852 réponses à ce sujet

[RAF1940]

To be honest, I think a small minority of ME players actually care about the romances.

I know around 10 other people who play ME (IRL). Only 2 of them even knew there were romances in the game, and only one of them romanced someone (Miranda).

Modifié par RAF1940, 18 septembre 2011 - 04:22 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...
True which is one of the reasons I wasn't too into the Witcher. Too many comments too similar to what I've heard already. I play games to be entertained. I would not however say such a game was wrong or bad or immature for doing something I don't like. Just different and realistic for it's setting. Same with Dragon Age. 

Indeed. I'd consider TW to be more mature than its Bioware counterparts, but its setting being misogynist is not part of the reason (though it adds flavour and it would be interesting to see if the setting evolves in some fashion), nor is nudity, sex, cursing...etc



Oh and

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:23 .

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Indeed. I'd consider TW to be more mature than it's Bioware counterparts, but its setting being misogynist is not part of the reason (though it adds flavour and it would be interesting to see if the setting evolves in some fashion). 
Oh and 

 

Death Note is more mature than both.  ...until that lame ending at least. <_< I like to pretend the series ended at episode 25 and volume 7. (and I'm totally not bias or anything :innocent: ) 

 back at ya. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:25 .

[A Great Biotic Wind]

I just cam from imagining this in ME.

[Chromie]

Ryzaki wrote..
Death Note is more mature than both.  ...until that lame ending at least. <_< I like to pretend the series ended at episode 25 and volume 7. 

 back at ya. 

Mushi-shi is more mature than Death Note.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ringo12 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote..
Death Note is more mature than both.  ...until that lame ending at least. <_< I like to pretend the series ended at episode 25 and volume 7. 

 back at ya. 

Mushi-shi is more mature than Death Note.

...Dragon Ball Z is more mature than both?....

Yea Vegeta was an interesting character!

[Ryzaki]

Ringo12 wrote...

Mushi-shi is more mature than Death Note.

Never heard of it. What's it about? Is it similar to Monster? 

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

...Dragon Ball Z is more mature than both?....

Yea Vegeta was an interesting character!

...You *want* me to kick you? 

Vegeta was awesome though. 

No one beats L. No one. And dat voice.  So sexy L was.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:29 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Dragon Ball Z is more mature than both?....

Yea Vegeta was an interesting character!

...You *want* me to kick you? 

What's wrong with Vegeta and his totally not ******-erotic obsession with Kakarot?

[Omega4RelayResident]

jlb524 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

I love how everyone can find a reason to say a woman can objectify men because...
 

The point is that it's not a one-to-one comparison in this setting, given the playing field is uneven to begin with.  Context is always important.

I don't think anyone is condoning the objectification of men, though.

Well I have seen plenty of movies and shows where in some form or another a female character cheats on her husband / boyfriend... whatever... or wrongs him in some way shape or form... and the right thing for him to do is to forgive her. There are exceptions to this rule but I have seen more than enough of this to make this the rule though.

It paints this horrid picture that at some point we lose our will, comfidence, and our ability to stand up for ourselves. I cant even see a guy like that as human anymore... it feels like he lost his soul and has become an empty shell of what he use to be.

Then you have open objectification of women. Like in the game we are talking about it honestly seems the main character just happens to get chances to add notches to his bedpost. The comparison is correct because I was looking through the youtube videos and nothing he said was genuine or heartfelt. This kinda crap makes me hate my own gender... but I know there are still plenty of good guys out there that have a lot to offer emotionally.

Shepard's character unlike the main character of the Witcher... attempts to trully get to know someone. Granted this is a game and it can be manipulated. Even still Shep... either male or female... makes the attempt at love. One of my good friends doesnt believe in love and she thinks its a weakness. I always told her I pitty her for feeling this way. Love is worth it even if it doesnt last. Its an incredible state of being... being in love. I have been with my G/F for almost 3 years now and I only feel it growing more powerfull... rahter than slowly dwindling away like my friend thinks it would happen. She has a right to feel that way.

