351 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

The funny thing is that the weapons in Mass Effect actually have "magazines" even if you don't count the t-clips. It's the metal blocks the computers inside the guns are using to make bullets out of.

I think those Alliance marines on a planet that defended themselves against rachni said that they were running low on ammo.

[Admoniter]

jreezy wrote...

Admoniter wrote...

I've accepted at this point that we are stuck with TCs. What I cannot accept however, is how they function exactly like a magazine... filled with bullets. there is gameplay/story segregation going on here and there doesn't need to be. Beyond that I find every weapon using TCs just silly especially after only two years.

Where exactly?

Ammo carries over. I should not be able to reload with two half empty TCs and wind up with a full mag of ammo. ME 3 should use the Doom ammo system where reloading causes you to completely eject the magazine no matter how much capacity is left. That way you are always loading in a TC with full capacity rather than the BS where you can have 1/4 of a mag in your gun, and 1/2 of a mag in your reserve and when you reload you get a 3/4 full full mag. Actually perhaps that isn't gameplay/story segregation more gameplay/logic segregation.

[Jorina Leto]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The guns in the universe are still very much affected by cooldown and overheating.

And the gameplay must reflect this. If it does not it is bad game desing.

Someone With Mass wrote...
Some people just seem to refuse to accept that the guns the player is using works differently because BioWare thought it would work better. And I think it does.

It does not work better. It just appeals to Call of Duty players, because they do not need to adapt to something they do not understand, when they try it the first time.

Someone With Mass wrote...
If they added a overheat system, the players could still do the old fire forever thing even if they're on their last clip by simply waiting until it cools down and frees up more rounds.

Where is the problem with this?

Someone With Mass wrote...
Not to mention that it's easier to balance weapons with the current system so none of the guns becomes obsolete just because a different gun can dish out more damage regardless of ammo capacity. Snipers could also just sit behind their cover all day and snipe everyone and just wait until another powerful round is ready again.

It's a singleplayer RPG. There is no need for multiplayer balance.
And while we're talking about balance and snipers... ME2's weapons are not balanced. Enemys do not have sniper rifles, because if they had them the game would be unwinnable.

[dgcatanisiri]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Moreover, why do you assume we need an "I win" button?  Maybe we just want an "I win" button.  I generally find combat to be the least fun part of RPG gameplay.  I would much rather spend time in dialogue or exploration or even inventory management.  Combat is usually more of a chore than it is fun.  So regardless of whether I need an "I win" button, sometimes I'd really just prefer one.

That's my feeling as well. I didn't pick up Mass Effect for 'awesomely realistic combat!' I picked it up because the story appealed to me. I am not playing for the combat. In point of fact, I honestly felt that the combat in ME2 was the most boring and least interesting of it, just because it really started feeling repetitive pretty much by Horizon if not sooner. Shooting things was all I was doing in just about every mission, and, yes, in most cases the story made a justification for it, but the lack of challenges of any other kind made it dull and repitive because I was doing nothing else.

I'm sorry, but I'm confused here.

What does the story or whatever else you two mention have got to do with thermal clips?

There are people calling the overheat option with mods like Frictionless Materials an automatic 'I win' button. Sylvius and I are countering that we're not playing the game for the combat and more for the story and interactions, which means that while we're not saying 'remove all combat,' we would like to have combat that isn't necessarily skippable but the kind that we can get through quickly and return to what we're interested in.

[111987]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Moreover, why do you assume we need an "I win" button?  Maybe we just want an "I win" button.  I generally find combat to be the least fun part of RPG gameplay.  I would much rather spend time in dialogue or exploration or even inventory management.  Combat is usually more of a chore than it is fun.  So regardless of whether I need an "I win" button, sometimes I'd really just prefer one.

That's my feeling as well. I didn't pick up Mass Effect for 'awesomely realistic combat!' I picked it up because the story appealed to me. I am not playing for the combat. In point of fact, I honestly felt that the combat in ME2 was the most boring and least interesting of it, just because it really started feeling repetitive pretty much by Horizon if not sooner. Shooting things was all I was doing in just about every mission, and, yes, in most cases the story made a justification for it, but the lack of challenges of any other kind made it dull and repitive because I was doing nothing else.

