351 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradace]

Sutle_Misou wrote...

i'm sure you've been getting a lot of these, but....
i hate, as i'm sure most people do,  limited ammo clips. it makes it a lot harder playing Insanity Level when you run out, and there NO spare clips laying around. can we get the over-heating/cooldown feature, and use augments to fix the weapon ourselfs, like in the first game?

hate to tell you but they're using the ME2 ammo system.  Game is pretty much in final production phase at this point.  They're just getting out all the bugs etc.  Adding anything major (like ammo system for example) is pretty much out of the question.  I personally like having a finite amount of ammo.  It makes you think about every shot you take and weeds out the players who like to "spray and pray" so to speak.  Unless you're just a HORRIBLY bad shot, you should have plenty of ammo even on Insanity.  Ive blown through Insanity on my Soldier and honestly, it was almost easier than it was on my Engineer.  And guess what? I NEVER ran out of ammo. You know what that means right? That YOU need to think about your shots better and as I said before, not "Spray and pray".  

/thread

[111987]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

111987 wrote...

I won't get into all the details (because I'm too lazy), but ME1's combat was really unsatisfying. The main strategy for any encounter is just run into the middle of the room, hold down the trigger button, and spam your infinite assault rifle at enemies.

Wait a second.  If that tactic (that's a tactic, not a strategy, by the way) wasn't fun, why did you do it?

Was there a viable alternative? Not really...you could simulate cover shooting but it was woefully inadequate.

[Illiandri]

Thermal Clips are far superior gameplay wise in comparison to the overheat system because it complimented a far superior gaming experience, which was found in ME2. I made my mind up finally after paying 4 pounds for Pinacle Station. GOD I wish I didn't buy it. Everything that was wrong with the gameplay in ME1 was exemplified there. No tactics, no finesse just shody shooting.

Playing ME2 I find myself using the powers of the class while in ME1 once I got the Assault rifle skill for all classes I hardly ever use their powers with the exception of the initial barrage.

The OP complaining that Insanity is too dificult is illogical.

For those wishing that the ME games be closer to lore I will refrain from any comments as they would likely get me banned. Ever since playing my first RPG in 2000 (Icewind Dale!!!) I have always looked for my spellcasters to be able to dish out a barrage of spells, whether high or low level is irrelevant, and after my recent reading of the ME books the idea of my spellcaster being practically useless after 3 "spells" is abhorent to me. Excellent games have spoiled me with their glass cannon wizards. As such to me having ME lore spellcasters is a hindrance and sign of bad game design, unless you can assure that Shepard can regain his stamina somehow in the middle of the battlefield. If not take your badly designed games and go away.

[Someone With Mass]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Wait a second.  If that tactic (that's a tactic, not a strategy, by the way) wasn't fun, why did you do it?

Yeah, because it's really a good design when you are forced to play the game in a specific way to have fun, right?

The system in ME1 was so easily exploitable.

[NeroSparda]

... You know what, I remember back in Freedom Progress that I remain in cover whenever that giant mech shows up, staying in one room... Actually, there are good places to hide and shoot from whenever those mechs show up in the game... Except two times the mission that you get Grunt in the end and that one mech in Jack's recruitment mission but it almost never gets close to me, only happens once in insanity... And I think there was one time I did ran out of ammo... I don't remember...

Modifié par NeroSparda, 16 septembre 2011 - 05:12 .

[Aradace]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Wait a second.  If that tactic (that's a tactic, not a strategy, by the way) wasn't fun, why did you do it?

Yeah, because it's really a good design when you are forced to play the game in a specific way to have fun, right?

The system in ME1 was so easily exploitable.

And hence why I still own ME1, but never play it anymore.  ME2's combat kinda spoiled me lol.  I went back and played ME1 a bit a while ago and found that I could almost literally walk into a room with my eyes shut, spin around while holding down the trigger on my AR and take out everything in the room.  In the latter parts of the game, you actually CAN do that when you have the appropriate heat sink mods.  Point is, you're right and it made ME1's combat WAAAAAAAAAAY to easy.

[Someone With Mass]

The easiest way I found to kill a mech is to lure it around a piece of cover while taking potshots at it before it has a chance to shoot. Do a couple of laps around this cover, and it should be dead shortly.

[Sylvius the Mad]

111987 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

111987 wrote...

