48 réponses à ce sujet

[nino1979]

Hello guys just went thru both OC  and was wonderin' wich characters u liked and not in installments:
-People I love to Hate: Bishop,Casavir,Elanee,Shandra
-People I like:myself(jk),Grobnar,Neeshka,Quara,Construct,Zeh and Khelgar
Just curious so u can answer or not.....

[Arkalezth]

Don't love anyone specially.

"Know that" I hate Zhjaeve (spelling?) with a passion.

[nino1979]

Yah,true "Know that"missus is anoyin' but at least usefull

[Esther]

I hated Neeshka and liked Sand, Khelgar and Grobnar. And I found Bishop fascinating, but like/love would be the wrong term there.

[mungbean]

I liked elanee, neeshka and casavir but you couldn't explore what was interesting about them.

What might've worked is a path style plot progression, where you select an intermediate sidequest to explore the backgrounds of one or more companions in order to advance to the final game stage.
You only get this with Khelgar as part of his vision quest and the recruit alliances quest.
I think the statues of purification quest could've and should've been replaced by further companion background quests instead and filled them out, provided more dialogue options and really explored those characters.

I like zhjaeve much better with the custom armour mod. I don't like ammon, shandra or grobnar much. Shandra totally doesn't make sense, she should've been a low level cleric or ranger (give her a CL 4 restriction or something), one minute she's a homely farmgirl playing damsel in distress and the next she's as tough as khelgar in combat but just lacks equipment, then her role is largely superfluous anyway. Given the proper companions don't get explored properly I found her an annoying waste of time in how much gameplay is dedicated to her.
I'd have much rathered delving into Neeshka's life, not Shandra's. I found her pretentious, hence her sudden warrior expertise out of character and poorly conceived, she would've been better as an 8th level ranger whilst the main party is 12th level for example, this wouldn't affect her role with the party while she's with it and make more sense. And then much less time spent developing her for a pretty soapy attempt at an emotive plot point when *gasp* she dies with little/no contribution.

You could've used any old magical way to get into ammon's haven, it would've been more fun to have to seek out a portal to it on the upper layer of Gehenna, Zhjaeve could've been more useful and interesting if she was your guide to travelling via the astral to gehenna to get into ammon's haven on the prime material.

Shandra wasn't required. Why Shandra? Why not Elanee or Neeshka? They're interesting.

[I_Raps]

I found Shandra to be by far the most positive character in the whole series. So I guess her fate was inevitable.

[nino1979]

Shandra was for me a piece of useless baggage no matter if played goddy-two-shoes or evil character.She should've team-up with Bevil cause they are same character except one has ta-tas

[Seagloom]

S Rank: Shandra Jerro, One of Many, Khelgar
A Rank: Safiya, Ammon Jerro, Okku
B Rank: Gannayev-of-Dreams, Sand, Neeshka, Qara, Elanee
C Rank: Zhjaeve
D Rank: Grobnar, Bishop, Casavir

I have yet to play through MotB with Kaelyn-the-Dove in my party. I have also never bothered to fully repair the construct. Therefore both characters were excluded from my listing. Although I think it is safe to state the construct would be at the bottom of D Rank for obvious reasons.

Shandra was my favorite character in the original campaign. She was the only one that came across as a person. Unlike everyone else, Shandra questioned the KC's actions from a rational perspective. It was almost as if Obsidian took someone from another, saner world than Abeir-Toril when writing her. Other than Khelgar, she was the sole OC party member to feel like a real friend. I felt like Shandra had my back. One part stalwart sidekick; one part moral compass.

If I had any complaint about Shandra, it is that she complained about her burned farm longer than necessary, given it was not really the KC's fault. The Githyanki Sword Stalkers would have razed it eventually. I feel Shandra receives an inordinate amount of criticism because she questions the KC's actions. Most players seem to dislike that sort of thing. Plus all the NPCs lavish her with attention, and no one wants to feel as if their protagonist is anything short of the most important person in the UNIVERSE!

Modifié par Seagloom, 17 septembre 2011 - 11:25 .

