Maybe, but don't you think that we as humans are a completely different species to what we were 100 years ago? Let alone 1000, 2000 or many thousands of years ago?
The fact is, there are certain inventions in human history that have fundamentally altered the way that humans behave. The invention of farming, the printing press, cities, free education for all. These and countless others have had a huge effect on the way we act as a species.
No. I really don't. A species doesn't "evolve" because of technology, although it most certainly may evolve around it. Idiocracy springs to mind. If anything technology makes it easier to survive and this allows weaker specimins to thrive and procreate.
But that's neither here nor there. Evolution is a genetic function, not an intellectual one. It takes place over hundreds, even thousands of generations. It's absurd to suggest that a hundred or so years under the protection of the industrial revolution has somehow spurred the species into evolving faster. People are essentiallly the same cratures now that they were thousands of years ago. Take 10 people and plop them down on a desert island away from electricity and refrigerators and starbucks and american idol and you'll see that we haven't evolved one whit.
We are the same as our ancestors even 6000, 13000 or 25000 years ago. Nothing is really evolved, and We learned to create Language, Alphabet, Stuffs, Governments and discover sciences etc. throughout the time (History), as continuance of the ideas and our knowledge through generations.
For 2000 years ... I'm sure the thinkers of that time were better than us!
1. What do you expect them to be? Is it really too hard a concept for you to grasp that fossils have been in the ground for thousands of years and it's a miracle that we've even found things like complete skulls? In any case, you're wrong, look again, there are whole skeletons.
2. They shouldn't? Where should they go?
3. Nice link, I particularly like how you're trying to use a site that contains the following in an attempt to provide a valid source.
You probably also know that they lived a very long time ago. (Back when your teacher was young, lol) How long exactly though?
I take it you never went to university or learnt how to write proper essays? One of the first things you're taught is to use good sources, that is not a good source.
4. No, you're not understanding science again. Mass is mass, you can't magically create more of it. If you were to collect all the dust and particles kicked out by a supernova, it would have the same weight as the original star. That mass would then form an identical star, rather than multiple identical stars.
This is relevant because you're showing a complete lack of knowledge in what science means, and then you're trying to engage in a debate on the subject. If you don't know what you're talking about, stay quiet.
1. Okay then. Please direct me to a group of fossils showing evolutionary progression like this image:
2. Anywhere away.
3. That site is actually a site that comes up when you Google dinosaur. I picked it expecially for you. If you think that dinosaurs are gods, aliens, monkey men who evolved or simply ancestors of the current world leaders, then please provide the link. Fact is, dinosaurs layed eggs, reptiles lay eggs, dinosaurs have sharp teeth, reptiles have sharp teeth, dinosaurs have rough skin, reptiles have rough skin. There are simply different types of reptiles just as there are different types of mammals. Dinosaur means terrible lizard just as that site stated. They were called that for a reason. Think about it. It's not rocket science. You wouldn't name a creature a lizard if it wasn't one. Reptiles belong to the dinosaur family. Source
4. So you're more intelligent than NASA scientists now? LOL What are you doing on BSN then? Shouldn't you be writing essays and books? If all of your four claims were true, you would be able to list sources like I have. So far, you've only expressed opinion and claimed it as fact when nothing even supports your opinions. Here's a site that you might understand that explains the same that I have (since you clearly don't trust Wikipedia OR NASA):
I suggest you visit NASA or Hubble and look at the pictures of Nebula that are on the site where hundreds of stars are shown. Not all Nebula produce as many stars but some do. The fact remains though.
Stop saying I have no knowledge in science. You can be religious and know science. I was taught science. Science isn't just about evolution you know. It covers a huge ground and I learnt about astronomy, the universe, planets and the galaxy long before anyone else at school. In fact, when I said that we live in a place called a "galaxy" and that our galaxy is called The Milky Way, other children didn't believe me because there is chocolate with the same names, so I had to bring in a science book to show them.
@UrkOfGreyhawk
I don't speak for any "Christian" because most Christians believe that Jesus is God and I don't. My views are simply based on Bible text, not what the Church believe. Some would call me an Arian I guess.
Modifié par Elton John is dead, 20 septembre 2011 - 08:20 .
