44 réponses à ce sujet

[SweetiePea]

Has anyone else caught this?

After fighting Loghain in the Landsmeet, Riordan proposes that your PC consider making Loghain a Grey Warden.  Anora chimes in by saying something about how it's possible to die during the Joining, and that your PC could consider this punishment.  Um, when did Anora become a Grey Warden?  Shortly thereafter, your PC, Alistair, and Riordan talk about how a Grey Warden must sacrifice him/herself in order to kill an archdemon.  You have the option to ask Riordan why this is a secret, and he tells your PC it's for the same reason that the Joining is a secret.

Ooops! 

[The Capital Gaultier]

Good catch. That is an interesting point you make.



Probably easy to retcon, but I don't think it was intentional.

[Nyaore]

Maybe Anora has a secret network of ninja organizations who funnel information to her about anything and everything in the world...?

I agree though, good catch.

[sylkwyrm1]

yeah, jory deveth and yourself didn't know it was possibly fatal. i believe cailans mother was a warden perhaps it came up as pillow talk with maric and he told loghain/anora for whatever reason, who knows i'm just stirring my barrel of plot-hole-filler (i go through this stuff at a rediculous rate)

Modifié par sylkwyrm1, 22 novembre 2009 - 02:35 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Cailan's mother was not a Warden.



There are many ways in which a queen could learn about Warden lore, however. I wouldn't call this a plothole.

[Vormaerin]

I don't think its a secret that some fail to survive the Joining. Its a secret why.

[Dalereth]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Cailan's mother was not a Warden.

There are many ways in which a queen could learn about Warden lore, however. I wouldn't call this a plothole.

Alistair's mother, he means. His point stands.

[frokenscheim]

Wow, you're right; that didn't occur to me.



But then Anora isn't exactly the average inhabitant of Ferelden, it's conceivable that she might have knowledge of something as secret as the joining.

[Red Viking]

Yeah, I noticed that too. How does she know such a closely guarded secret about The Joining and why did she just blurt it out so everyone can hear?

[The Capital Gaultier]

Red Viking wrote...

Yeah, I noticed that too. How does she know such a closely guarded secret about The Joining and why did she just blurt it out so everyone can hear?

I took the blurting out to be a part of her character.  She may be cunning, but she's not very wise.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Dalereth wrote...

Alistair's mother, he means. His point stands.

Alistair's mother is not a Warden either... Unless the codex entries are wrong and inconsistencies with the lore are present.

[Dalereth]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Dalereth wrote...

Alistair's mother, he means. His point stands.

Alistair's mother is not a Warden either... Unless the codex entries are wrong and inconsistencies with the lore are present.

I don't want to spoil anything unnecessarily, but check out the prequel novels, specifically "The Calling" in this case.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Dalereth wrote...

I don't want to spoil anything unnecessarily, but check out the prequel novels, specifically "The Calling" in this case.

*sigh* I've read The Calling. The lore in game is not consistent with The Calling. Either Alistair is not Fiona's son, or the codex in game is inconsistent.

[krystalevenstar]

David Gaider has posted elsewhere that you shouldn't think the codex is infallible; it's based on what you learn from other characters and what they believe to be true, not necessarily if it is or isn't actually the truth.

Edit; I hadn't really noticed the inconsistency there with Anora though. I'd chalk it up to being Queen and having access to information that others wouldn't necessarily have.

Modifié par krystalevenstar, 22 novembre 2009 - 02:56 .

[Dalereth]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Dalereth wrote...

I don't want to spoil anything unnecessarily, but check out the prequel novels, specifically "The Calling" in this case.

*sigh* I've read The Calling. The lore in game is not consistent with The Calling. Either Alistair is not Fiona's son, or the codex in game is inconsistent.

Fair enough, I hadn't noticed that. I think you're right to be suspicious of the Codex, otherwise that's a whole lot of talk about heirs to the throne without mention of another. It also seems utterly pointless to conclude The Calling the way he did unless it had some relevence for the game.

