852 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

jeweledleah wrote...
@ Knight of Phoenix - romancing someone changes the dialogue with them outside of romance.  sometimes, other characters comment on it.  its especialy prevalent in DA, not so much in ME, but it still shows up there.  romances, go a little beyond the wam bam thank you maam

Of course, but that doens't affect the game in anything more than superficialities. I played DA:O without romancing anyone, and while my experience was in some ways different, the game was the same. The lack of romance did not affect it in any major way.

And what Geralt and Triss have goes beyond the wam bam too, if one wants to.

[Giggles_Manically]

I found the "sex scenes" to be porn scenes with terrible dialouge and terrible VO surrounding them.

I was more embarrassed then aroused truth be told.
Embarrassed that someone found this "hot".

Yeah no it was grade A pathetic ****** fodder.

[slimgrin]

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, pretty much this. I saw the clip of the "pool" scene, as well as the clip of Geralt and Triss waking up in the tent. You see ALL of Triss, every inch of her stripper's body. The camera lingers over her curves, and you can practically hear the "cameraman" masturbating. Do you ever see Geralt's weiner? NOPE. Not that I'd want to, but it would make the pandering at least somewhat equitable. He's even wearing PANTS in the tent scene, if I remember correctly. In the pool scene, Triss' clothes magically disappear as the camera tracks over her assets, and then she and Geralt do it doggie style. Woohoo, that's character development folks.

It's not meant to be character development, it's meant to be sex between freinds. Why does Sex have to equal romance? It doesn't. And showing Geralt's legendary third sword is not going to happen.

[Dragoonlordz]

Siansonea II wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

That is bullsh*t Sian and you know it. As if adults can't enjoy sex without feeling like naughty little boys and girls...seriously this prudery has to stop.  What the hell do you think sex is really like? It's not armor humping or fade to black, it's much like what TW2 shows it to be.

I think Sian is arguing agains people claiming Witcher 2 romance scenes are very mature and real. Its not because there is sex in it. Its more because that the sex is more pandering to males since you only see a fully nude female instead of a male. Hell ME1 seems to have done it perfectly. It didn't show much nudity but it did show what they were doing. That is how it sould be.

Except Geralt is naked in the sex scenes. We don't need to start down the 'nudity is automatically pandering' road.

And I think a lot of folks here need to realize everyone's concept of romance is different. I'd take TW's romance any day over the PG 13 dry humping nonsense Bioware doles out.

Yeah, yeah, we see Geralt's bare hips. There may even be a butt shot, I don't remember. But I do remember the long, lingering shots of Triss' stripper-sized gravity-defying boobs, her perfectly waxed landing strip, and her ample bottom. As I'm sure does everyone who's ever seen the clips. Nudity isn't automatically pandering, I agree with that. But this example IS pandering with a capital P. Underlined and bolded. Probably even italic as well.

http://social.biowar...2271/12#8346865

Do I think Mass Effect 2's scenes are the way to go? No. But do I think the Witcher 2's take is better? NO. I'm not a prude, I'm not a virgin, I know what sex and what sex isn't. And Witcher 2's take on sex is SILLY. I get it.

I don't think you do 'get it' if you think it is silly. It is not silly to understand if a game has sexual relationships that there is sexual scenes, it is an adult game there is no resaon to hide the reality of sex behind a smoke screen. It doesn't have to be hardcore but it certainly doesn't need to be all completley left up to the imagination either. It wasn't hardcore porn or there to make you 'hard' it was there as a method of treating the audience as mature enough to handle more than a fully clothed dry hump fit or black screen for the screamish it shows more the reality of a relationship and life in general especially of a man who fights every day to see the next sunrise that what affection he can get because his next day might be his last. The sex scenes showed nudity and flashes of sexual nature with audio to imply the rest but there was no hardcore porn.

