434 réponses à ce sujet

[Gunderic]

Atakuma wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Elves are supposed to be beautiful in DA lore, too.

2. There were plenty of ugly elves in Origins.
3. Different regions and cultures have different standards of beauty.

lol'd

[Gunderic]

Demon Velsper wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

At least some people aren't going to like the change just because it's a change

Don't forget to blame 4chan. Cause, you know, that's always the case when people don't agree with you.

Hahaha, lol. Nice find. 

[Wintersbreath]

I like how Fenris and Merill look. Just not most of the other elves...I'm hoping to see elves with different builds. Are they malnutrition-ed or are they just genetically skinny? Fenris was a slave but Merill should get enough food, I guess. What does a buffer Fenris look like, I wonder.

[DreamerM]

David Gaider wrote...
Poor Orana. Getting rolled out as the poster child by anyone who doesn't like the new elves. Personally, I think the worst thing about her appearance is that makeup -- I mean, what's up with the pastels? Gosh.

....I know the conversation has moved so far past this that it's not even funny but... thank you for awknowleging that Bioware's "ugly makeup" problem is almost as severe as their "ugly underwear" problem. Please, someone, anyone, study some Sephora advertisements and start putting their women in color-combinations that a real woman who is not a clown and not colorblind might actually wear...

...Actually Sephora might not help you with that, given that all their ads tend to look like elves and/or fairies. But that'd work great for fantasy, probably.

...What exactly is the lore on Thedas cosmetics anyway? It's not even mentioned and yet it seems every woman from the lowest peasent girl to the Queen never steps outside without a ton of it. That Morrigan would manage to mix red eyeshadow and liquid liner in the woods made sense, -that- is very Morrigan. Where's everyone else getting their cosmetics from? What are they made of? Why can everyone afford so much of them?

.... No one besides me cares, so I'll go back to my hole now. Sorry folks.

Modifié par DreamerM, 17 novembre 2011 - 10:40 .

[Marvin_Arnold]

You'd be surprised how ancient cultures made their make-up out of easy to find substances and how much of it everyone used. Egyptians, Greek, Romans – Fellini's Satyricon, though by no means aiming to be 100% historically correct, has some gruesomely accurate examples of this...

As for these anime-style Elves, enough has been said already (including me). If you outsource the design to Roswell aliens, then that's what you get...



Jeepers, at least give them some chins and noses! For the DA lore to work, they're supposed to be attractive, even seducing! How else should they get work as Antivan Crows or, um, "social workers" at the Blooming Rose??

Seriously, the huge irises are a big problem (as is the nonexistent nose and chin). They make the exes expressionless and spooky. (see the pictures of DA:O/DA2 Sketch one page before)

This has nothing to do with uglier individuals. The DA:O elves were believable as sentient beings, not to mention love interests. (Poor Zevran! Loosing his most characteristic features - nose, jaw, and chin...) The DA2 elf-animal hybrids fall right into the deepest abyss of the uncanny valley...

(And for those blind enough to claim that "The DA:O elves were just short humans with pointy ears": No, they weren't – i'm really appalled at this statement. Their facial features were quite different (ever tried to create a satisfying elf character?) Maybe compared to DA2, but even a Fox Terrier would look human compared to these abominations.

The DA:O elves were what we call "Western Elves". (And they were around long before Tolkien...) And DA is Western fantasy. Whoever had the idea of introducing Japanese-style elves should be stoned with books on aesthetics. And they don't work because the whole game is Western style. They are an aesthetical foreign body. If you want Japanese fantasy elves, go watch Record of Lodoss War... (They work there because even (young) humans have those big eyes there):

Screenshot, elf and human (so much for "original elf design in DA2"...)

The secret to exotic beauty is a SLIGHT difference, not blowing them completely out of proportions.

Modifié par Marvin_Arnold, 18 novembre 2011 - 04:55 .

[DreamerM]

Fantasy people are just exaggerated people people.

Dwarves are short hairy people. Elves are slim sexy people with pointed ears.

What I'd like to see kind of clarified is how tall elves are supposed to be. See, I was pretty sure in Origins that elves were about a foot shorter then their human counterparts. There doesn't seem to be that difference in Origins. Heck, Fenris is taller then F!Hawke.

Personally, I'd like for cannon reasons to see Elves stand, on average, about a head shorter then humans, and for Fenris to just be an unusually tall elf. But that's just me.

[AnniLau]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Holy Mother of Partha! Those ears are huge! And people say DAII's elves had donkey ears? That mod seriously gave the elves donkey ears.

Personal choice...I like them prominent. The mod will let you scale them down however.

Modifié par AnniLau, 20 novembre 2011 - 11:26 .

[Lynata]

I didn't have as much of a problem with the ears, but the eyes and noses were just too much. Their Codex description as "beautiful" and indeed their roles in society, as has already been pointed out earlier, just becomes unbelievable. Personally, I find it sad that the DA:O elves apparently won't be coming back, but I guess there's nothing we can do about it.

