434 réponses à ce sujet

[Kroitz]

Collider wrote...

I like DA2's aesthetic take on elves and I hope they keep it.
DA:O's version was not very unique and was boring.

You might not like the elven design of the upcoming movie. It might bore you with it´s un-uniqueness.

[tmp7704]

David Gaider wrote...

Ultimately it was Felicia herself who said to go with the most elven version-- after all, a video game isn't as bound to reality as a live webseries, and she wanted to stick to the lore as much as possible.

So you could say that Tallis looks human and unlike the other elves from a screenshot, I suppose, but you'd be wrong.

Except, you know, that "most elven version" of Felicia Day you've ultimately gone with still looks like 100% human Felicia Day when viewed from this particular angle. With pointy ears.



so i really don't think such assessment is "wrong".

[Salaya]

So, it's definitive. Elves are going to be like DA2. Now I'm sad ._.

You guys keep saying that "new" elves look distinctive, but that does not make ay sense to me. I mean, even accepting that (I don't believe so, since they have parts from various designs, poor implemented), does that mean that the design is better? The response to the new elven looks is polarized. I won't say more ._. I feel like discussing this is pointless.

[Sanguinerin]

I like that the elves aren't pointy-eared humans, actually, and that they're now a little more distinct.

I wouldn't call Orana hideous, but those cheeks do freak me out just a little bit. However, it's also not the first example of prominent cheek bones and/or sunken cheeks. Compare her to Ilen, perhaps, or Pol from Origins. Ilen had it going a bit, and Pol was a little more drastic.

I've never met anyone with quite so dramatic cheek features (at least, no one comes to mind), so characters like these might stand out. Putting up an Origins Merrill with DAII Orana isn't a proper comparison of elves. Like humans, elves do have some diversity in their facial features.

You should put together multiple examples side-by-side, because Origins Merrill and DAII Orana don't represent all elves in either game.

I think DAII's Fenarel, Fenris, Ilen, Marethari, Merrill, Varania, and others look great. The Dalish clan is actually quite a great example of comparison. I like most of the elves from the clan better in II than I do in Origins.

My only issue with the elves are Merrill and Zevran. Merrill came across as more stern and studious in Origins, while both her face and personality in II seemed more childish. She seemed to be more aware and serious in Origins, as I would expect from someone training to be a Keeper. She didn't strike me as so innocent, naive, or selfish before.

As for Zevran, his face is incredibly puffy. Alistair's also seemed a bit puffy in comparison. I think this is just a problem with the new face system. On all of my female Hawkes, I always had the "cheek width" slider as far to slim side as possible, but I still felt like I never quite got rid of puffiness.

Basically...
I like the new elves. I think Merrill looks great, but I preferred stern appearance her in Origins. I like most of the clan better in DAII, if not all of them. Zevran's the only bad example (in my opinion) that didn't look great when shifted over. As far as DAII elf characters that are new, some look great, while others not so much. Not every human is gorgeous either, so there are going to be a few tragic-looking elves in the mix as well.

[Wulfram]

tmp7704 wrote...

Except, you know, that "most elven version" of Felicia Day you've ultimately gone with still looks like 100% human Felicia Day when viewed from this particular angle. With pointy ears.

And big irises.  And a raised nose bridge, which is somewhat visible from head on.

And all regular elves are is humans with pointy ears, raised nose bridges and big irises.  Well, and alarmingly skinny bodies.

[tmp7704]

Wulfram wrote...

And big irises.  And a raised nose bridge, which is somewhat visible from head on.

And all regular elves are is humans with pointy ears, raised nose bridges and big irises.  Well, and alarmingly skinny bodies.

Yes; humanoids with few slightly different features are totally new and refreshing change from tired approach of humanoids with few slightly different features.

[Nerevar-as]

David Gaider wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...
what do you guys think?

Poor Orana. Getting rolled out as the poster child by anyone who doesn't like the new elves. Personally, I think the worst thing about her appearance is that makeup -- I mean, what's up with the pastels? Gosh.

Beyond that, while our elves may be tweaked in appearance (and, indeed, our face morphing system for all characters is likely to change as we move forward anyhow), we're definitely not going back to humans-with-pointy-ears. So, while pulling up the best elven pictures from DAO and the worst elven pictures from DA2 may be an interesting exercise, it's not going to convince us to suddenly reverse course. Sorry.

It´s not like there are that many good looking DA2 elves. To me Merrill is the best, and part of it was that the nose and forehead aren´t a straight line as with the rest of them. So in a way she´s cheating the new design. Doing something to the angle of the ears would probably help too. For some reason as it is I keep thinking in donkeys whenever I see an elf.

