137 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

Arppis wrote...

It won't be naval victory. It will be ground game, because Shepard is a ground trooper.

Both ME1 and ME2's finale occured in space.

Just because Shepard is a grunt doesn't mean that the final battle isn't going to be a naval battle.

Besides, Shepard isn't Army. He's a Marine. One of the duties of Marines would no doubt be boarding enemy vessels or protecting Alliance vessels from boarders if need be. That would probably be a rarity in combat, but like hand-to-hand combat it would be something that they'd train for. So they would have a space combat element to their duties.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 16 septembre 2011 - 05:28 .

[capn233]

Deterring space ships from ground is a lot more practical when you are talking about projectiles moving at .013c as opposed to a few Mach. Deterring doesn't also mean that you are guaranteed to hit the target if it is all over the place. It means having a likelihood of hitting the target if it is maneuvering into position to take a shot at you.  All in all I think the point is that ground based weapons could be utilized agains the Reapers, who are clearly landing on Earth, and potentially other planets.  The analogy to a naval force supporting and making a landing on an enemy beach-head was quite apt.

At any rate, to the original topic:
The possibility of successfully defeating Reapers in a naval engagement is approximately 3,720 to 1.

That is, unless we recalibrate the deflector to emit an inverse tacheon pulse, which should disable their kinetic barriers.

Modifié par capn233, 16 septembre 2011 - 05:55 .

[lovgreno]

Well, since Earth is the home of the majority of humanity it should be well defended by the navy right? But judging from what the Big Ben sniper told us the Earths defences was quickly defeated. So it probably takes a lot more than the human navy (if there is a lot left wich I doubt after the fall of Earth) to finaly defeat the reapers.

[Ygolnac]

military starship fleets are not big in ME universe for many reasons explained in dialogues and codex:
turians stopped to build many starships after genophagy was introduced becouse krogans were under control
asari and salarian have never had huge starship fleets
human is a very young space travel race, and had not the time to build many ships.
To maintain a balance any race can't build more capital ships than half the turian number or so (can't remeber exact proportion but it's in a codex).
There are many solar systems (much more than what we see in the games) and defending all the systems is not possible, this is why the majority of space is "terminus", where there's no law.

All these races fleets suffered many losses to destroy the sovereign, and in the 5 years that pass from sovereign destruction to reaper invasion the reaper invasion itself was considered to be false by alliance and thus fleets were not reinforced.

This is why a naval victory would be impossible: lesser number and WAY less powerfull than reapers fleets. ME universe is not a spaceship one.

I wonder what would happen if reapers try to invade the new eden galaxy in EVE...

[Sgt Stryker]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

They may have even fired those shots before heading towards the galaxy. Maybe the Batarians already have too. Maybe the Turians did, during the First Contact War, and we could still be waiting.

That's all very possible and a chilling thought. Such weaponry is terrifying because there is no real way to counter it. It's much the same as a relativistic weapon. We could all be doomed already and not even know it and probably never know it is about to happen. One day, the world just ends.

There are at least two limitations to such a weapon - the fact that the target planet itself is in motion (albeit a periodic motion) and the possibility of stellar drift (if you're firing from light years away). Of course, the same race that built the relays and basically mastered the Universe could precise enough instruments to perform such a feat.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 16 septembre 2011 - 06:19 .

[el master pr]

Ygolnac wrote...

military starship fleets are not big in ME universe for many reasons explained in dialogues and codex:
turians stopped to build many starships after genophagy was introduced becouse krogans were under control
asari and salarian have never had huge starship fleets
human is a very young space travel race, and had not the time to build many ships.
To maintain a balance any race can't build more capital ships than half the turian number or so (can't remeber exact proportion but it's in a codex).
There are many solar systems (much more than what we see in the games) and defending all the systems is not possible, this is why the majority of space is "terminus", where there's no law.

All these races fleets suffered many losses to destroy the sovereign, and in the 5 years that pass from sovereign destruction to reaper invasion the reaper invasion itself was considered to be false by alliance and thus fleets were not reinforced.

This is why a naval victory would be impossible: lesser number and WAY less powerfull than reapers fleets. ME universe is not a spaceship one.

I wonder what would happen if reapers try to invade the new eden galaxy in EVE...

5:3:1 is the proportion established by the Treaty of Farixen: for every 5 turian dreadnoughts the other Council species, asari, salarian and now human, can have 3 dreadnoughts, while every other species can have one.