[HoonDing]

I love Shandra, Qara, Safiya

I like Khelgar, Neeshka, Elanee, Kaelyn, Gann.

I'm indifferent towards Zhjaeve, Okku, One of Many, Ammon Jerro, Casavir.

I dislike Grobnar, Sand.

I hate Bishop.

[The Fred]

I liked Khelgar (obviously) and Sand. I liked Elanee but as Mungbean said she was one of those not-very-well developed ones. Similarly, Shandra was fine but she wasn't with you long enough to be properly fleshed out. The game kind of kept acting like I knew her well, when really I didn't; also it's true that while she should have been capable, suddenly becoming a devastating machine of awesome (I think I had her dual-wielding Warmaces just for kicks) is crazy.

I liked and disliked Grobnar at various points, because he was funny but also a bit annoying (though tbh I didn't take him much), but when I disliked him it wasn't because he was badly done; perhaps the opposite.

I thoroughly disliked Qara AND Neeshka. One was stuck up, the other just super-annoying. I don't think they were even developed that well, despite their quest lines. Neeshka was also pretty useless in combat. Bishop I also disliked, and not for good reasons. I can get that he was a really annoying and somewhat horrible person (disliking characters because they're horrible in a well-written and flesh-out way is actually a good thing) but then why the hell did he insist in sticking around? My PC didn't like him. He didn't like me. The way the game forced you to keep everyone was just a pain, because then he could keep interjecting his annoying lines all the time.

Zhjaeve was annoying, but then she was a Githzerai. Ammon was cooler, but I think he was more of an excuse to throw in another evil character. He was actually pretty focused on saving the world, and it was never put forwards that this was just for his own sake. Yes he was an "end justifies the means" sort of person, but Lawful Neutral would probably have made a lot more sense as far as that went. Also the excuse for doing the whole "super-bad-guy-joins-your-team-after-you-narrowly-beat-him-and-then-is-no-longer-a-super-bad-guy-but-an-average-party-member" thing was a bit lame.

[HoonDing]

^I found Neeshka pretty devastating in combat once she dual-wielded and remained stealthed at all times. Not to mention her "Use any item" feat, almost making her into a backup wizard.

[Seagloom]

Agreed. Neeshka is a rogue. Rogues are wrecking balls against enemies vulnerable to sneak attack. She just needs more micromanagement than Khelgar or Shandra. I found Neeshka more useful as a glass canon than disarming traps and popping locks.

On Grobnar... I took him with me everywhere during my first complete run. Between my KC bard and Grobnar's inspirations, my party's warriors were nigh unstoppable. He had several hilarious moments and played off other characters well. I loved Khelgar and Shandra's responses to him at times. Also that line Bishop feeds him shortly after completing the first act. Sadly he mostly comic relief. The only time Grobnar seemed like more than a joke was his reaction to Shandra's death. It was like a child losing their innocence.

Once Grobnar's jokes lost their luster, so did my appreciation for him. His recruitment was the most nonsensical of any character in any RPG I played to date. The party meets him on their way to Old Owl Well and he asks to come along. You have no option to tell him to ****** off, and he has no logical reason to follow. There is no mention of him showing your group the way to their destination, or sharing information pertinent to the shard mystery. It was like Bishop's forced joining, but worse.

I might share my thoughts on everyone else later. It's been one of those weekends.

Modifié par Seagloom, 17 septembre 2011 - 08:08 .

[mungbean]

By Port Llast you can equip Neeshka in some mithral scale and have point blank/rapid shot feats, plus she gets a dagger that gives her dual weapon style in the Warehouse sidequest, and find a +3 rapier by then, give her all the wands you find and she turns into a complete annihilation. Just remember to stealth her at the opening round of combat and she takes out plenty and rarely dies (every now and then you just have to micromanage her positioning but most of the time she runs on AI and does very well indeed in my games).

Elanee is a melee tank set up with proper equipment/buffs. With magic and shapeshifting to boot (always select the feat that lets her cast in animal form and install the mod that recovers some HP when changing form). Especially at medium levels she's just about the most unstoppable in the party, but at lower levels or higher levels others outshine her.

