276 réponses à ce sujet

[nightcobra]

Adrian68b wrote...

The most stunning difference between DAO and DA2 is about the initial prestige of the played character. In DAO he and Alistair are heroes from the beginning (after Ostagar) simply because they are the ONLY surviving Grey Wardens in Ferelden (most important people during a Blight).
In contrast, Hawke is just another Fereldan refugee in Act1. Such as, he is ignored by the politically powerful people. DA2 quests are designed in order to gradually introduce Hawke to them (ex. Act 1: templar quest -> Cullen; seneschal -> Viscount).
And I loved it.

loved that too.

i'd like it if DA3 is set in orlais, to begin as a nobody and work our way up to become a chevalier, lord and maybe general or emperor 

DA3 could use DA2's diplomatic, charming and agressive system but also making sure that the "decision" choices actually influence the quest greatly like in origins. 

[Adrian68b]

"DA3 could use DA2's diplomatic, charming and agressive system but also making sure that the "decision" choices actually influence the quest greatly like in origins. "

Unfortunately, if DA3 will be set in Orlais, then we hope in vain. As I see it, Kirkwall and Orlais nobles are similar in their general disregard lower born. I was tired hearing during Act1 the classical "Move out of my way, Fereldan dog!"

[Adrian68b]

Even if Hawke is practically the heir of an old Kirkwall noble house. BUT he is Fereldan born...

[nightcobra]

Adrian68b wrote...

"DA3 could use DA2's diplomatic, charming and agressive system but also making sure that the "decision" choices actually influence the quest greatly like in origins. "

Unfortunately, if DA3 will be set in Orlais, then we hope in vain. As I see it, Kirkwall and Orlais nobles are similar in their general disregard lower born. I was tired hearing during Act1 the classical "Move out of my way, Fereldan dog!"

before attaining the status of chevalier or a highly prestiged rank in society i don't mind that.
the problem was that in DA2 when hawke becomes a noble and champion he/she's still being an errand boy like it was in act 1.

[Adrian68b]

"the problem was that in DA2 when hawke becomes a noble and champion he/she's still being an errand boy like it was in act 1."

TRUE!

[Adrian68b]

After Act3 introductory scene and especially after the noble's quests, I hoped for something big (Hawke building his own noble faction, similar to DAO). And... NOTHING! Meredith treated him like a servant during her quest (she wasn't at all concerned by his siding with the nobles - I did the noble quest first). The noble party disappeared in thin air (no appearance after the quests). It seemed like Hawke reputation as Champion only worked OUTSIDE Kirkwall (Alistair, Fenryel, Zevran).

[Dragoonlordz]

Or how about instead of rising up through society which was imho lame in DA2 for a million reasons, Start in Orlias as someone uber high up very well known and powerfull and through course of game become a nobody.

Rags to riches becomes riches to rags.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:43 .

[Adrian68b]

"Rags to riches becomes riches to rags."

Nice!

[Adrian68b]

I don't mind playing a RPG with flaws (in fact I still rate DA2 above DAO) so long the story and immersion are good. But some design errors in DA2 (DAO also) were simply stupid (those related to resources/inventory - see above).
The political struggle was better represented in DA2, and for me it was important (I liked for that reason Anora in DAO - disliked her conduit and personality, but she was so much a politician!).
I'm just thinking about how much better DA2 would became with just a bit more freedom-of-choice for Hawke in Act3. As it is, Hawke appears more like "folower of Orsino/Meredith".
What puzzles me is the fact that Bioware already done it in DA2. Just compare the final quest in Act2 and Act3.

[Adrian68b]

Just imagine an Act3 with the same reputation meter used for the Arishok (Hawke gaining influence over templars/mages/nobles)...

[Adrian68b]

Similar to the system used in DAO (Landsrad meeting).

[NedPepper]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

I don't like going quoting everything and stuff, but it would be a bit simplier that way.

nedpepper wrote...
You create who Hawke is.

Umm, that's what developers stated many times to promote the game. And you are doing the same baseless statement.

..Hawke.. can have any back story, personality, and motives that you choose to give him

Sure, I cant pretend there is something in the game while it's actually is't there, but what's the point?

It's a case of being disappointed by gameplay and using that cynical mindset toward the rest of the game.

And here it seems it's the case of being delusional about your amount of psychiatric expertise.