The sad thing is, DA elves were unique. Besides Sapkowski´s work, I can´t think of any widely known setting were elves have it that bad. Why is there now such an obssession with the appearence? Most players who aren´t fans of the game aren´t going to recognize them for DA elves anyway, even if their reaction to the new looks is favorable, which from what I read here and other forums doesn´t seem to be the case.

[David Gaider]

tmp7704 wrote...
so i really don't think such assessment is "wrong".

It's as correct as the people who originally insisted that Merrill had giant breasts or Carver a derpy face, all from a single screenshot. Her in-game face is considerably different from her scan-- which is as different as elves get from humans, which is not as much as some might think but it's definitely there.

At any rate, as with Merrill and Carver there's little point in arguing about it. You'll see what I mean soon enough.

[David Gaider]

Nerevar-as wrote...
The sad thing is, DA elves were unique. Besides Sapkowski´s work, I can´t think of any widely known setting were elves have it that bad. Why is there now such an obssession with the appearence? Most players who aren´t fans of the game aren´t going to recognize them for DA elves anyway, even if their reaction to the new looks is favorable, which from what I read here and other forums doesn´t seem to be the case.

The opinion on the new elven look is about as uniform as the opinion on DA2 itself, and I suspect there's a bit of blending of the two. At least some people aren't going to like the change just because it's a change, even if the original version of the elves wasn't all that spectacular. And even if that isn't the case, we're not crowd-sourcing the appearance of our races-- we wanted our races to be more distinct from one another as a goal, and that's what we've done. Short of the tweaks I mentioned earlier (which will come as technology changes demand, in particular), we're not going back to the original style.

Modifié par David Gaider, 18 septembre 2011 - 09:25 .

[tmp7704]

David Gaider wrote...

It's as correct as the people who originally insisted that Merrill had giant breasts or Carver a derpy face, all from a single screenshot.

That's true, but at the same time consider that saying "Carver on this screenshot has derpy face" when he does actually have derpy face on said screenshot... is not wrong. So in the same sense, when someone says "oh a lovely DA2 elf" and out of many possible pictures presents one on which said "elf" appears very much like regular human, then pointing out this similarity is a fair observation to make, i think.
 

Her in-game face is considerably different from her scan-- which is as different as elves get from humans, which is not as much as some might think but it's definitely there.

That's pretty much the main point -- that not only the facial differences aren't that large to begin with, but also that the DA2 elves which tend to get mentioned as examples of "hey, the new elves can look pretty too" usually have these features relatively subdued. Speaking specifically about Felicia's character, the trailers allow to get pretty good look of her from all angles, and she looks more to me like middle ground between the regular DA2 elves and humans (face-wise) Which i personally don't mind, but when she gets immediately singled out as example of what an attractive "new elf" looks like i think it does show in a way that the 'original' DA2 redesign was largely a miss, even with (some of) people who claim to love it.

Modifié par tmp7704, 18 septembre 2011 - 09:37 .

[naledgeborn]

Tweaks would be welcome. By the way DA:O Elves weren't that great either. More Athenril, less Orana please.

[Sylvius the Mad]

David Gaider wrote...

Short of the tweaks I mentioned earlier (which will come as technology changes demand, in particular), we're not going back to the original style.

How does technology change demand?  It's your designs (and those of other developers) that change demand by creating expectations in the players.

I doubt many people would be so adamant that the PC needs to be fully voiced if the PC had never before been fully voiced, for example.

You guys create demand.  Technology does no such thing.

[mesmerizedish]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Short of the tweaks I mentioned earlier (which will come as technology changes demand, in particular), we're not going back to the original style.

How does technology change demand?  It's your designs (and those of other developers) that change demand by creating expectations in the players.

I doubt many people would be so adamant that the PC needs to be fully voiced if the PC had never before been fully voiced, for example.

You guys create demand.  Technology does no such thing.

I think you grouped the wrong words together. Mr. Gaider's not saying that technology is affecting a change on demend. He's saying the changes in technology will demand that they implement tweaks in how their face morph systems work.

[Sylvius the Mad]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Short of the tweaks I mentioned earlier (which will come as technology changes demand, in particular), we're not going back to the original style.

How does technology change demand?  It's your designs (and those of other developers) that change demand by creating expectations in the players.

I doubt many people would be so adamant that the PC needs to be fully voiced if the PC had never before been fully voiced, for example.

You guys create demand.  Technology does no such thing.