Khelgar turns into a melee tank after he gets the hammer of stonefist but I've little use for him in the party after then, party places are at a premium with only four selections and a lot of priorities. At those higher levels I've only really room for one non-spellcaster and rogue skills are more important than a fighter, Elanee can fight, my PC is always a tough fighter, even Neeshka can fight.

[Zaxares]

I love Elanee, Khelgar, Neeshka, and Shandra. (My human mage + the first three was a perfect adventuring party. . Shandra wasn't really around long enough to grow on me the same way, but she always felt like the most "human" of the characters, just a regular person swept up in events beyond her control.)

I like Kaelyn, Okku, Grobnar, Ammon Jerro and Casivir. (Despite Casivir's bland personality, I feel that he actually hits the closest to how a true LG paladin should behave. Most fantasy depictions of paladins tend to show them as either religious zealots or a pacifistic redeemer. Ammon Jerro is probably one of the best "evil" characters I've ever seen in an RPG. He's ruthless in the pursuit of his goals and makes no apologies for it, but there is a very "human" side behind his evil, and he doesn't do what he does without reason.)

I'm indifferent towards Sand, Safiya, Gann and One of Many. (They're well-written characters, especially One of Many, but they don't strike particularly as people that I'd like to have along in my party. The fact that I'm a wizard and I DETEST arcane competition in my party maaaay have something to do with it though. )

I hate Qara and Bishop. (I'm still miffed to this day that Obsidian forced me to take both characters with me when I would have happily let them go their own separate ways. Instead, I shall have to console myself with the cold, grim satisfaction of ripping their souls out of their body and destroying it with Finger of Death spells. )

Modifié par Zaxares, 25 septembre 2011 - 12:39 .

[The Fred]

virumor wrote...
^I found Neeshka pretty devastating in combat once she dual-wielded and remained stealthed at all times. Not to mention her "Use any item" feat, almost making her into a backup wizard.

Yeah, you can build rogues to be pretty effective, but with there being so many crit-immune enemies and you having no way to move her into a PrC or dip another base class, there was only so much you could do. Perhaps you could deck her out with cool stuff and make her somewhat effective by Port Llast, but I for one had dropped her long before then (she's just so annoying!). I'd also rather have a real wizard than a "backup wizard", tbh. I guess I've never been too hot on rogues, though.

[I_Raps]

The Fred wrote...

Yeah, you can build rogues to be pretty effective, but with there being so many crit-immune enemies and you having no way to move her into a PrC or dip another base class, there was only so much you could do.

As one of the chief proponents of Chaos freedom in gaming on these forums, I am taken aback by this statement!  The "free levelling of companions" mod was one of the first things to ever show up on NWVault.  I'm shocked that you felt bound.

...

More generally, the "usefulness" of companions/npcs is about the last thing I care about in any game.  I am the star, these lesser lights need only shine on me properly to enhance my presence.  Their contribution to the story and cinematics is much, much more important to me than their contribution on the battlefield.  My thinking is that if you're relying on the npcs to win your battles, something is terribly wrong.

I'm pretty consistent about this. I have downloaded and started virtually every custom adventure for this game (and others) and several force a powerful npc (often cheated up to be more powerful than you can ever be) on you.  These modules get tossed aside.  Also, my npcs typically get the off-the-rack or found stuff;  the good crafted stuff and awesomely expensive purchases I reserve for myself (except for the eye-candy outfits consoled in for the ladies, of course - cinematics again).  Etc.

I don't really understand the whole "usefelness" (i.e. devastating in combat) requirement as seen in some of these posts.

...

And I should add - I have played and gamemastered in countless roleplaying games since 1975, with literally dozens of other players.  And I can't think of any who wanted or enjoyed powerful npcs foisted on them.  Except healers.  And buffers.  Those were always popular.

Of course, this is for actual Roleplaying.  A lot of computer gamers approach these games as tactical wargames, I think.  It comes with having hands-on control of the npcs, I suppose.  But something is lost in the transition - personalization.

Modifié par I_Raps, 18 septembre 2011 - 08:30 .

