494 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

ReconTeam wrote...
I relate better with people I share interests, views, beliefs, with. That's not opinion.

I was looking for your opinion on how these romances cheapen characters.

And everyone relates better with others that share their interests...however, you still have to share the world with those that don't.

ReconTeam wrote...
A much smaller group of players, so you're telling me that everybody should have to deal with all bisexual LIs some some people don't feel left-out or some similar nonsense?

Everybody?  The small group of players that do these romances aren't 'everybody'...the majority of people that are apathetic and can easily deal with stuff aren't 'everybody'...your 'everybody' is a small group of people.

ReconTeam wrote...
That's funny, it certainly doesn't seem that way on these boards most of the time. In fact it seems the "make everybody bisexual" requests only really picked up after Bioware confirmed they would be adding this sort of thing.

Of course...now's the best time to put in that request.  That's just common sense.  I don't think you have a problem with the request, just the worry that BW might actually listen to it.

ReconTeam wrote...
I'm dodging the issue? Explain to me how poor writing in one area justifies making it worse.

Because you don't throw fits over the addition of more of that type of 'poor writing' but only this type of 'poor writing'.

[Sunnie]

ReconTeam wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
So what? Homosexuals have less options in real life as well, comes with the territory.

Kaiser's right. So why would you expect the same number of options, knowing that the devs only have so much time to work with and that the romances are a minor thing to begin with.

Because we are human, the same as you. The only difference between you and a gay person is your phobia of what someone else does in the bedroom. Stop being such a self entitled ass.

[Ticktank]

ReconTeam wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
The amount of people whom it offends seems to be much smaller than the amount of people who favor it, and much, much smaller than the people who are indifferent. And I can't imagine how it would make them harder to relate to. I have no real difficulty relating with to straight women.

You really think this section of the forums is indicative of the playerbase as a whole? Just look at the feedback DA2 got about the "brilliant" Hawkesexual concept.

DA:O provided "options" much better.

Posting sensible, non-bigoted arguments about the cons of making existing ME characters bi/homosexual? On the Bioware forums?!
Thats like giving a lecture about the pros of capital punishment...to a bunch of mass murderers on death row.
I mean, what kind of response are you expecting?

[Xilizhra]

A zealot calling me a homophobe isn't all that concerning. You already tried bigot and homophobe, care to try a new label?

When you display more than two personality traits, sure.

We shouldn't even have these sorts of romances in videogames to begin with, let alone such an unrealistic, disproportionate amount of bi ones we're getting now.

So... this sort of romance is badwrongfun why, exactly?

[elearon1]

Xilizhra wrote...

elearon1 wrote...
See, here is the huge failing with the argument - you go from the assumption that people are heterosexual unless they state otherwise ... what if the default were actually that all people are bisexual unless they state otherwise?  It is just as legitimate a stance to take and doesn't rely on a homophobic or heteronormative psychology to validate. (in fact, considering the fluidity of sexual preference during an adult life, as suggested by the Kinsey scale and later validated by further research, assuming bisexuality is probably a better foundation to argue from.)

Yes, but I was trying to satiate the idiot I was arguing with by meeting them halfway.

Fair, but I wasn't responding soley, or even primarily to you, but to a broad assumption I've seen throughout these threads that heterosexuality is the default from which any deviation must be justified.

[Kaiser Shepard]

jlb524 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
So what? Homosexuals have less options in real life as well, comes with the territory.

So do a-holes.

Let's limit choices for Renegades!

Really, they should just eliminate the Renegade response for half the conversations and make you spam the Paragon one in those instances.

As if Renegade choices already are represented well so far, or at all. But still, as mere consequence-less choices, they add more to the game than these shallow bisexual romances.

Also, typical of you to 'figure' that renegade equal "a-hole".

[Espurr]

jreezy wrote...

ToastPants wrote...

I would really like to see some sort of demographic survey of this issue to find out how many of the people arguing against the s/s romance options are dudes.

Just sayin'. I wonder if it would be drawing the same ire if only F/F romances were on the table.

But maybe I'm just cynical.

I have no problem with them.