On the topic now, I think a Naval battle may serve as some sort of distraction. I mean, on ME1 there was a huge naval battle on the Citadel but all that time Shepard was the one actually doing something on his way to the Citadel Master Control to stop Saren from letting the Reapers to come through the Citadel relay. Maybe in ME3 it will be the same, as in Shepard on foot going to place X to complete objective Y while the big ships take on the Reaper fleet.

[SuperSoldierRCP]

bio ware stated "The Protheans have a prominent role in ME3"... To be honest the Reaper have destroyed all life for Millions of years. One planet in a terminus system said it had a canyon from a Mass Effect shot fired 150million years ago. God only knows how long the reapers have been doing this meaning guns blazing full front attack WILL FAIL. I'm sure there will be a way to counter it. Im thinking the Protheans made a weapon that causes ALL relays to emit an EMP that knocks out the reapers shields making them open to ship based attacks(no shields mean that it would be possible to win). Depending how you helped the Legion, I have a feeling the Geth will play a very big role(Remember that the Geth want a future like everyone else and they oppose the belief of the Old Machines). Next idea(like the overlord DLC) would be a counter indoctrination. Its said that only Asari matriarchs or people of that stats and resist(for only a while) indoctrination. Using them and creating a "mind link" could allow them in the end learn the reapers and all its secrets and exploiting them. Last is get teams inside them and kill there cores making the reapers "dead".

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

A naval victory is the only possible victory. You don't defeat an armada of dreadnoughts with a ground army.

You can defeat them with ground-based air power, missile strikes, and artillery.

And since the Reapers come onto the ground, tanks and infantry are valid as well.

No you can't and they don't have to come down to the ground at all if they don't want to.

They could fire planet killing shots at you from many light years away.

I don't buy this. Those shots would have to be perfectly timed and go unaffected by any outside force because in order to do damage it cannot travel faster than the speed of light. One shot with all the calculations done perfectly could do damage in few years and no one would see it coming until too late.

I'm waiting for the "lasers" comment. .... light is made up of particles and a particle beam is affected by gravity wells which will alter course. The course could be slightly altered by a planetoid the size of Pluto, and if that was far enough away from the target the shot would miss entirely. The shot would have to be perfectly timed because Issac Newton is the deadliest SOB in the universe. It could ruin someone's day somewhere and at some time thousands of years later.

From orbit, they'd decimate a world. Not from many light years.

[pmac_tk421]

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Considering that both the Alliance and turian fleets were almost completely wiped out? Not really.

I think the numbers will be different this time

It's been more than 2 years since that battle. Both their navies have had time to recover. I think that a united galactic fleet will play a major role in the battle, but they won't be able to win with out finding a weakness and they should have Anti orbital cannons on the surface of the planet their fighting on.

[DCarter]

pmac_tk421 wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Considering that both the Alliance and turian fleets were almost completely wiped out? Not really.

I think the numbers will be different this time

It's been more than 2 years since that battle. Both their navies have had time to recover. I think that a united galactic fleet will play a major role in the battle, but they won't be able to win with out finding a weakness and they should have Anti orbital cannons on the surface of the planet their fighting on.

I think he's talking about in ME3, not the battle of the citadel. 

[pmac_tk421]

DCarter wrote...

pmac_tk421 wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Considering that both the Alliance and turian fleets were almost completely wiped out? Not really.

I think the numbers will be different this time

It's been more than 2 years since that battle. Both their navies have had time to recover. I think that a united galactic fleet will play a major role in the battle, but they won't be able to win with out finding a weakness and they should have Anti orbital cannons on the surface of the planet their fighting on.

I think he's talking about in ME3, not the battle of the citadel. 

 Still, there were 103 dreadnaughts in exsistance when the reapers arrived, and while some may have been destroyed in the initial attack, there are still alot. Imagine 8 were destroyed when they arrived, thats still 95. The destiny assension survived an attack from the entire heretic fleet, while they needed help, the held on for a while. Imagine 95 destiny assentions plus the fleets of every major race. They won't win the battle alone, but they will play a key part.

[111987]

pmac_tk421 wrote...

DCarter wrote...

pmac_tk421 wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Considering that both the Alliance and turian fleets were almost completely wiped out? Not really.