I'm sorry, but I'm confused here.

What does the story or whatever else you two mention have got to do with thermal clips?

There are people calling the overheat option with mods like Frictionless Materials an automatic 'I win' button. Sylvius and I are countering that we're not playing the game for the combat and more for the story and interactions, which means that while we're not saying 'remove all combat,' we would like to have combat that isn't necessarily skippable but the kind that we can get through quickly and return to what we're interested in.

Honestly, you're playing the wrong game then. If you want to go through the combat quickly, the fastest way to do it is to play on Casual as a Vanguard and just charge to the furthest enemy possible. Trust me, you can complete most missions in like 10 minutes with this method.

[Someone With Mass]

Jorina Leto wrote...
It's a singleplayer RPG. There is no need for multiplayer balance.
And while we're talking about balance and snipers... ME2's weapons are not balanced. Enemys do not have sniper rifles, because if they had them the game would be unwinnable.

Yes, I'm ignoring the rest, because this one stood out to me.

Just because it's not a multiplayer doesn't mean it shouldn't be balanced. You could make everything one-shot-kill. Guess what the gameplay would be. BORING.

If they don't balance the weapons in ME3, then there's no reason for the player to use anything but the best weapon, which makes the other weapons redundant, i.e. a waste of development time.

ME2's weapons were also far more balanced than ME1's, simply because they're playing more on the players preferance than statistics.

[Mr.Pink]

Everyone says they did spray and prey in ME1, but I always hit my target, so my gun rarely overheated, making it very easy. Me2 could be difficult at times for the ammo system, but hard and challenging is much better than easy and pointless.
BTW, ME1 is still good.

Modifié par Mr.Pink, 15 septembre 2011 - 08:08 .

[CBKeffer]

jreezy wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...
It does not work better. It just appeals to Call of Duty players, because they do not need to adapt to something they do not understand, when they try it the first time.

And this is where your response begins to falter.

Exactly. Sorry, but I had no problems adapting to the system used in ME1, but in a pitched firefight, a system that has the possibility of keeping you out of the fight for an extended period untill your weapon cools down vs a system where you can immediately cool your weapon by ejecting the saturated heat sink, the one that gets you back in the fight sooner is the one that soldiers will favor every time. It's why we no longer use muzzle loaders, revolvers, or bolt action rifles (outside of limited use by some snipers) and have switched to removable box magazines rather than the top loading clip style that was used in WWII. It called progress, and the thermal clip system is a logical progression of the heat based system used in ME1. Now, could it's implimentation stand some work lore wise (ie, some sort of hybrid system where the gun would cool off when it is not used for a while)? Sure, but given the choice between the two systems, I'll take thermal clips every time.

[Belisarius09]

hand cannon ran out of ammo way too fast in me2, even when you hit your targets it ran out of ammo plain and simple. i liked the overheating system from me1 better, but its not coming back, and I accept that. so meet us half way, and increase ammo carrying capacity.

[Sylvius the Mad]

didymos1120 wrote...

I like how he complains about how his abuse of a game mechanic that has nothing to do with the reality the characters inhabit isn't realistic enough.

It's not possible to abuse game mechanics.  The game mechanics are there to be used.  I use them.

[Sgt Stryker]

Someone With Mass wrote...

We as the players simply have a modified version of that system, because the testers didn't like the heat based ammo system.

The in-universe people have almost the same system as before. Only difference is that they have the ability to eject the clips when their guns overheat to get back into the fight quicker. Pretty much the reason why the geth made them.

By the way, they're on the finishing touches of ME3 so they won't remove thermal clips.

This needs to be quoted again so more people read it.

We (the players) get a simplified version of how weapons would "actually" work in the MEverse. The reason why thermal clips do not regenerate over time is that this would lead to an easy way out for players - don't bother hitting reload, just wait until your heat sink regenerates. I'm sure that in-universe however, thermal clips (which are little more than disposable heat sinks) still obey the laws of thermodynamics and eventually cool off. 

