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[1136342t54_]

rapscallioness wrote...

Vega was clearly defending himself. The Batarians took it to the next level in this one situation. Vega tried to resume the card game....if some thugs jump you and try to kill you, I hope you fight for your life.

They assumed he was a Shepard lover, and took it from there. Even when Vega said let's just play cards. I don't understand faulting him for defending himself. He didn't go after them. He went after that tv..lol. But then he even paid for that plus with his winnings...

If your responding to me note that I'm not saying its necessarily Vega's fault entirely he just didn't need to actually destroy the freaking TV. That was obviously going to garner some dislike from the Batarians already pissed off at humans.

[rapscallioness]

@113... no, actually you posted b4 I got done w/ mine.

The tv was ott..lol. but again, the batarians got angry w/ him because they assumed the reason for it. They coulda just picked up their chips and walked because this guy was acting crazy.

[Sajuro]

rapscallioness wrote...

Vega was clearly defending himself. The Batarians took it to the next level in this one situation. Vega tried to resume the card game....if some thugs jump you and try to kill you, I hope you fight for your life.

They assumed he was a Shepard lover, and took it from there. Even when Vega said let's just play cards. I don't understand faulting him for defending himself. He didn't go after them. He went after that tv..lol. But then he even paid for that plus with his winnings...

He clearly started it by ripping the TV off of the wall, the Batarians attacked him first but if Vega had taken his calmness and left the bar with his winnings, he wouldn't have had to listen to the new blather about Shepard, but instead he calmly rips the tv from the wall and then acts like nothing happened which provokes it, to compound on it he doesn't try to talk the Batarians down, only taunting them more and you know, killing someone by tackling him off of a blacony.

[InHarmsWay]

Sajuro wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Vega was clearly defending himself. The Batarians took it to the next level in this one situation. Vega tried to resume the card game....if some thugs jump you and try to kill you, I hope you fight for your life.

They assumed he was a Shepard lover, and took it from there. Even when Vega said let's just play cards. I don't understand faulting him for defending himself. He didn't go after them. He went after that tv..lol. But then he even paid for that plus with his winnings...

He clearly started it by ripping the TV off of the wall, the Batarians attacked him first but if Vega had taken his calmness and left the bar with his winnings, he wouldn't have had to listen to the new blather about Shepard, but instead he calmly rips the tv from the wall and then acts like nothing happened which provokes it, to compound on it he doesn't try to talk the Batarians down, only taunting them more and you know, killing someone by tackling him off of a blacony.

So if you watch someone destroy someone else's tv then you are justified in beating him up?

Modifié par InHarmsWay, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:18 .

[Sajuro]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Vega was clearly defending himself. The Batarians took it to the next level in this one situation. Vega tried to resume the card game....if some thugs jump you and try to kill you, I hope you fight for your life.

They assumed he was a Shepard lover, and took it from there. Even when Vega said let's just play cards. I don't understand faulting him for defending himself. He didn't go after them. He went after that tv..lol. But then he even paid for that plus with his winnings...

He clearly started it by ripping the TV off of the wall, the Batarians attacked him first but if Vega had taken his calmness and left the bar with his winnings, he wouldn't have had to listen to the new blather about Shepard, but instead he calmly rips the tv from the wall and then acts like nothing happened which provokes it, to compound on it he doesn't try to talk the Batarians down, only taunting them more and you know, killing someone by tackling him off of a blacony.

So if you watch someone destroy someone else's tv then you are justified in beating him up?

If I ripped a tv off a wall while it was talking about someone being tried as a war criminal while people whose race had been victimized and then called it BS, I wouldn't be surprised that they would consider those to be fighting words and come after me with knives. Vega intentionally provoked them into attacking, if  you do something that you know will provoke another person and then kill them when they subseqauently attack you, that isn't self defense.

[InHarmsWay]

Sajuro wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Vega was clearly defending himself. The Batarians took it to the next level in this one situation. Vega tried to resume the card game....if some thugs jump you and try to kill you, I hope you fight for your life.

They assumed he was a Shepard lover, and took it from there. Even when Vega said let's just play cards. I don't understand faulting him for defending himself. He didn't go after them. He went after that tv..lol. But then he even paid for that plus with his winnings...

He clearly started it by ripping the TV off of the wall, the Batarians attacked him first but if Vega had taken his calmness and left the bar with his winnings, he wouldn't have had to listen to the new blather about Shepard, but instead he calmly rips the tv from the wall and then acts like nothing happened which provokes it, to compound on it he doesn't try to talk the Batarians down, only taunting them more and you know, killing someone by tackling him off of a blacony.

