133 réponses à ce sujet

[jacquesct]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Everyone can wear glasses mate. If a person is wearing glasses, of course they should have LE surgery if they can afford it. I think the argument you were looking for is, "Shouldn't anyone be able to have LE surgery" in which the answer is:

No.

If you have good eyes, you don't need an improvement. Verily, if your body functions normal, you'd need no augmentations. It's as simple as that. It's like giving money to a rich man. He doesn't need it.

Who are you to determine what people need?

If I want to improve myself, why shouldn't I be allowed to?

[Eternal Phoenix]

jacquesct wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Everyone can wear glasses mate. If a person is wearing glasses, of course they should have LE surgery if they can afford it. I think the argument you were looking for is, "Shouldn't anyone be able to have LE surgery" in which the answer is:

No.

If you have good eyes, you don't need an improvement. Verily, if your body functions normal, you'd need no augmentations. It's as simple as that. It's like giving money to a rich man. He doesn't need it.

Who are you to determine what people need?

If I want to improve myself, why shouldn't I be allowed to?

Who am I? No one but I can say that if you can see, you don't need eye augmentations. It would serve no purpose. Eventually - if we went by your rule - rich people would be buying all sorts of augmentations that would make them superhuman while the poor would be inferior and non-equal and then we end up with the divided "human" race like in Deus Ex.

Oh, I'd just get that superarm augmentation and I'd stop there. That's similar to what the guest said to his host about eating food. That's also similar to what governments say about money. Oh, I'd just take an extra [insert money amount here] and I'll stop. It doesn't end.

Do you need to improve yourself if you have a perfect functioning body? No. Humanity has functioned well throughout its existance without augmentations. Improve yourself by excising your body and mind. That's improvement and it's natural.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 18 septembre 2011 - 01:30 .

[jacquesct]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Who am I? No one but I can say that if you can see, you don't need eye augmentations. It would serve no purpose. Eventually - if we went by your rule - rich people would be buying all sorts of augmentations that would make them superhuman while the poor would be inferior and non-equal and then we end up with the divided "human" race like in Deus Ex.

Being able to see new wavelengths of light would serve no purpose? Being able to see in augmented reality would serve no purpose? Being able to zoom would serve no purpose?

Humanity's always going to be divided. Always.

Do you need to improve yourself if you have a perfect functioning body? No. Humanity has functioned well throughout its existance without augmentations. Improve yourself by excising your body and mind. That's improvement and it's natural.

Perfect? What's perfect about a body that only sees certain wavelengths of light? That only hears certain frequencies of sound? That only feels certain things? Absolutely nothing.

Humanity has always driven to create new tools to increase itself, augmentation is just the natural extension of that.

Modifié par jacquesct, 18 septembre 2011 - 01:34 .

[Ulous]

Sounds like some people are unhappy with themselves and their bodies, i'd recommend some exercise, better food, self enlightenment and maybe some counciling rather than augmentations.

I'm all for technology/robotics but lets keep them as seperate tools that we can pick up or put down.

[jacquesct]

Ulous wrote...

Sounds like some people are unhappy with themselves and their bodies, i'd recommend some exercise, better food, self enlightenment and maybe some counciling rather than augmentations.

I'm all for technology/robotics but lets keep them as seperate tools that we can pick up or put down.

On that vaguely insulting note, I think I've said everything I've had to say on this topic.

[TJPags]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Everyone can wear glasses mate. If a person is wearing glasses, of course they should have LE surgery if they can afford it. I think the argument you were looking for is, "Shouldn't anyone be able to have LE surgery" in which the answer is:

No.

If you have good eyes, you don't need an improvement. Verily, if your body functions normal, you'd need no augmentations. It's as simple as that. It's like giving money to a rich man. He doesn't need it.

What's "good eyes"?  What if I need reading glasses only, or only need to wear glasses at night?  Is 20/30 vision "good enough"?  20/40?  What if I'm color blind?

What if I have a perfectly functioning male body, but want to be female?  Should that be prevented?  By your definition, almost seems yes.

You seem to be against someone improving themself if, in your opinion, they don't "need it".  You're rich man comparison is so misplaced,  Nobody is "giving" the rich man anything - he is buying something from someone who sells it, exchanging his money for something he wants.  Same thing you do when you buy a video game.

The concept that the human body is a perfect machine, and if it works fine we shouldn't touch it is silly.  Birds have better vision than humans.  Dogs have better hearing and sense of smell.  Many animals are faster, stronger.  What's so perfect about humans?

So is the concept that people shouldn't be able to get something if it's not available to everyone else.  I want a Masseratti.  I can't afford one.  Should I hate that rich guy who can afford it?  Should he be prevented from getting it?  After all, he doesn't need it - a Toyota will get him where he needs to go just fine, right?