That's no fact. You call ALL fossils transitional, I say that we are secretly slaves of ants who actually control the governments of the world. Ants run the NWO, they also developed Deus Ex because they wanted this argument to take place. No evidence supports either. Both are opinions but I respect yours if that's what you believe. [/quote]
Okay I could totally point out how you're completely wrong, but I won't, as this is off-topic, so I'm just going to ignore this part of your comment.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Really? Guns are expensive in the countries that you can buy them from, plasma TV's are expensive, the best and fastest cars are expensive and getting one of the most advanced robots would be expensive. [/quote]
TVs aren't expensive. You can get a nice HD TV for merely 300 bucks. Cars aren't expensive either. Mine cost only 1000 bucks. That's extremely cheap for a decent car. I don't know how expensive robots are and neither do you.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Augmentations should be used to fix a human not "better" him because he doesn't need to better. We can learn new things, reason, understand and use tools with our hands, we don't need anything else, we don't superhuman strength and we don't need an augmentated pelvis. We're okay as we currently are. You are a man of nature, then let nature do its thing, otherwise we risk destroying ourselves. [/quote]
That's your opinion. And while I respect your opinion, it isn't going to stop people from getting augmented when augments become avaible. You can't stop people from getting them just because it's your opinion that augments should only be used to fix a human.
Also, you're repeating yourself and this discussing is going in circles. You say we don't need augments, I already answered that we indeed don't need augments, but they sure as hell could make life easier. That's what technology is all about, making life easier.
All technology risks destroying mankind, not just augmentations. But that doesn't stop us from using it. Risks need to be taken in order to advance mankind.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
There are medicines only given to the people who need them but the rich could aquire them through whatever means they want and it's the same with augmentations, there will be augmentations that no average guy could afford. [/quote]
You forget about vaccines. Vaccines are given to everyone (in the western society). Why? Because vaccines make us stronger. Vaccines make us more resistant against diseases. Vaccines upgrades our human body, and everyone gets them, including you.
Tell me, how are vaccines any different from augmentations, apart from the fact that vaccines aren't from steel?
I tell you, there is no difference between vaccines and augmentations, the only difference is that augmentations are from steel and vaccines aren't. But in essence, vaccines and augments do the same thing, they both upgrade the human body.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Maybe but after the hurricanes swept across Haiti in 2008 and scientists warned that Haiti was pretty much in a hot spot, people should have left there and then (and some probably did). It would be a better idea than to leave with your life than to stay and die. [/quote]
And like I said, those people in Haiti don't have a choice. Again, you're falling into repetition and you make me repeat myself because apperantly you didn't get the message the first time. Those people in Haiti don't have a choice. They would leave if they could, but they can't. They're stuck there.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Either way - whatever happened to dinosaurs - they AREN'T creatures you want to live in. Even today they kill us humans. (Didn't you know that ALL lizards - alligators and komodo dragons - are dinosaurs?) [/quote]
You're completely missing the point here.
And mo, all birds used to be dinosaurs. Lizards and aligators already evolved before (or at the same time as) the dinosaurs.
Dinosaurs evolved into birds, not into lizards. Please get your facts straight and learn a thing or two about biology.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Because people would use them to control the population. The police being the prime example. Governments become corrupt with power (they are already corrupt as it is) and could easily use their bullet-proof police to do whatever they wanted. [/quote]
The government isn't corrupt. You just think they are, but that doesn't make any sense. The government are democratically elected by the people. The men and women within the government are just people like you and me.
Please tell me, are you one of those conspiracy theorists who beliefs that the entire government is corrupt and/or controlled by a shadow organisation which we also know as the illuminati? Because I don't believe that crap.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Governments will decide who gets what and certain powerful augmentations will be developed by their wish. [/quote]
And how is that different from today? The government decides who gets sofisticated weapons. The government decides where our troops are deployed. The government (in Europe) decides that no-one can carry a gun except for the police.
But in the end, it's not the government that decides what we can or cannot have, it's money that decides what we can and cannot have. As long as you have the money, you can virtually get everything. But LUCKLY we have a government that tries to regulate eveything.
