147 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

dragonflight288 wrote...

In an attempt to remove this chaos, one can simply look to the past and those who came before. History is the greatest mentor of all. Great generals and kings have shown the way to improve the lives of all. We can learn the mistakes our ancestors made and see where things went wrong and not repeat them.

It is not in the words of a by-gone deity who turned away from his children...twice. Nor is it in the gods who abandoned their creations. But the true wisdom of our ancestors, good and bad intentions and mistakes, is what makes any culture great. Venerate your ancestors as we dwarves do, and may the stone support you.

Listen to these words, for it is with the guidance and wisdom of our forefathers that we truly become strong. Time goes on and changes the world, and with that change more change is required. They are ripples in an ever-growing lake. A society cannot be built around worship of a deity that cares not for the world. A society is built around the people who inhabit it, and by its very structure.

If that structure weakens, then the society will crumble. But if that society is strong, it shall thrive. And what makes a society strong is one thing: the denizens of the past. The Ancestors go on to strengthen our world so that we may do the same as they did.

Venerate the Ancestors. Honor the Paragons. Strengthen your society. For it is in this that you shall truly prosper. The Stone protects us. She is our savior, our protector, our friend, our solace, and our grace all at once.

[blothulfur]

Lazy Jer, hundreds of thousands of peasents are locked into slavery, privation and misery their whole lives in Thedas, yet you wish to free a miniscule minority of dangerous beasts from towers of decadent luxury that the peasents cannot even dream of being "confined" to. I say the mage rebellion is wrong because it is and I am right.

Dpssoc, if you cannot see the difference between the sting of the lash on a slaves back forcing him and all his ancestors and descendants into unjust compliance to an inept lord for no reason other than tradition and the orderly well maintained civilisation of the qunari then you are not just wrong, you are blind. True freedom is taking up your role under the Qun and excelling beyond the tyranny of instinct and self indulgence, bowing to no lord, beast or god only to the truth of the Qun.

Dwarven worship of the greatest amongst them shows much promise, that any can aspire to be a paragon no matter their birth shows wisdom. Indeed history is a great teacher and a society must build on its knowledge with each generation, for in the pursuit of paradise and enlightenment all wisdom must be maintained and new questions asked built upon its foundation.

And of course the centuries of self sacrifice that the dwarves have endured at the hands of the magisters blighted creations must be honoured, as in our long war with Tevinter they too know what it is to face true evil.

[Lazy Jer]

blothulfur wrote...

Lazy Jer, hundreds of thousands of peasents are locked into slavery, privation and misery their whole lives in Thedas, yet you wish to free a miniscule minority of dangerous beasts from towers of decadent luxury that the peasents cannot even dream of being "confined" to. I say the mage rebellion is wrong because it is and I am right. 

"I am right"?  Well I admire your stict conviction to your beliefs.  The fact that you don't let things like logic and reason sway your stance on the subject is really something to behold. 

Seriously though.  The mage rebellion isn't any more "wrong" then it is right.  It just is.  It's the result of a group of people fighting another group of people because they want something the other side wouldn't let them have.  It's no more wrong then two mabari fighting over a ham.

Modifié par Lazy Jer, 23 septembre 2011 - 08:05 .

[blothulfur]

That is no argument, nothing exists in isolation.

[Xilizhra]

The Qun is a false perfection. It exists bound to the material plane, somehow managing to enslave a whole society to it despite not actually existing.

Also, if you destroy the Fade, you'll destroy the minds of the entirety of Thedas.

[blothulfur]

Twaddle.

[Lazy Jer]

blothulfur wrote...

That is no argument, nothing exists in isolation.

Meaning what exactly?

[blothulfur]

The mage rebellion cannot be judged in isolation from the repression of the feudal kingdoms slaves, this is all contained in my opening argument.

[Xilizhra]

blothulfur wrote...

Twaddle.

As is the Qun.

[Lazy Jer]

blothulfur wrote...

The mage rebellion cannot be judged in isolation from the repression of the feudal kingdoms slaves, this is all contained in my opening argument.

Sure you can.  They're isolated incidents.  The mage rebellion happened because the Circle's lives were, quite literally, threatened.  The subjegation of the lower classes is a symptom of the corruption and abuse of power that goes hand in hand in any system of government where one person has absolute unchecked power above the masses.

I guess you could argue that the two are connected in that both involve a ruling class subjugating an opressed class, the Templars against the Circle on one side and the nobility against the lower classes on the other, but I fail to see how that makes the mage rebellion "wrong".

