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[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

@ thread title: 

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Male!Hawke's voice is Arl Vaughan's, and I know of several DA players who found it hard to play as him for this reason, due to the City Elf Origin.

These people are retarded.

It'd be like being unable to empathize with Lieutenant/Commissioner Gordon in the new Batman films because Gary Oldman also played Dracula and hijacked Air Force One.

Rape is a sensitive subject for some. If you want to tacitly call those who react to it retarded, go ahead.

[upsettingshorts]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Rape is a sensitive subject for some. If you want to tacitly call those who react to it retarded, go ahead.

Oh give me a break.

Ralph Fiennes played Amon Goeth in Schindler's List, pretty much one of the most despicable human beings to ever exist, yet everyone I know remains perfectly capable of watching any of his other films because he's just an actor. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 septembre 2011 - 03:18 .

[ipgd]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Rape is a sensitive subject for some. If you want to tacitly call those who react to it retarded, go ahead.

Nicholas Boulton is not actually a rapist.

[Mark of the Dragon]

I dont like the face persay but I dont dislike it either. I think its a step up from the other elves in DA2. I dont really mind the art style I just dont like how it looks like a cartoon. DARK fantasy epics should not look like cartoons. I hope they just make the artstyle a bit more real in the next installment. They can keep the art designs just with more realistic colors. AS for races PLEASE BIOWARE make my elves look cool and beautiful again

[upsettingshorts]

Mark of the Dragon wrote...

DARK fantasy epics should not look like cartoons. I hope they just make the artstyle a bit more real in the next installment.

Mark of the Dragon wrote...

AS for races PLEASE BIOWARE make my elves (?) look cool and beautiful again

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 septembre 2011 - 03:32 .

[ipgd]

Why does everyone keep using the word "cartoon". DA2's art style is nowhere even approaching the aesthetic of cartoons. You don't have to like the art direction, but I seriously can't think of a word to describe it that is less apt than "cartoon".

Can we stop picking these stupid buzzwords and redefining them to mean "anything I don't like"? It makes the whole issue of language a bit fraught when you start using words to mean literally anything.

[seraphymon]

ipgd wrote...

Why does everyone keep using the word "cartoon". DA2's art style is nowhere even approaching the aesthetic of cartoons. You don't have to like the art direction, but I seriously can't think of a word to describe it that is less apt than "cartoon".

Can we stop picking these stupid buzzwords and redefining them to mean "anything I don't like"? It makes the whole issue of language a bit fraught when you start using words to mean literally anything.

Maybe because it is cartoony? Being iconic is one thing and something easily achieved in DAO. But going with this cartoony style i felt didnt accomplish really in certain areas. Instead of say LOTR darkspawn we have skeletor darkspawn. Others IMO it did like say Qunari and evene Flemeth. BUt then again like i said they coulda upped the iconic stuff without going into the cartoony style with some of the fakest wigs and mustaches and worst fingers i have seen in a game in a long time.

[Dragoonlordz]

Childlike asthetics as opposed to cartoon then but even just using cartoon regarding "feeling" get from comparing watching cartoons to playing this game is fine. Some shiny others just plain rubbery smooth faces with overblown huge lips that all look like made of silicone, anorexic elves rather than slim but fit or healthy appearence. The chip shop greasy, lego themed plop on hair with poor texture and style on pretty much every character model in DA2. Velociraptor or exorcist like necks and lastly bubble eyes which are too large plus donkey ears.

That is feeling I get when look at elves and while I can say that Felicia facial features imported onto model in game looks atleast facially better than most in DA2 the tacky hair and silly neck ruins it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:05 .

[upsettingshorts]

seraphymon wrote...

Being iconic is one thing and something easily achieved in DAO.

You mean the game with the deliberately generic art style easily achieved iconic status?

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Childlike asthetics as opposed to cartoon then.

You guys really are just making these terms up as you go along, aren't you?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:05 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

seraphymon wrote...

Being iconic is one thing and something easily achieved in DAO.