I won't get into all the details (because I'm too lazy), but ME1's combat was really unsatisfying. The main strategy for any encounter is just run into the middle of the room, hold down the trigger button, and spam your infinite assault rifle at enemies.

Wait a second.  If that tactic (that's a tactic, not a strategy, by the way) wasn't fun, why did you do it?

Was there a viable alternative? Not really...you could simulate cover shooting but it was woefully inadequate.

I certainly never ran into a room in ME (because that would be stupid).  I tended to hang back and pick off enemies one at a time (with a sniper rifle, more often than not).  ME routinely allowed you to engage enemies at extreme range, so there was rarely any need to enter a room before you'd killed the things in it.

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, because it's really a good design when you are forced to play the game in a specific way to have fun, right?

Of course not.  But that's exactly what ME2's ammo system does (not to mention the smaller spaces and heavy reliance on cover).

The system in ME1 was so easily exploitable.

But if exploiting it (assuming such a concept even makes sense, which I dispute) isn't fun, then don't do it.

[NeroSparda]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The easiest way I found to kill a mech is to lure it around a piece of cover while taking potshots at it before it has a chance to shoot. Do a couple of laps around this cover, and it should be dead shortly.

I hardly do have trouble with those mechs, and I do stay in the one place that they can't get me and it works fine.

[111987]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

111987 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

111987 wrote...

I won't get into all the details (because I'm too lazy), but ME1's combat was really unsatisfying. The main strategy for any encounter is just run into the middle of the room, hold down the trigger button, and spam your infinite assault rifle at enemies.

Wait a second.  If that tactic (that's a tactic, not a strategy, by the way) wasn't fun, why did you do it?

Was there a viable alternative? Not really...you could simulate cover shooting but it was woefully inadequate.

I certainly never ran into a room in ME (because that would be stupid).  I tended to hang back and pick off enemies one at a time (with a sniper rifle, more often than not).  ME routinely allowed you to engage enemies at extreme range, so there was rarely any need to enter a room before you'd killed the things in it.

Did we even play the same game? Mass Effect 1 had the same 3 environments for the vast majority of combat areas...underground cave, space station room, and base. All of those were tiny environments.

[Wulfram]

Running into the middle of the room and spamming your assault rifle wasn't possible because of the weapon system, but because of Immunity. Which was totally broken, no question.

[Aradace]

NeroSparda wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

The easiest way I found to kill a mech is to lure it around a piece of cover while taking potshots at it before it has a chance to shoot. Do a couple of laps around this cover, and it should be dead shortly.

I hardly do have trouble with those mechs, and I do stay in the one place that they can't get me and it works fine.

Never had a problem with them on my engineer either lol.  Hit cover, spawn combat drone, Mech gets distracted, pop up and spam it with a nice barrage of Mattock rounds and an Overload for good measure (or Incinerate) before the drone dies.  Lather, rinse, repeat as needed and I promise you wont get hit  

[Ygolnac]

clips are fine, i just hope that there will be more drops and some weapon mods that increase mag size.
I tried to edit the coalesced.ini to have infinite ammo but it's not fun, expecially if you are a soldier.
I then edited the mag size for each weapon almost doubling it and i found my oerfect balance.

[Someone With Mass]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But if exploiting it (assuming such a concept even makes sense, which I dispute) isn't fun, then don't do it.

It's pretty much the most effective way to kill things and that's because the overheating is nothing else but annoying.

[Belisarius09]

111987 wrote...

Belisarius09 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

111987 wrote...

Mass Effect 2 trounces Mass Effect 1 in terms of gameplay

I played both games, and I completely disagree.  ME2's combat (which I assume is what you meant by the vague term "gameplay" is less fun partly because it's more frantic, partly because the combat environments tend to be smaller, partly because the levels are designed such that you can only encounter each fight from one direction, partly because the aiming system breaks verisimilitude, partly because the disposable heatsinks break the lore, and partly because the encounters are now designed like they exist within a video game, rather than being something you could credibly find in a real world somewhere.

Like I said, you are definitley in the minority. So why change something the majority of people like to satisfy a very small amount of gamers? I won't get into all the details (because I'm too lazy), but ME1's combat was really unsatisfying. The main strategy for any encounter is just run into the middle of the room, hold down the trigger button, and spam your infinite assault rifle at enemies. Even on Insanity, with the right armor upgrades you will never die. And since the cover system was so bad in ME1, that's really one of the few ways you can play ME1.

just because you are in the majority doesn't mean your opinions are right and ours are wrong. 

as for your "main strategy" I personally never did that, and I've never heard that as the "main strategy" for me1 anywhere. 

