20 réponses à ce sujet

[Hathur]

Well I picked up Saints Row 2 for dirt cheap on Steam a week or so ago, played it and loved it (appreciated could choose between female or male protagonists.. not enough games like that).

Anyway, was playing through it and recently finished it (fun game by the way... with a fun story.... a bad story... a stupid story... but still fun, with lots of interesting / amusing characters) and I sort of realized something.... my character is an awful human being in Saints Row 2... she's a homicidal borderline maniac who does terrible things to other human beings.... granted 99% of them are bad people but she still murders a few apparent innocents as well.

I should detest this character by all logic... afterall I utterly detest renegade Shepard... it's so damn difficult for me to play a renegade Shep and not want her / him to just keel over and die... I've only finished 3 "pure renegade" playthroughs but over 20+ paragon / paragade playthroughs.

For some reason I find myself really LIKING the protagonist in saints row 2, even though she's considerably more of an awful human being than renegade Shepard is... Hell in ME2 when you do a complete failure ending where Shepard dies at the end, I was CHEERING when my renegade fell and died (but I cried when it was paragon shep) simply because I hated my renegade Shepard so much.

But I was cheering for the Saints Row 2 protagonist the whole time, even finding myself forgiving her for some of her detestable actions.

I think this has a lot to do with how the devs gave personality to the two different characters. In Saints Row 2, your character, much like Renegade Shep, is a "hard-ass"... gives everyone a hard time, bossy, demanding, etc... except in Saints 2 your character frequently also has these moments where she or he is very charming... rogueish, a scoundrel... reminds me of Han Solo in some ways.

However Renegade Shepard had very few endearing moments... s/he was always just a bad ass, no-nonsense "get it done and to hell with the consequences" sort of person... which would have been fine if renegade Shep had some qualities there made him / her charming or more likeable as a person... as opposed to the gal / guy who just treats everyone in a very mean way.

What do you folks think? Do you hope Renegade Shep in ME3 at least gets a slightly "lighter" treatment? Not in terms of how "bad ass" renegade shep should be... but in the sense they s/he should get some moments that make him/her more endearing or likeable in some way as a human being.

If any of you are curious about the comparisons I spoke of in Saints 2, I've been compiling the cinematics of the game into a movie type thing and uploading it to my youtube page (really enjoyed the characters and even the silly / stupid story).

You can view the various chapters on my youtube page if you're interested (link in my sig) or check out this short clip as an example:  about what I mean where the character, despite being a horrible person, can be amusing and almost likeable in some ways (in this scene, she provides comedic relief.. something Shepard virtually never does).

Or perhaps it's just me? Do you guys find renegade Shepard likeable as a person? Not asking if you like Renegade Shepard as a hero (people like renegade Shep because s/he is a "badass" tough warrior out to save the universe) ... but as a person.. someone you find endearing or likeable - not for their deeds, but their personality. 

Modifié par Hathur, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:49 .

[Zakatak757]

I think people who try to play Renegade characters get it wrong and try to be "as bad as possible". That isn't the point. The point is to not let people f*ck with you and your mission.

People playing a Renegade character normally let the refinery in Zaeed's quest go up in flames. I think the more realistic "Renegade" option would be to save the people, and leave him to die in a fire for being selfish. See what I am getting at?

Renegon is the best.

Modifié par Zakatak757, 19 septembre 2011 - 04:07 .

[Nashiktal]

What happened zak I thought you were done with these forums? In any case I agree with you, a decent renegade has a good chunk of blue.

This would be a great representation of what p and r was supposed to be (that's why the bars were separate I. The first place!) but sadly we are stuck with the current system that punishes you for mixing it up.

[AdmiralCheez]

I think ReneShep lacks that immature and dopey sense of humor that makes the Saints Row 2 protagonist so charming.

Actually, Shep just lacks a sense of humor in general. Usually when (s)he does something funny, it's completely unintentional. Minus the occasional snark and banter.

[leminzplz]

Love Raints Row 2 can't wait for 3rd.

[naledgeborn]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I think ReneShep lacks that immature and dopey sense of humor that makes the Saints Row 2 protagonist so charming.

Actually, Shep just lacks a sense of humor in general. Usually when (s)he does something funny, it's completely unintentional. Minus the occasional snark and banter.

I should go.

[Nashiktal]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I think ReneShep lacks that immature and dopey sense of humor that makes the Saints Row 2 protagonist so charming.

Actually, Shep just lacks a sense of humor in general. Usually when (s)he does something funny, it's completely unintentional. Minus the occasional snark and banter.