What I just don't get is the "reason" for the change - obviously, the opinion within the studio had changed between the two titles. I wonder why? Were the DA2 elves turned into Na'vi-copies to appeal to a different subsection of the fandom, or were the designers not satisfied with the admittedly cliché "human with pointy ears" look? If the latter, I have to add that the dwarves and dragons and probably many more things look just at cliché (or is it planned that they get a new look in DA3 as well?), and change just for the sake of change isn't necessarily an improvement in any way, especially when it starts to affect already established designs that were deemed perfectly fine by the customers, whereas the makeover can easily be judged as at least controversial.

A matter of taste, obviously. It is truly unfortunate that those who prefer the "oldschool fantasy" look have been spoiled by DA:O, for the elves of this franchise will now forever be compared to them, and the players will know they have lost something they liked - which is far worse than never having had the chance to get used to it.

[whatevah]

Gunderic wrote...

whatevah wrote...

I think Bioware needs to find a middle ground between the elves of Origins and those of DA2. I did like some changes made to the elves for the second game. But most of them were hideous, and rather frightening. Skin color, and being way too skinny in disproportional ways were huge contributing factors. One example being that their necks were often too long and too slender and seemed to get even skinnier where neck meets shoulders. Did anyone else notice that? or is it just me? I personally did not like the new Zevran. Another disturbing transformation for one of the elves was Sketch from the Leliana's Song DLC. He then has a cameo appearance in DA2. Take a look at this absolute fail:



Sketch from Leliana's Song
vs

Creepy, skinny, pale alien Sketch from DA2. I believe I rest my case. Many times in DA2 especially (which made me laugh and cringe at the same time) people and elves make mention that elves are fairer and more beautiful than humans and are sought after for their looks and company. I really don't see it.....again maybe that's just me.

Jesus, you're scaring the children! 

I KNOW, right? Scared me a bit, too!
Perhaps if this alien-looking guy wasn't supposed to be an elf we've already seen and interacted with then I could let it go with the excuse that, Oh, he got hit with the ugly stick. But what gets me is that they didn't even TRY to make this Sketch look ANYthing like the other Sketch. I'm all for redesigning....when the redesigns are better. I love the new Qunari, and there are some things (very small things) about the new elves I like, but holy hell. Let's find some middle ground.

This also makes me wonder about the next Dragon Age and those of us who made elf wardens in Origins. ((The way the story is going I believe they have to bring in the Hero of Ferelden (if he survived Origins). Whatever the grey wardens are searching for in DA2, the Hero of Ferelden's and the Champion's mentioned disappearances at the end of DA2...They're all coming together in the next game. At least that's what I think. I could be totally wrong and some of you may have more info or insight on that.)) Anyway, if that happens, what are our elf warden's going to look like? If their transformations are as bad as poor Sketch's, I'm done.

[AliceTheGiraffe]

Personally, I think the elves in DA:O look much better, and Bethesda did a better job at revamping their races. (I love both Bethesda and Bioware).
DA:O races > DA2 races
Skyrim races > Oblivion races

I think why this happened is because Bethesda took the art style from Oblivion and just made it better graphically (this made the game much more immersive because both Skyrim and Cyrodiil are in the same globe), where as Bioware completely changed the art style of Dragon age. Kirkwall....and the new elves don't even look like they're from the same planet as Ferelden.

[stobie]

I like the DA2 elves better, but when I used the elf-Hawke mod, it was hard to get them to look right, somehow. The thing I like *vastly* better is the Dalish elf accent. That is wonderful - soooo much better. I finally found a mod that builds Zevran off Fenris's structure, and it's beautiful - better than the original. I think they can tweak these elves into something a little less... skinny & alien and still be much more interesting than Origins elves. (that said, my 2 favorite characters remain my 2 Origins elves) I'd like them to look lithe rather than skinny-bony, but that shouldn't be a massive alteration from the current model.

As for the Qunari, I just thought they were fantastic here. I also modded Sten to look like the new model, & I came to like him better. (I didn't exactly *like* the new Qunari, but they were amazingly fun, & that had to be the best section of the game. That, & Petrice was such a wonderful, vile villain!)


eta:  Oh, & there's a very pretty elf maid in MotA - the one with the olives.  There are a lot of pretty elves. Huon has to be considered an extreme.  

Modifié par stobie, 02 janvier 2012 - 02:03 .

[Silfren]

Gabey5 wrote...

for da3?



or this




what do you guys think?

I sincerely hope they don't.  One of the bigger failings of Origins is that the Elves don't look anything at all like a separate race.  Just shorter humans. 