[Il Divo]

jacquesct wrote...

Perfect? What's perfect about a body that only sees certain wavelengths of light? That only hears certain frequencies of sound? That only feels certain things? Absolutely nothing.

Humanity has always driven to create new tools to increase itself, augmentation is just the natural extension of that.

I think this pretty much sums it up. As human beings, we have always strived to become "more than we are".

[KenKenpachi]

And what if the Augmented Folks are on the lossing end? Something I'ld rather enjoy to see. Is that fiar? Face it not everyone will agree with you, and some will fight. And with that, very well may win. As to some of these Bull**** its my money I can do what I want remarks.

Yeah sure you can, and I guess as you have money that makes you better than everyone else? People like that I would love to bleed. And people wonder why I used to be a communist.

I guess its aokay if your a  fat ass, and you buy the last sandwhich in a store even though you don't need it while a person just behind you thats starving can't have it, thats okay?

Sure its fair, its also fair that nature gave us people like say Pancho Villa to visit justice on the corrupt. And the only sort of justice that is true, at that. So rub your money and when and IF this **** happens enjoy it, as history shows "the lesser and unwashed" have no problem leaving you for dead in a ditch when it becomes too much to bare. The Elitism in this topic honestly makes me sick. And with that I leave again.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 18 septembre 2011 - 06:41 .

[marshalleck]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Who am I? No one but I can say that if you can see, you don't need eye augmentations. It would serve no purpose. Eventually - if we went by your rule - rich people would be buying all sorts of augmentations that would make them superhuman while the poor would be inferior and non-equal and then we end up with the divided "human" race like in Deus Ex.

Oh, so you mean the world wouldn't really be all that different than it is now?

The rich are already hugely advantaged over the rest of us. Even if you're comfortably middle class American, which lives like kings in some parts of the world, you can have absolutely no idea what it's like to be amongst the ultra-rich 1%. Anything on this world can be theirs. They make or break governments and direct the course of our collective future with selective redistribution of their mega-wealth (finance, industry, politics, entrepreneurship).

Stop pretending like augmentation would usher in some new age of inequality. There's already drastic inequality in the world and it grows daily. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 septembre 2011 - 06:55 .

[Kathleen321]

jacquesct wrote...

Kathleen321 wrote...

Haven't heard anyone mention neuropozyne addiction. This is one of the biggest downsides to human augmentation. Even if amputees get new limbs they have to take this expensive drug the rest of their life or their body will reject their limbs and organs. What are your thoughts about this?

Neuropozyne is a plot device in a video game, it's got nothing to do with reality.


I think people need to step away from Deus Ex for a moment when they're thinking about this particular conversation.

Actually, there has been a successful organic hand transplant in which drugs were necessary. I'm not sure if robotic hands will be different but in this particular case, the woman had to take medicine so that her body wouldn't reject the hand. So neuropozyne is not just a plot device- it is realistic. When you are adding something to your body- you have to in a sense '"confuse it" so that it doesn't reject the foreign tissue. Here is the report on this case. Hand transplant They mention the drugs at 5:38  

[TJPags]

Kathleen321 wrote...

jacquesct wrote...

Kathleen321 wrote...

Haven't heard anyone mention neuropozyne addiction. This is one of the biggest downsides to human augmentation. Even if amputees get new limbs they have to take this expensive drug the rest of their life or their body will reject their limbs and organs. What are your thoughts about this?

Neuropozyne is a plot device in a video game, it's got nothing to do with reality.


I think people need to step away from Deus Ex for a moment when they're thinking about this particular conversation.

Actually, there has been a successful organic hand transplant in which drugs were necessary. I'm not sure if robotic hands will be different but in this particular case, the woman had to take medicine so that her body wouldn't reject the hand. So neuropozyne is not just a plot device- it is realistic. When you are adding something to your body- you have to in a sense '"confuse it" so that it doesn't reject the foreign tissue. Here is the report on this case. Hand transplant They mention the drugs at 5:38  

Actually, that goes on with any organ transplant, I believe.  After all, the transplanted organ IS actually a foreign body, which the body is designed to reject.  I don't know the name of the drug - it may vary depending on the type of transplant or anything else - but I think most transplant patients do take some form of drug both immediately after the surgery, and perhaps for life after.

[Eternal Phoenix]

jacquesct wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Who am I? No one but I can say that if you can see, you don't need eye augmentations. It would serve no purpose. Eventually - if we went by your rule - rich people would be buying all sorts of augmentations that would make them superhuman while the poor would be inferior and non-equal and then we end up with the divided "human" race like in Deus Ex.

Being able to see new wavelengths of light would serve no purpose? Being able to see in augmented reality would serve no purpose? Being able to zoom would serve no purpose?

Humanity's always going to be divided. Always.