I would take TW2 sexual scenes over ME's any day and no it doesn't get my hard because I am an adult and know the difference between a real life women and a virtual fictional one in a game. But showing more of the reality gets my respect more than hiding it away out of fear of being branded publically badly again like ME1 cause ME2 to cover up more in first place.

Bioware doesn't do sexual relationships just romantic ones. Though due to nature of relationships do include sex they do make a small attempt at it in games but scared of repercussions they stick with 99% romance 1% sexual aspect of romance and relationships.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:18 .

[jeweledleah]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
@ Knight of Phoenix - romancing someone changes the dialogue with them outside of romance.  sometimes, other characters comment on it.  its especialy prevalent in DA, not so much in ME, but it still shows up there.  romances, go a little beyond the wam bam thank you maam

Of course, but that doens't affect the game in anything more than superficialities. I played DA:O without romancing anyone, and while my experience was in some ways different, the game was the same. The lack of romance did not affect it in any major way.

And what Geralt and Triss have goes beyond the wam bam too, if one wants to.

it still affects the game though.  what exactly do all those hookups Geralt can go for accomplish? and yes, what Gerals and Triss can have can go beyond wam bam, but is it accoplished through extended sex scenes?  or dialogue choices?

[Siansonea]

slimgrin wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

I think that is exactly the point many people (including myself) have been trying to make. I don't have any problem with sex scenes, as long as it contributes to something.

That is what I have been trying to point out. Many gamers don't feel that sex scenes need to contribute to anything at all.

Well...I mangled this post.

Well, I'm of the mind that if it doesn't contribute to character development or story, then it doesn't really need to be in the game. I'm not offended by erotica, I don't care for it one way or the other, but I'm not offended by it. But people who want that can have that whenever they want. I don't want it in my game, because it's just silly and tiresome. I can't think of anything LESS sexy than watching two digital characters simulate sexual activity. It's ludicrous. Some romantic banter, some nudity, some kissing, etc., that's fine, that shows the characters getting to another level in their relationship. I don't need the "money shot" to understand the story significance of the interaction.

[Complistic]

Successful thread was successful.

[Marionetten]

Lilunebrium wrote...

Watching the video in the opening post gave me the feeling that scene was added purely for the heck of it.

I'm sure you'd get the same impression if you watched the scene with Daenerys getting slammed from behind without knowing anything about A Song of Ice and Fire. It's certainly far more graphic in nature than anything found in The Witcher 2 or Mass Effect. That said, a lot of the sex in The Witcher is for the hell of it just like in the real world and Martin's own universe and I honestly see nothing wrong with that. A lot of BioWare titles come loaded with brothels for pointless sexcapades. I guess I'm just not seeing the problem here as the content is already there. Just in censored form and being the puritan I am I absolutely despise any form of censoring. That's what it boils down to for me. Imagine if all the sex scenes in Martin's books had been been censored. Would you really argue that it wouldn't have been detrimental to the quality of the product?

jeweledleah wrote...

see - R R Martins sex scenes actualy do play a role in the story.  not just Daenerys either.  but in witcher?  its more of the requisit James Bond scene - it adds nothing, but toots at how virile the hero is.  ok.  we get it.

I'd strongly recommend actually playing the game before making such accusations. A lot of the sex in The Witcher 2 certainly was pointless but Triss doesn't fall under this. Also, Geralt is infertile.

Modifié par Marionetten, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:15 .

[Siansonea]

slimgrin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, pretty much this. I saw the clip of the "pool" scene, as well as the clip of Geralt and Triss waking up in the tent. You see ALL of Triss, every inch of her stripper's body. The camera lingers over her curves, and you can practically hear the "cameraman" masturbating. Do you ever see Geralt's weiner? NOPE. Not that I'd want to, but it would make the pandering at least somewhat equitable. He's even wearing PANTS in the tent scene, if I remember correctly. In the pool scene, Triss' clothes magically disappear as the camera tracks over her assets, and then she and Geralt do it doggie style. Woohoo, that's character development folks.

