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[Drasanil]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

And the final of LotR is really sad and tragic.

It is, and people don't seem to get that.  Even authors don't seem to get that.  The ending of LotR has been copied by so many others, and they frame it as some sort of triumphant moment of historical transition.

But the death of wonder isn't triumphant.  It's depressing.

I hate the end of LotR.

Quoted for truth. The first time I read LoTR and finished the series it felt like a like a punch to the gut. Everything that made the world unique and enchanting withers and dies... congrats?

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Any ways, I think the DA universe could use a little less in the way of modern values some of it just gets jarring. My favourite example has to be orlesians that are A-okay with gay relationships, but suddenly there's a scandal because the emperor during the fereldan occupation was rumoured to be playing rump raiders with his male first cousin... uhm why? First cousin affairs would be pretty common in the aristocracy in the first place, keeping the blood pure and all... so that can't be the issue, nor is it that a homosexual relationship would produce a child damaged by incestuous origins so that can't be it either... and homosexual relations are viewed as a meer quirk... so where's the scandal?

I'd like to see more situational discrimination against everyone, having dirty peasants with perfectly modern, sensible and well informed views seems wrong. It doesn't even need to be hard-core discrimination but touches of ignorance and backwardness here and there to remind you that these people live in a different world. This is a world with out modern communications where rumour, stories and exaggeration are king and where information, facts and the truth would be an uncommon novelty for the priviledged few.

-Have people do a double-take when they see an elf with a clean shirt.
-Have the local barber-surgeon give you a bundle of leeches and send you on your way.
-Have peasants smear dung on their faces to ward away evil spirits after the local 'apostate' (read: old widow) gave them the 'evil eye'.
-Have men who want to become chantry brothers looked at suspiciously for wanting to do a proper woman's job.
-Have that one peasant who brings up the horrors of noble priviledge be looked upon like a wierdo who's in the minority. 
-Have peasants occasionally throw salt as a passing circle mage to keep him from souring the milk.
-Have remark that's it odd to see a dwarf that's not drunk or smithing.
-Have homosexual characters treated like their preferances are wierd and uncommon even if it's isn't 'wrong'.
-Have women who join armed forces be treated differently until they prove themselves and establish a rep.
-Have dalish be treated like boogey men with super-cooties.
-Have peasants flinch at the sight of a Qunari or maybe a mubble a prayer to the Andraste to protect their souls.

Modifié par Drasanil, 27 septembre 2011 - 08:11 .

[whykikyouwhy]

I don't know much about the scandal you cite. It didn't scream at me in any way as odd, because all manner of details could have been left out as to why an issue was raised. It's politics - Orlesian ones at that. Perhaps cheese was somehow involved - we know the Orlesians take their cheese seriously.

With regard to your list, I have a few comments:

-Have people do a double-take when they see an elf with a clean shirt. - What elves had clean shirts? Fenris and Merrill were often blood-splattered from battle. If there were to be any double-takes, it might be from excess gore.

-Have the local barber-surgeon give you a bundle of leeches and send you on your way. - First, Kirkwall would need a barber-surgeon. They are already in desperate need of a tailor.

-Have peasants smear dung on their faces to ward away evil spirits after the local 'apostate' (read: old widow) gave them the 'evil eye'. - I have yet to see dung in Fereldan. Perhaps all of the citizens who should be tailors are out collecting dung.

-Have men who want to become chantry brothers looked at suspiciously for wanting to do a proper woman's job. - What is a proper woman in Thedas? For that matter, what is a proper man?

-Have that one peasant who brings up the horrors of noble priviledge be looked upon like a wierdo who's in the minority. - I thought you wanted a dash of realism. What is more realistic than classism?

-Have peasants occasionally throw salt as a passing circle mage to keep him from souring the milk. - I haven't seen any milk around. Probably because it's being nabbed by Anders so he can feed the stray cats.

-Have remark that's it odd to see a dwarf that's not drunk or smithing. - Dwarves also act as merchants. Would they be the oddities you describe?

-Have homosexual characters treated like their preferances are wierd and uncommon even if it's isn't 'wrong'. - Since homosexuality doesn't seem to be uncommon in Thedas, why would anyone comment? What's to comment on? Unless Thedas has it's own version of TMZ.
 