[Seagloom]

As with many things, it varies. I agree with you to an extent, I_Raps, in that NPC usefulness is not as important to me as what they contribute to dialogues. I will readily bring along a character I like over one I disfavor regardless of how redundant their presence is, or how lacking they are in combat. I always find a way to make it work.

The one area where we differ is I will go out of my way to care for my NPCs as if they were almost as important as my character. The protagonist always gets the best equipment and permanent boosts, if applicable, but I also buy or craft top of the line gear for regular party members. Sometimes I will even go so far as to do that for NPCs I rarely bring along in case the game throws a split party scenario at me. Few twists are more annoying than being forced to use poorly equipped second string party members.

I agree overpowered NPCs usually suck. Definitely not fond of the dreaded DMPC either. Often, characters of both types are author's darlings that cast a pall over the entire game. I will not bother playing if all signs point to my character being a glorified sidekick.

Modifié par Seagloom, 19 septembre 2011 - 08:41 .

[Quixal]

I really liked Khelgar, Safiya, Okku, Sand and Neeshka.

I was okay with Shandra, Jerro, Bishop (a villain to be sure but at least an interesting one) and Grobnar (and I consider the construct an extension of Grobnar).

I disliked Kaelyn, Casavir, Zhjaeve, Elanee and Gann.

I hated Qara.

I have yet to play through with One of Many in my party so can't really comment.

[The Fred]

I_Raps wrote...
As one of the chief proponents of Chaos freedom in gaming on these forums, I am taken aback by this statement!  The "free levelling of companions" mod was one of the first things to ever show up on NWVault.  I'm shocked that you felt bound.

Yeah, true, but that's like saying "Well I made a mod which made Neeshka well-written, interesting and not annoying, so she's a great character". In the (vanilla) OC, as it was delivered to us, Neeshka basically sucked (IMO). To be honest I'm not keen on rogues anyway, they're like a toolkit you're almost forced to have by the presence of traps and things, but not actually great at anything else (and everyone else sucks at the few things they can do well). Kind of looking forwards to Crimmor, though.

[Dann-J]

One of Many is my all-time favourite companion from *any* game. He/she/it is the companion that keeps on giving. He can switch between three classes at your command (rogue, barbarian, warlock), and he has to have some of the best lines in MotB. It was almost a pity to destroy him in SoZ.

From the first OC, I'd say the blade golem was my favourite. What's not to like about a relentless killing machine that doesn't annoy you with unwanted chit-chat?

Grobnar could be annoying, but I have to admit that he came in handy at times. Watching him terrify demonic hordes with a 'War Cry' was always amusing. "It's a gnome bard - run for your lives!"

[Seagloom]

~Hi-fives DannJ~

[Spawny]

Disliked - Elanee, Zhjaeve, Kaelyn. And Grobnar I want to kick like a football out of each play through
Liked - Ammon, Safiya, Gann, Bishop, Neeshka, Sand and Khelgar
Quara 50/50 depending how I'm playing it. She can be quite fun when she is on the same page as your character.

Modifié par HagSpawn, 20 septembre 2011 - 02:31 .

[The Fred]

I also thought my Warlock character got the short end of the stick in the Qara conversations. She's all going on about how powerful she is, and if you're a Sorc you can be like "yeah I really agree with you" but if you're another caster you can tell her she has much to learn. Thing is that those options were geared up for Wizardly types. I kept wanting to tell her that the greatest power comes not from within but from meddling with demonic forces, but I couldn't. :-(

[nino1979]

Here are the reasons I hate some of Characters;Bishop is jackass,Casavir is less whiner version of Alistair from Dragon Age and Shandra and Elenee have anoying points of Idealism that make me sick to bone;plus tree-worshiper thinks that she's smartest and wisest of the group,and Shandra is hilly-billy that lived on farm from birth and sudenly thinks she knows what is wrong and what is right in world.Qara is bit annoyin' cause of her attitude,but is kinda understandable cause she's kid with raging hormones and magic flowing thru her veins.Neeshka I can understand beacuse she's tiefiling and how everyone in Ferun "likes" half-breeds,exception for Aasimar and Half-Elves.