114 réponses à ce sujet

[rak72]

What is going on here.  Anders basically murdered a bunch of his fellow Wardens, then deserted.  Why aren't they hunting him down to take back to Wiesopp & face the consequences.  Whenever we meet up with any Wardens, they are like, "Oh hey, Anders, whats up".   I can't see how they would just let this fly - Ser Jory must be turning over in his grave.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Did he kill a bunch of Wardens when he left the order? I don't remember the short story details, just that a templar joined, Anders got the ass, joined with Justice, flipped out, killed the templar, and left.

As far as why the Wardens aren't hunting him down, don't know. There does seem to be something really big going on that is of major concern. and the Wardens we meet seem to be preoccupied with it. And since the taint itself is a slow death sentance, perhaps they aren't bothered? Maybe they will wait until he comes crawling back. They aren't really that bothered by the murder of their fellows, given how Duncan was recruited, and possibly Loghain.

Jory never became a Warden, he never went through with the joining, so he wouldn't count. Jory tried to back out of the joining. Anders already went through it, so he's doomed regardless.

[rak72]

I don't remember the story too well, but I thought there were a few of them there. Either way, the Wardens don't seem like the type that would just let their members come & go as they please.

Sure they recruit murderers, but I don't think killing your "brothers in arms" would be looked favorably upon.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Like I said, i don't know. Maybe alot of Wardens were more pissed off about the Chantry placing an active templar spy in their ranks, and didn't care what Anders did. Or maybe, it's that hinted at mystery that the Wardens seem preoccupied with everytime you meet them. Something big is going on that concerns the Wardens, maybe another Blight, and aren't particularly interested in killing him, especially as they might need every Warden they can get. Though why they simply wouldn't try to capture him alive is a bit of a mystery.

But the most likely scenario is, like the blood mage Hawke who can stab themselves for power and raise an army of undead while annulling the tower, and still be made Viscount, it's a giant plot hole.

[Wulfram]

"Suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet."
Is what the short story says

This one reason why I tend not to count it as canon. It also implies Anders is immune to swords - when stabbing him in the back with a dagger seems to work, and Vengeance mode in fact tends to make him more vulnerable not less. It obviously doesn't fit if Anders left the order by faking his death at Vigil's Keep, and it also doesn't really fit if your Warden isn't the sort to let the Chantry set a templar to watch Anders.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Wulfram wrote...

"Suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet."
Is what the short story says

This one reason why I tend not to count it as canon. It also implies Anders is immune to swords - when stabbing him in the back with a dagger seems to work, and Vengeance mode in fact tends to make him more vulnerable not less. It obviously doesn't fit if Anders left the order by faking his death at Vigil's Keep, and it also doesn't really fit if your Warden isn't the sort to let the Chantry set a templar to watch Anders.

Interesting. So there were templars called then? I honestly can't see any Warden Commander, except an idiot, allowing the Chantry to stick its nose in their affairs. The Wardens are supposed to remain neutral in all things, and people are expected to extend them the same courtesy. If Any Warden Commander felt Anders was dangerous, it is something they can more than take care of themselves. I can't see them inviting templars in to watch a mage for them.

So yeah, i guess it is difficult to make canon, since Anders can end up with multiple fates in Awakening.

[TEWR]

I'm assuming Stroud covered for Anders somehow, considering Anders owed him.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

"Suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet."
Is what the short story says

This one reason why I tend not to count it as canon. It also implies Anders is immune to swords - when stabbing him in the back with a dagger seems to work, and Vengeance mode in fact tends to make him more vulnerable not less. It obviously doesn't fit if Anders left the order by faking his death at Vigil's Keep, and it also doesn't really fit if your Warden isn't the sort to let the Chantry set a templar to watch Anders.

Interesting. So there were templars called then? I honestly can't see any Warden Commander, except an idiot, allowing the Chantry to stick its nose in their affairs. The Wardens are supposed to remain neutral in all things, and people are expected to extend them the same courtesy. If Any Warden Commander felt Anders was dangerous, it is something they can more than take care of themselves. I can't see them inviting templars in to watch a mage for them.

So yeah, i guess it is difficult to make canon, since Anders can end up with multiple fates in Awakening.

Anders was an abomination, and a renegade Warden. Both the Wardens and the Templars had an interrest in his elimenation, hence the presence of both Wardens and Templars.

[rak72]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'm assuming Stroud covered for Anders somehow, considering Anders owed him.

No, it was Stroud that owed Anders for something.  Thats why he did Anders the favor and let the sibling join the Wardens.

[rak72]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

"Suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet."
Is what the short story says

This one reason why I tend not to count it as canon. It also implies Anders is immune to swords - when stabbing him in the back with a dagger seems to work, and Vengeance mode in fact tends to make him more vulnerable not less. It obviously doesn't fit if Anders left the order by faking his death at Vigil's Keep, and it also doesn't really fit if your Warden isn't the sort to let the Chantry set a templar to watch Anders.

Interesting. So there were templars called then? I honestly can't see any Warden Commander, except an idiot, allowing the Chantry to stick its nose in their affairs. The Wardens are supposed to remain neutral in all things, and people are expected to extend them the same courtesy. If Any Warden Commander felt Anders was dangerous, it is something they can more than take care of themselves. I can't see them inviting templars in to watch a mage for them.

So yeah, i guess it is difficult to make canon, since Anders can end up with multiple fates in Awakening.