Modifié par Lazy Jer, 24 septembre 2011 - 05:34 .

[blothulfur]

Then i'll reiterate once again. The mages are seeking "freedom" in a feudal society that has no freedom for any bar the highest nobility (kings, divines etcetera) and thus they are not struggling for equality but rather for superiority. Superiority of the mage minority leads to the corruption and demon ruled tyranny of Tevinter, whose slavery shames even the feudal servitude of the rest of Thedas. This is WRONG, mages should never be granted freedom while the fade still leeches from reality (indeed they should be constrained more thoroughly.)

The only rebellion the people of Thedas should be partaking in is to oust their overlords and bow down to the Qun, thus freeing themselves to be judged on ability and ambition rather than faith in a non existent god, inbred bloodlines or even more illogical idiocy. This is not to be contested, it seems logical enough and any who condone this slavery are enemies of the people colluding in the shameful practise.

Nothing exists in isolation, the primary task of any society is to safeguard its people and seek perfection through enlightenment. If a society such as Thedas does not do this then it has failed. Repressing the vast majority of the population for illogical and false reasons is absurd, only with the people united, struggling for the greater good can perfection be attained.

Thedas stagnates and sinks into a dark age, the enlightenment of the Qun is needed to drive back the shadows of faith and nobility. Technologically, militarily, morallly and ideologically we are superior and so the wise man must choose the civilisation that is better suited to their own and their peoples advancement. Or when the chevalier comes to rape their daughters and steal their last pennies, they must be content in their choice of a moronic tyranny.

Modifié par blothulfur, 24 septembre 2011 - 08:23 .

[Xilizhra]

The Qun is a minor historical aberration. Magic is eternal; it is something you can neither comprehend nor truly face. All your vaunted idols of philosophy and structure will be ground up and swept aside along with the rest of history's dust as time passes. Only magic is a constant fixture in the world, and if you can't comprehend that, it will be your doom.

[DPSSOC]

blothulfur wrote...
Dpssoc, if you cannot see the difference between the sting of the lash on a slaves back forcing him and all his ancestors and descendants into unjust compliance to an inept lord for no reason other than tradition and the orderly well maintained civilisation of the qunari then you are not just wrong, you are blind. True freedom is taking up your role under the Qun and excelling beyond the tyranny of instinct and self indulgence, bowing to no lord, beast or god only to the truth of the Qun.

Is a beast in a pen more free than a beast in a cage, or are they equally bound by the will of another?  You talk of freedom within the confines of your role.  That is the freedom of sheep and cattle, to roam as far as they wish so long as they remain within their fences, lest the farmer forcefully drag them back.  I speak of the freedom of a hawk, who may soar as high and as far as they wish without restriction.  The feudal system cages the peasantry and chains them to their sticks to do a task, the Qun locks it's people in pens and calls it freedom.

[blothulfur]

Xilizhra an aberration is a harmful deviation from the norm, this describes mages not the qunari no matter how much mystical doggerel you hide the fact in.

Dpssoc, speak your rhetoric at the slave who has toiled all his life for a petty lordling whom he is stronger and smarter than, compare his life of poverty, privation and senseless punishment to the artisans of the Qun who live happy,safe and healthy in Par Vollen and bow their heads to no man. High blown concepts and philosophies are dung if they do not achieve results, the qunari struggle for the greater good and their striving benefits all not just an illogically chosen few.

We are not sheep, cattle or hawks, we are qunari and we are slaves to naught but truth and united purpose. Born and dying in freedom, one people under the Qun.

[Xilizhra]

Xilizhra an aberration is a harmful deviation from the norm, this describes mages not the qunari no matter how much mystical doggerel you hide the fact in.

Well, by your own admission, it's far from the norm. And given the amount of wars you've levied, I believe it's fair to say that it's harmful as well. As for mages, given something other than imprisonment, they could be far more helpful to society; as healers, as natural philosophers, etc.

[KenKenpachi]

Xilizhra wrote...

Xilizhra an aberration is a harmful deviation from the norm, this describes mages not the qunari no matter how much mystical doggerel you hide the fact in.

Well, by your own admission, it's far from the norm. And given the amount of wars you've levied, I believe it's fair to say that it's harmful as well. As for mages, given something other than imprisonment, they could be far more helpful to society; as healers, as natural philosophers, etc.

Or Turn into the Imperium.

[blothulfur]

The qunari are the norm, it is the illogical mad bas that are warlike and self destructive. Number their wars and battles against the campaigns we have waged and this is all too easily proven.