I think you grouped the wrong words together. Mr. Gaider's not saying that technology is affecting a change on demend. He's saying the changes in technology will demand that they implement tweaks in how their face morph systems work.

Ah, yes, that makes more sense.

Thanks, Ish.

I feel like Brother Francis misinterpreting the triple appositive Fallout Survival Shelter as a shelter where fallout goes to survive.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 18 septembre 2011 - 09:42 .

[FaeQueenCory]

David Gaider wrote...

Yeah, I'm afraid not. We had a scan of Felicia's face and actually went through a process of deciding how much we wanted to "elf" her up. There were versions that ranged from "very" to "hardly at all" (with the latter looking more like a DAO version of an elf, even with a more human body)... the main argument being that, in order to more closely mirror Felicia's appearance in the webseries, we'd have to deviate from the new elven appearance. The versions were very different from each other.

Ultimately it was Felicia herself who said to go with the most elven version-- after all, a video game isn't as bound to reality as a live webseries, and she wanted to stick to the lore as much as possible.

This would actually be something that I think many people would like to see, myself included. Kinda like concept art... but not exactly.
Please, post it, Mr. Gaider<3!!

And I for one am vey glad Ms. Day decided to veto any sort of no-face-morphing of Tallis to fit with lore. And while I orginally didn't like the way the retool of the elves looked... mainly just the lack of forehead-nose distinction... It's grown on me.
So much so that I would NOT want a reversion to Origins' Elves... Though I wouldn't mind a little indentation where the nose joins the eybrows and forehead... not much... but a slight bit to make them.... less "na'vi" like.<_<

God, I despise that movie...

And should you, Mr. Gaider, or some other dev post the "sliding scale of Tallis' Elven-ness"... You shall have my undying Love. Or my undying Hate. Take your pick. There really is no difference between those two things anyways...

EDIT: Upon a little closer inspection..... There IS a slight indentation where their noses join their forehead.... So nevermind.
I still despise that god-awful movie though.

Modifié par FaeQueenCory, 18 septembre 2011 - 10:38 .

[TEWR]

FaeQueenCory wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Yeah, I'm afraid not. We had a scan of Felicia's face and actually went through a process of deciding how much we wanted to "elf" her up. There were versions that ranged from "very" to "hardly at all" (with the latter looking more like a DAO version of an elf, even with a more human body)... the main argument being that, in order to more closely mirror Felicia's appearance in the webseries, we'd have to deviate from the new elven appearance. The versions were very different from each other.

Ultimately it was Felicia herself who said to go with the most elven version-- after all, a video game isn't as bound to reality as a live webseries, and she wanted to stick to the lore as much as possible.

This would actually be something that I think many people would like to see, myself included. Kinda like concept art... but not exactly.
Please, post it, Mr. Gaider<3!!

And I for one am vey glad Ms. Day decided to veto any sort of no-face-morphing of Tallis to fit with lore. And while I orginally didn't like the way the retool of the elves looked... mainly just the lack of forehead-nose distinction... It's grown on me.
So much so that I would NOT want a reversion to Origins' Elves... Though I wouldn't mind a little indentation where the nose joins the eybrows and forehead... not much... but a slight bit to make them.... less "na'vi" like.<_<

God, I despise that movie...

And should you, Mr. Gaider, or some other dev post the "sliding scale of Tallis' Elven-ness"... You shall have my undying Love. Or my undying Hate. Take your pick. There really is no difference between those two things anyways...

They have completely different noses. Na'vi have cat like noses. Elves don't.

And there kinda is a slight indentation in Merrill's nose, and I believe Athenril's as well. Possibly more.


EDIT: I have seen your edit.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 18 septembre 2011 - 10:39 .

[FaeQueenCory]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

They have completely different noses. Na'vi have cat like noses. Elves don't.

And there kinda is a slight indentation in Merrill's nose, and I believe Athenril's as well. Possibly more.


EDIT: I have seen your edit.

LoL You posted that JUST as I made my edit!

[FaeQueenCory]

Double posts
Curse my crazy internets!

Modifié par FaeQueenCory, 18 septembre 2011 - 10:42 .

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
so i really don't think such assessment is "wrong".

It's as correct as the people who originally insisted that Merrill had giant breasts or Carver a derpy face, all from a single screenshot. Her in-game face is considerably different from her scan-- which is as different as elves get from humans, which is not as much as some might think but it's definitely there.

At any rate, as with Merrill and Carver there's little point in arguing about it. You'll see what I mean soon enough.

Well I look forward to seeing it. As for the ear thing. You could just diversify the elves more in the future by giving different ear shapes and features to certain types.

