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[LobselVith8]

Originally, the Staff of Parthalan was listed as a remnant from an ally of Calenhad. "Magic has always run strongly within the Hawke bloodline. The tales passed down from one generation to the next tell of an ancestor named Parthalan, a mage who long ago helped to unite Ferelden under the rule of King Calenhad. Parthalan eventually vanished into legend, fleeing the persecution of the Chantry, but his legacy remains in the hands of his family – along with his hope that one day, mages would achieve the freedom that King Calenhad intended to bring to all men."

Parthalan's codex seems to have been revised from what the DLC was originally advertised as, with Parthalan not being a confidant of King Calenhad, but a Magister from Tevinter who mysteriously disappeared. "During the Exalted March, the Tevinter Empirium was in chaos. Magister Parthalan and two high-ranking magisters were sent to Kirkwall to put down the slave uprising before it spread to the entire empire. However, their legion never arrived at Kirkwall; no one knows what happened to the party, Magister Parthalan—or his fabled staff."

With the new DLC Pack, the codex entry for "Freedom's Promise" references the mage Aldenon, who was an ally of Calenhad. It seems that Aldenon has taken the place of who Parthalan was originally. His codex entry goes into detail about Aldenon's relationship with Calenhad:

"As Calenhad grew into a man, one great contentious issue separated him from Aldenon: Calenhad's faith. As biddable as Calenhad was on some topics, never would he back down from matters of honor or Andraste. What Aldenon believed, only Aldenon knew, but he most certainly did not believe in the Maker. The friends' arguments grew only hotter as they years passed.

"But that aside, the union of Calenhad's peerless honor and Aldenon's ingenuity overcame every obstacle set before them. Rivals turned into friends, treacheries were uncovered, and impossible battles won. But as we turned to Teyrn Simeon, no one rested easy. Teyrn Simeon's host outnumbered us many times over. He controlled the holy city of Denerim. Many great and terrible warriors had sworn him fealty.

"Aldenon conceived a plan to enlist strong allies and Calenhad went into the Brecilian Forest to make it so. But unbeknownst to the mage, Calenhad had made contact with the Chantry. When Calenhad returned at the head of the Ash Warriors as Aldenon expected, so as well did templars and Circle mages join our host. Aldenon was in a fury such as I've never seen. He wanted a kingdom of free men, of moral people beholden to law. Where a common man could tend his land safely and in peace. He lifted his staff and his voice echoed through the hills: 'A civilization cannot be civil if it condones the slavery of another. And that is what this Circle is! But by accident of birth, those mages would be free to live, love, and die as they choose. The Circles will break—if it be one year, a decade, a century, or beyond. Tyrants always fall, and the downtrodden always strive for freedom!'

"Then Aldenon left. And although Lady Shayna slew Simeon that day and Calenhad ruled a united kingdom, my liege was not the same without his mentor and friend. We live in the kingdom built on the dreams of two great friends, and we are all lessened by Aldenon's departure."

The codex entry was written from the Recollections of Ser Devith, who is listed as the banner knight of King Calenhad, so the historical account seems to be part of the lore of Thedas. I wonder if Aldenon will be acknowledged in the (potential) upcoming war between the templars and the mages, since he is part of the history of Ferelden's inception, and envisioned a nation where mages and non-mages would be free.

[WhiteKnyght]

So Calenhad was only allowed to have one mage supporting him?

[LobselVith8]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

So Calenhad was only allowed to have one mage supporting him?

Aldenon seems to be an apostate. It seems he left Calenhad's side when Calenhad accepted support from the Chantry and the Order of Templars because he saw the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Interesting. I don't have the new item pack, or any item pack, for that matter, so I've never seen the Codexes on the gear. I don't get it though, which one is supposed to be Hawke's ancestor, Parlathan or Aldenon.

And that's an odd choice of name. If anyone remembers NWN2, Aldenon was the name of the senile old sage who helps you find Ammon Jerro's haven.

[Urzon]

Does this mean that Anders was the DA's Merlin incarnate?

That means that Ser Pounce was really Archimedes!

......it all makes sense!

Modifié par Urzon, 17 septembre 2011 - 03:20 .

[LobselVith8]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Interesting. I don't have the new item pack, or any item pack, for that matter, so I've never seen the Codexes on the gear. I don't get it though, which one is supposed to be Hawke's ancestor, Parlathan or Aldenon.

And that's an odd choice of name. If anyone remembers NWN2, Aldenon was the name of the senile old sage who helps you find Ammon Jerro's haven.

Parthalan was originally advertised as Hawke's ancestor, but that seems to contradict the codex entry provided by the Staff of Parthalan that states that Parthalan was a Magister who disappeared during the Exalted March, which would've placed a few centuries between Magister Parthalan and Calenhad. It seems that Aldenon is now the mage who aided Calenhad in forging the warring teyrnrs into Ferelden.