We have to remember that what we see in gameplay does not always reflect the actual in-universe behavior of something. For example, we cannot alter the size or speed of the projectiles our weapons fire, inter-system space travel only takes a few seconds, biotics don't become exhausted from using their powers, and thermal clips do not cool down over time. All simplifications done for the sake of gameplay.

EDIT: Something else to consider: ME2 had no weapon mods or armor mods. Does this mean that in the span of two years, the entire weapon and armor modification industry ceased to exist completely? Of course not, that would be absurd. Just because something is not included in gameplay, does not mean that it does not exist. (especially if it existed in the previous installment of the series!)

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 15 septembre 2011 - 08:33 .

[Someone With Mass]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

EDIT: Something else to consider: ME2 had no weapon mods or armor mods. Does this mean that in the span of two years, the entire weapon and armor modification industry ceased to exist completely? Of course not, that would be absurd. Just because something is not included in gameplay, does not mean that it does not exist. (especially if it existed in the previous installment of the series!)

More so when they return in the sequel.

[Jorina Leto]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Just because it's not a multiplayer doesn't mean it shouldn't be balanced.

There is no PvP. So... why

Someone With Mass wrote...
You
could make everything one-shot-kill. Guess what the gameplay would be.
BORING.

Straw argument. I'm not asking for one-hit-kills for
everything.

Someone With Mass wrote...
If they don't balance the weapons in ME3, then there's no reason for the player to use anything but the best weapon, which makes the other weapons redundant, i.e. a waste of development time.

But first you have to get the best weapon. And earnig the best weapon is can be very rewarding. Oh, wait super powerful weapon DLC for sale.

Someone With Mass wrote...
ME2's weapons were also far more balanced than ME1's, simply because they're playing more on the players preferance than statistics.

Oh, wait super powerful weapon DLC for sale.

Modifié par Jorina Leto, 15 septembre 2011 - 10:12 .

[Jorina Leto]

CBKeffer wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...
It does not work better. It just appeals to Call of Duty players, because they do not need to adapt to something they do not understand, when they try it the first time.

And this is where your response begins to falter.

Exactly. Sorry, but I had no problems adapting to the system used in ME1, but in a pitched firefight, a system that has the possibility of keeping you out of the fight for an extended period untill your weapon cools down vs a system where you can immediately cool your weapon by ejecting the saturated heat sink, the one that gets you back in the fight sooner is the one that soldiers will favor every time. It's why we no longer use muzzle loaders, revolvers, or bolt action rifles (outside of limited use by some snipers) and have switched to removable box magazines rather than the top loading clip style that was used in WWII. It called progress, and the thermal clip system is a logical progression of the heat based system used in ME1. Now, could it's implimentation stand some work lore wise (ie, some sort of hybrid system where the gun would cool off when it is not used for a while)? Sure, but given the choice between the two systems, I'll take thermal clips every time.

LOL!

Wait! I'm supposed to take this post seriously? LOL!

We have a system that has the possibility of keeping you out of the fight forever and a system that has the possibility of keeping you out of the fight for a short time. You think, this is an improvement?

LOL!

You remember the fact, that Shepard carries a limited number af clips?

[Someone With Mass]

Jorina Leto wrote...
Oh, wait super powerful weapon DLC for sale.

ME1: Oh, wait. HMWA Master assault rifle. Every other assault rifle is useless now.

Yeah...

[Someone With Mass]

Jorina Leto wrote...

LOL!

Wait! I'm supposed to take this post seriously? LOL!

We have a system that has the possibility of keeping you out of the fight forever and a system that has the possibility of keeping you out of the fight for a short time. You think, this is an improvement?

LOL!

You remember the fact, that Shepard carries a limited number af clips?

Yeah, but if you're using them with some efficiency, along with your powers (there was really no need to use any power in ME1 beyond toying with the enemies) the battle will be over before you run out completely.

FAIL.

[Epic777]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...
Oh, wait super powerful weapon DLC for sale.

