30 réponses à ce sujet

[C Barchuk]

One of the biggest issues I have at times is trying to figure out how to equip my party in an effective way. I've only recently gotten out of Chateau Irenicus so I've only done a few quests thus far.  My party is currently:

1. PC Bounty Hunter- Currently single wielding a short sword but have been mainly using crossbows. I know they're slower but I'm just experimenting with different combinations.
2. Nalia- Slings
3. Valygar-Still has his sword and using a long bow
4. Mazzy- Using a short bow
5. Jahiera- Scimitar and shield
6. Haven't picked up a 6th companion yet. Thinking of grabbing Anomen or maybe Keldorn.

So there ya go. What are some optimal weapon/gear configs for various NPCs I have. I am using the rogue rebalancing mod so my bounty hunter does have 3 pips in dual wielding. I had planned on going that route or maybe just staying ranged. Now I know Belm is ultimately one of the best off hand weapons to use for a dual wielder. Does that still hold true through ToB?

[corey_russell]

1. For short sword, highest enchantment short sword is sword of mask +4. Arbane's very handy for enemies who can hold, such as demons. There's cutthroat too but can't get that until much later.
2. Naila - think she would be better off using a short bow (she's part thief), more attacks per round, not to mention several very good short bows, and one you can get early Tasheron's short bow (available after you solve the Trademeet Genie problem). That bow doesn't even require ammunition.
3. Since Valygar is a ranger, he gets ** in dual wielding so if he's in the front, he should use something like 2 katanas. Also he's a stalker so he will do the most damage if he keep him stealthed most of the time for a backstab. If in the back, long bow is fine.
4. Mazzy - short bow - her proficiencies definitely make this a good choice. Tasheron's bow, Tuigan's bow (drops from the Beastmaster at the Copper Coronet) and Gesen's short bow (only available later) are all good choice.
5. Jaheira - if in the back, sling or darts, but because she has ** club, in SoA at least her strongest tanking weapon (at least when I use her) is the blackblood club - available after you solve the Trademeet genie problem.
6. Anomen - Flail of Ages is a natural choice for him though he doesn't start in any proficiencies with it at first. Any warhammer or mace is good until then. If ranged sling is best he can do I think.

These are just my opinions, there may be better choices. These choices have served me well when I have used them however.

[C Barchuk]

Thanks a bunch for the feedback Corey.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

C Barchuk wrote...
1. PC Bounty Hunter- Currently single wielding a short sword but have been mainly using crossbows. I know they're slower but I'm just experimenting with different combinations.

For backstabs, staves are probably the best option. Since you can only invest 1 point into them (+ another one for two handed weapon style), you are not going to lose too much to this specialisation. (Short Sword of Backstabbing may raise your backstabbing multiplier by 1, but if the difference in damage between Staff of Striking (or Staff of the Ram, later) and your main short sword times 5 is more than the total damage of your short sword, you should backstab with staves.
Mazzy would probably get more out of Kundane, so I'd leave it to her unless you feel that your main character should be the most effective party member. There should be no reason (except role playing) to go with a short sword as your main weapon for normal combat though, so I'd probably go with long swords until you get Celestial Fury. If you have the bonus merchants installed, once you have reached UAI, your off-hand weapon for non-backstabbing, non-Assassination is Scarlet Ninja-To.
For Assassinations, you might want to go with the Short Sword of Backstabbing + Belm?

2. Nalia- Slings

Tuigan if you need a weapon for her. That's thrice as many attacks. Mazzy is better with it, but unless you're using a mod that reintroduces proper ranged damage bonuses, Mazzy wants to melee. Of course, Nalia should be casting spells.

3. Valygar-Still has his sword and using a long bow

If you have the bonus merchant (I feel like I'm repeating this particular piece of advice a lot lately), give him Flail of Ages + Defender of Easthaven - it's the perfect combination for him. Otherwise I'd probably train him for Axe + Hammer dualwielding.

4. Mazzy- Using a short bow

No bows for warriors. Even with GWW and 10 hits with Arrows +3 and a Bow +5, that's only an average total damage of 35. (+ proficiency bonuses)
She can do so much more in melee.

5. Jahiera- Scimitar and shield

Give her Belm for her left hand and upgrade her right hand with whatever is at that moment the best weapon for her. In the end probably going to be Spectral Brand-Belm.

6. Haven't picked up a 6th companion yet. Thinking of grabbing Anomen or maybe Keldorn.

Keldorn wants two handed swords. Anomen would want the FoA-DoE combination I suggested for Valygar (so you'd better give it to Anomen and have Anomen go with the back-up plan). Anomen should dualwield because he is a level 7 dualclass, so he doesn't have very many APR.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 18 septembre 2011 - 02:25 .

