137 réponses à ce sujet

[mystia]

of course not but like the supernova theory why not a black hole the process is quite the same no?



ps:hmmm shoot a black hole well why not a modified M-490 Blackstorm on the Normandy (that is a joke)

[Belisarius09]

anyone have the source that says the turian homeworld of palaven is under attack at the start of me3 along with earth?

[Sgt Stryker]

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

I always though the mass accelerator round went straight through the Reaper, and continued on a straight trajectory until it impacted on Klendagon...

Well I suppose that is possible. (maybe even likely)

Regardless, firing shots at a plent from many light years away is also quite possible. If you know the planet's precise orbit and location in all four dimensions you can hit it. It just requires a solid grasp of math. Something I'm sure the Reapers have.

It seems more likely that the Reaper was between Klendagon and the weapon, rather than the other way around. A planetary impact before hitting the Reaper (even one that "only" grazed Klendagon) would substantially alter the projectile's flight path to the point where it would very likely miss the Reaper. I think the fact that it hit Klendagon in the first place was completely unintended by the ancients that operated this thing.

Unless of course, it was a "smart" relativistic mass accelerator round that could make minute course corrections....

[SandTrout]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Regardless, firing shots at a plent from many light years away is also quite possible. If you know the planet's precise orbit and location in all four dimensions you can hit it. It just requires a solid grasp of math. Something I'm sure the Reapers have.

Not quite. Unless the weapon is capable of self-correcting its trajectory or is travelling at FTL speeds, there is still a lot of slop in shots fired from lightyears away due to unforseen particles (comets and asteroids) and irregular forces such as solar winds.

Hiting a planet from within its own solar system is feasable, but lightyear-ranged dumbfire shots are not.

[NYG1991]

There was a CDN story where terrorists used a ship traveling @ FTL to crash into a planet and cause devastation. They might be able to use similar suicide tactics that might overwhelm reaper shields.

If it comes down to traditional broadside ship to ship combat combined fleets just don't have enough firepower to trade shots.

[Yakko77]

111987 wrote...

Nope.

The Reapers are too strong to be beaten like that. Otherwise a species like the Protheans whom had a galactic empire could have just thrown their fleets at the Reapers too, and won.

They couldn't concentrate their forces to try because the Reapers took over the Citadel and shut down the Relay network. Thus far, the Reapers have not attained that advantage.

[Yakko77]

Naval victory may not be the path to victory anyways. I still think victory will come from rigging relays to shoot the Reapers into a star or black hole.

[111987]

Yakko77 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Nope.

The Reapers are too strong to be beaten like that. Otherwise a species like the Protheans whom had a galactic empire could have just thrown their fleets at the Reapers too, and won.

They couldn't concentrate their forces to try because the Reapers took over the Citadel and shut down the Relay network. Thus far, the Reapers have not attained that advantage.

True. But a concentrated fleet attack against the Reapers will end with MASSIVE casualties on the part of the Citadel forces.

[capn233]

It seems more likely that the Reaper was between Klendagon and the weapon, rather than the other way around. A planetary impact before hitting the Reaper (even one that "only" grazed Klendagon) would substantially alter the projectile's flight path to the point where it would very likely miss the Reaper. I think the fact that it hit Klendagon in the first place was completely unintended by the ancients that operated this thing.

That's putting it quite diplomatically.

The reaper as the intended target, with the projectile continuing on to Klendagon, is the only logical conclusion.  To think otherwise means that you believe the race that took the shot fired at an uninhabited moon for no apparent reason and the ricochet managed to destroy a Reaper.

Oh and regarding why Sovi needed the Geth as related to the Reapers being beatable.  Of course they are not invincible, Vigil tells you this.  They are very powerful.  A lone one cannot stand up to an entire fleet necessarily, but how large is their fleet?  Because 1 of theirs is vulnerable to 20 of yours doesn't mean that 1000 of theirs are beatable by 1000 of yours.

Modifié par capn233, 18 septembre 2011 - 04:54 .

[Han Shot First]

mystia wrote...

of course not but like the supernova theory why not a black hole the process is quite the same no?



ps:hmmm shoot a black hole well why not a modified M-490 Blackstorm on the Normandy (that is a joke)

Black holes are created by supernovas.

Not all dying stars that go supernova are massive enough to create a black hole, but super massive stars will leave behind a neutron star as a remnant when they implode. If the star was massive enough the neutron star that is left behind will collapse in on itself and a black hole will be formed.

So, by the time a black hole had been created any Reapers in the area should aready be dead. They would have already been destroyed by the supernova that triggered the black hole.

If the black hole itself is going to be used to destroy the Reapers, they would somehow have to be lured into crossing the event horizon of an already existing one.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 18 septembre 2011 - 05:22 .

