351 réponses à ce sujet

[Bogsnot1]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IIRC; thermal clips are universal within a weapon class. All sniper rifles use the same type of thermal clip. All pistols use hte same kind of thermal clip. But snipers and pistols dont' use the same type.

Makes sense after all - weapons are of different size and requirements - a pistol is smaller, and has smaller thermal clips. Sniper rifles require a huge amoung of cooling at once. Etc....

And yet, when you pick up a thermal clip from the ground, which kind of weapon is it for?

The correct answer is "all of them".

And when you buy arrows in any fantasy based RPG, which type of bow is it for?
  
Yes, bows do require different arrows. An arrow designed for a Yew Longbow will be far different to one that you loose from a Horsemans Recurve.

This is just another example of gameplay > lore. If they werent universal in game, then you would have hordes of Infiltrators/Vanguards complaining of lack of TC's due to enemies preferring AR or pistol.

[RyuujinZERO]

I dunno why they don't implement a hybrid system. Not only would it be more practical, but it'd also be more CANONICAL.

We know the clips cool down, and in ME1 a gun's built in heat sink could cool off in seconds. My suggestion would be that they make heat more of an issue than in ME1 (longer cooldown period), but still HAVE a cooldown system, with the option to eject the thermal clip for a new one and keep shooting in more intense battles.

Then it becomes a tactical tradeoff JUST LIKE THE CODEX SAYS - by using up the spare thermal clips you can sustain higher rate of fire and dish out more punishment, but those are a finite number.

And when you run out of clips, your gun doesn't MAGICALLY STOP WORKING (after ME1, I can only say "derrrrp" to that logic), but it's rate of fire is drastically reduced since you can't fire in sustained volleys

[Il Divo]

Gatt9 wrote...


Agreed.  But it's really no surprise,  since EA's handlers let the Syndicate team make the statement that now RTS isn't a viable genre either,  so at EA there's one game and one game only.  Shooters.  Nothing else is worth making.

Doomsday clock...it is ticking for the game industry...you'd think that out of that many people they'd figure out releasing the same game over and over will lead to no one buying games anymore...

Then it's a good thing Bioware decided to make Mass Effect before EA got involved, isn't it? I guess we know whom to blame for making a shooter hybrid...

[Fixers0]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Ah, if that's the case... then no. It's the same as in ME2. Each weapon has its own pool. :happy:

That's actually very odd considering the codex mentions that thermal clips are universially made, i personally would like the idea of having different catagories of ammo pools, for example Alliance weapons all use ammunition from the Alliance Thermal clip pool, while geth weapons draw from the geth thermal clip pool.

[Epic777]

Fixers0 wrote...

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Ah, if that's the case... then no. It's the same as in ME2. Each weapon has its own pool. :happy:

That's actually very odd considering the codex mentions that thermal clips are universially made, i personally would like the idea of having different catagories of ammo pools, for example Alliance weapons all use ammunition from the Alliance Thermal clip pool, while geth weapons draw from the geth thermal clip pool.

Its one of those things in ME, like biotic shepard asking about bAat.

[111987]

Fixers0 wrote...

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Ah, if that's the case... then no. It's the same as in ME2. Each weapon has its own pool. :happy:

That's actually very odd considering the codex mentions that thermal clips are universially made, i personally would like the idea of having different catagories of ammo pools, for example Alliance weapons all use ammunition from the Alliance Thermal clip pool, while geth weapons draw from the geth thermal clip pool.

Wow, seriously guys, it's a way to make game play smoother. It saves people the trouble of scrounging the battlefield for a thermal clip for a specfic gun. It makes the game faster. People need to learn how to enjoy games and not obsess over when the lore isn't respected to enhance the game play.

And no, making seperate ammo for every type of gun would not enhance the game play.

[Omega-202]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

I dunno why they don't implement a hybrid system. Not only would it be more practical, but it'd also be more CANONICAL.

We know the clips cool down, and in ME1 a gun's built in heat sink could cool off in seconds. My suggestion would be that they make heat more of an issue than in ME1 (longer cooldown period), but still HAVE a cooldown system, with the option to eject the thermal clip for a new one and keep shooting in more intense battles.

Then it becomes a tactical tradeoff JUST LIKE THE CODEX SAYS - by using up the spare thermal clips you can sustain higher rate of fire and dish out more punishment, but those are a finite number.

And when you run out of clips, your gun doesn't MAGICALLY STOP WORKING (after ME1, I can only say "derrrrp" to that logic), but it's rate of fire is drastically reduced since you can't fire in sustained volleys

Christina Norman said that they specifically tested this.  They HAD made a hybrid system during the ME2 testing phase and it tested poorly and ultimately led to slowed down combat.  