The government is there to PROTECT us, NOT to EXTORT us.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
No augmentation is innocent. You say that your body belongs to you and that you can do what you want to it, so are you saying that sucide for no reason is right? How 'bout self harm? People would be changing who they were born as with augmentations. [/quote]
Plenty of augmentations will be innocent. Glasses are form of primitive augmentation. Are you now saying that glasses aren't innocent? And a sex-change operation is an augmentation in it's own right. Are you now saying that sex-change operations are evil or something? A tattoo or a piercing is a form of augmentation. Are you saying tattoos and piercings aren't innocent?
As for suicide: Yes, I believe it's your own right to kill yourself if you want to. As a matter of fact, I have a friend who commited suicide a few years ago. He was an amazing guy, but he was sick and tired of life. I truly miss him and I truly feel sorry for him, but if he really wanted to die then I respect that. I can accept and even respect his decision to commit suicide.
Same goes for self-harm. I used to practice automutilation. I harmed myself and cut myself up as a teen. Today I totally regret my actions. I regret that I scarred my body for life. But that is MY problem and MINE only. Same goes for augmentations. If I would scar myself with an augmentation that has gone wrong, then the only person to blame is myself, as it is my body and it was my decision to get augmented. Just like it's my body and my decision to cut it up as a teen. It's my problem, not yours.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
You believe in evolution, so how about this:
If we needed super vision, wouldn't evolution have given that to us? If we do have need for it, wouldn't humans evolve to have it eventually? [/quote]
You don't understand anything about biology and evolution do you?
First, I don't believe in evolution, I know evolution happens for a fact.
Second, nature and/or evolution doesn't give us what we need. That's not how nature works. That's not how evolution works. Please get a little more education on this subject before you're going to use it in a debate.
Anyway, the answer to your question is: No, evolution wouldn't have given us super vision if we needed it. And no, humans wouldn't evolve super vision eventually. That's not how evolution works.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Fact is, we don't need augmentations for no reason. There needs to be limits to what is made. [/quote]
Who says that? Who said that there needs to be a limit? Surely that's only your OPINION. And I disagree. The sky is the limit. We have to reach for the sky. As long as we don't harm anyone in the progress, we shouldn't let anyone or anything limit our progression. Progression is a good thing, as long as we don't harm anyone in the progress.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
And as someone else said, why should someone with a normal face get plastic surgery when there is someone out there - who has been in a road accident - who really needs it? [/quote]
Those things aren't mutually exclusive. This is really the worst argument ever.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Don't say that we don't need computers either because computers aren't attached to us whereas an augmentation would be for life. You are literally changing who you are. A computer is simply a tool (and you believe humanity evolved by using tools which is what makes us human) whereas an augmentation would become part of you and change you. There's no need for that. [/quote]
Augmentations would also just be tools. Our body is also just a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.
You are not defined by your body, but by your soul. Your soul is what makes your human, not your body. As I said earlier, our bodies are mere vessels, tools, nothing more. Again, you make me repeat myself. This is getting tiresome.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Humanity is becoming vain and greedy. Greed and vainess will destroy us if not contained. We can continue - foolishly - running down the road to destruction and have CATS telling us "to make our time" or we can stop and think. As KenKenPachi said in another thread, you can snap a piece of grass but get a thousand pieces of grass and the sharpest knife won't be able to cut through. The same goes for humanity. Instead of developing potential weapons, we should be focusing on how to make society join and work together. Not all advancements are through technology. [/quote]
Again, those things aren't mutual exclusive. We should focus on how to advance our society and make our society a better place to live in and at the same time we should focus on technology that makes life easier, including augmentations.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Didn't you know that eating makes people happy? That's why some depressed people eat and eat and eat. The only drugs that should be allowed are the ones that truly help people, not the ones that make you "high" for these are the same ones that destroy your mind. They make you happy when you do it but - just like with the eating example - when it's over, nothing would have changed. I don't believe people should be drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes either because they are harmful, it's like slowly thrusting a knife into your heart. [/quote]
I agree with you, but it's not up to us to stop other people from smoking and drinking. Again, everyone has their own body and everyone has the right to decide what to do with their own body.
If I decided to smoke and drink, then that's MY decision, NOT YOURS. I decide what I want to do with my body, not you. If I want to f*ck up my lungs by smoking, then that's MY business, not yours, get it?