Its just even on these forums sometimes people go a little overboard with their personal feelings towards a specific topic. It can be hurtfull. I believe in true equality... where no one is the lesser... this is what Gloria Steinam worked all her life for... and even she publically denounces sexism being diguised as being harmless no mater who it comes from... male or female.

Dont mean to sound all gushy and all but it makes me sad to see that there is something inherent in humanity that we cant just actually accept each other for who we are. I am a big George Carlin fan and his comedy did so much to get people out of their politically correct shells and laugh that it brought them all together in a sense of unity.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
What's wrong with Vegeta and his totally not ******-erotic obsession with Kakarot?

Disturbingly enough I think VegetaxGoku was the first anime slash I ever read. 

...It was a Mpreg.  

[naledgeborn]

No no no. You guys have it all wrong. The series was about  Piccolo but Toriyama was pressured into making Goku the hero.

[Chromie]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote..
Death Note is more mature than both.  ...until that lame ending at least. <_< I like to pretend the series ended at episode 25 and volume 7. 

 back at ya. 

Mushi-shi is more mature than Death Note.

...Dragon Ball Z is more mature than both?....

Yea Vegeta was an interesting character!

A guy going around helping people or some Saiyan spending ten episodes screaming. I just don't know!

On topic! The Witcher tries to have a believable world yes this includes things like misogyny, cursing and nudity does this make it worse or add to the world and atmosphere? It's definitely better than playing Dragon Age or Mass Effect and seeing how sterile and lifeless the world or environment is.

Ryzaki wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Mushi-shi is more mature than Death Note.

Never heard of it. What's it about? Is it similar to Monster?

Clicky! Great manga/anime.

Modifié par Ringo12, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:33 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Dragon Ball Z is more mature than both?....

Yea Vegeta was an interesting character!

...You *want* me to kick you? 

What's wrong with Vegeta and his totally not ******-erotic obsession with Kakarot?

OMG LOLZ

[Ryzaki]

BW games don't suffer because of a lack of cursing and misogyny. They suffer because BW has rarely if ever put any good amount of decent background characters in that wasn't tied to the plot in someway.

And DAO certainly didn't feel sterile and lifeless to me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Then you have open objectification of women. Like in the game we are talking about it honestly seems the main character just happens to get chances to add notches to his bedpost. The comparison is correct because I was looking through the youtube videos and nothing he said was genuine or heartfelt. This kinda crap makes me hate my own gender... but I know there are still plenty of good guys out there that have a lot to offer emotionally.

That's not Geralt. That's not a flaw, that's a design choice, he is based on a novel. Geralt is bad at conveying his emotions. I think he even knows it. He in fact admits it in TW1, but not related to women.

You may find that kind of attitude bad or a weakness, and as such Geralt's character uninteresting (I see him as interestingly flawed). It's fine. But it's not a game flaw, as in they weren't trying to make Geralt a sweet emotional man like you are apparently. If they were, I'd agree that their portrayal was an epic fail.

In many ways, Geralt is not a good guy. I think he is genuine at heart, but he doesn't convey it with words, he is distant and introverted. That, imo, is not a flaw.

And now I gtg, cheers, it's been pleasant!

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:38 .

[Ryzaki]

So Geralt's flatness is on purpose?

...well that makes it marginally better.

[Chromie]

Ryzaki wrote...

BW games don't suffer because of a lack of cursing and misogyny. They suffer because BW has rarely if ever put any good amount of decent background characters in that wasn't tied to the plot in someway.

And DAO certainly didn't feel sterile and lifeless to me.

Well to me it did. Another problem with Bioware's cast of characters is how everyone except the protagonist seems to be imcompentent. I love how Witcher has strong characters and how Geralt can't just solve everything.

Future Guy wrote...

I'm trying to figure out how TW is misogynistic. Sexist? Yes. Depicting a world of poverty, violence, harlots, and a lot in between, but not hatred of women.

I don't see it either. They are depicting a world in a time where woman aren't equal to men but yet there are powerful female sorceress's who managed to kill monarchs, a woman who unites different races to make a free state and all the while they are doing this in plain site of strong characters.

