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Pain Monster Pack Issues


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#1
Banshe

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Okay, so I have been going over Pain's Monster Pack with a fine tooth comb and discovered some issues listed below. This post is mainly directed at Pain but I chose to put it here so that others can list any bugs they have found and I didn't want this post to get lost in the "addidas" shuffle in the vault comments. I felt this was a justifiable move as Pain's Monster Pack is an indispensable part of our community.

General Comments:

1. It seems like the size variations are not varied. In the toolset at least, the large, small, medium creatures are all the same size. Perhaps it is different in-game with the DM client

2. There are some placeable file in some of the packs (a sarcophagus in the misc hak and a larva "something" in another pack).

3. Some monsters have visual effects that go with them. I think it would be helpful if those with these effects be listed as such so that people are aware of them. Perhaps a "(vfx)" next to their name.

4. TheFred and Shaughn have made comments on the vault page about errors in line 127 and 129 (Ogre and Ogre Mage).



MISC Hak:


Dracolich: There is a dracolich model in the hak. It is not in the vault list and there is another dracolich model in the "Converts" hak (where it is listed). So what is this Dracolich and where does it fit in?

Dragon Texture: Just for clarification, this is a Red Dragon reskin to make it colorless so that is can be completely retinted. Is that correct? Is there more to it?

Great Apes: This is an alternate uthraki head without the wraparound eyes. Is that correct?

Rakshasa: This is female human only, right?

Sarcophagus: This is a placeable (with no 2da).

Then there are a number of files which puzzled me. They may be straightforward but perhaps they can also be listed on the vault page:
a. fx_umberhulk_eyes
b. fx_yellow_eyes
c. p_ddm_cl_body
d. p_eem_cl_body
e. p_ggm_cl_body
f. p_hhf_* - I assume these are Raksasha files
g. p_hhm_* - I assume this is a Raksasha file
h. p_hzm_* - I assume these are Raksasha files
i. p_oom_cl_body38 - I assume this is a Raksasha file
j. horn_test - Is this texture for the unicorn?


MISC2 Hak:

Polar Bear: This model is not listed in the vault entry but works in the toolset.

Panda Bear: This model is not listed in the vault entry but works in the toolset.

Gibbering orb: I could not find this (the sef file) in the hak

Clay Golem: Model not in hak

Doppleganger: Model not in hak

Gibberling: Model not in hak

Mimic: Model not in hak

Sicarius: Model not in hak



PURG Hak:

Razorvine: This is a placeable but there is no placeable.2da file here

Intellect Devourer: Has line 2059 in appearance.2da but models are not in this hak



PURG 2 Hak:

Trollocs: The wheel of time trollocs from the vault work fine. The other trollocs in the 2da do not have properly attached heads



REE Hak:

Yuan-ti Abomination: cannot find a line for this in the 2da but it seems to appear in game


RWS Hak

Below are some errors in the vault list for RWS:


Hammerhead Shark: There are two sharks

Mako Shark: There are two sharks

Stirge: mentioned twice in the vault list

Worm: Not sure what this is. Perhaps a duplicate of the purple worm entry

Tigers: Not on vault list

Lions: Not on vault list

Smilodon: has tintable version


For Hellfire Only:

doberman: for hellfire: not on his vault page list but in screenshots
german shepard: for hellfire: not on his vault page list but in screenshots
 

Modifié par Banshe, 17 septembre 2011 - 06:44 .


#2
The Fred

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I also mentioned the lack of the models in Misc2 somewhere, but I can't remember if it was actually on the Vault page. Note that the appearance works fine if the models are added in their own haks or via the override or campaign folder.

#3
Banshe

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The Fred wrote...

I also mentioned the lack of the models in Misc2 somewhere, but I can't remember if it was actually on the Vault page. Note that the appearance works fine if the models are added in their own haks or via the override or campaign folder.


Yep. Those missing models should appear if you put them in your own hak. But I'm hoping that Pain will add them into his so that this monster pack can be all it can be. ;)

#4
painofdungeoneternal

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Big long list.