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Who are you to say what limitations are necessary and which aren't? You're not nature to decide. You're not God either. We need limitations to prevent us from destroying ourselves which is slowly happening as technology increases.
[/quote]
EXCUSE ME fine sir, but aren't YOU the one who's deciding here for other people what limitations are necessary and which aren't? Why are YOU to say what limitations are necessary and which aren't? You're not nature to decide. You're not God either.
To quote your own bible:
[Matthew 7:5] "You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye." - KJV bible
[quote]Luc0s wrote... TVs aren't expensive. You can get a nice HD TV for merely 300 bucks. Cars aren't expensive either. Mine cost only 1000 bucks. That's extremely cheap for a decent car. I don't know how expensive robots are and neither do you. [/quote]
Cars and TV's are expensive unless you want **** ones. Want a Ferrai? Prepare to save up 200k. Want a robot that is actually intelligent? AISMO is for you:
So don't say that I don't know how much one costs. You couldn't afford that and neither could I. Now if you think you can pick up an augmentation that makes your arms into arms that can punch through walls for £10, then you are sadly mistaking yourself. No augmentation would ever be sold for that much. If doctors weren't using them for people that needed them, then they would be being sold to make great money from those that could afford them. The best you'd get would be a destroyed one.
[quote]Luc0s wrote... That's your opinion. And while I respect your opinion, it isn't going to stop people from getting augmented when augments become avaible. You can't stop people from getting them just because it's your opinion that augments should only be used to fix a human.
Also, you're repeating yourself and this discussing is going in circles. You say we don't need augments, I already answered that we indeed don't need augments, but they sure as hell could make life easier. That's what technology is all about, making life easier.
All technology risks destroying mankind, not just augmentations. But that doesn't stop us from using it. Risks need to be taken in order to advance mankind. [/quote]
Not really. Saying "it makes life easier" isn't a great argument. Killing myself would make life easier. Sitting down and doing nothing would make my life easier. Mooching off of someone would make my life easier. Being a criminal would make my life easier. Robbing a bank would make my life easier and building nuclear weapons would make war easier but just because this can be done, doesn't mean it should.
[quote]Luc0s wrote... You forget about vaccines. Vaccines are given to everyone (in the western society). Why? Because vaccines make us stronger. Vaccines make us more resistant against diseases. Vaccines upgrades our human body, and everyone gets them, including you.
Tell me, how are vaccines any different from augmentations, apart from the fact that vaccines aren't from steel?
I tell you, there is no difference between vaccines and augmentations, the only difference is that augmentations are from steel and vaccines aren't. But in essence, vaccines and augments do the same thing, they both upgrade the human body. [/quote]
Vaccines? Never taken them. Never will. I only just heard about them now too which show how unimportant they are to me and my life.
[quote]Luc0s wrote... And like I said, those people in Haiti don't have a choice. Again, you're falling into repetition and you make me repeat myself because apperantly you didn't get the message the first time. Those people in Haiti don't have a choice. They would leave if they could, but they can't. They're stuck there. [/quote]
Why? Because godzilla is roaming about outside? Leaving everything you have behind is better than losing your life. Given the choice, I'd leave everything behind and keep my life. Possessions aren't worth dying for.
[quote]Luc0s wrote... You're completely missing the point here.
And mo, all birds used to be dinosaurs. Lizards and aligators already evolved before (or at the same time as) the dinosaurs.
Dinosaurs evolved into birds, not into lizards. Please get your facts straight and learn a thing or two about biology. [/quote]
Dinosaurs evolved into birds like chickens eh? Another reason why I find evolution to be funny expecially since it's widely agreed that reptiles are dinosaurs.
[quote]Luc0s wrote... The government isn't corrupt. You just think they are, but that doesn't make any sense. The government are democratically elected by the people. The men and women within the government are just people like you and me.
Please tell me, are you one of those conspiracy theorists who beliefs that the entire government is corrupt and/or controlled by a shadow organisation which we also know as the illuminati? Because I don't believe that crap. [/quote]
Illuminati? No but there is Satan influencing our music!
But seriously, I guess you didn't hear about what happened in the UK with the MP's taking our money for themselves.
[quote]Luc0s wrote... And how is that different from today? The government decides who gets sofisticated weapons. The government decides where our troops are deployed. The government (in Europe) decides that no-one can carry a gun except for the police.
