48 réponses à ce sujet

[Darek Death]

I have the most recent version of the game, I'm playing on Mac OS. I was going to max out Neeshka's appraise skill, so I put a couple points to it. When I went to a shop I noticed it automtically switches to my character when I talk to someone, and when I go to it is says the whole appraise check whatnot but the prices are the same for all my characters, and they're the same whether I talk to the guy with Neeshka or my guy. (who has significantly lower appraise) So I did some research, and I read some places that it only uses my main characters appraise, (which I find stupid, why does the game even let her build a skill that doesnothing whatsoever) but I read on nwn2.wikia.com: "Under the 1.22 patch the current selected character's Appraise skill counts for buying and selling so maximizing Neeshkas appraise might eventually make her the parties best merchant negotiator." 
So I did a little research on patchs and it looks like 1.23 is the most recent PC patch and 1.12 is the most recent for Mac. Of course the numbering being lower does not mean that the mac patch is not as far updated as the PC patch, most games tend to release more patches for their PC version but their mac patch has all the same updates. So I was wondering, is it pointless for me to continue raising Neeshka's Appraisal? Is there a special trick to applying her Appraise when going into a shop?

[foil-]

I will attempt an answer even though its been a while since actively playing.

Adding "talking" skills like diplomacy and appraise to other characters in the Original Campaign is a waste of points. Sorry. This was a major gripe for me. They added in the ability to choose a leader for talking when you were playing multiplayer with other PCs to give another player a chance to use his/her skills. But still the Obsidian created players you pick up in game could not use their skills.

This changed when they added Storm of Zehir expansion pack. An amazingly simple and elegant conversation system was developed where they had a response window with tabs for each character in the party and their available replies that depended on their skills, class, and race. Its unfortunate Atari support died after Storm of Zehir since the game had just gone from good to amazing. This isn't even talking about the overland map they added.

If you can bootcamp your computer, I suggest getting a Steam version of this game which is fully patched and includes all expansions. This is still the best game of its type on the market and it looks like years before we will see anything in comparison.

Modifié par foil-, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:02 .

[Darek Death]

Thanks for the help Foil. Storm of Zehir eh? I'll think about getting that, though I'm still supposed to try DAO. I heard DAO was supposed to be the new best game of the line, but I borrowed DA2 from a friend thinking if it's the newer one it's going to be better right? It was terrible, I mean nice graphics and user interface but you don't get many options, beginning of the game you only get to choose male or female and use one of the 2 pre-made characters, and then it's like the 90's game Diablo 1 where you can choose from warrior, rogue, or wizard, but it's the same guy either way. The storyline was too 1 dimensional as well, it's basically like they're telling a story and you're barely playing at all, of course I got bored and stopped after 10 minutes and decided to start up NWN2 again instead, maybe it got better idk yet. So far BG2 is still my favorite game in the line. I'm going to have to partition my drive to install Tiger (I'm using Lion) so I can install OS9 in classic and play all my old favorites. I played BG and BG2 over again until they were so old my computer didn't recognize their programming anymore. Darek, later Darek Death, was actually my first character on BG1, and I carried him over to BG2. I even made a version of him for some of the other games, and for Diablo 2's Paladin I used his name originally.

[Darek Death]

Thanks for the help Foil. Storm of Zehir eh? I'll think about getting that, though I'm still supposed to try DAO. I heard DAO was supposed to be the new best game of the line, but I borrowed DA2 from a friend thinking if it's the newer one it's going to be better right? It was terrible, I mean nice graphics and user interface but you don't get many options, beginning of the game you only get to choose male or female and use one of the 2 pre-made characters, and then it's like the 90's game Diablo 1 where you can choose from warrior, rogue, or wizard, but it's the same guy either way. The storyline was too 1 dimensional as well, it's basically like they're telling a story and you're barely playing at all, of course I got bored and stopped after 10 minutes and decided to start up NWN2 again instead, maybe it got better idk yet. So far BG2 is still my favorite game in the line. I'm going to have to partition my drive to install Tiger (I'm using Lion) so I can install OS9 in classic and play all my old favorites. I played BG and BG2 over again until they were so old my computer didn't recognize their programming anymore. Darek, later Darek Death, was actually my first character on BG1, and I carried him over to BG2. I even made a version of him for some of the other games, and for Diablo 2's Paladin I used his name originally.

[foil-]

Good to hear that NWN2 still draws from the newer games.  SoZ is weak from a story point but regains the old BG adventure feeling back.