I think she was absolutely correct.  In a hybrid system, nobody's going to bother ejecting precious thermal clips just like how most players don't bother to use Unity despite there being more Medi-Gel than you'd ever need and don't use Heavy Weapons as often as they can despite there being a lot of ammo lying around.  Why bother using an expendable resource when you don't need to?

Its the "rainy day" logical conundrum.  There was even a dev post in regards to this issue this past spring when it came to proper use of Unity to heal yourself mid combat (after researching the upgrades).  They're well aware that most people don't bother to use it and would rather just wait for the shield recharge hiding behind cover.   I can't remember which developer it was that was commenting in that thread, but they said that it was an issue they were going to look into for ME3 in order to encourage more use of Medi-gel.  

The situation would be exactly the same with a hybrid ammo system.  People would rather just wait for the cooldown even if they have plenty of extra clips.  Why use an expendable when the resource comes back by itself?  So in the end, most people would just spend more time hiding behind cover.  That's exactly what they found in testing.  

[Dragoonlordz]

In the end if the guns have to use specific gun ammo type that is too limited then I can easily see myself dying very often as I run out a lot of the time. Mainly because I only use pistol and sniper rifle 99% of time. Yet I like some risk so has to have a certain amount of limitation ammo found and there certainly for myself needs to be a limit on how much available. I think the balance they will strike will be about right but no way on earth do I support unlimited ammo by removal of clips. Clips add to the difficulty and is a good thing just as long is not taken to the extreme where so few your punching your way through most of game.

For those who do run out of ammo, aim better and less spray and pray involved aswell as keep best weapons for toughest fights and not waste it on cannon fodder.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 septembre 2011 - 03:47 .

[Ramus Quaritch]

I think thermal clips should be worth more when you pick them up (at least on Insanity difficulty). On insanity difficulty I found that I was always running out of ammo because the enemies had such high health and the thermal clips gave me almost nothing comparatively. Unless I had biotics, I was screwed if I ran out of ammo.

[MikkroBitti]

I've never had problem with thermal clips. I always have them enough!

[Fixers0]

111987 wrote...


Wow, seriously guys, it's a way to make game play smoother. It saves people the trouble of scrounging the battlefield for a thermal clip for a specfic gun. It makes the game faster. People need to learn how to enjoy games and not obsess over when the lore isn't respected to enhance the game play.

I don't see what's your problem here, you're allready looking around every corner of the battlefield thanks to thermal 'ammo', having different methods of heat disperation, would make the gameplay more tactical and realsitic,

But since you're one of those people who always thinks gameplay should go as fast and smooth as possible, as if slowing down and forcing the player to think would be way to much to handle even if bioware proved otherwise before.

111987 wrote...
And no, making seperate ammo for every type of gun would not enhance the game play.

Why not?

Modifié par Fixers0, 16 septembre 2011 - 04:14 .

[Belisarius09]

111987 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

111987 wrote...

Mass Effect 2 trounces Mass Effect 1 in terms of gameplay

I played both games, and I completely disagree.  ME2's combat (which I assume is what you meant by the vague term "gameplay" is less fun partly because it's more frantic, partly because the combat environments tend to be smaller, partly because the levels are designed such that you can only encounter each fight from one direction, partly because the aiming system breaks verisimilitude, partly because the disposable heatsinks break the lore, and partly because the encounters are now designed like they exist within a video game, rather than being something you could credibly find in a real world somewhere.

Like I said, you are definitley in the minority. So why change something the majority of people like to satisfy a very small amount of gamers? I won't get into all the details (because I'm too lazy), but ME1's combat was really unsatisfying. The main strategy for any encounter is just run into the middle of the room, hold down the trigger button, and spam your infinite assault rifle at enemies. Even on Insanity, with the right armor upgrades you will never die. And since the cover system was so bad in ME1, that's really one of the few ways you can play ME1.

just because you are in the majority doesn't mean your opinions are right and ours are wrong. 

as for your "main strategy" I personally never did that, and I've never heard that as the "main strategy" for me1 anywhere. 

[Talogrungi]

Sutle_Misou wrote...

i'm sure you've been getting a lot of these, but....
i hate, as i'm sure most people do,  limited ammo clips. it makes it a lot harder playing Insanity Level when you run out, and there NO spare clips laying around. can we get the over-heating/cooldown feature, and use augments to fix the weapon ourselfs, like in the first game?

Haven't read the whole thread, but .. highlighted for emphasis.

Insanity is supposed to be difficult. Limited ammo makes you care about missing; this is a good thing.

[Xerxes52]

The PLC wrote...

I like clips but they really need to let you carry more ammo.

Indeed. I'd say ten magazines per weapon would be reasonable (i.e. 16 rounds in a Mattock mag = 160 reserve, 40 rounds in an Avenger mag = 400 reserve, etc). Maybe a twenty magazine reserve for single shot weapons (some shotguns, Mantis, Widow, etc).

