852 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

slimgrin wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Future Guy wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Comparing Sucker Punch to TW2...really?

Out of curiosity, if you were going to compare ME2 and TW2 romances to movies, which ones would you compare?

Witcher games are like Quentin Tarantino movies when it comes to character, and like classical novels for their plot. Mass Effect, at its best, is like Riddley Scott. It's two diffrent approaches. My criticism is with Bioware playing it safe when it come to mature content.

Comparing Witcher to Quentin Tarantino? Really? You realize that's NOT a compliment, right?

I think Tarantino makes good movies. The reason for my assesment is The Witcher is in-your-face and unapologetic about it. It frequently rattles you with harsh/modern dialog and breaks down the fourth wall. It's a welcome change in a genre that is saturated with Tolkein.

This is going to be one of those "agree to disagree" moments, Slimmy. I find Tarantino's movies to be quite juvenile-fantasy and soaked in testosterone. SO not my thing. 

[Dragoonlordz]

Ryzaki wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
I played ME2 6 times, and I have to say, TW2 paraphrasing is much better.

I remember picking something innocent and Geralt said "f*ck off." that was more of a headdesk than Shepard's "I should kill both of you." from "shut up." 

Unless you can remember what you said which warrented such a response of which I don't recall him doing so myself then I don't think I'll trust that actually happened thanks.

[slimgrin]

Ryzaki wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
I played ME2 6 times, and I have to say, TW2 paraphrasing is much better.

I remember picking something innocent and Geralt said "f*ck off." that was more of a headdesk than Shepard's "I should kill both of you." from "shut up." 

 
He was in handcuffs, beaten to a pulp, in prison, and unfairly accused...what do you expect him to say?

"Can I have a lollipop now?"

Modifié par slimgrin, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:00 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...
If it was automatic? I'd find that immersion-breaking and annoying, but if the rest of the game was good enough, I might have an easier time with it.

Then same here. I can tolerate misogyny, if implemented in a setting that is misogynist, while adding nuance and having quite a number of very interesting and strong female characters. One of whom can still look strong and intimidating after being afflicted with horrific torture.

Of course, I won't deny possessing a certain visceral hatred for Witcher because it got dragged out time and again and again and again and again and AGAIN in negative DA2 comparisons, here and in too many other places. But honestly, most of the reason as to why I don't want to play it is because I can't see myself fitting in with the character well, and being genuinely upset that they allowed for no personal customization other than plot decisions. I do feel that this is a weakness.

That's perfectly valid (not the hatred bit, it's irrational), I fail to see why you can't just keep it to that.

[slimgrin]

Siansonea II wrote...

This is going to be one of those "agree to disagree" moments, Slimmy. I find Tarantino's movies to be quite juvenile-fantasy and soaked in testosterone. SO not my thing. 

I understand that. There isn't much middle ground when it comes to Tarantino or The Witcher.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
I played ME2 6 times, and I have to say, TW2 paraphrasing is much better.

I remember picking something innocent and Geralt said "f*ck off." that was more of a headdesk than Shepard's "I should kill both of you." from "shut up." 

Unless you can remember what you said which warrented such a response of which I don't recall him doing so myself then I don't think I'll trust that actually happened thanks.

It was at the very beginning, with Roche and Geralt in the dungeon.
The paraphrase was "very funny", it turned into "**** you". Now I don't know about you, but it doesn't really take a genius to surmise that "very funny" was painfully obvious as sarcasm, when a guy wants to shake hands with another guy that is handcuffed.

But people blow it out of proportion.

[Xilizhra]

Then same here. I can tolerate misogyny, if implemented in a setting that is misogynist, while adding nuance and having quite a number of very interesting and strong female characters. One of whom can still look strong and intimidating after being afflicted with horrific torture.

It's just that it being automatic is sticking in my throat. I mean, in Dragon Age, society is very heavily anti-mage, but I don't need to ever display any of that trait myself.

Edit: Scratch that. Hypocritical is the word I was looking for.

I propose that, considering the context of a misogynistic medieval world, a woman demeaning men in defiance of cultural trends isn't the same thing as a man demeaning women in concordance with cultural trends.

[naledgeborn]

Tarantino has good flicks. Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown to name a couple. He's written some trash too, but the guy (so do I) loves corny Kung-Fu/Blaxploitation flicks from the 70's so he gets a pass.

[Dragoonlordz]

slimgrin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
I played ME2 6 times, and I have to say, TW2 paraphrasing is much better.

I remember picking something innocent and Geralt said "f*ck off." that was more of a headdesk than Shepard's "I should kill both of you." from "shut up." 

 
He was in handcuffs, beaten to a pulp, in prison, and unfairly accused...what do you expect him to say?

"Can I have a lollipop now?"

Ah that time, that was perfectly acceptable to me given the situation.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:14 .

[1136342t54_]

Tarantino doesn't make a lot of good movies. Planet Terror was basically a bad movie. Machete wasn't good but it was funny, had plenty of action and the purpose was for it to be bad lol.

[Omega4RelayResident]

I love how everyone can find a reason to say a woman can objectify men because...

and its accepted by the public like nothing ever happened. This is the kind of garbage that make me want to put a flux capacitor in a Delorian and GTFO of here. Future sounds good right about now.

[addiction21]

1136342t54 wrote...