I think the numbers will be different this time

It's been more than 2 years since that battle. Both their navies have had time to recover. I think that a united galactic fleet will play a major role in the battle, but they won't be able to win with out finding a weakness and they should have Anti orbital cannons on the surface of the planet their fighting on.

I think he's talking about in ME3, not the battle of the citadel. 

 Still, there were 103 dreadnaughts in exsistance when the reapers arrived, and while some may have been destroyed in the initial attack, there are still alot. Imagine 8 were destroyed when they arrived, thats still 95. The destiny assension survived an attack from the entire heretic fleet, while they needed help, the held on for a while. Imagine 95 destiny assentions plus the fleets of every major race. They won't win the battle alone, but they will play a key part.

The Destiny Ascension is twice the size and power of any other dreadnaught in existence.

Not to mention a Reaper's main gun can one-shot a dreadnaught...

[Belisarius09]

DCarter wrote...

pmac_tk421 wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Considering that both the Alliance and turian fleets were almost completely wiped out? Not really.

I think the numbers will be different this time

It's been more than 2 years since that battle. Both their navies have had time to recover. I think that a united galactic fleet will play a major role in the battle, but they won't be able to win with out finding a weakness and they should have Anti orbital cannons on the surface of the planet their fighting on.

I think he's talking about in ME3, not the battle of the citadel. 

when was the turian fleet wiped out? at the battle of the citadel they lost maybe a dozen cruisers? the turians are the main military branch of council space, they had way more ships than that, and also they've had ample time to recover from their losses at the battle of the citadel.  I think humanity took more losses than the turians did. 

turians have 37 dreadnoughts, asari 21 and salarians 16.  shepard can still muster a sizeable force.

[DCarter]

Belisarius09 wrote...

DCarter wrote...

pmac_tk421 wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Considering that both the Alliance and turian fleets were almost completely wiped out? Not really.

I think the numbers will be different this time

It's been more than 2 years since that battle. Both their navies have had time to recover. I think that a united galactic fleet will play a major role in the battle, but they won't be able to win with out finding a weakness and they should have Anti orbital cannons on the surface of the planet their fighting on.

I think he's talking about in ME3, not the battle of the citadel. 

when was the turian fleet wiped out? at the battle of the citadel they lost maybe a dozen cruisers? the turians are the main military branch of council space, they had way more ships than that, and also they've had ample time to recover from their losses at the battle of the citadel.  I think humanity took more losses than the turians did. 

turians have 37 dreadnoughts, asari 21 and salarians 16.  shepard can still muster a sizeable force.

According to shepard the humans lost 8 cruisers and the turians lost 20 and i was saying that the turians fleet was lost during the events in ME3 not during the battle of the citadel. I'm not sure of the source but people have been syaing that palaven is under attack as well as earth.

[DCarter]

pmac_tk421 wrote...

DCarter wrote...

pmac_tk421 wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Considering that both the Alliance and turian fleets were almost completely wiped out? Not really.

I think the numbers will be different this time

It's been more than 2 years since that battle. Both their navies have had time to recover. I think that a united galactic fleet will play a major role in the battle, but they won't be able to win with out finding a weakness and they should have Anti orbital cannons on the surface of the planet their fighting on.

I think he's talking about in ME3, not the battle of the citadel. 

 Still, there were 103 dreadnaughts in exsistance when the reapers arrived, and while some may have been destroyed in the initial attack, there are still alot. Imagine 8 were destroyed when they arrived, thats still 95. The destiny assension survived an attack from the entire heretic fleet, while they needed help, the held on for a while. Imagine 95 destiny assentions plus the fleets of every major race. They won't win the battle alone, but they will play a key part.

Sounds impressive until you pit that fleet up against a few thousand reapers. 

[capn233]

It depends on how you play it, but the Turians lost 20 cruisers (crew of 300) and the Alliance 8, at least if you save the Council.

But yes, they did not have all the ships there, they were spread out around various relays to prevent the Geth from jumping in from the Terminus Systems. The were prevented from reinforcing when Sovereign locked out the relays. Don't know why they didn't show up after Shepard unlocks them though.

[SandTrout]

111987 wrote...

Not to mention a Reaper's main gun can one-shot a dreadnaught...

Actually, we do not know this. The ships that Sovereign was swatting at the BotC were Cruiser class, not Dreadnaught. Also, ranges were extremely close in the BotC, and Dreadnaughts are meant as standoff fire platforms in order to grant them time to dodge incoming fire.

