210 réponses à ce sujet

[whykikyouwhy]

Rojahar wrote...

Bethany doesn't seem to show off any more cleavage than you'd see from like... any woman at a Renaissance Festival, no? I mean, didn't a lot of women wear corsets and tops that exposed a fair bit of cleavage?I wouldn't really know, so if I'm wrong inform me.

I do think it's silly though that some people are so upset that there's an attractive female you can't romance, as if all attractive people should exist solely for sexual relations.

You're correct about Renaissance Festivals.

You're quite nifty cool for the last sentence.

[hoorayforicecream]

From what I've seen, commoners wear shoulder-baring plunging necklines. Noblewomen wear high-necked dresses. I just ran around lowtown and took a few pics of the ladies I saw there.

[Reno_Tarshil]

She's not hot, she's attractive but that fact she's hawke's sister who i'm roleplaying as detracts from the sex appeal factor.

[TRSniper4]

I think whether or not you see the outfit as being sexual might depend on where you live, too. I'm from southern Illinois, and if I ever saw a woman showing that much cleavage, I'd assume that she is at least relatively easy to bed. Someone from elsewhere might disagree with me, though.

[DrFumb1ezX]

TRSniper4 wrote...

I think whether or not you see the outfit as being sexual might depend on where you live, too. I'm from southern Illinois, and if I ever saw a woman showing that much cleavage, I'd assume that she is at least relatively easy to bed. Someone from elsewhere might disagree with me, though.

Yeah, in Florida, where there are tank tops/bikinis galore, it's kinda hard guess what type a woman is based on looks.
(Then again, i may not be the best judge of people. Just FYI.)
Besides, I'm pretty sure everyone grew up in a different place with different ideas. Kinda hard to blantantly say "Your wrong!" without looking at it from their PoV.:happy:

[whykikyouwhy]

TRSniper4 wrote...

I think whether or not you see the outfit as being sexual might depend on where you live, too. I'm from southern Illinois, and if I ever saw a woman showing that much cleavage, I'd assume that she is at least relatively easy to bed. Someone from elsewhere might disagree with me, though.

True. It could be a regional/environmental/cultural thing. But I guess what I find a bit unfortunate is that it's what a person wears that sometimes dictates that kind of assumption, when it should be what a person does.

[Pasquale1234]

TRSniper4 wrote...

I think whether or not you see the outfit as being sexual might depend on where you live, too. I'm from southern Illinois, and if I ever saw a woman showing that much cleavage, I'd assume that she is at least relatively easy to bed. Someone from elsewhere might disagree with me, though.

I've been thinking the same thing.  From where I sit, any woman who displays herself like that or walks like FemHawke is generally viewed as someone who is purposely seeking sexual attention.

[Eyeshield21]

I'm thinking that she'll(bethany) be a LI for DA3 or another DA game if people start demanding for it( though they might just put her in just because, but I don't know).

[Eyeshield21]

naledgeborn wrote...

Hawwwt. [/Oghren]

lol

[Veex]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dear straight-peeps,

If you ever feel the need to begin a thread with a statement that you aren't queer, you are probably about to say something rather foolish. The only exception to this would be a statement akin to, "I'm not gay, but M!Hawke/Anders is the best romance in the game."

I'm not gay but I agree with your post.

Please Dave, stop talking foolish!

[Addai]

Rojahar wrote...

TRSniper4 wrote...

I think whether or not you see the outfit as being sexual might depend on where you live, too. I'm from southern Illinois, and if I ever saw a woman showing that much cleavage, I'd assume that she is at least relatively easy to bed. Someone from elsewhere might disagree with me, though.

There are places in the world where people would think that of even Aveline, for daring to expose so much as her face. If certain regions in the world think lowly of women based on their appearance, or thinking they shouldn't be on the battlefield at all, it's not really something Bioware can fix. Where I live, people wear a lot less than Bethany does in the Summer, and we don't stone them for it. It seems like any female character who doesn't dress like a puritan is called a wh*re on these forums. It's unfortunate how much sexism there still is these days.

The OP and others in this discussion are women.