So if you watch someone destroy someone else's tv then you are justified in beating him up?

If I ripped a tv off a wall while it was talking about someone being tried as a war criminal while people whose race had been victimized and then called it BS, I wouldn't be surprised that they would consider those to be fighting words and come after me with knives. Vega intentionally provoked them into attacking, if  you do something that you know will provoke another person and then kill them when they subseqauently attack you, that isn't self defense.

They could just tell him to take his winnings, leave, and go f*ck himself. They attacked him. Yes, destroying the tv ticked them off, but he didn't go, "come at me, bro." He ticked them off indirectly, but they started the fight.

[elsaviour]

A man after my own heart! Ripping TVs off walls, killing batarians, crushing jaws with his head. He's like a krogan in a human body...well done sir!

[Sajuro]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Vega was clearly defending himself. The Batarians took it to the next level in this one situation. Vega tried to resume the card game....if some thugs jump you and try to kill you, I hope you fight for your life.

They assumed he was a Shepard lover, and took it from there. Even when Vega said let's just play cards. I don't understand faulting him for defending himself. He didn't go after them. He went after that tv..lol. But then he even paid for that plus with his winnings...

He clearly started it by ripping the TV off of the wall, the Batarians attacked him first but if Vega had taken his calmness and left the bar with his winnings, he wouldn't have had to listen to the new blather about Shepard, but instead he calmly rips the tv from the wall and then acts like nothing happened which provokes it, to compound on it he doesn't try to talk the Batarians down, only taunting them more and you know, killing someone by tackling him off of a blacony.

So if you watch someone destroy someone else's tv then you are justified in beating him up?

If I ripped a tv off a wall while it was talking about someone being tried as a war criminal while people whose race had been victimized and then called it BS, I wouldn't be surprised that they would consider those to be fighting words and come after me with knives. Vega intentionally provoked them into attacking, if  you do something that you know will provoke another person and then kill them when they subseqauently attack you, that isn't self defense.

They could just tell him to take his winnings, leave, and go f*ck himself. They attacked him. Yes, destroying the tv ticked them off, but he didn't go, "come at me, bro." He ticked them off indirectly, but they started the fight.

They could have, but Vega could have said "No, I am just sick of Udina" and left. With the state the Batarians seemed to be in, Vega's dismissal of them was basically a "come at me, bro"
I am not saying that the Batarians are victims of circumstance, but the fight is ultimately Vega's fault as he provoked them when someone of his rank should have known better than that.

[IndigoWolfe]

didymos1120 wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

I went over the fight pages and I could find any one where a batarian had a knife in his chest. Vega disarms the batarian with the knife and that's the last we see of it. And the blood, I expect, came from the batarian who got head-butted in the face.

You must be blind:



I'm sure he's just taking a nap, though, and that knife is like his teddy bear.

Very well, I stand corrected.

[javierabegazo]

I'm waiting for the day that the Mass Effect writers come up with something more for a WHOLE RACE OF SENTIENT BEINGS (Batarians) that doesn't consist of "Evil, aggressive, mindlessly violent tool"

[rapscallioness]

@Sajuro so if somebody ticks you off....indirectly, no less..you feel you're justified pulling a knife on them and attacking them?

Vega didn't say one word to them. Did not lay one finger on them. Watever issues he was having, he took them out on the tv. Not them. They attacked him and if he did not defend himself, he would have been killed.

They had no idea what he was really pissed about. They assumed he was supporting Shepard and that he thought Shepard's actions were okay.

He wasn't trying to ****** them off. He's just pissed. About what exactly none of us actually knows. Including those Batarians. Vega even tried to continue the card game, but they didn't want to.

Yes, Vega should have gotten the hell up if he didn't like what he was hearing on the tv. Taken his chips and been a richer man for it. But he didn't. That is still no excuse for those guys to come at him like that.

[Drone223]

javierabegazo wrote...

I'm waiting for the day that the Mass Effect writers come up with something more for a WHOLE RACE OF SENTIENT BEINGS (Batarians) that doesn't consist of "Evil, aggressive, mindlessly violent tool"

I second this

[rapscallioness]

javierabegazo wrote...