It's not meant to be character development, it's meant to be sex between freinds. Why does Sex have to equal romance? It doesn't. And showing Geralt's legendary third sword is not going to happen.

And what's the point of sitting there watching these two digital avatars get it on? And on and on and on? Why devote so much time and digital resources to these extended scenes? There's no gameplay, it's just a long cutscene with no input from the player. What's the POINT?

[Complistic]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I found the "sex scenes" to be porn scenes with terrible dialouge and terrible VO surrounding them.

I was more embarrassed then aroused truth be told.
Embarrassed that someone found this "hot".

Yeah no it was grade A pathetic ****** fodder.

Who's talking about ****** to it? Do you wip yours out during sex scenes in the movie theatre?

edit: I find it funnier that this thread isn't locked yet. Gotta be a weekend.

Modifié par Complistic, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:20 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

jeweledleah wrote...
it still affects the game though.  what exactly do all those hookups Geralt can go for accomplish? and yes, what Gerals and Triss can have can go beyond wam bam, but is it accoplished through extended sex scenes?  or dialogue choices?

You keep saying that, but how does it affect it barring a few lines of dialogue different? Do we get a different quest? Does the story change? No.
And both Hawke and the warden can have hookups. Shepard can with the Consort. They lead to nowhere either.

I personally am not defending the presence of the sex scene, its presence or absence is not that relevent to me. The scenery was nice, I can say that much. And the  cutscene was funny, with the dwarf at the ending. I'd much rather have that, than ME2 or especially DA:O. The highlight of the romance, if one wishes to pursue it, imo, is right before and after that scene. And even then, it's average, but I wouldn't expect anything more from Geralt and I like it that way.

Ideally, I prefer ME1's style, in terms of sex.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:21 .

[yoshibb]

Marionetten wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

Mass Effect's romance scene was perfect. It was tasteful, sweet, and was built around character. That was romance. None of this nudity just for the hell of it crap.

Yes, because sideboobs and ass shots are so much more romantic. Did any of you actually play Mass Effect? Here's the Liara sex scene. And guess what, you barely get a peek at Manshep as he's constantly obscured by Liara's squirming body! How is that not pandering to the peanut gallery again?

I don't know how you can't see the difference between the two scenes. Did you miss the whole conversation before hand? The slow build up through whole entire game until that scene? Even then in the end, Shepard made sure Liara was ok with going to bed with him. Then the scene itself is played in flashes. No prolonged looks at breasts. There's a focus on the eyes and the simultaneous movement between to people in love. 

The Witcher scene is him staring her down like a piece of meat, give her some corny line and then we get a long stripping scene. No emotional build up, no connection between two characters, just pure gratification of sex.

It's like comparing a romantic movie to a porn video. 

[jeweledleah]

Marionetten wrote...

Lilunebrium wrote...

Watching the video in the opening post gave me the feeling that scene was added purely for the heck of it.

I'm sure you'd get the same impression if you watched the scene with Daenerys getting slammed from behind without knowing anything about A Song of Ice and Fire. It's certainly far more graphic in nature than anything found in The Witcher 2 or Mass Effect. That said, a lot of the sex in The Witcher is for the hell of it just like in the real world and Martin's own universe and I honestly see nothing wrong with that. A lot of BioWare titles come loaded with brothels for pointless sexcapades. I guess I'm just not seeing the problem here as the content is already there. Just in censored form and being the puritan I am I absolutely despise any form of censoring. That's what it boils down to for me. Imagine if all the sex scenes in Martin's books had been been censored. Would you really argue that it wouldn't have been detrimental to the quality of the product?

jeweledleah wrote...

see - R R Martins sex scenes actualy do play a role in the story.  not just Daenerys either.  but in witcher?  its more of the requisit James Bond scene - it adds nothing, but toots at how virile the hero is.  ok.  we get it.