In any case I hope my comments this time aren't so frustrating as to cause another sigh. I'm not sure I can take another.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

David Gaider also posts 90% of the time that he won't answer either way and that we're "free to speculate."

So, yeah, maybe the codex is full of lies. We don't know that, though.

Dalereth wrote...

In any case I hope my comments this
time aren't so frustrating as to cause another sigh. I'm not sure I can
take another.

The sigh wasn't directed at you, more at life in general, which has proven stressful these last few hours.
My apologies.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 22 novembre 2009 - 02:57 .

[sylkwyrm1]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Red Viking wrote...

Yeah, I noticed that too. How does she know such a closely guarded secret about The Joining and why did she just blurt it out so everyone can hear?

I took the blurting out to be a part of her character.  She may be cunning, but she's not very wise.

and also, what does she care about the secret when her fathers life is at stake?

[ununretro]

krystalevenstar wrote...

Edit; I hadn't really noticed the inconsistency there with Anora though. I'd chalk it up to being Queen and having access to information that others wouldn't necessarily have.

Although she does blurt it out in front of a lot of people at the Landsmeet, so either a) the nobles already know (for the same reason; privilege and access), it's a plot hole, or c) she just exposed some very sensistive information about the Grey Wardens.

[Nosuchluck]

Well I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination for people to know the joining can be deadly. I mean when new Grey Warden's go and do the ritual and don't come back out, don't you think people would get the idea that it's not a walk in the park? They might not know about the Archdemon blood but that doesn't mean they don't know it's dangerous.

[Dalereth]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
The sigh wasn't directed at you, more at life in general, which has proven stressful these last few hours.
My apologies.

No harm done - no worries at all!

Well I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination for people to know the joining can be deadly. I mean when new Grey Warden's go and do the ritual and don't come back out, don't you think people would get the idea that it's not a walk in the park? They might not know about the Archdemon blood but that doesn't mean they don't know it's dangerous.

I can't recall, but is knowledge of the joining itself common? Whether it's deadly or not aside, isn't its existence a secret? I haven't paid close attention to it, but was left with the impression that it was a closely kept secret. *shrug*

[Kyrish]

As far as I have gathered from the books and the game is that the results of the joining are not secret in the least. The taking into you the Darkspawn taint by drinking their blood is. Even just walking around Ostagar before the fight it is easily gathered that the joining is a dangerous thing and your dialogue options can include speaking about how worried you are about it.



**** Calling Spoilers ****





















As for the contradiction in the Codex with Alistair, as was said, it represents the 'public' information you ascertain through your journeys. The public (loosely used) information of Alistair is what he was told. What he was told, however, was a fabrication that Maric promised to do for Fiona. She didnt want Alistair or, more importantly, others to know that his mother was an elf (or mage) for fear of his future treatment.



At least thats my take on the information.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

The Calling Spoilers:





See, I don't buy that Alistair's story is just "misinformation" because I'm pretty sure Loghain himself says in camp that Alistair was hidden from Rowan. Now, since it's from Loghain's mouth, either he's flat-out lying to the PC because he knows Rowan was dead before Fiona's baby is born, or he's referring to another baby. That, or the codex is simply *wrong* and not misinformation based on the player's interpretation.

[sylkwyrm1]

so goldigger wasn't even his sister? hah! i won't even care that she's apparently left penniless after alistair becomes king regardless of his promises

[Kyrish]

Now that I have no explanation for. I didn't hit that line of dialogue with Loghain and Fiona's child was definitely post-Rowan.



But I've seen very very little information on the period between the two books. So it is possible Maric just can't control himself and hes got heir's all over Fereldan.

[Maric Theirin]

Right. Alistair was raised by Eamon because Eamon's sister (Rowan) was the Queen and he wanted to keep Alistair from her. Why would he worry about keeping him from her if she was dead. She died before The Calling