[Someone With Mass]

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

Not to mention a Reaper's main gun can one-shot a dreadnaught...

Actually, we do not know this. The ships that Sovereign was swatting at the BotC were Cruiser class, not Dreadnaught. Also, ranges were extremely close in the BotC, and Dreadnaughts are meant as standoff fire platforms in order to grant them time to dodge incoming fire.

http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Sovereign

" At two kilometers long, its spinal-mounted main gun is likely capable of penetrating another dreadnought's kinetic barriers with a single shot."

Sovereign didn't use its main gun at all in the battle.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 16 septembre 2011 - 10:18 .

[SandTrout]

That is because there is no guarantee that Reapers feature a spinal-mounted main gun. That calculation is speculation that assumes that Sovereigns fundamental design philosophy is similar to existing species. Their weapon systems, however, are not dependent on spinally-mounted MAC weapons, and there is no proof that they have them.

You should remember that Dreadnaughts are a giant MAC with a ship built around it to move it around and protect it. Reapers are meant to be monolithic constructs meant to house the essence of an entire species, not necessarily to engage in long-range slugfests with other ships of similar size. Reapers are not created in the same way as Dreadnaughts, and based on what we now know about them, they have extremely different design philosophies than ME warship designers.

[111987]

Someone With Mass wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

Not to mention a Reaper's main gun can one-shot a dreadnaught...

Actually, we do not know this. The ships that Sovereign was swatting at the BotC were Cruiser class, not Dreadnaught. Also, ranges were extremely close in the BotC, and Dreadnaughts are meant as standoff fire platforms in order to grant them time to dodge incoming fire.

http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Sovereign

" At two kilometers long, its spinal-mounted main gun is likely capable of penetrating another dreadnought's kinetic barriers with a single shot."

Sovereign didn't use its main gun at all in the battle.

Thank you.

So we know that a Reaper's main gun can one-shot a dreadnaught, and each one of its 10-11 Thanix Cannons can one-shot a cruiser. Scary stuff.

[Someone With Mass]

Reapers can be larger than dreadnoughts (dreadnoughts = about 1 kilometer, Sovereign = 2 kilometers), and I don't think people can mistake a mass accelerator weapon for something else. Especially one that looks like the prods of a mass relay.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 16 septembre 2011 - 10:33 .

[SandTrout]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Reapers can be larger than dreadnoughts (dreadnoughts = about 1 kilometer, Sovereign = 2 kilometers), and I don't think people can mistake a mass accelerator weapon for something else. Especially one that looks like the prods of a mass relay.

I am aware of the size difference, but your overall point is a bit unclear here. Are you saying that they cofirmed the presence of a spinal MAC from the demolished remains of Sovereign?

[Someone With Mass]

SandTrout wrote...I am aware of the size difference, but your overall point is a bit unclear here. Are you saying that they cofirmed the presence of a spinal MAC from the demolished remains of Sovereign?

I'd imagine that it's relatively easy to recognize railgun technology.

Also, considering that the remains were enough for the turians to build their own version of one of Sovereign's weapons, I think they can identify additional armaments.

[SandTrout]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'd imagine that it's relatively easy to recognize railgun technology.

Also, considering that the remains were enough for the turians to build their own version of one of Sovereign's weapons, I think they can identify additional armaments.

Railgun tech is actually very simple, with the main difficulty deriving from precision engineering and power demands. The same materials that can be used in a rail (or coil) gun are similar to those used everywhere else in the ship, such as power distribution, the main-propulsion system, and whatnot.

Considering that Sovereign was destroyed in a manner that any spinally-mounted weapon would have been utterly demolished, with support beams and weapon rails probably ending up indestiguishable without a detailed schematic and other knowledge about Reaper construction that we don't have.

It's perfectly reasonable for engineers to assume, like you are, that Sovereign featured a spinal gun. However, it's also reasonable for them to believe that it was simply demolished beyond recognition when Sovereign was destroyed.

Edit: Also, regarding the Thanix, that wepeapon is simply emulating the theory of opperation of Sovereign's weapons, and those weapons were far more modular than a spinally mounted MAC would be. All you would need to identify the Thanix is a single tenticle tip. Itentifying a MAC when the entire main hull was smashed to smitherenes is a tad more difficult.

Modifié par SandTrout, 16 septembre 2011 - 10:55 .