Oh I'm sure! I wan't so much inferring that a lot of guys have issues with it so much as the fact that a disproportionate amount of the people that DO have a problem with it seem to be guys. So many of the comments I've seen seem to be about people not wanting dudes to hit on their manshep, yet at the same time defending the Liara/femshep romance because she's "not technically female" or something silly like that.

[Sabariel]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

We shouldn't even have these sorts of romances in videogames to begin with, let alone such an unrealistic, disproportionate amount of bi ones we're getting now.

Uh... why not? They're just as valid as straight romances. Gay and bisexual people like to have fun and play video games and romance sexy menz/womenz too, y'know.

And for the love of flip, the DA2 companions are not all bi. Isabela is the only openly bisexual character, the only one who says "I love women and men!" regardless of Hawke's gender / if Hawke pursues a romance. Everyone else has ambiguous sexuality.

Modifié par Sabariel, 19 septembre 2011 - 06:58 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

So... this sort of romance is badwrongfun why, exactly?

Because it detracts from the actual gameplay, that's why.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 19 septembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[Sunnie]

ToastPants wrote...

jreezy wrote...

ToastPants wrote...

I would really like to see some sort of demographic survey of this issue to find out how many of the people arguing against the s/s romance options are dudes.

Just sayin'. I wonder if it would be drawing the same ire if only F/F romances were on the table.

But maybe I'm just cynical.

I have no problem with them.

Oh I'm sure! I wan't so much inferring that a lot of guys have issues with it so much as the fact that a disproportionate amount of the people that DO have a problem with it seem to be guys. So many of the comments I've seen seem to be about people not wanting dudes to hit on their manshep, yet at the same time defending the Liara/femshep romance because she's "not technically female" or something silly like that.

Thats about it.. yep!

[Inquisitor Recon]

jlb524 wrote...
I was looking for your opinion on how these romances cheapen characters.

And everyone relates better with others that share their interests...however, you still have to share the world with those that don't.

Being made bisexual just for the sake of fan-service? It's rather self-evident how that cheapens the romances.

I haven't gone killing people and building a throne out of their skulls yet so I do a good enough job at sharing the world.

Everybody?  The small group of players that do these romances aren't 'everybody'...the majority of people that are apathetic and can easily deal with stuff aren't 'everybody'...your 'everybody' is a small group of people.

Yet it isn't all about the romances either, it's about the player's relationship to all of the characters on their team. Many people were pissed with the way DA2 did things.

Of course...now's the best time to put in that request.  That's just common sense.  I don't think you have a problem with the request, just the worry that BW might actually listen to it.

Of course. People make all sorts of foolish and silly requests on forums. Yet considering Bioware did such a foolish thing in DA2, I think I should be worried.

Because you don't throw fits over the addition of more of that type of 'poor writing' but only this type of 'poor writing'.

I beg to differ. In fact the Talimancers used to hate me with a passion.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Sabariel wrote...

And for the love of flip, the DA2 companions are not all bi. Isabela is the only openly bisexual character, the only one who says "I love women and men!" regardless of Hawke's gender / if Hawke pursues a romance. Everyone else has ambiguous sexuality.

"Ambiguous", hah! Give me a break: everyone is obviously Hawkesexual, just to accomodate the whiners.

[Darth Krytie]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So... this sort of romance is badwrongfun why, exactly?

Because it detracts from the actual gameplay, that's why.

How?

I really don't see how options you don't choose impact your gameplay at all.

[ElitePinecone]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So... this sort of romance is badwrongfun why, exactly?

Because it detracts from the actual gameplay, that's why.

That's a matter of perception and opinion, surely. 

Some people enjoy the character interaction more than the gameplay. 

More to the point: it's Bioware's perogative to decide what gets put in their game, not yours or mine. 

[Espurr]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...
See, that works both ways, and is just as valid for some other person as your version is for you.

So why should your version be adopted by Bioware? If they insist on giving the S/Sers some fan-service they ought to do what DA:O did rather than the nonsense DA2 introduced.

But, that is restrictive. A Ghey Warden only had one LI option (Leliana for females and Zevran for males). Not fair

So what? Homosexuals have less options in real life as well, comes with the territory.