But in the end, it's not the government that decides what we can or cannot have, it's money that decides what we can and cannot have. As long as you have the money, you can virtually get everything. But LUCKLY we have a government that tries to regulate eveything.
The government is there to PROTECT us, NOT to EXTORT us.
[/quote]
I'm sorry that you believe that. Governments do extort us. Governments are corrupt. Society needs to abolish them and form a fairer system where it's the people's votes that count when making an important choice.
[quote]Luc0s wrote... Plenty of augmentations will be innocent. Glasses are form of primitive augmentation. Are you now saying that glasses aren't innocent? And a sex-change operation is an augmentation in it's own right. Are you now saying that sex-change operations are evil or something? A tattoo or a piercing is a form of augmentation. Are you saying tattoos and piercings aren't innocent?
As for suicide: Yes, I believe it's your own right to kill yourself if you want to. As a matter of fact, I have a friend who commited suicide a few years ago. He was an amazing guy, but he was sick and tired of life. I truly miss him and I truly feel sorry for him, but if he really wanted to die then I respect that. I can accept and even respect his decision to commit suicide.
Same goes for self-harm. I used to practice automutilation. I harmed myself and cut myself up as a teen. Today I totally regret my actions. I regret that I scarred my body for life. But that is MY problem and MINE only. Same goes for augmentations. If I would scar myself with an augmentation that has gone wrong, then the only person to blame is myself, as it is my body and it was my decision to get augmented. Just like it's my body and my decision to cut it up as a teen. It's my problem, not yours. [/quote]
So everything we use is augmentation? Wrong. Glasses can be taken off whenever we want. They are tools and yes, I don't believe in people having sex changes. They are born the way they are and they need to accept that. Tattos and piercings look silly on many people (mostly on those who have more than one) expecially since the human body is a form of ART where augmentation and piercings only go to change it.
[quote]Luc0s wrote...
You don't understand anything about biology and evolution do you?
First, I don't believe in evolution, I know evolution happens for a fact.
Second, nature and/or evolution doesn't give us what we need. That's not how nature works. That's not how evolution works. Please get a little more education on this subject before you're going to use it in a debate.
Anyway, the answer to your question is: No, evolution wouldn't have given us super vision if we needed it. And no, humans wouldn't evolve super vision eventually. That's not how evolution works.
[/quote]
So you were actually there when evolution was happening? Okay Doctor Who.
If your evolution didn't give us what we needed, we wouldn't be alive right now. We have what we need, we rule this planet and can build what we want. We don't need augmentations. You say augmentations will make life easier but in what way? The way where only augmentated people start getting jobs because they can work for days without sleep? The way where many companies start asking for augmentated people only? The way where augmentated people work faster and as a result, society changes and has us working for days without sleep? Yeah, you'd build a house quicker and easier but I don't see how this makes any difference from our current rate of work that people are going at. If anything, augmentations would only make life even more complicated and increase stress levels.
[quote]Luc0s wrote... Who says that? Who said that there needs to be a limit? Surely that's only your OPINION. And I disagree. The sky is the limit. We have to reach for the sky. As long as we don't harm anyone in the progress, we shouldn't let anyone or anything limit our progression. Progression is a good thing, as long as we don't harm anyone in the progress. [/quote]
I see that bold statement different from you then. You're harming the body by chopping off perfectly good limbs.
[quote]Luc0s wrote...
Augmentations would also just be tools. Our body is also just a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.
You are not defined by your body, but by your soul. Your soul is what makes your human, not your body. As I said earlier, our bodies are mere vessels, tools, nothing more. Again, you make me repeat myself. This is getting tiresome.
[/quote]
Augmentations would become part of your body. Our body is what keeps us alive. You call it a tool, I call it a home. It doesn't need to change. I function through life perfectly as I am right now and so does the majority. We can use our hands and that's all that matters to advance.
[quote]Luc0s wrote... Again, those things aren't mutual exclusive. We should focus on how to advance our society and make our society a better place to live in and at the same time we should focus on technology that makes life easier, including augmentations. [/quote]
You can't have both.
[quote]Luc0s wrote...
I agree with you, but it's not up to us to stop other people from smoking and drinking. Again, everyone has their own body and everyone has the right to decide what to do with their own body.