Yea, but mabe they were good Wardens, and their templar abilities would certainly be useful to the Wardens.  We don't know that they were doing anything "bad' to Anders.  All we know is that they were assigned to go on manuvers with him.  If he happened to do something nutty, they (theoreticly) could have taken care of him.

[TEWR]

rak72 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'm assuming Stroud covered for Anders somehow, considering Anders owed him.

No, it was Stroud that owed Anders for something.  Thats why he did Anders the favor and let the sibling join the Wardens.

Maybe I got it mixed up. It's been a while since I played DAII.

[rak72]

Maybe Anders gave Stroud a tonic to help him grow the pornstash

[TJPags]

Let's just consider it one more of those pesky "minor details" about Anders that just doesn't add up, along with the whole timeline of him getting to Kirkwall, when and where he became a Warden if your Warden rejected him, when and where he may have met Justice if not recruited by the Warden, and what happened to Pounce. And others I'm sure I forgot.

[TEWR]

rak72 wrote...

Maybe Anders gave Stroud a tonic to help him grow the pornstash

now I'm always going to see it as such. I've always called the moustaches that cops grow a porn star moustache. Now Stroud and the Wardens grow porn star moustaches.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

rak72 wrote...

Maybe Anders gave Stroud a tonic to help him grow the pornstash

That must be it. In fact, i bet the First warden discovered Ander's pornstache tonic, and that's why he's ordered everyone to leave Anders alone.

[Stoomkal]

What... details about Anders that make absolutely no sense? NEVER!!!

Listen - it is best to consider the *two* Anders completely different people.

One is "happy go lucky" and was always talking about girls.

One is dark, brooding, and has a things for guys...

Apart from the change in voice actor, I am not sure there is anything else I can use to describe how little attention or care they paid to make Anders a *consistent* character.

So he wasn't.

He just comes off as a completely revised character, which is a feature of bad writing. It was deeply important to make sure that already established personalities remained consistent in the story, but they didn't really do this.

And I have already pointed out that anything labeled "fiction" related to the DA world is just that - fiction. Most of Gaider's own work is deeply inconsistent with most world facts, and all kinds of blatant contradictions arise with the source material.

I honestly think sometimes it is simple luck that the main writer gets his own world right half the time...

[TEWR]

I always saw Anders in Awakening as a very dark and twisted person.

and I'm not sure if you're calling the short story fictional in regards to the DA universe.

[Stoomkal]

I think the above can sort of show you how difficult it is to say that it *happened*...

Because... you know... the details contradict each other...

That is what makes it fan-fic, when it cannot adequately stand with source material without blatant inaccuracies.

And as for Anders being "dark and twisted" in Awakening... I am talking about DA:O Awakening, not DA2.

[TEWR]

So was I. I always saw him as a dark and twisted person in Dragon age Awakening who uses jokes as a shield, because he wants people to think he's fine when in reality he isn't. He's harboring a lot of dark emotions inside, but chooses not to release them.

Mainly because I can relate to that, as I do the same thing.

Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. --- Mark Twain



edit: I think I originally phrased that so poorly it made no sense, so I changed it up a bit to hopefully make more sense.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 septembre 2011 - 08:51 .

[Johnny20]

Anders murdered Grey Wardens? I never knew of this. He seemed like such a nice lad when you first meet him. But maybe he did kill those Templar's in Awakening, I only thought he lost his mind by the end of DA2, but maybe he has always been a charming murderer. And an abomination at that.

Modifié par Johnny20, 19 septembre 2011 - 08:38 .

[Sons of Horus]

As i understand it, Stroud may have introduced the templar spy into the order, It would make some sense that he would owe Anders for that mess. But i do think Stoomkal has the truth of the matter, plot holes and inconstant writing can reduce the character as well as the story.

[Patchwork]

DA2 Anders would make much more sense if he wasn't DAO:A Anders at all.

The short story makes the inconsistencies which already existed x10 worse.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Anders can be in Kirkwall during act 1 without it causing any sort of timeline inconsistencies. If Awakening takes place at most 6 months after Origins, that gives Awakening about 9 months run time to get Anders to Kirkwall. Many people forget that DA2 does not start at the same time as DA:O. DA2 starts after one of the main quests in DA:O has been completed, and thus a few months into the Blight.
The only inconsistancies Anders presents, is how he ever met Justice, if either weren't recruited. Though, Anders being a mage offers many explanations. It is merely unknown.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Anders can be in Kirkwall during act 1 without it causing any sort of timeline inconsistencies. If Awakening takes place at most 6 months after Origins, that gives Awakening about 9 months run time to get Anders to Kirkwall. Many people forget that DA2 does not start at the same time as DA:O. DA2 starts after one of the main quests in DA:O has been completed, and thus a few months into the Blight.
The only inconsistancies Anders presents, is how he ever met Justice, if either weren't recruited. Though, Anders being a mage offers many explanations. It is merely unknown.

He couldn't have met Justice because Justice was sundered from the Fade completely and couldn't return. He said that he could leave Justice's body if he wished, but he'd just be moving throughout Thedas. He's even positive that killing Kristoff's body again wouldn't send him back.

Only explanation I can think of is that Justice's spirit moved throughout Thedas and eventually found Anders, and they had a friendly chat. Or Justice inside Kristoff the Corpse got picked up by Anders' Warden group because they thought it was Kristoff, and then eventually found out it was one of the benevolent spirits of the Fade.