I'd strongly recommend actually playing the game before making such accusations. A lot of the sex in The Witcher 2 certainly was pointless but Triss doesn't fall under this. Also, Geralt is infertile.

sex scenes in Martin's books progress the story.  they are catalysts, relationship changers, story changers.  they have purpose. the ones he explicitly goes for anyways.  it is NOT the same thing as "requisite" sex scene that's just there.  you think those scenes are the only time characters have sex with each other?  ohno.  those scenes are there becasue they have something else to show other then "this people are sexualy active with each other"

virility=/=fertility.  virility is atractiveness to potential mates and ability to act on it.  the more the better.

lastly - the SCENE between Geralt and Triss WAS kinda pointless.  it was not necessary to the progression of their relationship.  they just... boink.  in loving detail >_>

@ KoP existance of relationship changes dynamic between characters.  it might be very slight, just dialogue here and there.  heck, you get the same with Triss via dialogue.  no elaborate sex scene necessary.  and yes you can hook up with a consort and that scene is pretty brief.  its just.. all that detail, all that animation - what is the point of it, if implied sex works just as well for the purpose of saying - they had sex.  I don't see how it makes the game richer or more mature in any way.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:24 .

[Complistic]

yoshibb wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

Mass Effect's romance scene was perfect. It was tasteful, sweet, and was built around character. That was romance. None of this nudity just for the hell of it crap.

Yes, because sideboobs and ass shots are so much more romantic. Did any of you actually play Mass Effect? Here's the Liara sex scene. And guess what, you barely get a peek at Manshep as he's constantly obscured by Liara's squirming body! How is that not pandering to the peanut gallery again?

I don't know how you can't see the difference between the two scenes. Did you miss the whole conversation before hand? The slow build up through whole entire game until that scene? Even then in the end, Shepard made sure Liara was ok with going to bed with him. Then the scene itself is played in flashes. No prolonged looks at breasts. There's a focus on the eyes and the simultaneous movement between to people in love. 

The Witcher scene is him staring her down like a piece of meat, give her some corny line and then we get a long stripping scene. No emotional build up, no connection between two characters, just pure gratification of sex.

It's like comparing a romantic movie to a porn video. 

There's like a 15 minute quest that builds up to that scene, and there's also a 5 minute conversation afterwards. This is like listening to blind people argue about colors. So funny, but sad at the same time.

Modifié par Complistic, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:23 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Siansonea II wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, pretty much this. I saw the clip of the "pool" scene, as well as the clip of Geralt and Triss waking up in the tent. You see ALL of Triss, every inch of her stripper's body. The camera lingers over her curves, and you can practically hear the "cameraman" masturbating. Do you ever see Geralt's weiner? NOPE. Not that I'd want to, but it would make the pandering at least somewhat equitable. He's even wearing PANTS in the tent scene, if I remember correctly. In the pool scene, Triss' clothes magically disappear as the camera tracks over her assets, and then she and Geralt do it doggie style. Woohoo, that's character development folks.

It's not meant to be character development, it's meant to be sex between freinds. Why does Sex have to equal romance? It doesn't. And showing Geralt's legendary third sword is not going to happen.

And what's the point of sitting there watching these two digital avatars get it on? And on and on and on? Why devote so much time and digital resources to these extended scenes? There's no gameplay, it's just a long cutscene with no input from the player. What's the POINT?

Adds immersion. Creates a more believable and realistic character who fights to stay alive day in day out and what little comfort he can get, he takes because it may be his last day any of those days.

[Pedro Costa]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I found the "sex scenes" to be porn scenes with terrible dialouge and terrible VO surrounding them.

I was more embarrassed then aroused truth be told.
Embarrassed that someone found this "hot".

Yeah no it was grade A pathetic ****** fodder.

This. SO MUCH THIS.