[morbidest2]

Jaheira is always a debate of short term (clubs, scimitar) versus quarterstaffs (long term). I always figure its better to put the ability points in 2H weaons and quarterstaff to be ready for the staff of Nature, as well as the buyable +4 staff of Krynn to teach Kangaxx a little respect. Another issue is whether you're going to do the necessary Underdark stuff to finish Crom Fayr. If so, do you want your PC to put ability points in warhammers ? ToB has so many +5 weapons that anything will work there, but for the end of SoA I want to have as many good +4 weapons as possible, so I would think about having Mazzy have long sword skills so that she can skillfully use  Daystar. Decisions, decisions, decisions      

P.S.: you said "sword" for Valygar, but you meant katana, specifically, didn't you?  I always want him to have the "thunder and lightning" +3 katana simply for the audio/visual effects - battles should be fun even without Minsc and Boo   

Modifié par morbidest2, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:18 .

[polytope]

Personally, I never buy the SS of Mask, it costs a ridiculous amount of money and you can get an equally good sword (Usono's blade) by defeating the statues on the first level of the keep, since you travel there anyway. Firetooth is a sound investment, however.

morbidest2 wrote...

Jaheira is always a debate of short term (clubs, scimitar) versus quarterstaffs (long term). I always figure its better to put the ability points in 2H weaons and quarterstaff to be ready for the staff of Nature. 

I'd say only one point in 2h weapon style (which increases speed factor, damage & critical hit chance, the second point only increases sf), then specialize in spears. Impaler is good for mid/late SoA and ToB until you get Ixil's spike.

Staff of the woodlands is mainly useful for summoning rather than combat; ram is good, but might be better for the PC - even the knockback effect is much more useful for a thief than a straight up melee fighter.

Modifié par polytope, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:27 .

[morbidest2]

Come to think of it, picking the right helmets for fighting vampires, et al, can be almost as important as your weapons. Helm of Brillance doing a double whammy with Day Star has its advantages at certain points, and Charm helmets are useful in the first half of SoA before your party has picked up better equipment and Mind protection spell abilities. We mostly all agree that shields are inferior to dual wielding, BUT for someone like Viconia or Airhead, I still think a +2 or +3 shield makes sense, particularly when standing limp while turning dead.

Polytope: I agree that someone should be a quarterstaff specialist. But Woodlands staff is so useful in fighting Jon I - both alive and dead - and only a druid can use it. Also with all the good short swords cluttering up the joint I always feel quilty if I just give them to Nalia and/or Imoen to lean on while they do their main role of casting spells as quickly as possible (gods bless Vecna's tailor). So if you're using using a thief kit, it seems logical to make him/her the short sword specialist. It certainly a waste of Mazzy's melee potential to have her piddling around with SSs.

One of the beauties of BGII is that there are no "right" answers, just different playing styles.

Modifié par morbidest2, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:52 .

[C Barchuk]

Wow, this forum is without a doubt one of the best...still...for good sound advice. Thanks a bunch. Yea once I have 6 members, I really started getting confused on who use what after a while. It's definitely an area I want to be more comfortable with. Now HT, is Belm still a good off-hand weapon to use through ToB in your opinion.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Of course Belm is a good off-hand weapon in ToB. The enchantment level of the weapon is almost irrelevant when you think about the fact that it gives you an extra attack with the best weapon you have for that particular character (so, holding your best weapon always in your right hand, Belm is automatically better than any "second best" weapon). That's why you should always give it back to Jaheira after your assassinations (if you decide to have her dual wield).

Two handed weapons for Jaheira are a good option so long as you are spamming GWWs (thereby blocking all spell casting of course). But damage wise, dualwielding Spectral Brand/Belm isn't all that far behind.
Ixil's Spike does 1D6 +6 plus an additional 3D6+15 + stun if the enemy fails their save.
3D6 +15 sounds big very big, but it's not more than a single hit with Spectral Brand (combined with a good Belt of Strength) would do.

Spectral Brand does 1D8 +5 +1D6, and unless you are GWWing, gets one more attack per round (2, with Improved Haste) plus another attack with a weapon +2 (or 2, with Improved Haste), which, since Jaheira's strength should be above 20, should have some effect as well.

[C Barchuk]

Wow, I always went went a short sword for my thieves main hand assuming that speed factor was always the most important thing. Hell, I've never even thought of using spectral brand and, upon looking at it closer, its a sweet weapon. Man, all this time I haven't been using my thieves to their potential much less dual wielding in general. Still learning it seems. Thanks again.