Do you need to improve yourself if you have a perfect functioning body? No. Humanity has functioned well throughout its existance without augmentations. Improve yourself by excising your body and mind. That's improvement and it's natural.

Perfect? What's perfect about a body that only sees certain wavelengths of light? That only hears certain frequencies of sound? That only feels certain things? Absolutely nothing.

Humanity has always driven to create new tools to increase itself, augmentation is just the natural extension of that.

Want to zoom? Use binoculars. Sounds like you're just being lazy if you can't get one and lift it up. Unless you're a stalker or bird watcher, you're not going to need zoom vision. Nor will you need to see the wavelengths of light or other things that can't be seen by human eyes.

What else do you want? A 50 inch augmentated penis that also serves as a gun? (Sorry about that last part, I just couldn't resist in a topic about augmentations)

TJPags wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Everyone can wear glasses mate. If a person is wearing glasses, of course they should have LE surgery if they can afford it. I think the argument you were looking for is, "Shouldn't anyone be able to have LE surgery" in which the answer is:

No.

If you have good eyes, you don't need an improvement. Verily, if your body functions normal, you'd need no augmentations. It's as simple as that. It's like giving money to a rich man. He doesn't need it.

What's "good eyes"?  What if I need reading glasses only, or only need to wear glasses at night?  Is 20/30 vision "good enough"?  20/40?  What if I'm color blind?

What if I have a perfectly functioning male body, but want to be female?  Should that be prevented?  By your definition, almost seems yes.

You seem to be against someone improving themself if, in your opinion, they don't "need it".  You're rich man comparison is so misplaced,  Nobody is "giving" the rich man anything - he is buying something from someone who sells it, exchanging his money for something he wants.  Same thing you do when you buy a video game.

The concept that the human body is a perfect machine, and if it works fine we shouldn't touch it is silly.  Birds have better vision than humans.  Dogs have better hearing and sense of smell.  Many animals are faster, stronger.  What's so perfect about humans?

So is the concept that people shouldn't be able to get something if it's not available to everyone else.  I want a Masseratti.  I can't afford one.  Should I hate that rich guy who can afford it?  Should he be prevented from getting it?  After all, he doesn't need it - a Toyota will get him where he needs to go just fine, right?

Like I said. Those who have eye problems should be the ones to get such augmentations. If you can see perfectly, there is no need for eye augmentations just as there is no need for a perfectly good arm to be chopped off. 

Should males have sex changes? No. You're born the way you are. I find those that "change" their sex to be simply lacking in self confidence about the body that they should be happy with. It's simply in their mind about "being a woman trapped in a man's body". Everything you feel is in the mind. If you want to have a sex change, so be it, I won't stop you but I won't agree with it.

The rich man comparison isn't misplaced. Do you think the doctors will be giving augmentations to everyone? A rich man will be able to buy them through whatever means (black market and then have his own doctors augment him) he wants while poor people could only get augmentations if they need them (take for example, a man with no arm) and if you say different, then you're wrong. Rich men from all around the world can get anything they want even if they don't need it. They can get medicine that they're not supposed to have and they can get guns.

What's so perfect about humans? Nothing. We're a bad race but we also control the planet proving that we don't need augmentations when we have hands that can pick things up. There's no need for a penis that shoots bullets or ears that shoot fire from them and we don't need metal hands or an augmentation to make our breath poison.

Luc0s wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

jacquesct wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Everyone can wear glasses mate. If a person is wearing glasses, of course they should have LE surgery if they can afford it. I think the argument you were looking for is, "Shouldn't anyone be able to have LE surgery" in which the answer is:

No.

If you have good eyes, you don't need an improvement. Verily, if your body functions normal, you'd need no augmentations. It's as simple as that. It's like giving money to a rich man. He doesn't need it.

Who are you to determine what people need?

If I want to improve myself, why shouldn't I be allowed to?

Who am I? No one but I can say that if you can see, you don't need eye augmentations. It would serve no purpose. Eventually - if we went by your rule - rich people would be buying all sorts of augmentations that would make them superhuman while the poor would be inferior and non-equal and then we end up with the divided "human" race like in Deus Ex.

Oh, I'd just get that superarm augmentation and I'd stop there. That's similar to what the guest said to his host about eating food. That's also similar to what governments say about money. Oh, I'd just take an extra [insert money amount here] and I'll stop. It doesn't end.

Do you need to improve yourself if you have a perfect functioning body? No. Humanity has functioned well throughout its existance without augmentations. Improve yourself by excising your body and mind. That's improvement and it's natural.

They idea of perfect equalty is a hoax, a lie, a fairy-tale. It's not how nature works, with or without augmentatios.


Species evolve, split up, get devided, eventually the weaker division dies off and the stronger division survives. It's how evolution works. It's how nature works. Random mutation v.s natural selection.