-Have women who join armed forces be treated differently until they prove themselves and establish a rep. - You see a bit of that with Aveline but it's with regard to her being from Fereldan.

-Have dalish be treated like boogey men with super-cooties. - They already are. That's why there are alienages.

-Have peasants flinch at the sight of a Qunari or maybe a mubble a prayer to the Andraste to protect their souls.
- They probably already do. That's why the Qunari were penned up in a compound.

This hearkens back to the desire for DA games to be "realistic medieval" games while still maintaining fantasy. Bioware seems to do a pretty darn good job injecting issues of racism and classism into its world without having to dive too deeply into what is overly familiar - and that is simply because DA games do not take place in our own history. They may reflect some aspects of our past, but it's a whole different realm, with different societal rules. There isn't some DA transparency that can be placed over our past so that we can line up the images to where they match.

[Stanley Woo]

Drasanil, I think you're injecting way too much "real world history" into your "medieval-inspired fantasy game for a modern audience." I mean, that's cool if that's the kind of fantasy world you prefer, but the Dragon Age games are not intended to be simulations. They are entertainment products inspired by and reminiscent of both real world history and traditional and familiar storytelling and fantasy genre tropes.

[Drasanil]

Nyoka wrote...
The Qunari must stay in the area designated for them.

Considering said Qunari consisted of a contingent of fanatical soldiers from a nation which you are in an effective cold war  with who landed on your shores with out permision and have no apparent intention to leave 'confining' them is pretty accomidating or rather recklessly lenient as act 2 proved. This is disregarding the fact no one bothered to confiscate their weapons nor actually hamper their movements when they felt like exercising their mobility. 

Mages are forcefully taken away from their families before they do anything wrong and they have no say on that.

A reasonnable precaution given what mages can actually do. Civil liberties be damned we'd do the same to people here if they could do half of what DA's mage could.

Merrill is amazed at the notion of an elf living in High Town when you ask her to move into the estate. And I'm not sure about this one but I remember the dalish saying they can't stay for long because the humans will hunt them down?

]Are those things supposed to be politically correct now? I say DA2's society is f*cked up enough as it is.

The first two you mentioned are sensible, what do you think would happen if a battalion of north korean troops washed up on japanese shores or if a random small percentage of the population developed the ability to control minds and fart fireballs?

The last two could carry weight if they were better implemented but rather can across as rather hollow as is, kind of like mage-Hawke casting mega-death spells in plain sight with no one even batting an eye lash. 

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@Stanley, its more a question of if you're going to implement 'dark fantasy' features it shouldn't be done in such a disjointed and jarring way. Why do people discriminate against elves, who they actually find attractive (lore-wise)  and produce normal full-blood human offspring in interacial pairings when they're so open-minded and tolerant about everything else. Why does any one really care about what the Chantry says, the black or the white divine when irreverant agnostics and angry atheists can go unnoticed and unmolested. 

Modifié par Drasanil, 28 septembre 2011 - 12:12 .

[Drasanil]

Nyoka wrote...

It's very fine if you agree with Kirkwall's fascist policies (you said it, "civil liberties be damned"). Just don't pretend they are politically correct to modern sensibilities because they're not. That's the point I was making. Quoting myself: "Are those things supposed to be politically correct now?"

The answer is simple; yes. If a battalion of north koreans washed up on any western shore they'd be locked up with out a second thought and wouldn't enjoy half the freedoms the Qunari did, and if people did develop the ability to control minds and fart fireballs you can bet they'd get a similar treatment mages do in Kirkwall.  Look at how angsty people get over gun-control despite the fact it actually does little to nothing to prevent people who shouldn't have guns from actually having them. As for the elves bit it's iffy and depends on how you want to compare it, look at how illegal immigrants or even legal migrant workers are treated, they're acceptable targets despite the best efforts of politically correct advocates, but if you want to compare it to 'straight up' race based discrimination then no. 

[Drasanil]

Nyoka wrote...

In your world, segregationism and fascism are politically correct.

Have a nice day.

Reality enjoyed having you over for a visit please do come again:)