[Siansonea]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, pretty much this. I saw the clip of the "pool" scene, as well as the clip of Geralt and Triss waking up in the tent. You see ALL of Triss, every inch of her stripper's body. The camera lingers over her curves, and you can practically hear the "cameraman" masturbating. Do you ever see Geralt's weiner? NOPE. Not that I'd want to, but it would make the pandering at least somewhat equitable. He's even wearing PANTS in the tent scene, if I remember correctly. In the pool scene, Triss' clothes magically disappear as the camera tracks over her assets, and then she and Geralt do it doggie style. Woohoo, that's character development folks.

It's not meant to be character development, it's meant to be sex between freinds. Why does Sex have to equal romance? It doesn't. And showing Geralt's legendary third sword is not going to happen.

And what's the point of sitting there watching these two digital avatars get it on? And on and on and on? Why devote so much time and digital resources to these extended scenes? There's no gameplay, it's just a long cutscene with no input from the player. What's the POINT?

Adds immersion. Creates a more believable and realistic character who fights to stay alive day in day out and what little comfort he can get, he takes because it may be his last day any of those days.

Oh GIVE ME A BREAK. You don't really believe that, and neither do I. Obvious ****** fodder is obvious.

[Kaiser Shepard]

In the end, I think the sexual depravity resulting from (or leading to?) these sorts of romances might have led me to subscribe to Chris Avellone's school of though when it comes to them. Personally I enjoy these "romances" much more when they're not fully requited and/or not consummated, which thankfully can be done rather decently in both Origins and ME2

ME1 made it mighty difficult to avoid romances, though, whereas DA2 didn't have any good ones at all...

[slimgrin]

Siansonea II wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, pretty much this. I saw the clip of the "pool" scene, as well as the clip of Geralt and Triss waking up in the tent. You see ALL of Triss, every inch of her stripper's body. The camera lingers over her curves, and you can practically hear the "cameraman" masturbating. Do you ever see Geralt's weiner? NOPE. Not that I'd want to, but it would make the pandering at least somewhat equitable. He's even wearing PANTS in the tent scene, if I remember correctly. In the pool scene, Triss' clothes magically disappear as the camera tracks over her assets, and then she and Geralt do it doggie style. Woohoo, that's character development folks.

It's not meant to be character development, it's meant to be sex between freinds. Why does Sex have to equal romance? It doesn't. And showing Geralt's legendary third sword is not going to happen.

And what's the point of sitting there watching these two digital avatars get it on? And on and on and on? Why devote so much time and digital resources to these extended scenes? There's no gameplay, it's just a long cutscene with no input from the player. What's the POINT?

The point is it's a culmination of a decision by the player, just like it is in Mass Effect. You can't string a player along with a compelling romance, and then give them a fade to black. That is weak. 

[Omega4RelayResident]

@ Siansonea II

Did you see what you wrote on page 11? My comment addressed that... you feel like poping in an out of a conversation fine... just dont be surpised when people reply to you as I did on page 13... but dont you dare tell me what you said was not wrong... I also in an earlier response to the sexist post I am speaking of told you to please look at page 3 of the thread half way down to see how I argued AGAINST the OP... so I am on your side... except I am not prejudiced to think all men want is T & A.

And yes I dont feel like being lumped into a category consisting of degenerates and pervs as you might put it.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:34 .

[yoshibb]

Complistic wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

Mass Effect's romance scene was perfect. It was tasteful, sweet, and was built around character. That was romance. None of this nudity just for the hell of it crap.

Yes, because sideboobs and ass shots are so much more romantic. Did any of you actually play Mass Effect? Here's the Liara sex scene. And guess what, you barely get a peek at Manshep as he's constantly obscured by Liara's squirming body! How is that not pandering to the peanut gallery again?

I don't know how you can't see the difference between the two scenes. Did you miss the whole conversation before hand? The slow build up through whole entire game until that scene? Even then in the end, Shepard made sure Liara was ok with going to bed with him. Then the scene itself is played in flashes. No prolonged looks at breasts. There's a focus on the eyes and the simultaneous movement between to people in love. 