Tarantino doesn't make a lot of good movies. Planet Terror was basically a bad movie. Machete wasn't good but it was funny, had plenty of action and the purpose was for it to be bad lol.

Neither of those were Tarantino's.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

Then same here. I can tolerate misogyny, if implemented in a setting that is misogynist, while adding nuance and having quite a number of very interesting and strong female characters. One of whom can still look strong and intimidating after being afflicted with horrific torture.

It's just that it being automatic is sticking in my throat. I mean, in Dragon Age, society is very heavily anti-mage, but I don't need to ever display any of that trait myself.

But in TW, you are not yourself (which is at the heart of your disliking). You are playing a character who was raised in a certain environment.

Besides, Geralt never said anything gravely misogynistic, he is sufficiently experienced enough to know that some women can kick his ass. And if Geralt decides to be cavaliere with Ves in a duel and make himself lose, she'd berate him about it.

What he did that I remember, was him joking: "a woman leader, now we've seen everything" (it wasn't serious or malevolent, he can fight side by side with her). Because he was raised in an environment where women do not assume political leadership officially (but behind the scenes), so it's pretty unusual.

The real misogynist is Dandelion, the poet.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:11 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

1136342t54 wrote...

Tarantino doesn't make a lot of good movies. Planet Terror was basically a bad movie. Machete wasn't good but it was funny, had plenty of action and the purpose was for it to be bad lol.

Hey I liked Death Proof that was awesome. I think Robert Rodrigues did Planet Terror I could be wrong though.

[Ryzaki]

slimgrin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
I played ME2 6 times, and I have to say, TW2 paraphrasing is much better.

I remember picking something innocent and Geralt said "f*ck off." that was more of a headdesk than Shepard's "I should kill both of you." from "shut up." 

 
He was in handcuffs, beaten to a pulp, in prison, and unfairly accused...what do you expect him to say?

"Can I have a lollipop now?"

No I expected him to say something sarcastic like I picked. 

Horror of horrors. 

How foolish of me to assume a paraphrase should be in a similar tone to what the character says! 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:14 .

[jlb524]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

I love how everyone can find a reason to say a woman can objectify men because...
 

The point is that it's not a one-to-one comparison in this setting, given the playing field is uneven to begin with.  Context is always important.

I don't think anyone is condoning the objectification of men, though.

[Xilizhra]

But in TW, you are not yourself. You are a character who was raised in a certain environment.

As I am in all Bioware games, but I need never let the circumstances of where I was raised dictate my actions there. Of course, I get to choose sex/orientation there too, so I suppose it's reasonable that I'm scuppered here.

Besides, Geralt never said anything misogynist, he is sufficiently experienced enough to know that some women can kick his ass. And if Geralt decides to be cavaliere with Ves in a duel and make himself lose, she'd berate him about it.

Didn't you mention some kind of "women, eh?" line?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...
As I am in all Bioware games, but I need never let the circumstances of where I was raised dictate my actions there. Of course, I get to choose sex/orientation there too, so I suppose it's reasonable that I'm scuppered here.

The way you act, I start thinking that you believe you are playing Hawke as an avatar. But I might be misinterpretting. 

Didn't you mention some kind of "women, eh?" line?

Yes I just said it, the "women leader, eh?" thing, which he threw as a joke more or less. He can still fight for her and believe in what she is doing.

EDIT: he also could say to Ves that he is surprised someone as pretty as her is in the army, but that's optional. And he'd get her angry.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:14 .

[Xilizhra]

The way you act, I start thinking that you believe you are playing Hawke as an avatar. But I might be misinterpretting.

It's actually closer to the other way around; Hawke inflamed me.

Well, my mage one. My rogue one never wanted to get involved in all this, which is why she's not more proactive (the mage one I see as being largely hampered by external events which I admittedly had to make up myself, or not wanting to destroy potential resources).

[Volus Warlord]

This is my general view of how the fanbase reacts to romance, and probably how ME3 will handle them:

[KnightofPhoenix]

jlb524 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

I love how everyone can find a reason to say a woman can objectify men because...
 

The point is that it's not a one-to-one comparison in this setting, given the playing field is uneven to begin with.  Context is always important.

Hence why, in a misogynist setting, misogynist comments should show up. Context is indeed important.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

I love how everyone can find a reason to say a woman can objectify men because...
 

The point is that it's not a one-to-one comparison in this setting, given the playing field is uneven to begin with.  Context is always important.

Hence why, in a misogynist setting, misogynist comments should show up. Context is indeed important.

True which is one of the reasons I wasn't too into the Witcher. Too many comments too similar to what I've heard already. I play games to be entertained. I would not however say such a game was wrong or bad or immature for doing something I don't like. Just different and realistic for it's setting. Same with Dragon Age. 

I would however appreciate them staying to their own sides of the fence. I don't like the Witcher and I don't want it to be more like ME so I could like it. It's the Witcher. It should stay the Witcher. I like Mass Effect and I sure in hell don't want it like the Witcher so I end up hating it. It's Mass Effect. It should stay as such. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:21 .

[1136342t54_]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Tarantino doesn't make a lot of good movies. Planet Terror was basically a bad movie. Machete wasn't good but it was funny, had plenty of action and the purpose was for it to be bad lol.

Hey I liked Death Proof that was awesome. I think Robert Rodrigues did Planet Terror I could be wrong though.

Yeah I think it was Robert.