Of course it doesn't make my opinion right, but the needs/wants of the many outweigh the needs/wants of the few.

ok fair enough but that wasn't the issue. thermal clips are being kept for me3, thats not debatable, its already been decided, and thats not what we were debating.  several people brought up quite a few strong, valid points showing ways in which they thought the overheat system was better than the thermal clips. your response to their opinion was that they were wrong simply because they were in the minority, and that does not make a good arguement on your part.  If you're going to bother debating with someone the least you can do is dignify them with an acceptable response citing examples to support your claim.

[Dragoonlordz]

I think the only time I have ever died in combat in ME titles was two times, first time against Saren in ME1 where prior I was not expecting his bouncing around like a Licker from Resident Evil. The only other time was in ME2 when in Omega hopped over a pipe and walked around a corner right into enemy with flamethrower... Actually make it three times there was one occassion in ME1 exploring a world came across Geth tunnel that kept going down and down and they all came to life and I simply got overwelmed by shear numbers while at same time back tracking up tunnel.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 septembre 2011 - 06:15 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But if exploiting it (assuming such a concept even makes sense, which I dispute) isn't fun, then don't do it.

It's pretty much the most effective way to kill things and that's because the overheating is nothing else but annoying.

Is your goal to kill things faster, or to enjoy the game?  Because it sounds like that tactic isn't effective at all at producing fun gameplay.

So why were you doing it?

The game shouldn't have to protect you from yourself.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 16 septembre 2011 - 08:41 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I think the only time I have ever died in combat in ME titles was two times, first time against Saren in ME1 where prior I was not expecting his bouncing around like a Licker from Resident Evil.

Saren's jumping was only relevant if you aimed in real time.  If you paused to aim, Saren's jumping only made him more vulnerable (because he stayed still between jumps, giving you time to unpause, scope, and fire before his next leap).

In ME2, the only difficulty I recall was at the end, because the time dilation of the sniper scope didn't seem to work on the final boss.

[111987]

Belisarius09 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Belisarius09 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

111987 wrote...

Mass Effect 2 trounces Mass Effect 1 in terms of gameplay

I played both games, and I completely disagree.  ME2's combat (which I assume is what you meant by the vague term "gameplay" is less fun partly because it's more frantic, partly because the combat environments tend to be smaller, partly because the levels are designed such that you can only encounter each fight from one direction, partly because the aiming system breaks verisimilitude, partly because the disposable heatsinks break the lore, and partly because the encounters are now designed like they exist within a video game, rather than being something you could credibly find in a real world somewhere.

Like I said, you are definitley in the minority. So why change something the majority of people like to satisfy a very small amount of gamers? I won't get into all the details (because I'm too lazy), but ME1's combat was really unsatisfying. The main strategy for any encounter is just run into the middle of the room, hold down the trigger button, and spam your infinite assault rifle at enemies. Even on Insanity, with the right armor upgrades you will never die. And since the cover system was so bad in ME1, that's really one of the few ways you can play ME1.

just because you are in the majority doesn't mean your opinions are right and ours are wrong. 

as for your "main strategy" I personally never did that, and I've never heard that as the "main strategy" for me1 anywhere. 

Of course it doesn't make my opinion right, but the needs/wants of the many outweigh the needs/wants of the few.

ok fair enough but that wasn't the issue. thermal clips are being kept for me3, thats not debatable, its already been decided, and thats not what we were debating.  several people brought up quite a few strong, valid points showing ways in which they thought the overheat system was better than the thermal clips. your response to their opinion was that they were wrong simply because they were in the minority, and that does not make a good arguement on your part.  If you're going to bother debating with someone the least you can do is dignify them with an acceptable response citing examples to support your claim.

I apologize if i offended you. But if Bioware tested the overheat system with ME2-style combat, as well as a hybrid system, and decided they liked thermal clips best, it suggests that the thermal clip system was the best way to proceed. I mean, it's not like they would choose the second-best, or worst alternative right?

[Ahglock]

Wulfram wrote...