The Witcher scene is him staring her down like a piece of meat, give her some corny line and then we get a long stripping scene. No emotional build up, no connection between two characters, just pure gratification of sex.

It's like comparing a romantic movie to a porn video. 

There's like a 15 minute quest that builds up to that scene, and there's also a 5 minute conversation afterwards. This is like listening to blind people argue about colors. So funny, but sad at the same time.

Great but the OP gave us a clip with just that scene in it and said "this is what romances in Bioware should be like." Even just looking between the clip with Liara and the clip in the Witcher, there is an obvious difference in tone. 

[1136342t54_]

slimgrin wrote...
The point is it's a culmination of a decision by the player, just like it is in Mass Effect. You can't string a player along with a compelling romance, and then give them a fade to black. That is weak. 

Not really. The actual romance and character is what people (or at least me) like about the romance not the sex scene. Hell people didn't seem to have much of a problem with it for KOTOR.  I don't necessarily get too much enjoyment from the sex scene and would prefer its not necessarily graphic.

[Marionetten]

jeweledleah wrote...

sex scenes in Martin's books progress the story.  they are catalysts, relationship changers, story changers.  they have purpose. the ones he explicitly goes for anyways.  it is NOT the same thing as "requisite" sex scene that's just there.  you think those scenes are the only time characters have sex with each other?  ohno.  those scenes are there becasue they have something else to show other then "this people are sexualy active with each other"

There is a lot of utterly pointless sex in Martin's books. A lot more than you'll find in The Witcher. Then again, pointless sex in itself develops the character. You think Zevran would be Zevran without it?

jeweledleah wrote...

virility=/=fertility.  virility is atractiveness to potential mates and ability to act on it.  the more the better.

Now I don't know which definition you're going by but virility is the state of being virile. The most cruxial aspect of that is having the ability to actually breed. Geralt doesn't. Subsequently he isn't the ultra virile übermenschen you believe the developers wanted him to be. In fact, this is one of the biggest flaws of his character by far. You're comparing that to Space Jesus Shepard and telling me that Geralt comes off as the stereotypical one? Please.

jeweledleah wrote...

lastly - the SCENE between Geralt and Triss WAS kinda pointless.  it was not necessary to the progression of their relationship.  they just... boink.  in loving detail >_>

How was it pointless? The whole game was filled with sexual tension between the two until it exploded in that scene. Then again, I'm talking to someone who didn't even play the game and think he's got the whole idea from watching a couple of youtube videos. That'd be like me watching the Liara video and completely ignoring every single scene leading up to it.

Modifié par Marionetten, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:33 .

[Lilunebrium]

Marionetten wrote...

Lilunebrium wrote...

Watching the video in the opening post gave me the feeling that scene was added purely for the heck of it.

I'm sure you'd get the same impression if you watched the scene with Daenerys getting slammed from behind without knowing anything about A Song of Ice and Fire.

Probably. As I've said before, my opinions on The Witcher should be taken with a grain of salt considering my lack of knowledge. My posts are based on what few video's I've seen and other people's posts. Several of those have explained the scene in question to be absolutely meaningless considering how it's treated as if it didn't happen at all. They may as well have shown Geralt juggling gerbils while Triss does the hula in the background, as I understand.

As I've mentioned in a reaction to slimgrin, I get that sex scenes don't have to be important, don't have to be contributing to anything. Plenty of people have that opinion, I don't have a problem with that at all. It just isn't my opinion.

Marionetten wrote...
Imagine if all the sex scenes in Martin's books had been been censored. Would you really argue that it wouldn't have been detrimental to the quality of the product?

...I really am the only person left who hasn't read Martin's books yet, aren't I?
Anyway, judging solely by the first television season, then yes, most sex scenes (especially Daenarys') do seem to be aimed at character development. At the same time, though, I'm not entirely sure if censoring them, or cutting them out completely even, would have had such a diminishing effect as you claim it would have.