I liked both Dragon Age 1 and 2 for what they were. Dragon Age 1 was closer to a Baldur's Gate experience. Dragon Age 2 took some interesting turns but they are no longer following the BG model. More the mass effect model. Neither game was as good as BioWare's Mass Effect for me.

But NWN2 actually improved on BG series (not the story, just the mechanics) by taking from BG and making it more versatile. Weapon load outs on the quickbar, quick cast menu (press F), overland map, dialogue option in SoZ, and on and on. Plus all the user content took advantage of even more flexibility.

BG is what got me back in D&D rpgs. Story telling wise they are the most memorable for me. NWN2 is what keeps me.

Curious: which did you play first.  BG1 or BG2?  I still love BG1 more than any game in the series and recall the backlash to BG2's linear section in the middle.  I wonder if people's favorite depends on which one they played first.

Modifié par foil-, 18 septembre 2011 - 06:03 .

[Darek Death]

I can't remember which I played first. The reason I like BG2 more is because it improved on things like graphics and user interface without losing the essence of the game that I love in both BG games. IWD not having any characters join your team throughout the game was a huge let down for me, never even got IWD2, and NWN henchmen thing was also annoying to me.

I like NWN2 the best of the recent releases because it went back to having NPCs join your team, and you can interact with them like in BG. Like you said the mechanics, user interface and what not, is a lot better in NWN2 then in BG2 but it still lacks a lot of little things I liked about BG2, I say "essence" because it's easier then listing off all the little things.

I thought the camera mode it started me out with was pretty stupid but I'm glad they have a free camera mode so it's more like BG, but I don't like that I can only scroll so far away from my camera. That's one of the things I was talking about, another is the fact that there is no time in NWN2, it gives you no reason to work at saving time and getting to things on time and there is no incentive to use healing instead of just resting constantly. I also liked that there were random areas that were completely pointless, just empty fields you had to cross to get to the next city, it was more realistic and I got to fight more. Since there was more opportunity to fight I didn't worry about trying to kill everything in an area like I do now; Stuff like that.

I'm looking at boots right now in my game. Neeshka has the Lesser Boots of Tumbling equipped and I'm thinking about giving her Nasher's Nimble Boots. The +3 Dexterity bonus would be of more use then the +4 Tumbling since it effects more things; I had the Nasher's on my char because his dex is low for a barbarian, but I have enough to afford the Boots of Hardiness now, and those would be pretty good for my guy. Con is always good, and his AC is for some reason lower then Khelgar and Neeshka. That's odd... my base Con is 14, brought to 16 because of my Amulet of Vitality +2. When I equip the boots my AC goes up but my Con doesn't change, if I unequip the Amulet it goes down to 15, getting the +1 from the boots. How come they can't be both applied at the same time?

[I_Raps]

Darek Death wrote...

Con is always good, and his AC is for some reason lower then Khelgar and Neeshka. That's odd... my base Con is 14, brought to 16 because of my Amulet of Vitality +2. When I equip the boots my AC goes up but my Con doesn't change, if I unequip the Amulet it goes down to 15, getting the +1 from the boots. How come they can't be both applied at the same time?

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, here, but I'll try to answer generally and maybe you can figure out how it applies to your situation.

(1)  Only the highest Ability increase applies.  That is, if you have a +1 CON item and a +3 CON item, only the +3 is used.  If you then throw Bear's Endurance on the character, only the +4 from the spell is used;  they don't add up.

(2)  Constitution bonus items in particular are squirrely.  Swapping them out can produce unwarranted bonus hit points, for example, and this squirreliness may be what you're looking at here.  Generally, things get sorted out after a rest (in some cases, an area load may be needed).

[Darek Death]

The first thing answers my question, thanks Raps.

[foil-]

Just for some lingo clarification here: most people refer to this as stacking or non stacking. In NWN1, a lot of items would stack making it possible to get ridiculous strengths, wisdoms, etc.
I think there are certain things in NWN2 that still stack, but can't recall the fine points about them.

[Darek Death]

Most of the games I play have stacking as just standard, no stacking doesn't really make sense to me. If people were getting too powerful from stacking equipment bonuses then the game designers need to balance equipment throughout the game better; They were just being lazy.

[Haplose]

It's the DnD 3,5 ed. mechnics, though, not just something made up by NWN2.

In fact the NWN1 design decision to allow bonus stacking was in conflict with DnD 3.0 ed. mechanics this game was based on.

In general you can stack multiple sources of Dodge AC. Some Natural AC sources stack (like from race/feats/class + spells OR item).