I'm waiting for the day that the Mass Effect writers come up with something more for a WHOLE RACE OF SENTIENT BEINGS (Batarians) that doesn't consist of "Evil, aggressive, mindlessly violent tool"

But I don't see the Batarians like that. Even those Batarians that were recruiting mercs for Garrus recruitment mission were cool. They reminded me of some guys from round the way. "Ah, he doesn't pay me enuf for that".

They were alright. I don't see them as any more....shady...than any other species, frankly. Some are cool and some try to kill you. That's seems pretty much standard galaxy wide.

[Sajuro]

javierabegazo wrote...

I'm waiting for the day that the Mass Effect writers come up with something more for a WHOLE RACE OF SENTIENT BEINGS (Batarians) that doesn't consist of "Evil, aggressive, mindlessly violent tool"

There's the sick Batarian, the Batarian Looters, the Batarian on Garrus' squad, and even some of the Mercs
If I were in the Batarian's positions (a Batarian special forces blew up a relay and wiped out a human colony) I would be pretty pissed off too at people who thought they were so much better than me.
I really think it is just that BSN has failed to get the message that not all Batarians are evil and every example of a decent Batarian is dismissed while the Batarians attacking humans get multiple threads about them about how Batarians are evil (Gerbner's mean world theory applies to video games as well)
Damn, I could hug all of you guys right about now

[rapscallioness]

@laecraft I still can't comfortably say Vega was irate because Shepard was being bad mouthed. It could have been he was ticked because he sees this whole thing driving humanity into a bloody war.

As afr as explaining himself to the Batarians...sigh..sometimes things are too personal. Sometimes you don't feel like justifying your demons.

Also, I think things could have gotten to a point where Vega was just like, "You want something? Then I got something for you."

He could be world weary. And tired of this..bull sh*t. He's trying to ****** his life and forget all that. But here it is, right in his face.

I don't think him ripping out the tv was premeditated. I think it was an act of emotion. Something may have clicked right after he did it, and he realized how it must have looked.

My first thought was that Vega was a Shepard lover..or at least sympathized. But without any explanation from Vega for his actions, I didn't feel confident enough in that to embrace it.

He could be. I hope he is. But I need to see and hear a little bit more from him before I can tell.

[Sajuro]

rapscallioness wrote...

-snipped on both ends-
They had no idea what he was really pissed about. They assumed he was supporting Shepard and that he thought Shepard's actions were okay.

Really? What was he calling Bull **** then? the fact that Udina was councilor? In context it seems clear that he is upset at the charges against Shepard, that people are renouncing him. Maybe he has a little brother who has cancer, but you aren't told that so it is assumed he is upset about Shepard.

[rapscallioness]

Sajuro wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

-snipped on both ends-
They had no idea what he was really pissed about. They assumed he was supporting Shepard and that he thought Shepard's actions were okay.

Really? What was he calling Bull **** then? the fact that Udina was councilor? In context it seems clear that he is upset at the charges against Shepard, that people are renouncing him. Maybe he has a little brother who has cancer, but you aren't told that so it is assumed he is upset about Shepard.

Yes, really.

You aren't told that he's upset about Shepard, either. Maybe he was calling the whole thing bull sh*t. The wars; the machinations; the way ppl turn on each other at a moments notice.

"It" isn't assumed. You are assuming.

Now, I'm not  going to argue with you trying to support the idea that he's Not at least a Shepard sympathizer. Because the truth is, idk. I'm uncertain because I don't think there's enough there to say hands down one way or the other.

But he didn't say annything about them bad mouthing Shepard was bull sh*t. He said he didn't want to hear that bull sh*t anymore. What he's thinking is bull sh*t, we don't know for sure.

It's not clear at all. You're just filling in the holes with what you think the reason for his outburst should be. He's human after all. Of course he's so enthralled with Shepard, it would move him to rip the tv out the wall.

Really? Wow. Shepard is jjust so damn compelling.

[Swimming Ferret]

Huh, wonder how the crew reacted with Shepard being chained up and jailed. Especially the LI if you have one XD

Personally, I like Vega and look forward to meeting him in ME3.

[Sajuro]

rapscallioness wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

-snipped on both ends-
They had no idea what he was really pissed about. They assumed he was supporting Shepard and that he thought Shepard's actions were okay.

Really? What was he calling Bull **** then? the fact that Udina was councilor? In context it seems clear that he is upset at the charges against Shepard, that people are renouncing him. Maybe he has a little brother who has cancer, but you aren't told that so it is assumed he is upset about Shepard.