Running into the middle of the room and spamming your assault rifle wasn't possible because of the weapon system, but because of Immunity. Which was totally broken, no question.

The biggest game play change in ME2 was the change in the durability of the player.  Given how hard it is for a decent player to run out of ammo, I doubt ammo effected their game play in the slightest outside some low level psychological issues with concern of not haivng enough ammo the first time you played through the game.  The damage you take and the cover system are what really changed the game play IMO.  Unlimited ammo or clips my game would have played the same in ME2.

[Ahglock]

111987 wrote...

I apologize if i offended you. But if Bioware tested the overheat system with ME2-style combat, as well as a hybrid system, and decided they liked thermal clips best, it suggests that the thermal clip system was the best way to proceed. I mean, it's not like they would choose the second-best, or worst alternative right?

I am sure Bethesda tested the massive fail that was level sclaing in oblivion over the muted level scaling system that already existed in Morrowind, and yet they went with the second best or worst alternative.  Companies, desginers, people make bad decisions all the time.  You might prefer this decision and maybe the majority would if they could actually seperate the game play mechanics, but blind faith in a company is not really warranted.  

[111987]

Ahglock wrote...

111987 wrote...

I apologize if i offended you. But if Bioware tested the overheat system with ME2-style combat, as well as a hybrid system, and decided they liked thermal clips best, it suggests that the thermal clip system was the best way to proceed. I mean, it's not like they would choose the second-best, or worst alternative right?

I am sure Bethesda tested the massive fail that was level sclaing in oblivion over the muted level scaling system that already existed in Morrowind, and yet they went with the second best or worst alternative.  Companies, desginers, people make bad decisions all the time.  You might prefer this decision and maybe the majority would if they could actually seperate the game play mechanics, but blind faith in a company is not really warranted.  

Game-designers do not deliberately choose worst combat mechanics when better mechanics are just as easily implemented. That's not blind faith; that's common sense. Yes, game designers make mistakes, but in this case, since the majority of people loved the combat overhaul and thermal clip system, they didn't.

I don't know anything about Morrowind so I can't comment on that.

[Ahglock]

111987 wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

111987 wrote...

I apologize if i offended you. But if Bioware tested the overheat system with ME2-style combat, as well as a hybrid system, and decided they liked thermal clips best, it suggests that the thermal clip system was the best way to proceed. I mean, it's not like they would choose the second-best, or worst alternative right?

I am sure Bethesda tested the massive fail that was level sclaing in oblivion over the muted level scaling system that already existed in Morrowind, and yet they went with the second best or worst alternative.  Companies, desginers, people make bad decisions all the time.  You might prefer this decision and maybe the majority would if they could actually seperate the game play mechanics, but blind faith in a company is not really warranted.  

Game-designers do not deliberately choose worst combat mechanics when better mechanics are just as easily implemented. That's not blind faith; that's common sense. Yes, game designers make mistakes, but in this case, since the majority of people loved the combat overhaul and thermal clip system, they didn't.

I don't know anything about Morrowind so I can't comment on that.

I am not saying they intentionally made a bad choice, just that they could have made a bad choice.  And as for the majority, I don't know if I buy that.  There are a wide range of changes to the combat system that effected a persons gameplay, I really don't  think most people accurately sepertate the mechanics. Part of the reason I find it hard to beleive is that the ammo system has virtually no impact on players who are somewhat competent.  You are never going to run out of ammo, and the reason you stopped shooting is because your shields popped and you would have stopped shooting in the overheat system for the same reason.  So the ammo mechanic chances are had no impact at all on your game play, so it is kind of hard to say this one is actually a better system.  It is the more familiar system and I think that is probably the biggest decider in why it was chosen/testers liked it. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

111987 wrote...


Game-designers do not deliberately choose worst combat mechanics when better mechanics are just as easily implemented.

Not deliberately, no, but they might implement a suboptimal solution because they misidentified the standards by which the mechanic should be judged.

Yes, game designers make mistakes, but in this case, since the majority of people loved the combat overhaul and thermal clip system, they didn't.

Holy non sequiter, Batman.

That people like the system doesn't mean it couldn't be better, and thus liked by even more people.

[Aradace]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Holy non sequiter, Batman.

Holy comedic relief batman!! Sylvius used humor!! 
*sniff sniff* Im so proud of you Sylvius.  I'd give you a hug but, that'd be completely inappropriate lol