If I decided to smoke and drink, then that's MY decision, NOT YOURS. I decide what I want to do with my body, not you. If I want to f*ck up my lungs by smoking, then that's MY business, not yours, get it?
[/quote]
Then that's why you're not a good spokesmen for augmentation. You care more about advancing technology than advancing society. If I said that I cared about other people and would rather that they LIVE till they were in their nineties, I'm a bad person and have no reason to care about my fellow man and wish for mankind to unite? I'm going to Hell for believing this because my sin is worst than Satan's. Caring about others is bad. I'd bet you'd be one of those people who walk past a crime. If I can help wounded animals, I can also help humans. Just as I care about animals, I care about humans because I am one too and care about where this society is heading. To care about society, you must care about humans and while I hate most for all the crimes they commit (murder, padophilia), I also wish that they would change for the better. I care in that way.
[quote]Luc0s wrote...
EXCUSE ME fine sir, but aren't YOU the one who's deciding here for other people what limitations are necessary and which aren't? Why are YOU to say what limitations are necessary and which aren't? You're not nature to decide. You're not God either.
To quote your own bible:
[Matthew 7:5] "You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye." - KJV bible
In other words: pot, kettle, black. Go figure.
[/quote]
What limitations eh? I'm saying that our bodies are already enough. It's God who fashioned and designed it like the magnificent artist that he is. If we needed super vision or 1000 inch penises, we would have been created with them. We've survived for as long as we have due to some humans deciding to work together. Technology doesn't matter for if humanity doesn't learn to unite, we are finished.
Modifié par Elton John is dead, 20 septembre 2011 - 08:56 .
Cars and TV's are expensive unless you want **** ones. Want a Ferrai? Prepare to save up 200k. Want a robot that is actually intelligent? AISMO is for you: [/quote]
Bullsh*t. My TV only costed 600 bucks and it's a really damn awesome TV. My car only costed 1000 bucks and it's a really nice car (Peugeot 307). Sure, it isn't a Ferrari, but who cares?
Again, you're totally missing the point. When augmentations become real, you'll have different augments for different prices. Sure, a solid gold augment would cost ya tons of money, but there will also be cheaper more affortable augmentations. Same as with computers.
As I said already, history has proven us that technology becomes cheaper over the years. What is really expensive today, will be really cheap tomorrow.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Not really. Saying "it makes life easier" isn't a great argument. Killing myself would make life easier. Sitting down and doing nothing would make my life easier. Mooching off of someone would make my life easier. Being a criminal would make my life easier. Robbing a bank would make my life easier and building nuclear weapons would make war easier but just because this can be done, doesn't mean it should. [/quote]
What a bunch of bullsh*t. No offense but did you even TRY making an argument here? Because this totally fails.
Killing yourself DOESN'T make life easier, it ENDS your life altogether. I don't know about you, but I rather stay alife. Sitting down and doing nothing all day long DOESN'T make life easier, because it doesn't earn you money and without money you're screwed. Being a criminal DOESN'T make life easier. The cops will be looking for you and you'll be thrown in jail. That does NOT make life easier. Robbing a bank DOESN'T make life easier. The cops will be looking for you and you'll be thrown in jail. Building nuclear weapons DOESN'T make war easier because it creates tension and other countries will stat to mistrust your country if your country all of the sudden starts building nuclear weapons.
Besides, what point are you trying to make? Because you totally fail at making a point here.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Vaccines? Never taken them. Never will. I only just heard about them now too which show how unimportant they are to me and my life. [/quote]
Don't lie. I bet you did take vaccines as a kid. If I'm not mistaken you don't even have a choice, If you have a life insurance policy, you are FORCED to take vaccines. You probably just don't remember it because you get most vaccines when you're a little 9 years old kid.
If you didn't get vaccines then you probably would already have been death from the flue or something. Or at least you take the risk of dying from a simple cold.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Why? Because godzilla is roaming about outside? Leaving everything you have behind is better than losing your life. Given the choice, I'd leave everything behind and keep my life. Possessions aren't worth dying for. [/quote]
You can't just live your country and live in another country. Please, learn a thing or 2 about the world before you say stupid sh*t.