Urzon wrote...

Does this mean that Anders was the DA's Merlin incarnate?

That means that Ser Pounce was really Archimedes!

......it all makes sense!

I'll never look at Merlin the same way again.

Speaking of Anders, I wonder if it's a coincidence that he saw the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery (along with a pro-mage Hawke) or if they are supposed to share the same perspective as Aldenon. Maybe Anders' manifesto was based around Aldenon's thoughts on how Ferelden should have been.

[naledgeborn]

Thought of this before, ninja'd for you posting it up before I did. And yeah, I remember Parthalan was supposed to be Calenhad's adviser and ancestor to Malcolm Hawke. It's a shame they scrapped that and repurposed it into Aldenon. Good eye LobselVith8.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Parthalan and Aldenon could even be the same individual. We know that the Tevinters have extensive knowledge of blood magic. And we know that blood magic can be used to extend lifespans. It is not beyond the field of possibilities.... Especially in fiction.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Parthalan and Aldenon could even be the same individual. We know that the Tevinters have extensive knowledge of blood magic. And we know that blood magic can be used to extend lifespans. It is not beyond the field of possibilities.... Especially in fiction.

That's not entirely accurate. Yes we know of two usages of blood magic that extend the lifespan of a person, but they also had other things going for them.

Zathrian's extended lifespan was due to a ritual that bound the Lady of the Forest to a Great White Wolf.

Such powerful magic could not be accomplished... without Zathrian's own blood.

And Avernus' extended lifespan is due to the fact that blood magic can help combat the taint's malicious properties. Blood magic and the taint are linked together. There's nothing to really indicate that blood magic by itself can extend the life of someone.

That we've seen anyway.

[aries1001]

I think we have to remember that codex entries in the DA world are written from a certain perspective, the
person writing them, that is. If (and I can't check this right now) the codex entries are written by two different people, it could mean that they wanted to tell a different story, or the truth as they saw (see) it.

Parthalan and Aldenon could still, as EmperorSahlertz points out, be one and the same person....

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Parthalan and Aldenon could even be the same individual. We know that the Tevinters have extensive knowledge of blood magic. And we know that blood magic can be used to extend lifespans. It is not beyond the field of possibilities.... Especially in fiction.

That's not entirely accurate. Yes we know of two usages of blood magic that extend the lifespan of a person, but they also had other things going for them.

Zathrian's extended lifespan was due to a ritual that bound the Lady of the Forest to a Great White Wolf.

Such powerful magic could not be accomplished... without Zathrian's own blood.

And Avernus' extended lifespan is due to the fact that blood magic can help combat the taint's malicious properties. Blood magic and the taint are linked together. There's nothing to really indicate that blood magic by itself can extend the life of someone.

That we've seen anyway.

As I recall he simply says he used blood magic to live as long as he has. He goes on about how he used blood magic to study the taint aswell, but not in combination with his extending his life.

Nevertheless, Zathrian alone is an example of how blood magic can extend a lifespan.

[lobi]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Parthalan and Aldenon could even be the same individual. We know that the Tevinters have extensive knowledge of blood magic. And we know that blood magic can be used to extend lifespans. It is not beyond the field of possibilities.... Especially in fiction.

That's not entirely accurate. Yes we know of two usages of blood magic that extend the lifespan of a person, but they also had other things going for them.

Zathrian's extended lifespan was due to a ritual that bound the Lady of the Forest to a Great White Wolf.

Such powerful magic could not be accomplished... without Zathrian's own blood.

And Avernus' extended lifespan is due to the fact that blood magic can help combat the taint's malicious properties. Blood magic and the taint are linked together. There's nothing to really indicate that blood magic by itself can extend the life of someone.

That we've seen anyway.

As I recall he simply says he used blood magic to live as long as he has. He goes on about how he used blood magic to study the taint aswell, but not in combination with his extending his life.

Nevertheless, Zathrian alone is an example of how blood magic can extend a lifespan.

Zathrian is an example of how being bound to a spirit extends life, like Wynne. Justice was an example of only a spirit in a dead body, which is why it felt 'wrong'.
There is an argument that blood magic can extend the life of a mage but this is due to the differences between health and a powerful drug like lyrium.
Blood magic relies on the constitution or good health of the mage. Not the amount of blood but the quality. This is why elves have an affinity because of their lifestyle. It is also why the blood of others can be used in certain rituals.

This is use of others usually occours if the mage is aged or if the mage is decadent and their own blood quality is lessend. In the former because of infirmity in the latter by excesses of debauchery. Disease may also have an impact.

Blood mages who rely on their own blood need to maintain health for the sake of their craft. Good health extends life. 
Bad people using blood magic will turn to 'murder for mana' because they are 'bad people' not because they are bloodmage.
Lyriums ill effects are already well documented. Lyrium mage =drug effed short life. Bloodmage (usually) healthy long life. Tevinters in The Alienage all looked very healthy.