[morbidest2]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Two handed weapons for Jaheira are a good option so long as you are spamming GWWs (thereby blocking all spell casting of course) .

I certainly agree with you about the virtues of Greater Whirlwind attacks. Once she has them. I start a major battle with her as a backup fighter casting Insect Plague, etc., etc..But once that's done, I have her don her HLA's and charge.

But to me the real issue here is that - unless you just like to play ToB (  ) - different weapons are appropriate for the standard NPCs before and after they get 3 million XPs, yet you have to balance your scarce ability points to cover the entire game. As in real war, you can't be strong everywhere. So we each make different difficult choices (and usually change them from run to run) and wind up with different playing styles.
"One man's Meade is another man's Persian" is one way to look at it. But I prefer George S. Kaufman's "One man's Mead is another man's Poison"

 

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Hm, just taking care of a possible misunderstanding caused by me. *blush*

Under GWW, you'd get less attacks from your dual-Spectral Brand than from Ixil's Spike because 2 out of the total of 10 need to be from your secondary weapon.
I was comparing NON-GWW. It makes no sense to use Belm under GWW conditions and if you don't replace it with a shield or a weapon that has good passive bonuses (AC or resistances), it's better to leave the slot open for the duration of the GWW.
The Flail of Ages is another very good example of a weapon where you should think about dropping your second weapon for GWWs, since it is the single most powerful one handed weapon in the game (excluding BBD and Golem Fists).

By the way, speed factor is only interesting if you think that the first attack will decide everything. But with backstabbing you already automatically get the first attack, and outside of backstabs, it's unlikely that you'll be able to put down an opponent in a single strike (leave that to Sarevok).

[amanasleep]

For Jaheira, Club of Detonation +5 is much better than Spectral Brand, with a few exceptions (like fighting highly fire resistant enemies like Demons and Fire Giants). Club of Detonation +5 is the single most damaging one-handed weapon in the game, except for FoA +5, which does the same damage and is overall superior. But you can get CoD +5 after Watcher's Keep, and FoA +5 you don't get untill the end of the game. Spectral Brand also can't be upgraded until Sendai, which is pretty late. Ixil +6, like CoD +5, can be acquired just after completing WK, so it's available from the beginning of ToB. Although most ToB enemies have good saves, any weapon that delivers stun on hit is quite good. The real problem is that the Figher HLA Power Attack is even better, and can be applied to any weapon. Still, Ixil plus a Greater Malison and a Doom or two can be pretty decent.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

You're right, completely forgot about the club (teaches me for leaving the game for so long). But what do you mean, equal damage to FoA+5?

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 19 septembre 2011 - 06:14 .

[amanasleep]

FoA +5 does 1d6 +6 +10 or 19.5 average. CoD + 5 does 1d6 +5 +5 or 13.5 average, but there is a 30% chance of +15 damage which is 4.5 average plus a 5% chance of a 10d6 fireball (17.5 on save for about another 0.9 average). So CoD +5 does about 19 on average. Like I said, FoA +5 is clearly the better weapon (slightly higher overall damage, Slow and Free Action, varied elemental damage, less random). But considering how soon it can be acquired, the Club is seriously good.

[The Potty 1]

Either you or Valygar should also consider katanas, in case you ever find a good one

[HoonDing]

Are there in fact weapon limits for halflings/gnomes in 2nd edition D&D? Can Mazzy say, dual-wield longswords or wield a two-handed sword?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Mazzy can use anything her strength score allows (which is pretty good) - my personal favourite is having her use halberds, but that's just me.

[C Barchuk]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Of course Belm is a good off-hand weapon in ToB. The enchantment level of the weapon is almost irrelevant when you think about the fact that it gives you an extra attack with the best weapon you have for that particular character (so, holding your best weapon always in your right hand, Belm is automatically better than any "second best" weapon). That's why you should always give it back to Jaheira after your assassinations (if you decide to have her dual wield).

Two handed weapons for Jaheira are a good option so long as you are spamming GWWs (thereby blocking all spell casting of course). But damage wise, dualwielding Spectral Brand/Belm isn't all that far behind.
Ixil's Spike does 1D6 +6 plus an additional 3D6+15 + stun if the enemy fails their save.
3D6 +15 sounds big very big, but it's not more than a single hit with Spectral Brand (combined with a good Belt of Strength) would do.

Spectral Brand does 1D8 +5 +1D6, and unless you are GWWing, gets one more attack per round (2, with Improved Haste) plus another attack with a weapon +2 (or 2, with Improved Haste), which, since Jaheira's strength should be above 20, should have some effect as well.