To leave your country and find shelter in another country you actually have to get a visum (also known as visa document) to stay in that other country. Getting such a visum is hard and it only offers you a limited amount of time to stay in said country. When the visum expires, you have to get the f*ck out and go back to your own country. The only way to stay in another country forever is to get citizenship. But that is easier said than done.
As I said, those people in Haiti don't have a choice. They can't even affort a ticket to another country. They can't afffort a visum either.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Dinosaurs evolved into birds like chickens eh? Another reason why I find evolution to be funny expecially since it's widely agreed that reptiles are dinosaurs. [/quote]
No, reptiles aren't dinosaurs. So it isn't widely accepted either. Everyone accepts that birds are related to dinosaurs. Dinosaurs obviously resembled birds more than reptiles. Didn't you know that most dinosaurs had feathers? There has been a recent discovery that actually proves that dinosaurs had feathers.
Dinosaurs and (modern) reptiles actually developed side by side. They are related, but they aren't the same. Back in the day that T-Rex ruled the world, there already were crocodiles and snakes too. Modern reptiles and dinosaurs lives side-by-side.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Illuminati? No but there is Satan influencing our music! [/quote]
I'm sorry that you believe that. Governments do extort us. Governments are corrupt. Society needs to abolish them and form a fairer system where it's the people's votes that count when making an important choice. [/quote]
I'm sorry that you believe that. I guess you never vote on election day do you? I mean surely everyone in the government is corrupt, so why voting at all, right? *sarcasm*
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
So everything we use is augmentation? Wrong. Glasses can be taken off whenever we want. [/quote]
Glasses augment our eyes. So yes, they are augmentations in some way.
Augments like Deus Ex can also be removed (The Harvesters in Deus Ex do that. They kidnap people, remove their augments and sell them again in the criminal circuit).
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
I don't believe in people having sex changes. [/quote]
What do you mean you don't believe in sex changes? They happen and they are real, whether you like it or not.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
They are born the way they are and they need to accept that. [/quote]
Sometimes a boy is born in a girl's body. Sometimes a girl is born in a boy's body. It happens. Nature isn't perfect.
YOU need to accept that people are master over their own body. If someone wants a sex-change operation, they should be allowed to get it. Who the hell do you think you are to say otherwise?
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Tattos and piercings look silly on many people (mostly on those who have more than one) expecially since the human body is a form of ART where augmentation and piercings only go to change it. [/quote]
That's your opinion. And the human body isn't a form of art, it's a tool, a vessel. Piercings and tattoos however are a form of art.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
So you were actually there when evolution was happening? Okay Doctor Who.
If your evolution didn't give us what we needed, we wouldn't be alive right now. [/quote]
That simply just doesn't make any sense! Don't you understand anything at all?
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
You say augmentations will make life easier but in what way? The way where only augmentated people start getting jobs because they can work for days without sleep? The way where many companies start asking for augmentated people only? The way where augmentated people work faster and as a result, society changes and has us working for days without sleep? Yeah, you'd build a house quicker and easier but I don't see how this makes any difference from our current rate of work that people are going at. If anything, augmentations would only make life even more complicated and increase stress levels. [/quote]
NOW you are making valid arguments! FINALLY. It was about f*cking time that I finally had a worthy argument against me that is worthy to think about and reply too.
Now, while you make a valid argument, I don't think this is true. But as this is about the future, this is uncertain to say. I don't think augmentations make life even more complicated and it surely doesn't increase stress.
A few practical examples of how agumentations in fact could make life easier:
- Pilots could get augments that allows them to stay alert and awake during the entire flight. This makes the job of a pilot safer and easier. - Those same pilots could get augments that allows them to have surpreme vision. That makes flying in the night a lot easier and it also helps them with landing. - The SWAT police could get augmented eyes with build-in night vision and X-ray vision. This makes dangerous SWAT operations a lot safer and easier.
I can think of more examples but this comment is already getting way to long.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
I see that bold statement different from you then. You're harming the body by chopping off perfectly good limbs. [/quote]
I'm not harming the body if I replace those chopped-off limbs with BETTER biotic limbs. I'll improve my body. And again, it's my body. I can do with my body whatever the f*ck I want. How many times do I need to say this?