And some things stack, even though according to the rules, they should not. Like Enchantment bonus to armor from (Improved) Mage Armor stacks with base value of armor worn (but not it's enchantment).

Also multiple different sources of Attack Bonus stack, probably more then should. Like the different cleric spells that grant bonuses to AB. Almost all stack with each other. While only 1 of each type should be allowed (like enchantment, morale, sacred etc.)

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Darek Death wrote...

I have the most recent version of the game, I'm playing on Mac OS. I was going to max out Neeshka's appraise skill, so I put a couple points to it. When I went to a shop I noticed it automtically switches to my character when I talk to someone, and when I go to it is says the whole appraise check whatnot but the prices are the same for all my characters, and they're the same whether I talk to the guy with Neeshka or my guy. (who has significantly lower appraise) So I did some research, and I read some places that it only uses my main characters appraise, (which I find stupid, why does the game even let her build a skill that doesnothing whatsoever) but I read on nwn2.wikia.com: "Under the 1.22 patch the current selected character's Appraise skill counts for buying and selling so maximizing Neeshkas appraise might eventually make her the parties best merchant negotiator." 
So I did a little research on patchs and it looks like 1.23 is the most recent PC patch and 1.12 is the most recent for Mac. Of course the numbering being lower does not mean that the mac patch is not as far updated as the PC patch, most games tend to release more patches for their PC version but their mac patch has all the same updates. So I was wondering, is it pointless for me to continue raising Neeshka's Appraisal? Is there a special trick to applying her Appraise when going into a shop?

The most recent Mac patch also brings the game to 1.23. There are instructions for getting things running on a Mac in this thread.

Additional help for Mac users can be found at the NWN2 Mac Forums (see link below).

If you have MotB and SoZ then you can install my OC Makeover SoZ Edition which does alter the way NPC's like shopkeepers are spawned so that they can talk with companions and take advantage of companion skill points.

Regards

[Darek Death]

Another thing I hate about NWN2 not having enough areas to fight enemies, I've killed every single enemy up to this point of the game, left none behind, yet I am at a point where it is not possible to progress further. I'm on that quest to rescue an informant from his home and bring him back to the watch's building, and on the second floor there is this area where there's about 20 invisible guys in 3 different spots, if I move forward I get attacked by all of them, if I try to attack one, they all come running. I've tried it about 30 times, using a different strategy most of those times, I'm finally set on the fact that it's just not possible. Even with summonings (regular and water elementals from that one item) and downing pots constantly on all your teammates, there are just too many. I got them down to half with a few strategies though, but that still leaves about 30 to go. Since there are no enemies left in the game I can't go back and train, I've even already done Neeshka's side quest. I was a Paladin when I played back when the game was new so I can only guess that I obliterated them with that strength, it's been so many years since I've played I don't remember much. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a strategy for this.

Haplose wrote...

It's the DnD 3,5 ed. mechnics, though, not just something made up by NWN2.

Regardless, it still makes no sense. If an item says it does something, I expect it to do it, not "do it only if I'm not already getting a bonus from something else." I can understand it for something like DnD though, that's a pen and paper game right? In games like that the GM can make up equipment, so you could become immortal basically after a while. But with a video game that rule isn't necessary, since the game designer can control what items are being made and balance the game so that stacking wont be an issue. Since these video games are games of their own, and under their own set of circumstances different from Dungeons & Dragons, it's just lazy to use everything from DnD. 

Hmm... That reminds me! I have my difficulty turned up all the way to get more experience, that's how it was in BG but I haven't noticed getting any more exp then I would on a lower difficulty... is there any point to using a harder difficulty besides making the game more challenging? Do I get more exp for higher difficulty?

Edit:
I just turned the difficulty down by one and tried one of my isolation strategies that don't work real well, and it went from impossible to easy. The isolation streategy is to isolate one of the groups but it doesn't work because all the enemies come running from miles away soon as you kill one of them. I mean it takes a while for them to get to me though, so I have them isolated for a little while at least.

Modifié par Darek Death, 19 septembre 2011 - 08:40 .

[dunniteowl]

Other methods to keep a fight from being overwhelming is to micro manage your group prior to the combat, by issuing direct commands. You take your weaker characters (magic slinger and lower level thieves, fer instance) and order them to stay put and guard you, then you take the the stronger characters that you aren't going to control and tell them to guard or defend you, and then tell them to stay put. Then you take the character you wish to use in battle and attack with a ranged weapon the first targets you can, then run back to the group.