You mean the game with the deliberately generic art style easily achieved iconic status?

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Childlike asthetics as opposed to cartoon then.

You guys really are just making these terms up as you go along, aren't you?

Your old avatar was better btw.

P.s. No, for when I see DA2 screenshots of characters and NPC's the immediate image that pops into my mind is word "playdough" and "lego"; a childs toy because that is the result of the asthetics and art style in game. From [lego] hair to baby face smooth [rubber/playdough] skin, huge elven eyes and silly lips and body shapes.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:11 .

[seraphymon]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

You mean the game with the deliberately generic art style easily achieved iconic status?

Yes. generic art style was merly easier than setting everyone up with unique body shapes. However Morrigan and other characters were already iconic enough for me.

Even so people were able to take the changes made to certain characters like Flemeth Isabela etc. and apply them to DAO. it isnt as polished as the DA2 counterparts, But changing for icnoic didnt really need such a drastic change. Updated graphics sure, but thats a different story.

[ipgd]

seraphymon wrote...

Maybe because it is cartoony? Being iconic is one thing and something easily achieved in DAO. But going with this cartoony style i felt didnt accomplish really in certain areas. Instead of say LOTR darkspawn we have skeletor darkspawn. Others IMO it did like say Qunari and evene Flemeth. BUt then again like i said they coulda upped the iconic stuff without going into the cartoony style with some of the fakest wigs and mustaches and worst fingers i have seen in a game in a long time.

Explain to me what you are using this word to mean, because it has absolutely nothing to do with my understanding of it in an artistic context. None of the things you described have any relation to the qualities of a cartoon or even the common aesthetic of modern western cartoons.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Childlike asthetics as opposed to cartoon then but even just using cartoon regarding "feeling" get from comparing watching cartoons to playing this game is fine. Some shiny others just plain rubbery smooth faces with overblown huge lips that all look like made of silicone, anorexic elves rather than slim but fit or healthy appearence. The chip shop greasy, lego themed plop on hair with poor texture and style on pretty much every character model in DA2. Velociraptor or exorcist like necks and lastly bubble eyes which are too large plus donkey ears.

That is feeling I get when look at elves and while I can say that Felicia facial features imported onto model in game looks atleast facially better than most in DA2 the tacky hair and silly neck ruins it.

How is any of that "childlike aesthetics"? Can you not just describe your grievances with the art direction specifically instead of mutilating the language by designating a completely unrelated word, with no respect to its actual definition, to be your catch-all negative buzzword? Do we really need these stupid negativistically loaded labels to discuss the problems with the game? Is it just not good enough for you if you can't throw out bull**** like "streamlined" and "cartoony" and "JRPG" to make sure everybody knows you are just repeating complaints you have seen other people post without any understanding of the actual rationale behind them?

[Apollo Starflare]

Well, I like her face and DA2 Elves in general. Think we've known for a while that DA3 will just be DA2 with a bit more polish added though, at least that's the impression I've gotten. Don't expect there to be big changes to the art style or graphics between installments this time.

[whykikyouwhy]

And so, it all comes down again to how the elves look. 

I find it somewhat sad that we, as a people, spend so much time declaring things ugly, and vying for things to be of a certain perfection in appearance. Yes, it's a fantasy game, and fantasy may imply a world of glossiness and light and a hearty golden sheen. But give me nuances, give me imperfections, give me vast and varied differences and let the game embrace them, because that's where the beauty really is.

I'm much more concerned with how characters behave than how they look.

[seraphymon]

ipgd wrote...

Explain to me what you are using this word to mean, because it has absolutely nothing to do with my understanding of it in an artistic context. None of the things you described have any relation to the qualities of a cartoon or even the common aesthetic of modern western cartoons.

Its hard to explain because as you yourself said. To you, you just dont see the connection or its not cartoony to you.

but the style feels less realistic. Thats prolly the best way i can put it. In DAo i felt as if  i almost was watching an actual RL movie at certain points. DA2 if it wasn't for being a game, it could be almost like a comic book as they have shown us. This coupled with how unrealistic the fighting is, just reinforces that issue in the back of my mind.