It's not "sexism."  In fact, it's a charge that the game devs are sexualizing the character.  Whether you agree with that or not, that's a different question, but at least DON'T frame this as "puritan burqa wearers" vs. "libertines."  Personally I just think the outfit is stupid, for juxtaposing a chain mail corset with an exposed neck.  That's not sexist, it's a desire to see women dressed with some sort of logic other than ogling purposes.

Picture mHawke running around in a chainmail cuirass and loincloth.  Maybe that will make the objection clearer to you.

[whykikyouwhy]

Sexism pertains to attitudes or behavior based on stereotypes of sexual roles. I don't think that men hold the monopoly on sexism or sexist statements.

Whether Bethany's outfit "makes sense" is one thing - that could deal solely with its practicality in battle. But, whether or not she is an oversexualized character based on that outfit is something else.

If you look at the images that hoorayforicecream posted yesterday, the off the shoulder look is common in Kirkwall, and most likely was common in Fereldan. To parallel RL medieval fashion, ladies of various station often had much more of their chest area exposed. So this really isn't something specific to Bethany - her fashion sense is fitting for a young woman of Thedas (and not an outfit for battle since she probably just ran out of her house to escape the darkspawn when we first see her).

[elearon1]

whykikyouwhy wrote...


Whether Bethany's outfit "makes sense" is one thing - that could deal solely with its practicality in battle.

And most importantly, it looks good.  Don't most people buy clothes with the intention of looking good when wearing them?  If I have a chest to show off, (and I do, but it's a Varric kind of chest) I'm going to buy clothes which allow me to do just that. (and I do) 

[Quething]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
So this really isn't something specific to Bethany - her fashion sense is fitting for a young woman of Thedas (and not an outfit for battle since she probably just ran out of her house to escape the darkspawn when we first see her).

Which does of course prompt the question "why can't we, in that case, change her into something a little more bloody sensible for combat once we're well-off mercenaries/smugglers buying our own armor and fighting every day."

But that's an entirely different argument. As far as Beth herself goes, her outfit is silly, because the chainmail marks it as clearly being armor, but it's actually no worse than Carver's -- not "no worse than" the way comics fans mean when they say Namor makes up for every female superhero ever, but genuinely no worse -- so I'm okay with it. What bugs me is her treatment in the intro (Carver gets epic Warden armor, Bethany gets big ******? Now that is a sign of sexually-motivated disrespect).

And the female walk cycle. Nothing could ever possibly begin to excuse the walk cycle.

Modifié par Quething, 19 septembre 2011 - 08:16 .

[Shadow Fox]

Quething wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...
So this really isn't something specific to Bethany - her fashion sense is fitting for a young woman of Thedas (and not an outfit for battle since she probably just ran out of her house to escape the darkspawn when we first see her).

Which does of course prompt the question "why can't we, in that case, change her into something a little more bloody sensible for combat once we're well-off mercenaries/smugglers buying our own armor and fighting every day."

But that's an entirely different argument. As far as Beth herself goes, her outfit is silly, because the chainmail marks it as clearly being armor, but it's actually no worse than Carver's -- not "no worse than" the way comics fans mean when they say Namor makes up for every female superhero ever, but genuinely no worse -- so I'm okay with it. What bugs me is her treatment in the intro (Carver gets epic Warden armor, Bethany gets big ******? Now that is a sign of sexually-motivated disrespect).

And the female walk cycle. Nothing could ever possibly begin to excuse the walk cycle.

Varric's a perv that's why Beth has huge ****** in the intro.

[whykikyouwhy]

Varric's version of the prologue is intended to be exaggerated - hence Hawke has Champion armor, Carver is wearing bulky armor and Bethany is overly endowed. When the prologue is actually normal gameplay, everyone is in some standard attire and Bethany's bosom is a proportional size. Her outfit makes sense for the prologue and act 1, just as her later appearance makes sense.

I just don't see her as overly sexualized (other than in Varric's version). She's a young Thedan woman wearing clothes in the style of the times. The chainmail may not necessarily dictate armor so much as fashion, or its just a clever blending of the two.

As for the walk, I take it that you mean the way the female characters walk in the game? If so, that could be due to whoever they used for their motion model. Some people sway when they walk, some don't.