As for refilling ammo from drops, I'd say no more than 2-3 should be necessary to completely refill your ammo pool.

[Srsface]

I've never had a real issue with ammo, even on Infiltrator Insanity. I occasionally ran out of Sniper ammo, sure, but if I were unable to, would I use anything else? Mix in pistols, SMGs, Incinerates, and your 0 rounds goes a long way.

If you like the ME1 system, I don't blame you. They're very different systems, but to claim Thermal clips ruin the gameplay, maybe you just need to learn how to aim.

[TheMakoMaster]

i don't see how people can run out of ammo. just about every other bad guy drops a clip and in some spots the clips respawn quickly. i'd like to see the clips look less like glorified red glow sticks, however.

[Wulfram]

MikkroBitti wrote...

I've never had problem with thermal clips. I always have them enough!

In which case they're a useless mechanic and should be scrapped.

[Elvis_Mazur]

Oh yeah, this again.

[NeroSparda]

Omega-202 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

That's not the reason clips were implemented.  One of the gameplay designers did so as an experiment during development.  The Lead Designer, Preston Watamaniuk, then did a run using that system and decided it was a big improvement, at which point he took it to Casey Hudson, who tried it out for himself and agreed. 

They also said that they tried the "hybrid" system where chambered clips would cool over time and said that it was also inferior to the straight clips system we have now.  

Weapon cooldown encourages players to spend more time in one cover spot waiting for the cooldown and not moving around the battlefield looking for more ammo.  It should be obvious why sitting in cover is less fun than actively moving.  

They could have done the same with having the enemy flank us or use grenades, etc to force our squad out of cover. Tch. Not that care anyways, I am fine with both features, not that I think what to do. It is all second nature on what to do.

[111987]

Belisarius09 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

111987 wrote...

Mass Effect 2 trounces Mass Effect 1 in terms of gameplay

I played both games, and I completely disagree.  ME2's combat (which I assume is what you meant by the vague term "gameplay" is less fun partly because it's more frantic, partly because the combat environments tend to be smaller, partly because the levels are designed such that you can only encounter each fight from one direction, partly because the aiming system breaks verisimilitude, partly because the disposable heatsinks break the lore, and partly because the encounters are now designed like they exist within a video game, rather than being something you could credibly find in a real world somewhere.

Like I said, you are definitley in the minority. So why change something the majority of people like to satisfy a very small amount of gamers? I won't get into all the details (because I'm too lazy), but ME1's combat was really unsatisfying. The main strategy for any encounter is just run into the middle of the room, hold down the trigger button, and spam your infinite assault rifle at enemies. Even on Insanity, with the right armor upgrades you will never die. And since the cover system was so bad in ME1, that's really one of the few ways you can play ME1.

just because you are in the majority doesn't mean your opinions are right and ours are wrong. 

as for your "main strategy" I personally never did that, and I've never heard that as the "main strategy" for me1 anywhere. 

Of course it doesn't make my opinion right, but the needs/wants of the many outweigh the needs/wants of the few.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

And when you buy arrows in any fantasy based RPG, which type of bow is it for?
  
Yes, bows do require different arrows. An arrow designed for a Yew Longbow will be far different to one that you loose from a Horsemans Recurve.

But not in the game they don't.  If I buy 100 arrows, I can fire 100 shots with that longbow, and then I'm out of arrows.  Or I can fire 100 shots with the horsebow, and then I'm out of arrows.

But in ME2, I can fire 20 shots with a pistol, and 8 shots with a sniper rifle, and 12 shots with a shotgun, and 60 with an assault rifle.  Your analogy would only work if ME2 let me fire all 100 shots with the sniper rifle.

This is just another example of gameplay > lore. If they werent universal in game, then you would have hordes of Infiltrators/Vanguards complaining of lack of TC's due to enemies preferring AR or pistol.

There are other ways they could have solved this.  They could have a shared carrying capacity, so you can only carry so many TCs at a time, regardless of type, and then allow you to "buy" them at those weapon-swap stations (or from stores, I suppose).  So then, you could decide what sort of ammo you wanted to carry for a mission, and use that ammo on the appropriate weapons.

TCs, as implemented in ME2, don't just break the lore.  They break the lore for no reason.

[Sylvius the Mad]

111987 wrote...

I won't get into all the details (because I'm too lazy), but ME1's combat was really unsatisfying. The main strategy for any encounter is just run into the middle of the room, hold down the trigger button, and spam your infinite assault rifle at enemies.

Wait a second.  If that tactic (that's a tactic, not a strategy, by the way) wasn't fun, why did you do it?

[Someone With Mass]

You know what you can do in ME3 if you run out of ammo? Use the melee attacks.