Even if the darkspawn of DAO was a cop out of LOTR or any other orcs that have been used in years past, at least it looked more real to me.

Modifié par seraphymon, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:28 .

[Dragoonlordz]

ipgd wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Childlike asthetics as opposed to cartoon then but even just using cartoon regarding "feeling" get from comparing watching cartoons to playing this game is fine. Some shiny others just plain rubbery smooth faces with overblown huge lips that all look like made of silicone, anorexic elves rather than slim but fit or healthy appearence. The chip shop greasy, lego themed plop on hair with poor texture and style on pretty much every character model in DA2. Velociraptor or exorcist like necks and lastly bubble eyes which are too large plus donkey ears.

That is feeling I get when look at elves and while I can say that Felicia facial features imported onto model in game looks atleast facially better than most in DA2 the tacky hair and silly neck ruins it.

How is any of that "childlike aesthetics"? Can you not just describe your grievances with the art direction specifically instead of mutilating the language by designating a completely unrelated word, with no respect to its actual definition, to be your catch-all negative buzzword?

I can but I won't, because I have the freedom to choose how I view and voice a situation and have no intention of being policed into using words only acceptable to someone else because of their own lack of understanding how the art style in something can remind you of and give you the feeling of something else.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:36 .

[upsettingshorts]

PuppyFlavour wrote...

Have any of your friends actually been in a concentration camp?

Touche.

seraphymon wrote...

Its hard to explain because as you yourself said. To you, you just dont see the connection or its not cartoony to you.

but the style feels less realistic. Thats prolly the best way i can put it. In DAo i felt as if  i almost was watching an actual RL movie at certain points. DA2 if it wasn't for being a game, it could be almost like a comic book as they have shown us. This coupled with how unrealistic the fighting is, just reinforces that issue in the back of my mind.

Even if the darkspawn of DAO was a cop out of LOTR or any other orcs that have been used in years past, at least it looked more real to me.

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I can but I won't, because I have the freedom to choose how I view and voice a situation and have no intention of being policed into using words only acceptable to someone else because of their own lack of understanding how the art style in something can remind you of and give you the feeling of something else.

I'm pretty sure there's more to art criticism and style than a single sliding scale between "realistic" and "cartoony."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:37 .

[ScotGaymer]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

And so, it all comes down again to how the elves look. 

I find it somewhat sad that we, as a people, spend so much time declaring things ugly, and vying for things to be of a certain perfection in appearance. Yes, it's a fantasy game, and fantasy may imply a world of glossiness and light and a hearty golden sheen. But give me nuances, give me imperfections, give me vast and varied differences and let the game embrace them, because that's where the beauty really is.

I'm much more concerned with how characters behave than how they look.

Yes it comes down to how they look.

The Elven race is supposed to be considered "pretty" by human standards in an alien sort of way; but it fails at this in DA2. They are not pretty, the entire race looks ugly and mentally retarded.
This is a problem.

If it were just one or two or whatever then it would be fine but the whole race looking weird?

I am not adverse to ugly characters; I would say that Sacred Ashes Morrigan and Leliana are uglier than the Leliana and Morrigan we got in game in DAO; yet one of the first things I did in DAO was download mods that made them look like their sacred ashes counterparts.
Ugly Morrigan and Leliana won the day for me.

I do not however like the DA2 elves because they are ALL ugly and weird looking. Not one of them not even Fenris and Merrill could be considered pretty.
Not even Tallis can be considered pretty and thats pretty sad because Felicia Day is a very pretty woman IMO IRL; its a poor retarded looking homage to her. No way she looked at that and was pleased about it.

[ipgd]

seraphymon wrote...

Its hard to explain because as you yourself said. To you, you just dont see the connection or its not cartoony to you.

