44 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

It's not just the codex. If Alistiar is Fiona's son than everything we're told about Alistiar in the game (other than he's a royal bastard) from different sources has to be incorrect either because someone is lying or doesn't know the truth.



Loghain, Alistiar, Goldanna, and the Codex and the ending to The Calling (where Fiona runs of to Orlais) all have to be wrong. Moreover, despite looking Calian's age, Alistiar would have to be ~8 years younger than the man.

[Eonassassin]

SweetiePea wrote...

Has anyone else caught this?

After fighting Loghain in the Landsmeet, Riordan proposes that your PC consider making Loghain a Grey Warden.  Anora chimes in by saying something about how it's possible to die during the Joining, and that your PC could consider this punishment.  Um, when did Anora become a Grey Warden?  Shortly thereafter, your PC, Alistair, and Riordan talk about how a Grey Warden must sacrifice him/herself in order to kill an archdemon.  You have the option to ask Riordan why this is a secret, and he tells your PC it's for the same reason that the Joining is a secret.

Ooops! 

Well the Gray Warden HQ was in denerim and Loghain takes over it and steals all the gray warden information. I figure they would know all the secrets of the joining if they took over the HQ

[Dalereth]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It's not just the codex. If Alistiar is Fiona's son than everything we're told about Alistiar in the game (other than he's a royal bastard) from different sources has to be incorrect either because someone is lying or doesn't know the truth.

Loghain, Alistiar, Goldanna, and the Codex and the ending to The Calling (where Fiona runs of to Orlais) all have to be wrong. Moreover, despite looking Calian's age, Alistiar would have to be ~8 years younger than the man.

Some good points.

I have to admit I'd be disappointed if Alistair weren't Fiona's son. It makes the prequels seem less important. I was already disappointed that the calling (no caps intentional) wasn't important at all to the game. Obviously it wouldn't work well in the PC or Alistair's case, but I imagined a bigger role for Duncan in this context (again, timing probably isn't right, if closer). I figured that by Gaider setting up some Darkspawn as living, thinking beings that it would have some relevence to the story of the game, but instead the Darkspawn remained voiceless monsters that you never converse with.

I mean, the Architect's plan, or remnants of it, would have made for a much more compelling story than a simple monster invasion. Anyway, I realize I'm griping and shouldn't. Everyone wants different things and the writers can't appease all!

And sorry that this thread has been partially hijacked!

[Kyrellic]

Demonize the Darkspawn, make them mindless "monsters", and then flip it on its head. Not everyone reads the novels, so a game relying on you having read them would be flawed.

[Niten Ryu]

I don't think it's a plot hole as everyone seem to know more about Gray Wardens then players character (and those two unfortunate initiates at the beginning). These "secret" organizations like Gray Wardens, Jedies, really like their little games.

[SeanMurphy2]

You have to remember that Cailan was a huge Grey Warden fanboy. Anora probably had to listen to Cailan talk endlessly about the Grey Wardens and how great they were.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 22 novembre 2009 - 05:33 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

You have to remember that Cailan was a huge Grey Warden fanboy. Anora probably had to listen to Cailan talk endlessly about the Grey Wardens and how great they were.

I bet Cailan even made her role play a Grey Warden in the bedroom.

[Unbroken Lineage]

She's crafty, that's all.

[Maria Caliban]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

You have to remember that Cailan was a huge Grey Warden fanboy. Anora probably had to listen to Cailan talk endlessly about the Grey Wardens and how great they were.

I bet Cailan even made her role play a Grey Warden in the bedroom.

No, she was the archdemon.

Cailan: Ha! The road to get here was long and rough, but now I have you tied down evil archdemon.
Anora: *sigh*
Cailan: Oh, don't be like that. You said you would play along.
Anora: Okay -- GRRR! You will never defeat me grrr for I am the mighty archdemon.
Cailan: No, for the Grey Wardens always triumph and you face my sword of truthiness! *whip out sword*
Anora: Oh no! Whatever shall I do?!
Cailan: *proceeds to impale her* Take that! And THAT... and maybe some of this!
Anora: The great Grey Warden has bested me. I am defeated. All hail the Grey Wardens.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Solid. Gold.

[Zenocrate]

5 live people go to the joining at Ostagar, 3 leave on their own feet, and someone has to bury the bodies, not to mention tell the deceased's loved ones.



If nothing else, rumors would abound that the joining is deadly. We've all seen how paranoid some of the characters in DA are.

[Dezhem]

Good catch. However, as mentioned, Anora isn't exactly your typical commoner, so it's not TOO surprising that the royalty of Ferelden would know about the secrets of the Grey Wardens. A minor point, one that can be dismissed quite easily.

[Dark83]

Hm. Neither Jory nor Daveh knew about the Joining ritual until they got there, did they?

[kesayo2]

That the joining is often fatal can't really be a secret. When people go through the joining and are never heard from again, you can't really keep it a secret as other posters have mentioned.
I think that most people assume that the joining is some sort of test like going into the woods and fighting some darkspawn and coming out alive. It's possible that Anora doesn't know about the drinking blood part. She only knows that many people sign up, but never return.

The secret part I think is the drinking of blood. Most people would'nt mind tests where they have a fighting chance because people who sign up to be a warden are probably confident in their fighting abilities. But if you told them that they have to drink darkspawn blood and the chances that you will live are random and have nothing to do with your fighting ability, most people wouldn't want to sign up.

Modifié par kesayo2, 22 novembre 2009 - 07:40 .

[Serogon]

It's not really a plot hole, since you can clearly tell from Ostagar and the obvious "what do people think when people don't come back from the joining?" that it's common knowledge that the Joining is dangerous. She didn't say "Hey, maybe he'll die from drinking that darkspawn blood!". She just said he might die.

[Dalereth]

Kyrellic wrote...

Demonize the Darkspawn, make them mindless "monsters", and then flip it on its head. Not everyone reads the novels, so a game relying on you having read them would be flawed.

I said nothing about flipping it on its head. It's about adding more complexity. In this case the complexity comes from the internal political strife in Ferelden, but there's certainly another story waiting to be told (several, no doubt).

[Onyx Jaguar]

Since most of the witnesses died at Ostagar. Unless Loghain and his troops found out about the deaths. Which then again is possible.

[Original182]

Very good observation of the plothole.

[HoLyEmperor]

Zenocrate wrote...

5 live people go to the joining at Ostagar, 3 leave on their own feet, and someone has to bury the bodies, not to mention tell the deceased's loved ones.

If nothing else, rumors would abound that the joining is deadly. We've all seen how paranoid some of the characters in DA are.

And Loghain is standing not 100 yards away during all of that.  He may be a lot of things, but dumb isn't one of them.

[HoLyEmperor]

double post.  delete.

Modifié par HoLyEmperor, 23 novembre 2009 - 07:43 .