Yes, really.

You aren't told that he's upset about Shepard, either. Maybe he was calling the whole thing bull sh*t. The wars; the machinations; the way ppl turn on each other at a moments notice.

"It" isn't assumed. You are assuming.

Now, I'm not  going to argue with you trying to support the idea that he's Not at least a Shepard sympathizer. Because the truth is, idk. I'm uncertain because I don't think there's enough there to say hands down one way or the other.

But he didn't say annything about them bad mouthing Shepard was bull sh*t. He said he didn't want to hear that bull sh*t anymore. What he's thinking is bull sh*t, we don't know for sure.

It's not clear at all. You're just filling in the holes with what you think the reason for his outburst should be. He's human after all. Of course he's so enthralled with Shepard, it would move him to rip the tv out the wall.

Really? Wow. Shepard is jjust so damn compelling.

I am just saying that it isn't a stretch to think the bull **** he is referring to is Shepard and the machinations (people he saved renouncing him, even Humanity renouncing him)
If you want, think about it from the Batarian view point, the news is on with a story about the guy who blew up the Alpha relay and about how not only is he going on trial but everyone is renouncing him, then some Human marine gets up and tears the TV from the wall, what do you think he is mad about? Could it be an indication that he supports Shepard in what he did, that he doesn't think that Shepard should pay for his crimes?
I know we may not agree, but I am giving you my viewpoint based on the context and information given in the comic, and my impression of Vega's character is that either he didn't think that anything would come of his actions other than paying the barkeep in his winnings, or he knew that the Batarians would get hostile and chose to do it anyway, either option led to the deaths of two Batarians and reflects on him poorly for varied reasons.

[Inutaisho7996]

Sajuro wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

I'm waiting for the day that the Mass Effect writers come up with something more for a WHOLE RACE OF SENTIENT BEINGS (Batarians) that doesn't consist of "Evil, aggressive, mindlessly violent tool"

There's the sick Batarian, the Batarian Looters, the Batarian on Garrus' squad, and even some of the Mercs
If I were in the Batarian's positions (a Batarian special forces blew up a relay and wiped out a human colony) I would be pretty pissed off too at people who thought they were so much better than me.
I really think it is just that BSN has failed to get the message that not all Batarians are evil and every example of a decent Batarian is dismissed while the Batarians attacking humans get multiple threads about them about how Batarians are evil (Gerbner's mean world theory applies to video games as well)
Damn, I could hug all of you guys right about now

This is the same way I feel. I view batarians the same way I view North Koreans. Sure their government is evil, but that doesn't mean every one of them is.

[Confused-Shepard]

Seriously, what is wrong with Vega? If you hear something on the television that is offensive to you and you don't like it, then you turn it off not react violently and rip it off the wall, destroying it. Does he have any deep psychological issues? Insanity? Emotional instability?

Gee thanks Bioware, or giving us a testosterone fueled gorilla who has the mentality of the Incredible Hulk.
Not to mention even though I hate Batarians, they were somewhat justified in attacking him.
I don't want a guy who is incapable of understanding a powder-keg situation in my team.
I don't want a guy who randomly attacks **** just because he doesn't like it.

Go Vega! A bastion of common sense and maturity

Modifié par Confused-Shepard, 18 septembre 2011 - 07:36 .

[marshalleck]

Inutaisho7996 wrote...

This is the same way I feel. I view batarians the same way I view North Koreans. Sure their government is evil, but that doesn't mean every one of them is.

Hardly anyone contends that point. The argument is, we're never shown* those batarians that break the mould. 

Sure, you can read about them here and there, and Marsh the shopkeeper is about as neutral as it gets, but he's still standoffish with Shepard. 

*opportunity to interact with firsthand

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 septembre 2011 - 07:37 .

[Confused-Shepard]

I think Bioware is trying to give us a RARGH! I AM MANLY MACHO MAN type character
But Vega seems to be more like a parody of one.

[Homebound]

marshalleck wrote...

Inutaisho7996 wrote...

This is the same way I feel. I view batarians the same way I view North Koreans. Sure their government is evil, but that doesn't mean every one of them is.

Hardly anyone contends that point. The argument is, we're never shown* those batarians that break the mould. 

Sure, you can read about them here and there, and Marsh the shopkeeper is about as neutral as it gets, but he's still standoffish with Shepard. 

*opportunity to interact with firsthand

slavery is part of their culture and their government has defended it at some point.