So far, it has always been RANDOM mutation v.s natural selection, but what if the mutations don't need to be RANDOM no longer? What if we can CONTROL those mutations? What if we can CONTROL human evolution?

Controller evolution would be no different than natural evolution. The only difference is that money has no meaning in natural evolution, while money most likely will have a big influence in controlled evolution.

Is it fair if the rich people will get augmentations while the poor people get left behind? No, it's totally not fair. But when is nature ever fair? Was the gigantic tsunami in 2004 fair? Nope. Was the earthquake in Haiti fair? Nope. Was the earthquake in Japan fair? Nope. Nature obviously isn't fair either.

Life isn't fair, whether it's controlled by nature or controlled by humanity, it doesn't matter. Life is never fair.

Well since I don't believe in evolution, your arguement FOR augmentation makes no sense to me. How is adding something to the human body controlling how we develop anyway? Evolution is about a species changing. If an augmentated person has a baby, that baby won't be born with the augs that its parents has. Augmentating a person isn't changing their DNA or genetics.

Life is fair. Nature is fair. Things are born and things must die. That's balance. Humanity though isn't fair, on that we can agree. Keep in mind that humanity isn't nature and doesn't function like nature. Nature is always in the balance. Volcanos are destructive but what they leave allows grass and trees to grow again. Tornados are destructive but life reproduces. Humanity however is constantly producing more and more and more and spreading like a virus. Would it be okay if China builds the biggest nuclear bomb ever that is capable of destroying the entire Earth? No, just like rich people getting augmentations wouldn't be okay when they don't need them.

Just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should. Since the invention of fire-arms, billions have been killed by them because they're easier to use than knives and when I mean easier, I mean that people can kill someone from afar and because the bullet travels so fast, the victim has no chance.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 19 septembre 2011 - 12:38 .

[marshalleck]

Elton John is dead wrote...

What else do you want? A 50 inch augmentated penis that also serves as a gun? (Sorry about that last part, I just couldn't resist in a topic about augmentations)

Might I sugest agin, a skul-gun for my head. Yesterday in Batery Park, some scum we all know pushes smack for NSF gets jumpy and draws. I take 2 .22's, 1 in flesh, 1 in augs, befor I can get out that dam asalt gun. If I could kil just by thought, it would be beter. Is it my job to be a human target-practis backstop? 

[Eternal Phoenix]

marshalleck wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

What else do you want? A 300 inch augmentated penis that also serves as a gun? (Sorry about that last part, I just couldn't resist in a topic about augmentations)

Might I sugest agin, a skul-gun for my head. Yesterday in Batery Park, some scum we all know pushes smack for NSF gets jumpy and draws. I take 2 .22's, 1 in flesh, 1 in augs, befor I can get out that dam asalt gun. If I could kil just by thought, it would be beter. Is it my job to be a human target-practis backstop? 

If everyone could kill by thought, humanity would be dead within a day.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 19 septembre 2011 - 12:34 .

[marshalleck]

Elton John is dead wrote...

If everyone could kill by thought, humanity would be dead within a day.

Gunther Hermann approves of this message.

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 septembre 2011 - 01:02 .

[Volus Warlord]

Elton John is dead wrote...

What else do you want? A 50 inch augmentated penis that also serves as a gun? (Sorry about that last part, I just couldn't resist in a topic about augmentations)

Rofl. My friends and I were discussing how much money we could make if we developed an artificial penis.

If Viagra is any indication... LOTS.



I wantz ma monnah.

Modifié par Volus Warlord, 19 septembre 2011 - 01:08 .

[Kathleen321]

Haha I was hoping to discuss this with someone. The idea of augmented erm... intimates.

VAGUE VAGUE SPOILER: I don't want any spoilers for those who haven't finished Deus so I will keep this vague and encourage anyone else who knows who I'm talking about to do the same. One of the characters fights in... pretty much the nude. And it is clear that the character has nothing between the legs but what appears to be an attachment. I'm guessing an attachment for an augmented penis.

Anyways, would anyone chop off their penis for a robotic one? I mean. Ow. As a woman the idea of.. well.. something robotic being.. well it sounds uncomfortable. o.o

[marshalleck]

Kathleen321 wrote...

Anyways, would anyone chop off their penis for a robotic one? I mean. Ow. As a woman the idea of.. well.. something robotic being.. well it sounds uncomfortable. o.o

Put it in the microwave first to warm it up, it will be fine

[Kathleen321]

marshalleck wrote...

Kathleen321 wrote...

Anyways, would anyone chop off their penis for a robotic one? I mean. Ow. As a woman the idea of.. well.. something robotic being.. well it sounds uncomfortable. o.o

Put it in the microwave first to warm it up, it will be fine

lol ....not much to add to that...