I think all the crap about the Elves of DA2 being one of its own primary failings--and for some people, apparently, one of the very few issues, as if there was nothing at all wrong with DA2 beyond reused maps and the graphics, which is mindboggling but hey--is ridiculous.  Whether the Elves are unattractive now is a matter of personal perspective, and that seems to be the most common complaint from people who don't like the visual depiction of DA2 elves.  I don't find them unappealing at all, but even so I find the idea that they're so horrendous as to make it hard to play the game just silly.


The Elves need to look distinctive, and in DA2 they do.  YOu can immediately recognize an Elf for an Elf by their appearance now.  And in the case of the Dalish, especially, having distinctive accents that set them apart was also a nice touch.  Yay for a touch of authenticity and realism! 


It's a fact of improving and changing graphics engines that even games within the same milieu are likely to look different.  That's not a game-breaking inconsistency, it's the way things go in an environment where computer technology is constantly upgrading.  So I never expected DA2's characters to look like those of Origins, even in the case of recurring characters, and I don't expect DA3 models to look just like DA2's.  But I'll be extremely disappointed if the elves go right back to looking like short humans.

[alex90c]

Silfren wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

for da3?



or this




what do you guys think?

I sincerely hope they don't.  One of the bigger failings of Origins is that the Elves don't look anything at all like a separate race.  Just shorter humans. 

How on earth is that a bad thing? Seriously, can someone tell me that?

Every interpretation of elves I've seen has just been "humans with X feature instead of Y", and it doesn't bother me in the slightest, but for some reason BioWare feels the urge to go from humans with pointy ears to ... ugly humans with pointy ears.

[Silfren]

alex90c wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

for da3?



or this




what do you guys think?

I sincerely hope they don't.  One of the bigger failings of Origins is that the Elves don't look anything at all like a separate race.  Just shorter humans. 

How on earth is that a bad thing? Seriously, can someone tell me that?

Every interpretation of elves I've seen has just been "humans with X feature instead of Y", and it doesn't bother me in the slightest, but for some reason BioWare feels the urge to go from humans with pointy ears to ... ugly humans with pointy ears.

How is it not a bad thing?  Dwarves don't look like short humans.  They look like Dwarves.  Why shouldn't Elves also look like a separate, distinct race, rather than just short humans?

[alex90c]

Dwarves do look like short humans.

[happy_daiz]

I would just be happy if the elves actually looked GOOD. Both versions of elves look pretty simplistic when you compare them to other games. The Falmer in Skyrim have WAY more detail than DAO or DA2 elves.



Sure, they're ugly, but look at all that detail.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 03 janvier 2012 - 07:45 .

[Wolf]

I hope not as I like that they have made elves look and feel distinct from humans, however, I do hope they work on the faces a bit more to not have situations like Orana (who I find adorable, but with a really weird-looking face). Just work the face models a bit and elves will not only look unique but good-looking aswell.

Modifié par Gaiden96, 03 janvier 2012 - 08:13 .

[Wolf]

happy_daiz wrote...

I would just be happy if the elves actually looked GOOD. Both versions of elves look pretty simplistic when you compare them to other games. The Falmer in Skyrim have WAY more detail than DAO or DA2 elves.



Sure, they're ugly, but look at all that detail.

I see your point but you can't really compare the two considering Bethesda uses a different engine.

[alex90c]

Gaiden96 wrote...

I hope not as I like that they have made elves look and feel distinct from humans, however, I do hope they work on the faces a bit more to not have situations like Orana (who I find adorable, but with a really weird-looking face). Just work the face models a bit and elves will not only look unique but normal.

They are not distinct. They are still humans with pointy ears, BioWare have just thrown in some extra ugly and made them all anorexic.

[happy_daiz]

Gaiden96 wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

I would just be happy if the elves actually looked GOOD. Both versions of elves look pretty simplistic when you compare them to other games. The Falmer in Skyrim have WAY more detail than DAO or DA2 elves.

Sure, they're ugly, but look at all that detail.

I see your point but you can't really compare the two considering Bethesda uses a different engine.

Yep, true. I bet BW designers are probably somewhat disgusted with the limitations of the engine they're using. If I were in their shoes, I would be.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 03 janvier 2012 - 08:00 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Don't worry about the engine. I am sure the Frostbite 2 engine, which is rumored to be used for DA3, will be able to handle that level of detail just fine.

[happy_daiz]

Well, if that's the case, the gauntlet has been thrown!

[SpiderFan1217]

I don't want them to change the elves back. In DA:O they were just small pointy eared humans. To be honest I was dissapointed they didn't change the dwarfs any.

[SpiderFan1217]

Gaiden96 wrote...

I hope not as I like that they have made elves look and feel distinct from humans, however, I do hope they work on the faces a bit more to not have situations like Orana (who I find adorable, but with a really weird-looking face). Just work the face models a bit and elves will not only look unique but normal.

SpiderFan1217 Approves +10 !!