No mages must be leashed and controlled at all times, they are danger, they are deceit and they are doom in the end. As I said aberrations from the norm even among the insane bas.

[billy the squid]

DPSSOC wrote...

....

 I speak of the freedom of a hawk, who may soar as high and as far as they wish without restriction. The feudal system cages the peasantry and chains them to their sticks to do a task, the Qun locks it's people in pens and calls it freedom. the Qun locks it's people in pens and calls it freedom.

Freedom to starve is no freedom at all, food for thought.

Modifié par billy the squid, 24 septembre 2011 - 11:55 .

[Vit246]

Qunari, your Qun and your words are as empty as your future. The Imperium is the vanguard of your destruction. You will end because we demand it. Thousands of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure.

Na via lerno victoria.

Modifié par Vit246, 25 septembre 2011 - 05:09 .

[blothulfur]

It's been three centuries since we landed on Thedas' shores, you're certainly taking your time. Or have your demonic masters not sufficiently loosened the chains that bind you, dog of an abomination.

[DPSSOC]

blothulfur wrote...
Dpssoc, speak your rhetoric at the slave who has toiled all his life for a petty lordling whom he is stronger and smarter than,

 
If true than he should stand against him.  The only rule a free man need follow; your reach cannot exceed the strength of your arm.  If the slave is truly greater than his master he should slay him, or simply leave and make his life on his own.  If he won't do either he can blame no one for his position but himself, if he tries either and fails he misjudged his strength and will die.

blothulfur wrote...
compare his life of poverty, privation and senseless punishment to the artisans of the Qun who live happy,safe and healthy in Par Vollen and bow their heads to no man.

 
Contentment with your chains does not make them disappear.  As I said the Qunari have much gentler masters than the rest of Thedas but they are still your masters.

blothulfur wrote...
High blown concepts and philosophies are dung if they do not achieve results, the qunari struggle for the greater good and their striving benefits all not just an illogically chosen few.

And a free man struggles for the good of himself.  Yes highblown concepts and philosophies are worthless, until you apply them to action.  Until you pick up your weapon and strike your masters down, or break your chains and flee.

billy the squid wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
 I speak of the freedom of a hawk, who may soar as high and as far as they wish without restriction. The feudal system cages the peasantry and chains them to their sticks to do a task, the Qun locks it's people in pens and calls it freedom. the Qun locks it's people in pens and calls it freedom.

Freedom to starve is no freedom at all, food for thought.

It is the freedom to try, the freedom to fail.

[billy the squid]

DPSSOC wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
 I speak of the freedom of a hawk, who may soar as high and as far as they wish without restriction. The feudal system cages the peasantry and chains them to their sticks to do a task, the Qun locks it's people in pens and calls it freedom. the Qun locks it's people in pens and calls it freedom.

Freedom to starve is no freedom at all, food for thought.

It is the freedom to try, the freedom to fail.

And taint the world around them in their failure. No, the bas will learn to experience the fullfilment that only the Qun can provide.

[blothulfur]

One man alone is but a pebble in the stream, his life weak and without impact. It is in the coming together of the many that great things can be achieved, the strongest warrior will not stand without his shield brothers. The craftiest general is nothing without his troops. It is only through the peoples struggle for the greater good that they can advance on the path to enlightenment and perfection.

Yes the slave should slay his tyrannous master if he is strong enough, but can he stand against all of his corrupt society when they hunt him down for his crime? The solitary man, selfish and isolated builds nothing, achieves nothing and leaves nothing behind. That is a waste of life, and life is too precious to squander when it can be dedicated to taking one more step on the road to perfection.

[KenKenpachi]

billy the squid wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
 I speak of the freedom of a hawk, who may soar as high and as far as they wish without restriction. The feudal system cages the peasantry and chains them to their sticks to do a task, the Qun locks it's people in pens and calls it freedom. the Qun locks it's people in pens and calls it freedom.

Freedom to starve is no freedom at all, food for thought.

It is the freedom to try, the freedom to fail.

And taint the world around them in their failure. No, the bas will learn to experience the fullfilment that only the Qun can provide.

All of the mages and the Rebelions they have started are just like the Imperium, Maraas imekari.... The ignorant Bas, Preaching of Freedom, when it means only for them to hold the leash.

Anaam esaam Qun.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 25 septembre 2011 - 12:50 .

[blothulfur]

It is good to see other voices raised against the tyranny of the feudal kingdoms and the mages deceitful bid for power.