[Everwarden]

Best. Thread. Ever.

Though in all seriousness, romancing Bethany should have been an option. If only to give Fox News something to go on about for a month.

[Sith Grey Warden]

At least she doesn't have huge-breasts-in-tight-outfit thing going like all the sixty-year old priests in Origins.

[SirGladiator]

I don't think Bethany's outfit is at all inappropriate or over the top, its quite reasonable. The fact that she is, arguably, the most beautiful character in the game is more about the fact that other characters could, and probably should, be more attractive than they are, I doubt Bethany was intended all along to be the best looking character in the game, it just worked out that way. Hopefully DA3 will have so many beautiful women that Bethany, if she's in DA3, will just be one of many .

[Kidd]

She's a beautiful woman, not a sexualised one. I mean gosh, I hate on chainmail bikini a -lot- but applying that kind of whine to Bethany? No, the thought has never crossed my mind, and I just can't see her as being sexualised no matter how I look. 99% of the girls I see daily wear more revealing clothes than her when the temperature allows it.

[Eyeshield21]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

At least she doesn't have huge-breasts-in-tight-outfit thing going like all the sixty-year old priests in Origins.

wait, they did? I completely missed it.
Anyways, Bethany is freakin hot but in a sunshine sort of way, she is beatiful and kind and always thinks of the family and her mother first, then herself next(plus I'm hoping she will be a LI in DA3)

Modifié par Eyeshield21, 20 septembre 2011 - 11:24 .

[Masako52]

Yeah.... okay.

There are two issues here: One is that video game females tend to be sexualized in costume and body. With the stereotype that gamers are all males, from a feminist's perspective, it's troublesome to have women characters disproportionately sexualized.

The other issue is what I'm seeing from the OP and some commenters - that a woman isn't allowed to show her stuff unless she's a "sl*t", and having cleavage is a bad thing. From a feminist's perspective, this is ALSO an extremely unfair accusation. Women can dress however they want to, and that gives you absolutely no right to judge their own sexuality. Furthermore, having cleavage and showing it a little doesn't have to mean "I love sex", sometimes a girl just wants to wear something that she feels comfortable or even pretty in.

I'm a woman gamer, and think DA2 does a good job in portraying women. Yes, there are some "sexualized" women, like Isabela, but being sexual is NOT a bad thing. It's part of her character. There are real women who are sexual, etc. I think if the costume makes sense for the character, that's fine. In contrast we have Aveline who is not sexual and dresses like a warrior - shall we say a "gender neutral" costume. And it makes sense for her - if they had dressed Aveline in a tiny skirt and bikini top, like some video game companies might very well have done, it would have been out of character and blatantly fanservice.

I have to say, though. I'm a lesbian, and I appreciate a girl's good form and "assets", if you will - but there was nothing sexual about Bethany in my opinion. She was a pretty girl, and she have cleavage. But I always thought she dressed quite modestly. The overall effect wasn't "sexy", it was "nice looking" in a girl next door kind of way. As pointed out before, cleavage is pretty common in Renn-style outfits, and clearly in Kirkwall women don't feel the need to hide behind high necklines.

[Masako52]

Also, adding, I find it a little disturbing that so many of you think that Bethany showing off some cleavage is "gross" because she's related to Hawke. So... just because she's obviously not a love interest, she has to dress like a nun? She's not allowed to dress fashionably or in a way that's the least bit coy because she's supposed to be aware that her brother/sister is the main character in the story?

The girl can dress how she wants, sheesh. I guess this is gamer ego, people getting mad because they can't shag everyone who looks the least bit shaggable.

Though I'm not disclaiming the intent of the OP's post, though I do disagree - I DO think it's possible for a character's outfit to be "out of character" and not make sense (not without a lot more explanation, anyway, on why a female warrior is okay with having so much exposed skin, especially when such an outfit is completely contradictory to the outfits of her fellow guardsmen). For example, as I said before, if Aveline had been wearing a bikini, that would have felt extremely out of character. I love Fenris, but I feel like it's out of character for him not to be wearing shoes.

My problem with this thread is only that it's judging women by how they dress. And saying that because Bethany is "nice" she's not allowed to show her stuff a little.