Good info man. I very much appreciate it. As far as dual wielding and backstabbing go, will the modded +5 short sword of backstabbing be a better main hand weapon than the spectral brand or say hindo's doom which I thought was one of the better one handed weapons? Not sure though.

[corey_russell]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Mazzy can use anything her strength score allows (which is pretty good) - my personal favourite is having her use halberds, but that's just me.

This is my preference for her as well. It's just a shame that the nice +4 halberd drops in the underdark yet none of the BioWare NPCs have proficiencies in that weapon. two attacks with most short swords or two attacks with that, no contest for me.

[morbidest2]

Or even better, use the L1 NPC mod to make Mazzy Toril's first non-human Paladin and then Keldorn can stay home and take Maria and his kids to the circus all he wants, while Mazzy swings a +5 2HS. Given 2 mages with lightning rods and level 5 spell casting, Firkraag ain't that tough, and then you have a +5 weapon before Spellhold. The other +5 equipment is either in ToB or Watchers Keep. Mazzy with a strength belt and Cronsomir is IMHO a better tank than Korgan or Minsc, and just slightly inferior to Sarevok.

Help stamp out the Radiant Heart's bigotted predjudices against "little" people.  .Why should the PC be the only one tormented by nagging women? Make Mazzy effective enough to be a core party member, and  then Valygar can also be hen pecked  

Modifié par morbidest2, 19 septembre 2011 - 05:54 .

[jaxsbudgie]

Doesn't anyone find it a little difficult to comprehend a halfling swinging a giant two-handed sword that's possibly as big, perhaps even bigger than them?
I mean I can let a few things slide in role playing terms but that I just can't. Besides in pen and paper DnD shorties can't wield large weapons can they? Don't shortswords become longswords to them or am I just making this all up?



Edit: probably doesn't help that I just don't like playing shorties either ... unless of course there are two of them, I like party balance in an aesthetic way. God I'm weird.

Modifié par jaxsbudgie, 19 septembre 2011 - 05:46 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Hindo's Doom is garbage for most builds. The only people interested in it are those that have at least 2 base APR, have an ability that grants automatic maximum damage (Kai, Righteous Magic) and are using Assassination (that means Priest of Lathander->Thief or Kensai->Thief). For everybody else, there are long swords or other weapons that deal just as much damage but give better bonuses besides.
Of course, if you have two or more people with access to Assassination in your group, you might start getting a little tight in the area of first choice armament (since, by definition, there is of course always only one best weapon).

I thought Spectral Brand was for Jaheira?

For assassinations, yes, you should use the modded Short Sword of Backstabbing (never can get that number high enough, right?) + Belm (in your left).
When not using your backstabbing multiplier however, there is little point in holding on to the SSoB, is there? Your right hand could hold Celestial Fury/Angurvadal/Black Razor (if you go evil)... whatever seems best at the moment - while your left sticks to the Scarlet Ninja-To.

As for being too short for certain weapons, I don't think that's ever been a real concern for weapon developers. The real issue is strength, and that's not an issue with Mazzy. Just a short google search also pointed me to weapons that may be more than 3 times as long as their users: The Sarissa.
I imagine Mazzy spinning the halberd above her head, sometimes having it flicker outwards and slash an opponent.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 19 septembre 2011 - 06:16 .

[morbidest2]

jaxsbudgie wrote...

Doesn't anyone find it a little difficult to comprehend a halfling swinging a giant two-handed sword that's possibly as big, perhaps even bigger than them?
I mean I can let a few things slide in role playing terms but that I just can't. Besides in pen and paper DnD shorties can't wield large weapons can they? Don't shortswords become longswords to them or am I just making this all up?



Edit: probably doesn't help that I just don't like playing shorties either ... unless of course there are two of them, I like party balance in an aesthetic way. God I'm weird.

Mazzy's heart   is bigger than Sarevok's whole slightly dead body. Just think of her as another form of Yoda with a light saber, or Korgan duel wielding stonefire and the axe of the unyielding.  

[HoonDing]

jaxsbudgie wrote...

Doesn't anyone find it a little difficult to comprehend a halfling swinging a giant two-handed sword that's possibly as big, perhaps even bigger than them?
I mean I can let a few things slide in role playing terms but that I just can't. Besides in pen and paper DnD shorties can't wield large weapons can they? Don't shortswords become longswords to them or am I just making this all up?

A longsword is a two-handed sword for small characters. But in 3.5 edition there's the "Monkey grip" feat that allows a small character to use a large weapon in one hand, albeit at a penalty. Technically with this feat they should also be able to wield two-handed weapons, which are giant weapons for them.