[Rolling Flame]

Well, a naval battle against the Reapers will be costly; there is simply no way around that. I think that a weapon that could do some serious damage against the Reapers would be plasma, which the Geth use on a small scale in their shotgun. According to the Codex, kinetic barrier don't protect against extremes of temperature, toxin and radiation. Superheated plasma is extremely hot, and projectiles based on the stuff would pass through the Reaper shields, which can be penetrated, as we have all seen.

Of course, this relies on the development of a cannon that can fire projectiles that can deal sufficient damage to the outer shell, and that doesn't melt after the firing of one or two salvos.

[SandTrout]

Rolling Flame wrote...

Well, a naval battle against the Reapers will be costly; there is simply no way around that. I think that a weapon that could do some serious damage against the Reapers would be plasma, which the Geth use on a small scale in their shotgun. According to the Codex, kinetic barrier don't protect against extremes of temperature, toxin and radiation. Superheated plasma is extremely hot, and projectiles based on the stuff would pass through the Reaper shields, which can be penetrated, as we have all seen.

Of course, this relies on the development of a cannon that can fire projectiles that can deal sufficient damage to the outer shell, and that doesn't melt after the firing of one or two salvos.

You're thinking along the correct terms, but Plasma is still matter, and must be delivered a high velocity in order to 1) hit the target and 2) maintain its state and concentration long enough before it defuses and cools.

The Thanix works on similar principals, and we know that we can fit those of a fighter. Even if the Reapers' shields stop the superheated metal used in the Thanix, the radient heat should be adequate to damage shield emiters and the outer hull.

[111987]

I actually think that if fighters installed GARDIAN lasers as their main guns, that would be the most effective way of bringing down a Reaper through conventional warfare. The Reapers would be too slow to kill the fighters, and the lasers would bypass the Reaper shields entirely.

[marshalleck]

111987 wrote...

I actually think that if fighters installed GARDIAN lasers as their main guns, that would be the most effective way of bringing down a Reaper through conventional warfare. The Reapers would be too slow to kill the fighters, and the lasers would bypass the Reaper shields entirely.

GARDIAN lasers would barely scratch a Reaper. They're designed to stop incoming ordnance (missiles & torpedos), not kill dreadnought sized ships.

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 septembre 2011 - 07:40 .

[SandTrout]

111987 wrote...

I actually think that if fighters installed GARDIAN lasers as their main guns, that would be the most effective way of bringing down a Reaper through conventional warfare. The Reapers would be too slow to kill the fighters, and the lasers would bypass the Reaper shields entirely.

Very true. I'm expecting fighters/carriers and frigates to take front-row in the tactical layout of the war. Which weapons they use (Thanix vs. GUARDIAN) will be based on in-universe measures of the destructive capability of each. So far, it has been implied that the GUARDIAN systems aren't quite up to snuff compared with the Thanix, but we don't have the technical details, really, to make a good analysis of comparing the two systems.

[SandTrout]

marshalleck wrote...

GARDIAN lasers would barely scratch a Reaper. They're designed to stop incoming ordnance (missiles & torpedos), not kill dreadnought sized ships.

Also true, but laser-based main weaponry for fighter craft isn't necessarily out of the picture either, depending on weather it can be adapted to the levels of output necessary.

[111987]

marshalleck wrote...

111987 wrote...

I actually think that if fighters installed GARDIAN lasers as their main guns, that would be the most effective way of bringing down a Reaper through conventional warfare. The Reapers would be too slow to kill the fighters, and the lasers would bypass the Reaper shields entirely.

GARDIAN lasers would barely scratch a Reaper. They're designed to stop incoming ordnance (missiles & torpedos), not kill dreadnought sized ships.

That's why I said incorporate it as a main gun, similar to what the Occuli uses. Their lasers also go straight through shields.

It would be a slow process, but if there are large numbers and they target key locations on the Reapers (such as concentrating on 'cutting' off the Reaper 'arms'), it could be useful. It would definitley be a lot faster than trying to whittle down a Reaper shield through conventional means.

[marshalleck]

SandTrout wrote...

111987 wrote...

I actually think that if fighters installed GARDIAN lasers as their main guns, that would be the most effective way of bringing down a Reaper through conventional warfare. The Reapers would be too slow to kill the fighters, and the lasers would bypass the Reaper shields entirely.

Very true. I'm expecting fighters/carriers and frigates to take front-row in the tactical layout of the war. Which weapons they use (Thanix vs. GUARDIAN) will be based on in-universe measures of the destructive capability of each. So far, it has been implied that the GUARDIAN systems aren't quite up to snuff compared with the Thanix, but we don't have the technical details, really, to make a good analysis of comparing the two systems.

Not true. You can discern the capabilities of each weapon system by their purpose. GARDIAN lasers are defensive in nature, whether it's a small weapon mounted on a single-occupant fighter for the intent of stopping the aforementioned missiles and torpedos, up to the large batteries on carriers and dreadnoughts used to take out said single-occupant fighters (and lesser ordnance).