My Hawkes are all very different and every play through feels like a creative exercise

That should go into a demotivation poster. Someone find a good picture.

And you are an ****.  People can disagree without your dismissive, insulting non-arguments.  If anyone is delusional, it's a guy who is posting the same cynical crap on a message board for a game he doesn't like six months after its release. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

nedpepper wrote...

My Hawkes are all very different and every play through feels like a creative exercise.

If the game never contradicts your design, then you're not doing much creating.  If the player designs Hawke's personality in any significant detail, DA2 will necessarily contradict the player repeatedly throughout the game unless the player had foreknowledge of the writers' intent when designing Hawke's personality.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 18 septembre 2011 - 09:31 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Yellow Words wrote...
I'll try and explain without using spoilers and still make it understandable.

That seems like, uh, dietary approach on roleplaying. It's not hard to write three diffirent responses for each situation, if consequences of choosing them would stay somewhere behind the overall plot. And it's not like DA:O lacked the option to be gentle, snarky or mean. You just like the sound of Hawke's voice, maybe?

And you are an ****.  People can disagree without your dismissive,
insulting non-arguments.  If anyone is delusional, it's a guy who is
posting the same cynical crap on a message board for a game he doesn't
like six months after its release.

You mad, bro?

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 18 septembre 2011 - 11:53 .

[FieryDove]

nedpepper wrote...
How do you know that?  Unless Meridith kills him, who else was there?  Because without Hawke, you don't even have a strong leader in Aveline in the City Guard.   Could the Arishok hold it?  I don't know, but it would probaby take an Exalted March against the Qunari and the Qunari/Thedas tensions would have been amplified without Hawke.  And the Arishok could turn every elf into a Qunari and probaby some of the Fereldens in Darktown.  He was already doing that.  That's how they really take over a city.  Through religion, not force.

Meredith could have defeated the Arishok easily.

If needed she would even have let a few birds out of the cages to fight them. That's the only reason they are allowed to live is to fight Quanri.

nedpepper wrote...
You create who Hawke is.  I'm not sure what makes this any different from any other western RPG.  In fact, Hawke can be man or woman, and can have any back story, personality, and motives that you choose to give him.  There's no disconnect.  It's a case of being disappointed by gameplay and using that cynical mindset toward the rest of the game.  That's my take, at least.  My Hawkes are all very different and every play through feels like a creative exercise.
 

No disconnect?

If I don't know what my character is going to say before selecting an option then it's no longer my character. The dominant personality is also broken for some types of Hawke's. Several of mine being: Diplo to friends/family snark/charming to most npc's, aggressive to evil/idiot npc's.

As far as motives go all of them wanted to leave KW after a ceratin event. There was no point in staying nor was there much point in any *titles* given. Hawke rose to powerlessness, but I imagine that title would not be approved in marketing - a pity as it would have been more honest.

All imho

Modifié par FieryDove, 19 septembre 2011 - 12:11 .

[Morroian]

FieryDove wrote...

Meredith could have defeated the Arishok easily.

Not without the <spoiler> which she arguably wouldn't have had without Hawke.

ETA spoiler removed.

Modifié par Morroian, 19 septembre 2011 - 12:42 .

[Boiny Bunny]

Zanallen wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Zanellen wrote...

That's true. PC gamers do seem to have a greater sense of entitlement and they certainly seem to whine more than console gamers.

Really?  Imagine the response from console gamers if DA3 didn't support 640*480 screen resolutions.  Or if it didn't get a proper console UI, and instead saddled console players with a mouse pointer they hadf to move around with an analog stick.  Or if the commands were all mapped to different combinations of controller buttons, so that no one command ever did more than one thing (forcing you to depress several buttons simultaneously to activate most abilities).

That;s analogous to the deficiencies PC gamerrs currently see.  Thy get games with console UIs that don't really work on a PC.  They get single buttons or keys mapped to several commands all at once, with no way to uncouple them.  And they get core design decisions (like the length of dialogue options) determined by their ability to fit on a 640*480 screen, even though PC games haven't supported that resolution for 10 years.

The difference is that right now PC gamers aren't being served as well as console gamers are, so they complain louder.

And none of those points have anything to do with the topic at hand.

I love the way when somebody (Sylvius) makes a good point and you appear to honestly have nothing to say to it, you attempt to tell them that they are misdirecting the topic at hand - while really, everything he said was in direct response to your own comment above, which was already as much a misdirection as his response...then you proceed to post a series of comments far more off topic than anything Sylvius said, immediately after (relating to a youtube video somebody linked)!