While the MC in SR2 is hilarious, I get taken aback all the time by how psycho he gets. Half the problems plaguing the gang are his fault.

[Zakatak757]

Nashiktal wrote...

What happened zak I thought you were done with these forums?

Don't sarcasm at my sarcasm, b*tch!

[mineralica]

Zakatak757 wrote...

I think people who try to play Renegade characters get it wrong and try to be "as bad as possible". That isn't the point. The point is to not let people f*ck with you and your mission.

People playing a Renegade character normally let the refinery in Zaeed's quest go up in flames. I think the more realistic "Renegade" option would be to save the people, and leave him to die in a fire for being selfish. See what I am getting at?

Renegon is the best.

The point isn't in "don't f*ck with my mission" - or, more precisely, not only in that. In fact, In this situation Renegade can be:

- just crazy. "Bwahaha I enjoy watching people burn!"

- pragmatic. "I'll chase Vido to prevent him repeating this somewhere else".

- doesn't giving a s**t about anything. "I'm here to help Zaeed. Collateral damage? Who cares".

And maybe someone else I can't pinpoint now.

Dark superhero "I'll save workers, punish Zaeed for being selfish and then will chase down Vido" will formally count as Paragon, but there's Para/Ren system and its flaws.

[PauseforEffect]

There are moments when renegade can be compassionate; Tali's mission is a good example in the way Shepard chews the Admirals out for their selfishness.
And then there are other moments I just go, "Really, Shepard?" when the renegade dialogue goes along the mentality I equate to a three year old. As stated above, it's about picking the right moments and I've found that I've started to become more fond of some of the renegade dialogue (it felt sooo good to tell the Illusive Man to F! off at the end of the suicide mission).
ME2's changed things around a bit as it's forced the player to really read the dialogue wheel as some paragon statements I cannot take like arguing that the genophage was not necessary or hitting on Kelly with a Shepard who wants to keep it professional.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Renegade Shep can be pretty sarcastic but her delivery is more deadpan than the Boss from SR2. Really loved it when Shep said to Tali in ME1 "your grasp of the obvious is inspiring" (or words to that effect).

I don't think I'd find a pure renegade Shep (as in 100% renegade, 0% paragon) likeable because she'd have to be racist. But a pure paragon would be just as annoying.

I think SR2 has the advantage of being a really silly game. Yes the protagonist is a cold blooded killer but if she's wearing arseless chaps and ****** tape she's just going to make me laugh.

[Xeranx]

I love Saints Row 2. I remember the protagonist sitting at the bar and looking at the female bartender when some guys run in with guns and she (my protagonist) pulls the barkeep from behind the counter and into gunfire to protect herself. I couldn't believe it. It's entirely over the top. Think I'm going to play it again.

For renegade to work in Mass Effect the developers have to give renegades more opportunities to show their softer sides. As Eden said, Shepard can chew out the admirals on Tali's behalf. Stuff like that needs to come out more.

[Nashiktal]

Xeranx, just a correction, MC doesn't pull the bartender to protect himself, it was malicious intent.

He could have just hopped over and not get shot.

[naddaya]

Nashiktal wrote...

Xeranx, just a correction, MC doesn't pull the bartender to protect himself, it was malicious intent.

He could have just hopped over and not get shot.

Technically he uses her as both a distraction and a human shield.

[Ticktank]

I have a renegade Shepard all ready to receive the death he so deserves in ME3.

Modifié par Ticktank, 20 septembre 2011 - 05:17 .

[Hathur]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I think ReneShep lacks that immature and dopey sense of humor that makes the Saints Row 2 protagonist so charming.

Actually, Shep just lacks a sense of humor in general. Usually when (s)he does something funny, it's completely unintentional. Minus the occasional snark and banter.

I guess this is quite true now that I think about it... Shepard seldom, if ever, says anything directly humorous.. most of the humor comes from other characters.

I guess this is why Paragon / Paragade works for me, because Shepard comes across as very serious all the time - and if Shepard is "sane" in regards to her / his behavior than it gels well with me.... but since Renegade Shepard is basically serious all the time as well I can't personally ever find much likeable / redeeming in his or her actions and behavior. 

Whereas with the the Saints 2 protagonist the frequent humorous nature of her makes her murderous ways seem less egregious 

I guess for me to be able like renegade Shep as a person at all in ME3 s/he needs to "lighten up" a bit 

[TheBlackBaron]

I, for one, find RenShep's moments of deadpan sarcasm and merciless chewing out of those who deserve it (e.g. the Admiralty Board) to be highly endearing. Much more so, in fact, than Paragon Shep's naivety and self-righteousness.