ME1: Oh, wait. HMWA Master assault rifle. Every other assault rifle is useless now.

Yeah...

Just assault rifles? Sprectre weapons were better than any other weapons, it was not even close.

[longlun]

Bonus Power: Dominate.

Problem solved.

[Someone With Mass]

Epic777 wrote...

Just assault rifles? Sprectre weapons were better than any other weapons, it was not even close.

Same thing with the armor. Found Colossus armor? Great! *Converts all the other armor pieces to omni-gel, breaking the economy system even more*

[Icinix]

I hate thermal clips. I still don't watch my ammo. I just spend more time looking for sparkly red things on the ground and collect them like coins in Mario.

After getting a few unmodded saves from Me2 - I modded ME1 style "ammo" back into the game - enjoyed it immensely more ever since.

Since ME3 will not have carry over saves - It will be modded to correct this before I finish the intro / tutorial level.So When Anderson says "We're running low on thermal clips" I can laugh at his moronic comment knowing my gun is true to ME1 lore rather than lore for the sake of a gameplay device which some people love.

[Someone With Mass]

Icinix wrote...
Since ME3 will not have carry over saves - It will be modded to correct this before I finish the intro / tutorial level.So When Anderson says "We're running low on thermal clips" I can laugh at his moronic comment knowing my gun is true to ME1 lore rather than lore for the sake of a gameplay device which some people love.

You know, if your guns were truly true to the lore, they could still run out of ammo. Because your guns can't automatically whip up ammo for you.

[longlun]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

Just assault rifles? Sprectre weapons were better than any other weapons, it was not even close.

Same thing with the armor. Found Colossus armor? Great! *Converts all the other armor pieces to omni-gel, breaking the economy system even more*

HMWA Master assault rifle + 1 lvl 10 Frictionless Materials = infinte ammo = hold trigger and move crosshairs.

[Jorina Leto]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

We as the players simply have a modified version of that system, because the testers didn't like the heat based ammo system.

The in-universe people have almost the same system as before. Only difference is that they have the ability to eject the clips when their guns overheat to get back into the fight quicker. Pretty much the reason why the geth made them.

By the way, they're on the finishing touches of ME3 so they won't remove thermal clips.

This needs to be quoted again so more people read it.

We (the players) get a simplified version of how weapons would "actually" work in the MEverse. The reason why thermal clips do not regenerate over time is that this would lead to an easy way out for players - don't bother hitting reload, just wait until your heat sink regenerates. I'm sure that in-universe however, thermal clips (which are little more than disposable heat sinks) still obey the laws of thermodynamics and eventually cool off.

I am aware of Gameplay and Story Segregation. I just do not like it.

Sgt Stryker wrote...
We have to remember that what we see in gameplay does not always reflect the actual in-universe behavior of something. For example, we cannot alter the size or speed of the projectiles our weapons fire,

But I'd like it.

Sgt Stryker wrote...
inter-system space travel only takes a few seconds,

Ah, the model ship. Does anyone like it? Yeah the ME1 map was better.

Sgt Stryker wrote...
biotics don't become exhausted from using their powers

Well the game already features stamina for the sprints. Connect them and tweak the stamina system and we have it.

Sgt Stryker wrote...
and thermal clips do not cool down over time.

Read what has already been written.
The only lore-abiding system would feature

• Overheat and cooldown
• Thermal clips wich can be used when the gun is overheated
• The metal block with supposedly 4000 shots

Sgt Stryker wrote...
All simplifications done for the sake of gameplay.

Complexity enhances the gameplay of an RPG.

Sgt Stryker wrote...
EDIT: Something else to consider: ME2 had no weapon mods or armor mods. Does this mean that in the span of two years, the entire weapon and armor modification industry ceased to exist completely? Of course not, that would be absurd. Just because something is not included in gameplay, does not mean that it does not exist. (especially if it existed in the previous installment of the series!)

Removing the mods (or making them powers) was another bad design decision.

Modifié par Jorina Leto, 15 septembre 2011 - 10:07 .