA:O, specifically, could not have included a detached overhead view without breaking the game?

Whatever it is that you mean, aren't we arguing about the goals of future game development, rather than what's been possible in past iterations of the franchise? So unless you mean to say that any sort of tactical camera is impossible in a console version of a future DA game, I don't see how your argument is relevant.
If that is what you mean, I'm not sure I agree. Though, again, I can't really speak to what is or is not possible in the world of game development. 

[element eater]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...
To be fair, the SSF4 Arcade Edition release you're mentioning as the "ultimate ultimate edition" -is- just a bundle of DLC. If you own the first SSF4, you can get the AE content as DLC - no need to buy a completely new game. Add to that how SSF4 was priced at half the price of SF4 and I kinda think people are overreacting. If anything is evil over at Capcom it's mostly how they handle DLC costumes and their pricings, not the new game releases.

yeh noted although i do think capcom are pretty bad in this respect look at mvc3 they already got  a new version coming up and have even scheduled dlc for it imcluding characters. Despite my complaining i do actualy like these products (although i think sf4 was probably the worst incarnation of the series ive played) and i cant vouch for the half price thing  seeing as i totaly ignored that release so ill take ur word on it. But, if memory serves it wasnt when i checked.
I would simply like them to modernise in this respect and focus on updates thru patching and dlc rather than out dated and over priced update methods. 

my point was meant to be that in dao the ue conatained everything while in ssf4 u still didnt get every peace of content and still ahd to shell out more moneys

also cool avatar

Modifié par element eater, 17 septembre 2011 - 12:25 .

[Maconbar]

What a pile of baloney.

Everyone knows that bad hair styles will kill DA:3 for PC gamers.