You do all this stationed at a doorway or hall way where only so many enemy characters can get near you and with judicious use of pause, commands, spell casting, unpause, fight for about six to ten seconds, rinse, repeat. This method has stood me in good stead in many a battle. Of course, there's the occasion where Khelgar and/or Neeshka both suddenly decide they're invincible and charge into the hordes, being cut down nearly instantly and that sort of spoils the plan. Most of the time, though, you can order them to defend you and then tell them to stay put and they'll attack all the enemy creatures that are trying to put the smack down on the main character. Pretty effective.

With Tony K's AI, though, you can even tell the characters to pick on magic users first, using ranged weapons, spells and items, before they melee. Very useful.

On stacking, I disagree about the way you'd prefer it. I prefer logic in my magic and the highest powered item is the highest magical bonus you can get. It's like playing cards. Your opponent has a ten of hearts. The Jack, Queen, King or Ace all beat the ten, but each one is beat by something else (until you get to the Ace) and no amount of wishing, pushing or demand will change the fact.

I see magic as working that way. A +4 item doesn't add to your +2 item, it just beats it by +2. The magic of the higher powered item or equipment supercedes the lower powered one, which supercedes and even lower one, which beats a non magical weapon, item or piece of equipment of the same type. Savvy?

Otherwise, folks would have no incentive to find ever more powerful magical items. They could simply walk around with a magical item on every slot, stacking them and your character would "Hulk" out with a bunch of +1 -- +3 items. If that was all you could ever get, that might be okay. It's also why you can only have two active rings on a character at a time.

As the game is a D&D game, it has to do it's best to follow the rules of D&D in place at the time of development initiation. There are always going to be changes and modifications, but in this sense, D&D video games come closer to realizing a sense of adhering to the original rules better than any other video game implementation of an RPG on the whole, with possibly the exception being "Vampire: Masquerade" which was pretty close to the White Wolf rules for the PnP version.

[Darek Death]

dunniteowl wrote...

Other methods to keep a fight from being overwhelming is to micro manage your group prior to the combat, by issuing direct commands. You take your weaker characters (magic slinger and lower level thieves, fer instance) and order them to stay put and guard you, then you take the the stronger characters that you aren't going to control and tell them to guard or defend you, and then tell them to stay put. Then you take the character you wish to use in battle and attack with a ranged weapon the first targets you can, then run back to the group.

You do all this stationed at a doorway or hall way where only so many enemy characters can get near you and with judicious use of pause, commands, spell casting, unpause, fight for about six to ten seconds, rinse, repeat. This method has stood me in good stead in many a battle. Of course, there's the occasion where Khelgar and/or Neeshka both suddenly decide they're invincible and charge into the hordes, being cut down nearly instantly and that sort of spoils the plan. Most of the time, though, you can order them to defend you and then tell them to stay put and they'll attack all the enemy creatures that are trying to put the smack down on the main character. Pretty effective.

I tried all of those in a couple of the strategies I tried before turning down the difficulty. 

dunniteowl wrote...
On stacking, I disagree about the way you'd prefer it. I prefer logic in my magic and the highest powered item is the highest magical bonus you can get. It's like playing cards. Your opponent has a ten of hearts. The Jack, Queen, King or Ace all beat the ten, but each one is beat by something else (until you get to the Ace) and no amount of wishing, pushing or demand will change the fact.

Your example does not apply, that card game is uncomparable. In that card game it is simply highest number wins, which is an age old concept, but we're not talking about who has the highest number of cattle or cards. We're talking about bonuses that equipment give, magical or not. (as in some bonuses which come from material or craftmanship) It's more like blackjack, if you have a 4, 3, and 8 you have 15, not 8. and if your oponent has 10, and 3 they have 13, not 10. The person who has a total of 15 wins there, not the person who has the highest card in their hand. What I said is much more logical; like in most games, rpg and otherwise, if a peice of equipment gives you a bonus, like it makes you faster or healthier, then that stat is applied. If you have another piece of equipment that also gives you a speed or health bonus, it is also applied. It doesn't  cancel out the other equipment, because they are still equipped and still giving you that benefit.

dunniteowl wrote...
I see magic as working that way. A +4 item doesn't add to your +2 item, it just beats it by +2. The magic of the higher powered item or equipment supercedes the lower powered one, which supercedes and even lower one, which beats a non magical weapon, item or piece of equipment of the same type. Savvy?