Avernus may have been linked to the Old warden commander via bloodmagic due to the portals rite when both their blood may have been used. Avernus would have protected himself but left the warden commander to be fed off by the demon they are linked to. How long would Avernus live or remain sane after the Demons defeat. Avernus did not think he had long left, what changed? The original spell was the blood magic refered to.

Modifié par lobi, 17 septembre 2011 - 11:17 .

[naledgeborn]

I'm with Ethereal Writer on this one. Anyone who falls vitctim to the taint essentially becomes immortal. The only thing Avernus did was halt the taint's progression using blood magic. If he didn't he'd probably still be alive albeit a corrupted ghoul or a Darkspawn Emissary. The taint is what's keeping him alive not blood magic. Blood magic is ironicly keeping him 'human'.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 17 septembre 2011 - 11:13 .

[lobi]

naledgeborn wrote...

I'm with Ethereal Writer on this one. Anyone who falls vitctim to the taint essentially becomes immortal. The only thing Avernus did was halt the taint's progression using blood magic. If he didn't he'd probably still be alive albeit a corrupted ghoul or a Darkspawn Emissary. The taint is what's keeping him alive not blood magic. Blood magic is ironicly keeping him 'human'.

I would say it was his link to the demon that kept him sane like that warden in legacy. Only other blood magic Avernus concentrated on was mastering the taint. As long as that eluded him he could not dare defeat the demon because he would soon succumb to the taints madness. The wardens intervention changed all that and took the decision from Avernus's hands. If you let Avernus continue he comes up with more results, pressure much?

Modifié par lobi, 17 septembre 2011 - 11:25 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Parthalan was originally advertised as Hawke's ancestor, but that seems to contradict the codex entry provided by the Staff of Parthalan that states that Parthalan was a Magister who disappeared during the Exalted March, which would've placed a few centuries between Magister Parthalan and Calenhad. It seems that Aldenon is now the mage who aided Calenhad in forging the warring teyrnrs into Ferelden.

It certainly seems to shed light on certain things we were speculating on in another forum. If the codexes are correct, that is. But it would seem then, that the mages had an independant Circle in Ferelden, and only after Calenhad did the Chantry come in and take things over. So it seems Calenhad did turn against his mage supporters. Interesting.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I think there was no Circle in Ferelden until Calenhad befriended the Chantry, which then sent its support in the form of Circle mages.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I think there was no Circle in Ferelden until Calenhad befriended the Chantry, which then sent its support in the form of Circle mages.

That would actually make the most sense. Though I gather that there existed mages native to Ferelden who were freemen before the Chantry arrived. I'm not sure which this Parlathan/Aldenon is supposed to be. A native Ferelden free mage who opposed the introduction of the Circle, or a foreign Circle mage who hoped Calenhad would not implement a Circle in Ferelden.

[whykikyouwhy]

Aldenon is the mad hermit.


/theory du jour

[naledgeborn]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Aldenon is the mad hermit.


/theory du jour

THIS!!!!

+ ∞

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

naledgeborn wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Aldenon is the mad hermit.


/theory du jour

THIS!!!!

+ ∞

It does say he ventured into the Brecellian forest, and both companion mages remark that he is indeed very powerful.....

[Giggles_Manically]

That would be ...awesome.

Since he died in many of my game sadly.

[whykikyouwhy]

And regarding his longevity - it's due to his consumption of cheese. The cheese sustains.

/theory side dish

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I think it would be nice to hook Flemmeth up with the Aldenon the Mad Hermit. They were meant for each other.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I think there was no Circle in Ferelden until Calenhad befriended the Chantry, which then sent its support in the form of Circle mages.

I think it may have existed before Ferelden, given the entry on the Chantry controlled Circle Tower in Ferelden. According to Bioware's entry on Kinloch Hold, "The savagery with which the Avvars within the tower were slain created a grim legend that lasted for many centuries. Indeed, the tower was thought to be cursed and even haunted until finally the Circle of Magi assumed control over it in 3:87 Towers (after the original tower in Denerim was razed). Today the reputation of the tower fares no better." I think the Circle Tower existed for the mages in the teyrnirs to place mages in, since the Chantry controlled Circle of Kinloch Hold seems to have existed two "ages" prior to the inception of Ferelden under King Calenhad. It's stated that in 5:42 Exalted "Calenhad persuaded the Circle of Magi to come to his aid" (The Legend of Calenhad: Chapter 2).

[whykikyouwhy]

@Skadi_the_Evil_Elf - Flemeth is beyond the cares of the mortal heart. She would sooner drop the hermit into a pile of burning darkspawn than entertain the notion of courtship, or even tea & crumpets. She'd probably drag all of his secrets out of him first though...then fling him onto a tainted pyre.