Wow. Really? REALLY? That's your argument?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Sunnie22 wrote...
Because we are human, the same as you. The only difference between you and a gay person is your phobia of what someone else does in the bedroom. Stop being such a self entitled ass.

It's your group that has behaved like over-entitled, arrogant children for the longest time. Do what you want in your bedroom but you ought to keep it there rather than making this huge deal out of it and expecting everybody to become bisexual in a video game.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 19 septembre 2011 - 07:05 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Sunnie22 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
So what? Homosexuals have less options in real life as well, comes with the territory.

Kaiser's right. So why would you expect the same number of options, knowing that the devs only have so much time to work with and that the romances are a minor thing to begin with.

Because we are human, the same as you. The only difference between you and a gay person is your phobia of what someone else does in the bedroom. Stop being such a self entitled ass.

Ah yes, now we're homophobes again. I was starting to wonder when that happen again.

[Sunnie]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

And for the love of flip, the DA2 companions are not all bi. Isabela is the only openly bisexual character, the only one who says "I love women and men!" regardless of Hawke's gender / if Hawke pursues a romance. Everyone else has ambiguous sexuality.

"Ambiguous", hah! Give me a break: everyone is obviously Hawkesexual, just to accomodate the whiners.

Funny, seems like all the whiners these days are the anti-s/s people... imagine that!

[Xilizhra]

ReconTeam wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...
Because we are human, the same as you. The only difference between you and a gay person is your phobia of what someone else does in the bedroom. Stop being such a self entitled ass.

It's your group that has behaved like over-entitled, arrogant children for the longest time. Do what you want in your bedroom but you ought to keep it there rather than making this huge deal out of it and expecting stuff like this in a video game.

Actually, why don't you just play a video game marketed to a different demographic?

[ObserverStatus]

Sunnie22 wrote...
Because we are human, the same as you. The only difference between you and a gay person is your phobia of what someone else does in the bedroom. Stop being such a self entitled ass.

If you've never met a gay bigot,  you really need to get out more.

Modifié par bobobo878, 19 septembre 2011 - 07:06 .

[Sabariel]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

And for the love of flip, the DA2 companions are not all bi. Isabela is the only openly bisexual character, the only one who says "I love women and men!" regardless of Hawke's gender / if Hawke pursues a romance. Everyone else has ambiguous sexuality.

"Ambiguous", hah! Give me a break: everyone is obviously Hawkesexual, just to accomodate the whiners.

You didn't answer my other question :happy:

Er... Hawkesexual and bisexual are two different things, y'know. Make up yer bloody mind about what you're complaining about, yeah?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Xilizhra wrote...
Actually, why don't you just play a video game marketed to a different demographic?

Why don't you take your own advice and go play the Sims or some Japanese dating sim or whatever?

[Sunnie]

ReconTeam wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...
Because we are human, the same as you. The only difference between you and a gay person is your phobia of what someone else does in the bedroom. Stop being such a self entitled ass.

It's your group that has behaved like over-entitled, arrogant children for the longest time. Do what you want in your bedroom but you ought to keep it there rather than making this huge deal out of it and expecting stuff like this in a video game.

I have as much right to expect it in the game as you do expecting what you want. More self entitlement, I see.

[Darth Krytie]

ReconTeam wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...
Because we are human, the same as you. The only difference between you and a gay person is your phobia of what someone else does in the bedroom. Stop being such a self entitled ass.

It's your group that has behaved like over-entitled, arrogant children for the longest time. Do what you want in your bedroom but you ought to keep it there rather than making this huge deal out of it and expecting stuff like this in a video game.

I wonder how you'd feel if straight was the hated option. And being straight meant being in the closet. And everyone in games were gay except for like...THREE GAMES. And in those very few games, everyone told you to go away because they wanted no straight in any games at all because they were selfish ****s. I wonder. I doubt you'd be so sanguine about it.

[Comsky159]

I would oppose changing the orientations of existing characters, particularly ME2 initiated romance subplots because it would intrinsically throw a pie into the face of character consistency.

As for s/s applied to new characters I don't see how you could legitimately argue against its introduction, except of course in terms of ideology (which as the audience isn't our prerogative).