Yeah, I believe that's pretty much exactly what I_Raps wrote, except he actually worded it better. I wouldn't have responded to this but you asked a question on the end so I felt obligated to say something.

dunniteowl wrote...
Otherwise, folks would have no incentive to find ever more powerful magical items. They could simply walk around with a magical item on every slot, stacking them and your character would "Hulk" out with a bunch of +1 -- +3 items. If that was all you could ever get, that might be okay. It's also why you can only have two active rings on a character at a time.

That's... kind of humorous. You've obviously never played anything besides DnD, because all other RPGs, and even non-RPGs, I can think of off the top of my head right now use stacking, and in those games it's plainly obvious that a guy with say +5 to str on every equipment is going to be stronger then his identical twin who only has +1 to str on all his equipment. There is more incentive to find better equipment of every type of item if there is stacking, if there's no stacking then you get a +5 str amulet and don't care about getting any other equipment with str. That covers PvP and PvNPC vs PvNPC, and as for PvNPC, like I said they are just being lazy, if they took into account that people would be using stacking they could balance equipment and enemy strengths appropriately, Blizzard did a good job of it with Diablo 2, (nearly) 12 years ago.

dunniteowl wrote...
As the game is a D&D game, it has to do it's best to follow the rules of D&D in place at the time of development initiation. There are always going to be changes and modifications, but in this sense, D&D video games come closer to realizing a sense of adhering to the original rules better than any other video game implementation of an RPG on the whole, with possibly the exception being "Vampire: Masquerade" which was pretty close to the White Wolf rules for the PnP version.

Says who? The game is NOT DnD, it is NWN2, it just takes place on the same planet as DnD. WoW has a completely different rule set for the game from WC2, but they are in the same world; Lots of games are like this. If Blizzard had made WoW with the same ruleset as the previous games in the series, it would not have been the same game it is now. There would be no improvement or branching, it would just be a boring changeless series, that would probably end pretty quick which would suck. Even the FF series has different rules for each game. (aside from a couple that cary over, especially in the early games) If I wanted to play DnD I would play DnD, there are tons of different maps and things to do in the actual DnD game that I've never played, because I've never had the chance to play the game. The main reason I think there are so many similarities in the rule sets of these games (BG, IWD, NWN) and DnD, is because they're made by the same people. But they are trying to make the ruleset of the games apply to the situation in their video games, they just don't want to do more work then they have to, and I can't blame them for that. I'm not saying that they should make it completely different, like WoW compared to WC2, I'm just saying they should try to improve it by making improvements that fit the specific game, instead of being held back by the ruleset of another game. For example, there are rules in the programing of NWN2 that determine PC to NPC relations, I really doubt those rules are included in DnD. 


By the way, does anyone know how to turn armor into material if that's at all possible? Because I have a ton of these darksteel chainshirts and it'd be cool if I could convert them all into darksteel for blacksmithing.

Modifié par Darek Death, 19 septembre 2011 - 10:19 .

[dunniteowl]

Darak, you're obviously making some very large assumptions. I won't say anymore on it, but I happen to actually design RPGs of my own, and I've played Traveller, Boot Hill, Paranoia, Vampire, Car Wars, Cthulu and Riftwars. You need to read a little closer and with attention to the fact that my analogy is actually a very good one. It's just not one sentence long.

NWN2 is a D&D video game. Period.

regards

[kamal_]

If they didn't want to do more work than they had to, they wouldn't use DnD rules at all, and just produce another action rpg with talent trees and all of a whole dozen(!) spells.

You can't convert armor into ingots.

[Haplose]

I guess we will have to disagree - both about wheter property stacking is a good thing or not... and whether translating an existing pnp system into crpg mechanic is a good idea compared with a home-cooked, diablo-like system.

Regarding your difficulties with mass battles, try making a carpet with lasting area of effect spells, if you have them. In many cases they make a lot of difference if you stack a carpet o'doom on the path the enemies are coming from. Notable spells include: Evaard's Black Tentacles ! (mage 4), Cloud of Bewilderment ! (mage/bard 2), Grease (mage/bard 1), Vine Mine - Entangle (druid 3), Entangle (druid 1) and finally the great StoneHold (Druid 6) and Cloudkill (mage 5, doesn't disable - but has nice synergy with the above) - though you're unlikely to have level 5 & 6 spells by that time

Just pay attention that none of your party members enters the area or they will become perma-disabled!

For me carpet o'doom is the most satisfying and fun tactics in NWN. Even if the enemy has good saving throws, he's bound to roll some 1's, when he get's to roll 6 times per turn. Plus Grease slows the enemy passing through it regardless of whether he makes the saving throw or not. 