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Augmentations would become part of your body. Our body is what keeps us alive. You call it a tool, I call it a home. It doesn't need to change. I function through life perfectly as I am right now and so does the majority. We can use our hands and that's all that matters to advance. [/quote]
A home is a house, not a body. And a house is also a tool in essence. It's a tool that offers us shelter.
And again, everything you say is merely your OPINION. But why shoudl YOUR OPINION stop OTHER people from getting augmentations? Who the f*ck are you to say what OTHERS can or can't do with THEIR bodies?
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
You can't have both. [/quote]
Bullsh*t! Of course we can have both! This isn't a video-game where you are forced to choose Paragon or Renegade. There actually is something called a "middle path".
And in fact, technology will help us improve our lifes.
What you need to understand is, that technology isn't "good" nor "evil". Technology is neutral. Technology is as "good" or as "evil" as the person using it.
Technology can be used for "good", such as building homes, curing people, offering people information. Technology can also be used for "evil", such as guns, atomic bombs and weapons of mass destruction.
However, when everything goes wrong, we can not and should not blame it on the technology. The can only blame ourselves.
As Thane in Mass Effect said: "A weapon doesn't pick sides, only the user does." (or something like that)
I think I can better quote Einstein on this, as he said something similar but better:
"Concern for man himself and his fate must always form the chief interest of all technical endeavors, concern for the great unsolved problems of the organization of labor and the distribution of goods--in order that the creations of our mind shall be a blessing and not a curse to mankind. Never forget this in the midst of your diagrams and equations." - Albert Einstein
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Then that's why you're not a good spokesmen for augmentation. You care more about advancing technology than advancing society. [/quote]
That's simply not true. I care a lot for other people. I care about my friends, collegues, loved-ones, family. Heck, I even care about strangers!
The difference between you and me, is that you're trying to babysit mankind, while I think mankind is mature enough to make it's own decisions.
You're acting like a nanny, while I don't.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
If I said that I cared about other people and would rather that they LIVE till they were in their nineties, I'm a bad person and have no reason to care about my fellow man and wish for mankind to unite? I'm going to Hell for believing this because my sin is worst than Satan's. Caring about others is bad. I'd bet you'd be one of those people who walk past a crime. If I can help wounded animals, I can also help humans. Just as I care about animals, I care about humans because I am one too and care about where this society is heading. To care about society, you must care about humans and while I hate most for all the crimes they commit (murder, padophilia), I also wish that they would change for the better. I care in that way. [/quote]
And I care too. That's why I'm all FOR augmentations. It will make life easier for everyone if we do it right. We can't just blindly rush for ambition, but surely we shouldn't be afraid for new technology either.
We should embrace human augmentation, but we should do so wisely, with regulations and limitations.
My view on augmentation is pretty much this:
Seriously, watch that video and you'll understand where I'm coming from.
"It's in our nature to want to rise above our limits. Think about it, we were cold, so we harnesed fire. We were weak, so we invented tools. EVERY TIME we met an obstacle, we used creativity and ingenuity to overcome it. To stop pursuing the future in which technology and biology combined leading to the promise of a singularity, would mean to deny THE VERY ESSENCE of who we are. No doubt the road will get bumpy, hurting some people along the way. But won't achieving the dream be worth it? We can become the gods we have always been striving to be. We might as well get good at it."
Oh, does that bring a tear to my eye. Such beautiful words and I fully agree with them.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
What limitations eh? I'm saying that our bodies are already enough. It's God who fashioned and designed it like the magnificent artist that he is. [/quote]
God didn't design our bodies. God doesn't exist. I don't believe in God, so this argument is complete void.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
If we needed super vision or 1000 inch penises, we would have been created with them. [/quote]
Again, you're completely missing the point. Not only that, but what you say simply isn't true.
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
We've survived for as long as we have due to some humans deciding to work together. Technology doesn't matter for if humanity doesn't learn to unite, we are finished. [/quote]
No, we survived because we are smart and invented technology that made life easier. That is the ONLY reason why we dominate this planet today.
Other animals work together, but they don't dominate the planet. We do. Why? Because we discovered how to use fire and created technology based on it. Because we discovered how to use tools and created technology based on it. Because we discovered how to use electricity and created technology based on it.
Without our discoveries and technology, humans would still be little more than apes, similar to the chimpanzee.
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