The biggest GARDIAN lasers we've seen were the ones on Horizon, used to pummel the Collector ship. Obviously those turrets would not be mounted on a fighter, since they were larger than the fighters themselves. They were probably the same size you'd see on a cruiser or dreadnought, is my guess. 

[marshalleck]

111987 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

111987 wrote...

I actually think that if fighters installed GARDIAN lasers as their main guns, that would be the most effective way of bringing down a Reaper through conventional warfare. The Reapers would be too slow to kill the fighters, and the lasers would bypass the Reaper shields entirely.

GARDIAN lasers would barely scratch a Reaper. They're designed to stop incoming ordnance (missiles & torpedos), not kill dreadnought sized ships.

That's why I said incorporate it as a main gun, similar to what the Occuli uses. Their lasers also go straight through shields.

It would be a slow process, but if there are large numbers and they target key locations on the Reapers (such as concentrating on 'cutting' off the Reaper 'arms'), it could be useful. It would definitley be a lot faster than trying to whittle down a Reaper shield through conventional means.

That doesn't make sense. GARDIAN lasers don't have infinite amounts of power packaged into whatever size you want. The small versions are only useful for stopping missiles and torpedos, the larger can take out fighters but they begin to generate massive amounts of heat and eventually burn out. This is why GARDIAN lasers have always been relegated to defensive purposes. 

http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/GARDIAN

These weapons have limits. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 septembre 2011 - 07:49 .

[SandTrout]

I just had an idea, what about electrostatic based weapons? Shields do not protect against electric current, to my knowledge, and drive-core discharges have been noted to be capable of frying hull-mounted sensors.

Theoretically, it should be possible to create an electric 'bomb' in the form of a giant capacitor, that could at least temporarily blind a Reaper's sensors, leaving it unable to return fire against a swarm of opponents.

Not an end-all weapon system, by any means, but it could act like a fleet-scale flash-bang.

[Azbeszt]

Mass Effect shields don't protect against heat, right?

Now all we need is a huge magnifying glass 

[SandTrout]

@Marshalleck,

Fair point. However, the main limitation of GUARDIAN systems in naval warfare is the diffusion over range, limiting the systems to short-range capabilities. It is cited in the codex that at close range, GUARDIAN systems do become viable offense weapons, but most naval warfare is conducted at medium to long range, outside of the effective range of laser based systems. Fighters are inherently close-range combatants, meaning that diffusion largely becomes a non-issue.

Power and heat production are a matter of concern, but apparently the Thanix has a huge power draw as well, and bringing down a Reaper's shields is far more difficult than it is against modern ships, meaning that bypassing them completely is a much greater benefit against Reapers than against other fleets.

[111987]

marshalleck wrote...

111987 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

111987 wrote...

I actually think that if fighters installed GARDIAN lasers as their main guns, that would be the most effective way of bringing down a Reaper through conventional warfare. The Reapers would be too slow to kill the fighters, and the lasers would bypass the Reaper shields entirely.

GARDIAN lasers would barely scratch a Reaper. They're designed to stop incoming ordnance (missiles & torpedos), not kill dreadnought sized ships.

That's why I said incorporate it as a main gun, similar to what the Occuli uses. Their lasers also go straight through shields.

It would be a slow process, but if there are large numbers and they target key locations on the Reapers (such as concentrating on 'cutting' off the Reaper 'arms'), it could be useful. It would definitley be a lot faster than trying to whittle down a Reaper shield through conventional means.

That doesn't make sense. GARDIAN lasers don't have infinite amounts of power packaged into whatever size you want. The small versions are only useful for stopping missiles and torpedos, the larger can take out fighters but they begin to generate massive amounts of heat and eventually burn out. This is why GARDIAN lasers have always been relegated to defensive purposes. 

http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/GARDIAN

These weapons have limits. 

They do have limits, yes. But the lasers are burned out because of automatic, continuous usage. If their output could be manually controlled, they wouldn't burn out. After all the Occuli are capable of using lasers continuously.

[SandTrout]

They do have limits, yes. But the lasers are burned out because of automatic, continuous usage. If their output could be manually controlled, they wouldn't burn out. After all the Occuli are capable of using lasers continuously.

We do not know how long the Occuli can keep up continuous usage of their main weapon. The longest we saw any for was a couple of minutes.

[111987]

SandTrout wrote...

They do have limits, yes. But the lasers are burned out because of automatic, continuous usage. If their output could be manually controlled, they wouldn't burn out. After all the Occuli are capable of using lasers continuously.

We do not know how long the Occuli can keep up continuous usage of their main weapon. The longest we saw any for was a couple of minutes.

The Reapers wouldn't have designed their fighters to only have one main weapon that would burn out after a few minutes of fighting.