The ogre issues were fixed in my downloadable 2da for appearance, which is the latest version. Its direct from my drop box which is up to date. Also have fixed some other noted issues.

First of all the project is solely related to appearance.2da, this makes it portable, and usable as is. This is how it's defined, not based on it just being a monster. Right now my version of appearance.2da can be used by pretty much every PW or module as is, regardless of setting, and quite often it can just be dropped in with only minor issues if they have conflicting rows in their current 2da. By definition, it is appearance.2da, and the overall model and sef haks and NOTHING else for any reason, especially placeables.2da, that is another entirely different project. I have also provided any blueprints as they are which i use or have found, but they are complete garbage, but should help you figure out how certain creatures are setup, and a pdf on how to set up blueprints. I've asked repeatedly for people to work on blueprints of standard creatures, but it's not really something people are wanting to focus on.

Sizes of creatures are not scaled, even thought they are marked as such. I think they have the size category changed only, which affects AC and damage but does not actually affect the visual size, which is why they are labeled different. This is because they were not scaled in the original contents 2da but in the blueprint, and if i fix it myself, it will break existing content/blueprints, which makes this something i won't ever do. ( There was a familiar and companion project which those are from if memory serves ). My project supports as wide as possible set of projects, with duplicated rows with original values if i have to change something, and any legacy or wonky items marked as hidden in the label.

Misc2.hak, as i use it on my PW has all those models -- or at least i see those models with my appearance viewer in game so i know i have them somewhere. I know i uploaded it to the vault, but i also know the vault is pretty flaky. Since i saw the sicarus model, which you say is not listed, that makes me think the vault version, or your version is out of date. Frankly i despise using the vault, just because it's far too much effort getting what is on there, and to verify it's actually there. I'll have to look and see what the issues is, quite often when i am helping someone setup their content--which is why there is a monster pack to begin with, i just have them log into my PW and download the latest version. I will have to double check what's on the vault, and on my pw, and try to get the correct version in use, or just reupload it all again.

Rakasha is just a clothing and head, the other things you are pointing out i'd have to look at more closely, but p_ee, p_dd and p_hh are elf, dwarf and human models respectively. The rakasha is just a clothing and head, just like how ree did the original yuan ti prior to SOZ coming out. Think its the following files.
P_HZM_CL_Body38.tga
P_HHM_CL_Body38.mdb
P_EEM_CL_Body38.mdb
P_GGM_CL_Body38.mdb
P_HZM_CL_Body38_N.tga
P_OOM_CL_Body38.mdb
P_HZM_CL_Body38_t.tga
P_DDM_CL_Body38.mdb

Probably could document things a 1000 times better, but if i have time to do that, I'd probably spend that improving my CSL documentation which i still have to finish, and the model naming conventions which actually were originally my notes, it likely would help you figure out how things work. Select the human blueprint in toolset, and flip thru the clothing and heads, the model is related to the number shown deviated by 1, with that you will see the rakasha and ree's yuan ti.

The eyes are vfx applied to blueprints, all vfx related to creatures is provided.

Horn test is part of the unicorn content. Not really keeping track of every file to that level of detail, much of this i did more than a year ago, and it's not really something you can keep track of in excel.

Purgatory stuff is a bit wonky, it was never totally finished and it's mostly what i could get working out of their demo version. The trolloc content is largely where they got theirs from, and without me redoing the models, how you see it working is about as good as i could get it. If you have fixes, or new files, please post them, or just volunteer to help them in their project. I'd really like a working slaadi and vrock just to get some class spells working, and parity with content from NWN1.