As for her story. It seems odd that the Qunari would hire an elf to hunt down a rogue Serebaas. In DAII they seemed to prefer dealing with their affairs personally and the Arishok didn't have a high opinion of those who sell their blades for coin.

[TEWR]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
so i really don't think such assessment is "wrong".

It's as correct as the people who originally insisted that Merrill had giant breasts or Carver a derpy face, all from a single screenshot. Her in-game face is considerably different from her scan-- which is as different as elves get from humans, which is not as much as some might think but it's definitely there.

At any rate, as with Merrill and Carver there's little point in arguing about it. You'll see what I mean soon enough.

Well I look forward to seeing it. As for the ear thing. You could just diversify the elves more in the future by giving different ear shapes and features to certain types.

As for her story. It seems odd that the Qunari would hire an elf to hunt down a rogue Serebaas. In DAII they seemed to prefer dealing with their affairs personally and the Arishok didn't have a high opinion of those who sell their blades for coin.

yea that bugged me too. I'm still unsure why she would be working for the Qunari when she isn't one of them and they prefer to hunt down Tal-Vashoth themselves (something the Arishok tells Hawke and Javaris).

@FaeQueenCory: Whoa

[David Gaider]

The Grey Nayr wrote...
As for her story. It seems odd that the Qunari would hire an elf to hunt down a rogue Serebaas. In DAII they seemed to prefer dealing with their affairs personally and the Arishok didn't have a high opinion of those who sell their blades for coin.

Yes, that would be odd. Maybe it comes up in the DLC?

[thats1evildude]

An elven assassin is capable of getting into places a qunari cannot.

For example: let's say your assassin has to infiltrate a well-guarded palace posing as a servant. No one bats an eye at an elven mad, but a qunari dressed up as a butler? He's a tad conspicious.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 18 septembre 2011 - 11:41 .

[TEWR]

David Gaider wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...
As for her story. It seems odd that the Qunari would hire an elf to hunt down a rogue Serebaas. In DAII they seemed to prefer dealing with their affairs personally and the Arishok didn't have a high opinion of those who sell their blades for coin.

Yes, that would be odd. Maybe it comes up in the DLC?

Evil evil man.

Still, good enough for me.

thats1evildude wrote...

An elven assassin is capable of getting into places a qunari cannot.

For example: let's say your assassin has to infiltrate a well-guarded palace posing as a servant. No one bats an eye at an elven mad, but a qunari dressed up as a butler? He's a tad conspicious.

You're confusing things. The issue isn't about the race of the assassin, but that the Qunari hired someone who isn't a Qunari.

Qunari translates to "people of the Qun". The race you're thinking of is called the Kossith, who are a part of the Qunari. Tallis isn't a part of the Qunari, so that's why people are confused.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 septembre 2011 - 12:03 .

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...
As for her story. It seems odd that the Qunari would hire an elf to hunt down a rogue Serebaas. In DAII they seemed to prefer dealing with their affairs personally and the Arishok didn't have a high opinion of those who sell their blades for coin.

Yes, that would be odd. Maybe it comes up in the DLC?

Well I suspected what happens in Redemption might tie into the DLC. But I couldn't be sure seeing as Mark of the Assassin can happen anytime within a six year range and Tallis' mission would likely end in the final episode of the web series.

Thanks for the info though. ;p

Btw, what would happen if you locked Tallis, Isabella, and Zevran in a room together?

Also to the original poster, Orana looks the way she does likely because she's malnourished. Slaves are not fed well. Also I don't like Merril as much in DAO. Her looks, voice, and personality are better in DAII.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 19 septembre 2011 - 01:15 .

[TEWR]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...
As for her story. It seems odd that the Qunari would hire an elf to hunt down a rogue Serebaas. In DAII they seemed to prefer dealing with their affairs personally and the Arishok didn't have a high opinion of those who sell their blades for coin.

Yes, that would be odd. Maybe it comes up in the DLC?

Well I suspected what happens in Redemption might tie into the DLC. But I couldn't be sure seeing as Mark of the Assassin can happen anytime within a six year range and Tallis' mission would likely end in the final episode of the web series.

Thanks for the info though. ;p

Btw, what would happen if you locked Tallis, Isabella, Varric, and Zevran in a room together?

Also to the original poster, Orana looks the way she does likely because she's malnourished. Slaves are not fed well. Also I don't like Merril as much in DAO. Her looks, voice, and personality are better in DAII.

Fix'd .

Also, agreed on Merrill. Though she's still confident around the clan in DAII like she was in DAO. She's just not confident around humans.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 septembre 2011 - 01:21 .