Modifié par Ringo12, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:42 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Then you have open objectification of women. Like in the game we are talking about it honestly seems the main character just happens to get chances to add notches to his bedpost. The comparison is correct because I was looking through the youtube videos and nothing he said was genuine or heartfelt. This kinda crap makes me hate my own gender... but I know there are still plenty of good guys out there that have a lot to offer emotionally.

That's not Geralt. That's not a flaw, that's a design choice, he is based on a novel. Geralt is bad at conveying his emotions. I think he even knows it. He in fact admits it in TW1, but not related to women.

You may find that kind of attitude bad or a weakness, and as such Geralt's character uninteresting (I see him as interestingly flawed). It's fine. But it's not a game flaw, as in they weren't trying to make Geralt a sweet emotional man like you are apparently. If they were, I'd agree that their portrayal was an epic fail.

Never said it was a game flaw... if thats the direction the game wants to go with it fine. You dont see me ranting or raving that Leisure Suit Larry was a game that was made for degenerates. I wont buy the game if it doesnt suit me.

I am making the point that Geralt is not Shep... and therefore this should not be brought over to ME.

[Dragoonlordz]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Well I have seen plenty of movies and shows where in some form or another a female character cheats on her husband / boyfriend... whatever... or wrongs him in some way shape or form... and the right thing for him to do is to forgive her. There are exceptions to this rule but I have seen more than enough of this to make this the rule though.

It' is not right to forgive her anymore so then right to not forgive. His life, she cheated he would be just as right to walk away after trust destroyed.

Then you have open objectification of women. Like in the game we are talking about it honestly seems the main character just happens to get chances to add notches to his bedpost. The comparison is correct because I was looking through the youtube videos and nothing he said was genuine or heartfelt. This kinda crap makes me hate my own gender... but I know there are still plenty of good guys out there that have a lot to offer emotionally.

You haven't played it and it's not true else you would know thats not true, you can be that way or you can choose to not be that way. My Geralt was extremely respectfull to women one one playthrough and on the other was an ass towards them. In fact my nice Geralt to women is no less so than nice Shepard to women can be.

Shepard's character unlike the main character of the Witcher... attempts to trully get to know someone. Granted this is a game and it can be manipulated. Even still Shep... either male or female... makes the attempt at love.

Shepard can be nice to women or an ass just like Geralt. That is the power of being able to make choices in the game, of which can also do in TW2. Like I said before the people who mainly bash TW2 are the people who haven't even played it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:41 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

So Geralt's flatness is on purpose?

...well that makes it marginally better.

Witchers in general are detached, and some can't even take it emotionally (Berengar).

They are outcast mutant seen as freaks, they naturally grow to look detached. But Geralt is genuine. He almost died saving nonhumans from a pogrom. He just doesn't convey emotions well and I think it's deliberate.

And now I really gtg.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:40 .

[Ryzaki]

Ringo12 wrote...
Well to me it did. Another problem with Bioware's cast of characters is how everyone except the protagonist seems to be imcompentent. I love how Witcher has strong characters and how Geralt can't just solve everything.

Subjective then. Because all those things to you made the Witcher great made it terrible to me.

Plus I like being the special snowflake. 

[jlb524]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Hence why, in a misogynist setting, misogynist comments should show up. Context is indeed important.

Yes, I'm saying our meta-critique of instances of misogyny vs. misandry in the game can't be compared on a one-to-one level.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Witchers in general are detached, and some can't even take it emotionally (Berengar).

They are outcast mutant seen as freaks, they naturally grow to look detached. But Geralt is genuine. He almost died saving nonhumans from a pogrom. He just doesn't convey emotiosn well and I think it's deliberate.

AH so they're a bunch of freaks. It maybe deliberate but it grated the heck out of my ears. He was giving Adam Jensen a run for it in the flat department. 

[Dragoonlordz]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...
Well to me it did. Another problem with Bioware's cast of characters is how everyone except the protagonist seems to be imcompentent. I love how Witcher has strong characters and how Geralt can't just solve everything.

Subjective then. Because all those things to you made the Witcher great made it terrible to me.

Plus I like being the special snowflake. 

But you never even got out of prison which is the epilogue, you never saw the world, met it's very diverse people etc. It's like doing the running up hill at start of DA2 then saying hate rest of game because never enjoyed that epilogue section.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:44 .