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 19 septembre 2011 - 03:11 .

[Anyroad2]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

In fact, Hawke can be man or woman, and can have any back story, personality, and motives that you choose to give him.

No he can't.  He can't like slavers, for example.  He cannot approve of Fenris's killing of Hadriana while at the same time opposing Fenris's hatred of mages generally.  There are all manner of things Hawke cannot do because of the personality design BioWare gave him.

Thats not an issue with Hawke, thats because DA2 is a video game. Video games have limits. There will be people who run into them, no matter what. Plain and simple.

Even DAO had constradictions and limits. A Cousland can't dislike their parents. A Mage Warden has to start out in the Circle, theres no Apostate Origin. You cannot create a cowardly Warden because then theyd just leave Ferelden and forget about the Blight. The player character can't decide not to go through The Joining Ritual. Ect.

[happy_daiz]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Really?  Imagine the response from console gamers if DA3 didn't support 640*480 screen resolutions.  Or if it didn't get a proper console UI, and instead saddled console players with a mouse pointer they hadf to move around with an analog stick.  Or if the commands were all mapped to different combinations of controller buttons, so that no one command ever did more than one thing (forcing you to depress several buttons simultaneously to activate most abilities).

Wait, what? 640x480? Are you saying that DA was set up to support that godawful resolution? I have my xbox set at 1080p (equivalent to 1920x1080), supported by my LED HDTV. Are there seriously people still out there using 640x480? Wow. Just wow.

/facepalm

Modifié par happy_daiz, 19 septembre 2011 - 03:00 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

happy_daiz wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Really?  Imagine the response from console gamers if DA3 didn't support 640*480 screen resolutions.  Or if it didn't get a proper console UI, and instead saddled console players with a mouse pointer they hadf to move around with an analog stick.  Or if the commands were all mapped to different combinations of controller buttons, so that no one command ever did more than one thing (forcing you to depress several buttons simultaneously to activate most abilities).

Wait, what? 640x480? Are you saying that DA was set up to support that godawful resolution? I have my xbox set at 1080p (equivalent to 1920x1080), supported by my LED HDTV. Are there seriously people still out there using 640x480? Wow. Just wow.

640*480 is a standard definition television.  Many people have such a thing.  My television is standard definition.

But I don't use my TV for gaming.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Anyroad2 wrote...

Thats not an issue with Hawke, thats because DA2 is a video game. Video games have limits. There will be people who run into them, no matter what. Plain and simple.

That there will be limits doesn't mean that we have to accept extremely restrictive limits.

No one's claiming that a game can be made without limits.  I'm claiming that a game can be made with fewer limits, and it clearly can.

Even DAO had constradictions and limits. A Cousland can't dislike their parents.

Untrue.  A Cousland can dislike his parents, but he cannot voice is disdain.  Contrast that with Hawke, who cannot even be indifferent to Leandra's welfare.  The ambient dialogue alone destroys that characte design.

A Mage Warden has to start out in the Circle, theres no Apostate Origin.

That's not a restriction on roleplaying.  A mage doesn't generally get to choose whether he's in the circle.  Origins does leave you free to decide how the mage warden views the Circle.

You cannot create a cowardly Warden because then theyd just leave Ferelden and forget about the Blight.

You can create a cowardly warden.  I've done exactly that.  The game doesn't model running away events, but you can want to run away.  You can even try (to be fair, you can try leaving Kirkwall, too - and the journey to Kirkwall is no more of a railroad than the journey to Ostagar in DAO).  You can choose not to talk to people.  You can choose not to accept or complete quests.  Not so in DA2.  Try not talking to NPCs in DA2.  The number of times the game forces Hawke into conversations is incredible.  It happens in Origins, too, but it happens far less often.

Origins isn't perfect, but it's better.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 19 septembre 2011 - 05:36 .

[csfteeeer]

JosephCurwen wrote...

PresidentCowboy wrote...

JosephCurwen wrote...

Dragon Age 2 already killed Dragon Age 3 for PC gamers.

PC gamers who dislike good games, sure

  Best laugh I've had all day!

ROFL

Indeed!!!!

and he complain about the Generalization of the OP....

Modifié par csfteeeer, 19 septembre 2011 - 05:32 .