"Cartoon" is not a subjective quality in ~*the eye of the beholder*~. It is a specific word that refers to a specific kind of media, and its use as an adjective applied to other media would imply that it shares commonalities with the popular aesthetics of that medium. Which Dragon Age 2 does not, at all. "Cartoony" is not the only kind of stylization.

but the style feels less realistic. Thats prolly the best way i can put it. In DAo i felt as if  i almost was watching an actual RL movie at certain points.

Really, neither of the games are particularly verisimilitudinous, but I don't really understand any of the assertions that DA2 was a regression in that regard. It was a horizontal progression in its worst areas, and a huge step forward in its best (DA2's face and body models are significantly more naturalistic than DAO's, for one).

DA2 if it was for a game could be almost like a comic book as they have shown us.

How? What specific parts of its art assets resemble popular comic books in any way?

[ScotGaymer]

@ipgd

Except the Elves. They dont look realistic at all.

[upsettingshorts]

What is a realistic elf?

[Dragoonlordz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I can but I won't, because I have the freedom to choose how I view and voice a situation and have no intention of being policed into using words only acceptable to someone else because of their own lack of understanding how the art style in something can remind you of and give you the feeling of something else.

I'm pretty sure there's more to art criticism and style than a single sliding scale between "realistic" and "cartoony."

There seems to be a scale for everything these days, however the scale has tipped in favour of plastic, rubber, lego, playdough when I look at DA2 character and NPC models. Those are the words that spring to mind upon first glance everytime look at DA2 character screenshot. Those words when combined with the fact that they spring to mind while looking at in game characters much akin to child toy figurines plastic dolls, rubber stretch men, lego toupee attachable toy hair, and playdough smooth skin and lack of texture much like plastercine men child might make... Links all those things to child like toys hence childlike aesthetics.

With regard to cartoon aspect, I tend to use it in regard only to the "feeling" get from the over the top animations of spells and flashy combat being sort of thing I see when might watch a fight scene in a cartoon. As for appearence itself I have no problem using 'childlike' instead for reason stated above.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:47 .

[ipgd]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I can but I won't, because I have the freedom to choose how I view and voice a situation and have no intention of being policed into using words only acceptable to someone else because of their own lack of understanding how the art style in something can remind you of and give you the feeling of something else.

Then explain to me the commonalities between Dragon Age 2's art style and cartoons, because I have studied art for basically my entire life and I don't see anything that relates to actual cartoons. Besides that other people have recently started using the word "cartoon" to describe what they do not like about DA2, and you are repeating those complaints without actually understanding them.

If you want to insist on deliberately obfuscating your statements by describing them with terms that have absolutely nothing to do with the problems you actually have, be my guest, but it still makes your arguments incredibly specious and sort of out of place in any sort of rational context.

Modifié par ipgd, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:45 .

[whykikyouwhy]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Yes it comes down to how they look.

The Elven race is supposed to be considered "pretty" by human standards in an alien sort of way; but it fails at this in DA2. They are not pretty, the entire race looks ugly and mentally retarded.
This is a problem.

If it were just one or two or whatever then it would be fine but the whole race looking weird?

I am not adverse to ugly characters; I would say that Sacred Ashes Morrigan and Leliana are uglier than the Leliana and Morrigan we got in game in DAO; yet one of the first things I did in DAO was download mods that made them look like their sacred ashes counterparts.
Ugly Morrigan and Leliana won the day for me.

I do not however like the DA2 elves because they are ALL ugly and weird looking. Not one of them not even Fenris and Merrill could be considered pretty.
Not even Tallis can be considered pretty and thats pretty sad because Felicia Day is a very pretty woman IMO IRL; its a poor retarded looking homage to her. No way she looked at that and was pleased about it.

Wow...ok. Regarding the bolded bits, and your generalizations and use of slurs (because, yes, "retarded" is a slur), I don't know if Bioware will ever make something perfect enough for you.

Beauty is subjective. I've said this in previous anti-new-elf-look threads before (and gotten flamed for it...whatever), and I adhere to it now. But I find it rather insulting that you feel the need to make your point with inappropriate and insensitive terminology.