If you have additions, changes and the like, and those things add options for all users without limiting existing options, just post them or forward them to me and i'll put them in. I'm not really focused on it at the moment, and will likely do my next real update when i hear hellfire has released all his creatures ( or just releases the models as i can do the appearance stuff he seems to not like so much ). Basically when he releases is when my pack gets completely out of date, so i try to stay coordinated. My current projects are related to overall NWN2 content management, how to list worlds on gamespy, merging 2da content, and getting some of sort of ADL working in single player, basically moving from scripting into higher level programming. ( and trying to figure out how skywing does some of what he does )

My goal is to make a real system to syncing all official ADL content, in a way that works for SP and MP. This would mean you'd have to run a program to download the correct ADL files, using check boxes to select which ones you'd like, and a tool to attach the multitude of haks to modules, and merge any 2da or tlk entries. For those with a single massive hak, it would do CRC type checks and remove content already available in ADL and attach those haks. This would cater to diversity, in that anyone can nominate a piece of content to be ADL, and you could host it on the vault, on drop box, or whereever, and it would get CRC type checks. Then SP folks could use this tool to install a module, and MP folks could choose to use it or the current ADL which will work the same way.

Note my latest version of neverworker happens to have an appearance.2da editor, which should make what i've done so far, much easier for others to do who have just started learning how to set things up.

#5
Banshe

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Thanks for responding Pain. All this stuff is very recent (within the last month) with the exception of the vault comments by TheFred and Shaughn. Those I just included but did not verify. If possible, it would be great if you could give me a heads up when these are done so I can run through them again and recheck.

Also, I'm quite curious about the Intellect Devourer as mentioned above. In that 2da line, you wrote "DEL" which I assume means delete. Is that correct?

Lastly, what of the placeables here and that second dracolich?

Modifié par Banshe, 18 septembre 2011 - 04:22 .


#6
kamal_

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There are two dracoliches on the vault for nwn2. One is a convert of the nwn1 version. One is a reskin of the red dragon. That could be it.

#7
painofdungeoneternal

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Banshe wrote...

Thanks for responding Pain. All this stuff is very recent (within the last month) with the exception of the vault comments by TheFred and Shaughn. Those I just included but did not verify. If possible, it would be great if you could give me a heads up when these are done so I can run through them again and recheck.

Also, I'm quite curious about the Intellect Devourer as mentioned above. In that 2da line, you wrote "DEL" which I assume means delete. Is that correct?

Lastly, what of the placeables here and that second dracolich?


I am not ever going to put placeables into my pack. My pack does not need merging, or at least much, and that would be part of a placeables pack of some sort. I've been asked to expand into racial subtypes, placeables, even classes, which i am not against, it's just not ever going to be part of this project.

DEL means it's not working at all, or i moved it to a new line so am deleting it. Basically that row is deprecated for whatever reason, and only still there in case something out there is using it.

No idea on a second dracolich, the one i am using is just the original one converted from NWN1.

#8
kamal_

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This is the other dracolich. It's a reskin of the red dragon.

nwvault.ign.com/View.php

#9
The Fred

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[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
I've asked repeatedly for people to work on blueprints of standard creatures, but it's not really something people are wanting to focus on.[/quote]
I might have a couple knocking about if you're still interested. I know I was thinking of making a couple of PnP monsters and I can't remember whether I did them or not.

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
Sizes of creatures are not scaled, even thought they are marked as such. I think they have the size category changed only, which affects AC and damage but does not actually affect the visual size, which is why they are labeled different.[/quote]
This actually makes a lot of sense. It's always annoyed me how you can't change the game rules with regards to size. Yeah you can scale something to 1000 times bigger but if it still gets a +2 dodge bonus to AC for being tiny, it's kind of silly.

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
Misc2.hak, as i use it on my PW has all those models -- or at least i see those models with my appearance viewer in game so i know i have them somewhere. I know i uploaded it to the vault, but i also know the vault is pretty flaky. Since i saw the sicarus model, which you say is not listed, that makes me think the vault version, or your version is out of date.[/quote]
I got my version off the Vault, and yes it may be out of date but certainly all the documentation said it had those models in it. Just checked it now and the only models it has are the panda, teletubbies, larvae and what looks like a robot.

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
I'd really like a working slaadi and vrock just to get some class spells working, and parity with content from NWN1.
[/quote]
I agree, this would be very cool.