Modifié par Haplose, 20 septembre 2011 - 06:16 .

[Arkalezth]

That's probably the hardest area of the game. My suggestion is just to have your spellcasters buff your party. It's better to not get hit, rather than being hit and chug a healing potion. It depends on your party, but it should be much easier with active buffs, such as Stoneskin, Mirror Image, etc.

[Darek Death]

So anyway, I'm planning out my barbarians future. At Barbarian level 17 he gets his last point towards a feat and I've got down all the feats I was specifically going for, so I narrowed down whats left. Which is better Dash, Greater Resiliency, or Iron Will? I was wondering about Greater Resilience too, it says damage reduction 1/- which would bring my total damage reduction to 6/- at Barbarian level 19, since the amount is so low it makes me think that 1 might be a lot but to tell you the truth I don't know what they're talking about. Is it 1%, or 1 point? What's with the /-?

[Arkalezth]

DR 1/- means that you resist one point of damage from any kind of weapon. If it was, for example, 1/Cold iron, it'd mean that a cold iron weapon would ignore that DR.

[Haplose]

Hmm.. no feat you list is particularly good. 6 points of damage reduction at higher levels ain't much... much less 1 additional point. Unless you specifically go for a DR build (3x Epic DR feats after level 21, particularly Dwarven Defender class), it's probably not worth it.
But leftover feats on a Barbarian? Now that's rare. Have you got Steadfast Determination (needs Toughness)? Should boost your Will saves way more then Iron Will, as a Barbarian's Con should be good or at least decent.

[foil-]

Interesting discussion on the ruleset implementation, especially today with games like Dragon Age taking a different direction.

The developers of D&D games usually go to great lengths to adhere to pen and paper rules due to licensing, but also due to the fact that a tonne of work goes into balancing the PnP rulesets.  Many of the rpg games don't have 5-6 editions of ruleset history that has been refined over 40 years.  People have grown use to the heavy strategy required by the rulesets and enjoy playing the numbers in the video game equivalent.  My understanding is that any rule adhered to is free to implement in a D&D video game.  Deviations need to be approved by Wizard of the Coast. 

This may be changing however with games like Dragon Age moving away from this concept and developing their PnP ruleset alongside the video game ruleset with very little connection between how numbers are handled.  Its probably going to make their video game more attractive to the general public, but for those who grew up on D&D rulesets and/or goldbox games, the rules from PnP are an integral part of the video game experience.  They like playing the numbers.

I lie somewhere in between but prefer the greater transparency of following the PnP especially today where game manual are a slip of paper with key commands.  The rules are all there open for viewing.  With D&D video games I can always purchase the PnP rules and be fairly confident the video game runs on the same system.

As for stacking, its a preference thing I guess.  But this is a D&D game and like all the other rules in the game will follow the PnP rules as close as possible.  Intuitively, I don't see magical items daisy chaining their magical power.  Its a bit rediculous to debate how magic works, but in my fantasy nerd world the magic of one item may overshadow another, not plug into another for a supercharge.  But its preference I guess.  Their are no real logical answers when talking about magic.  Only what they have implemented in the PnP and play tested for years to develop balance before releasing a new edition.

[The Fred]

DR 6/- maybe isn't amazing, but that's 6 less from every single physical hit. Enemies probably aren't going to be doing significantly more than ~20 points of physical damage pre-epic, I wouldn't have though, so reducing that by 5 or 6 points is taking off a whole quarter of it. Against purely physical-damage-based foes, that means you like 33% longer (for a Barbarian with, say, a meagre 12+3 hp/level, that's like having +5 hp/level, much better than Toughness). Obviously this falls down a bit when you look at elemental and other damage and non-damaging effects (for which a high Will is more important by far).

Since Barbarians already have d12 health, I wouldn't bother pumping Con so much as Str and maybe even Dex. Unless you are dumping Wis (perfectly viable with Steadfast), you're probably only going to get two or three points from Streadfast Determination. That said you'll probably have Con-boosting items, so if you do have Toughness, SD > Iron Will. I probably wouldn't burn Toughness to get it, though, unless you had free feats.

[Haplose]

It's not +6 dr vs +1 hp though, it's +1 dr vs +1 hp. Still better I guess, as it can shrug that 1 damage from all physical attacks, so the effect gets multiplied over many hits, but not really great. And it's certainly possible to be hit by more then 20 damage pre-epic, particularly if you also consider critical hits.

Modifié par Haplose, 21 septembre 2011 - 01:41 .