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
My current projects are related to overall NWN2 content management, how to list worlds on gamespy, merging 2da content, and getting some of sort of ADL working in single player, basically moving from scripting into higher level programming. ( and trying to figure out how skywing does some of what he does )[/quote]
Kind of off-topic for this thread but I'd be interested in hearing more about where you are thinking of going with a few of these things. I've been after some smarter Custom Content system for while now but alas I'm not much of a programmer and I kind of dropped my project, such as it was, a while ago.[/quote]

#10
Banshe

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@ Pain: I think you misunderstood me. There are placeables in your Monster pack. I wasn't asking you to put placeables into the pack, I was asking you why they were put in the pack. :D

Regarding the Intellect Devourer, do you happen to remember your experiences with it? Why it almost made it in but not quite?

#11
painofdungeoneternal

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Those probably were just content from some creature package of some sort which i am including. Not really supporting that, but still only focusing on what is in appearance.2da.

The things which don't work gave wonky appearances on screen, mainly those are from purgatorio. This could be a missing file, a skeleton that does not work, regardless it would require someone like hellfire or a modeler like them to fix. I basically got what could work, via redoing mdb's in a hex editor and appearance.2da edits.

You really should pop into my PW and see if misc2 is bigger, my copy is 54 megs in size, the one on the vault is 13 megs. I am dead certain i uploaded the 54 meg version so i assume its the issue i noticed working with hellfire where updating did not update things even though it got uploaded. If it's not 54 megs, that is the issues plain and simple.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 19 septembre 2011 - 03:07 .


#12
Banshe

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Cool. Can you upload the correct hak then? Those that come behind me are going to encounter this issue as well so it is best fixed on the vault. :)

#13
painofdungeoneternal

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Yes i know, when i get a chance i will sort it out. From what i remember it ends up taking a while to get it fixed.

#14
Banshe

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I was thinking that it may be better to rewrite these issues in a more straightforward manner. It may also make fixing things easier. This is everything relisted including the things you have already mentioned and said you were going to look into (i.e. the missing models). So here goes.

Please make the following corrections to the text in the description on the vault:

MISC Hak:

Add "fx_umberhulk_eyes" to the list
Add "fx_yellow_eyes" to the list

MISC 2 Hak:

Add "Polar Bear" to the list
Add "Panda Bear" to the list

RWS Hak

Delete "Shark" from the list
Add "Mako Shark" to the list
Add "Hammerhead Shark" to the list
Delete "Stirge" from the list
Delete "Worm" from the list
Add "Tiger" to the list
Add "Lions" to the list

Please add the following models to the following haks:

MISC 2 Hak:

Gibbering Orb (sef)
Clay Golem
Doppleganger
Gibberling
Mimic
Sicarius

PURG:

Intellect Devourer


Please remove the following files from the following haks:

MISC Hak

sarcophagus placeable

MISC 2

larva placeable

PURG Hak:

Razorvine placeable

Modifié par Banshe, 19 septembre 2011 - 07:31 .


#15
Banshe

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Thanks pain for updating the MISC pack with the missing models. Any chance you could fix the other issues mentioned in the post above this one?

#16
painofdungeoneternal

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I just put the correct file up ( vault is wonky )

I'll have to look at the other things.

#17
Hellfire_RWS

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Vault is working?
I plan on updating the RWS creature pack soon.

#18
painofdungeoneternal

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Tell me when you do so, so i can make sure my stuff matches. :)

( pains monster pack i think is half RWS )

#19
Hellfire_RWS

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Right now the update will include

CinderSpawn
Gorgon
2 Ice trolls
Yeti

#20
Banshe

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painofdungeoneternal wrote...

I just put the correct file up ( vault is wonky )

I'll have to look at the other things.


I saw that. The MISC pack now has the missing monsters (mimic etc.).  Thanks. :)

#21
Shallina

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Still no ankheg in the RWS pack ? :(

#22
The Fred

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Hooray!

Doppelgangers for all!